Solution to poverty - Socialism or Capitalism?

[sana8410]

Hey everyone. In today's developed world where we have glasses that can access the internet and robots that can think on their own, it is a shame that there are still people in parts of the world living under 1$ a day.
What can governments do to end poverty in their countries? Is a solution possible under capitalism? Or did Karl Marx had the right idea with his recommendation of a socialist government?

[TrillionBTC]

IMO it does not matter on the Socialism/Capitalism debate. A wise man once said the Poor will always be among us. Either way Government does not have the answers and I rather not give up my freedoms. Any society that gives people the freedoms and rights to choose their own fate is the way to go.

[LAMarcellus]

Governments can do nothing except exacerbate the problem, usually by equalizing the pain shared.

In a free economy, all economic actors can improve there lives thru serving other humans (work) and either saving or spending their just reward(money). Poor people will be around though, either because of unfortunate circumstances which are a part of life and can be mitigated in several LOCAL ways, or they choose to remain poor.

Central planning has never in human history worked to alleviate poverty, despite the siren call of its pseudo intellectual explanations.

Liberty and a free market are the supreme organizing principles under which the most humans are happy and wealth is maximally equitably distributed.

In the US we have highly controlled and regulated markets, gov enforced centrally planned price fixing abounds. It is a difficult environment for entrepreneurs to make sensible financial decisions in. Everyone is speculating. We have an Oligarchy and a Corporatocracy which force organizing upon us. Many Americans are suffering. 90 million not in the labor force, labor participation rate at 1968 levels, 50+ millions Americans on food stamps, this level of dependency I suggest is simply impossible to devolve to under a free market...   Tent cities, municipal bankrupcties, Military Industrial Complex thriving, hypocrisy from bureaucrats galore.

All enabled by the Federal Reserve Banking system and the corrupted counterfeited Federal Reserve Bank note. Money is the lifeblood of a complex economy. Money enables the division of labor and escape from barter. For the 3rd time in American History a central bank has been granted a monopoly, the government grew to be a leviathan, and the people suffered under a cancerous lecherous power-hungry government. Our money is corrupted by government awarded monopoly. We don't need bureaucrat provided "solution" to government caused problems. As we read in Road to Serfdom, no matter how well intentioned, central planners just cant account for all market forces and so thus can never provide as efficient a solution as the free market can.

Government is not logic and reason, it is force and coercion. Is that the guiding light we should follow to reach Utopia? Force and Coercion??

Edit:   The proper role of government is to protect private property rights, and the minority from the majority.

[neofelis]

Government can get out of the way.  Protect people's individual rights and then step back. Simple really.

[rafamadeira]

collaborative economy

[cbeast]

Intelligence solves problems. Politics makes problems. Try a government without politics and you will have an intelligent government that solves problems.

[zolace]

What still baffles me is that although many Governments has been giving away welfare aids to people below a certain income level, this does not help solve poverty at all.
Poor people can now fulfill their basic needs, but they have now become dependent on the Govt to give them the necessary resources for life. I think this is a gross misallocation of resources which could have been put to better use to create jobs instead of making poor people dependent.
It doesn't take a genius to figure out that this solution is only beneficial in the short run so why is it still being done?

[sana8410]

Intelligence solves problems. Politics makes problems. Try a government without politics and you will have an intelligent government that solves problems.

Also the corrupt politicians and the greedy ones are intelligent.........

[cbeast]

Poor people can now fulfill their basic needs, but they have now become dependent on the Govt to give them the necessary resources for life.

Not true. Most people I've known that were on welfare went on to become millionaires.

[umair127]

Capitalism can never solve the problem of poverty, it is in fact going to exaggerate it.. In this system it is the capitalist class which keeps growing as it makes profit at the expense of the working class.. It is actually the workers who create wealth and the masters take away a lion's share..

[zolace]

Poor people can now fulfill their basic needs, but they have now become dependent on the Govt to give them the necessary resources for life.

Not true. Most people I've known that were on welfare went on to become millionaires.

Are you saying that all the 108.6 million people that  received  welfare in 2013 are now millionaire?No!Probably 1% from that number become millionaire ,just like the people you know,the rest just wait every month the money from government to come .

[cbeast]

Poor people can now fulfill their basic needs, but they have now become dependent on the Govt to give them the necessary resources for life.

Not true. Most people I've known that were on welfare went on to become millionaires.

Are you saying that all the 108.6 million people that  received  welfare in 2013 are now millionaire?No!Probably 1% from that number become millionaire ,just like the people you know,the rest just wait every month the money from government to come .

No. Are you saying that all 108.6 million people that received welfare in 2013 are nothing but scammers?

[umair127]

Well, I think neither of capitalism or socialism can be ultimate solution to poverty.. Firstly, we need to expel the fact that poverty can be eradicated.. I guess poverty can never be removed..
People say that Capitalism emphasis on superiority, and thus creates inequality in the society.. True but then it is also inspires one to improve..
Which are today's greatest nations? US, China, France, England, Rome, Greece, and the list goes on and on.. And then these are not only the greatest nations, but they also have the wealthiest population also.. Is there anything common to them? Simply, Capitalism !!

[Trading]

If by socialism we are thinking on the nationalization of economic means of production and on the centralized planing of the economy, that didn't work well in the soviet block of countries or in china, or, it seems, anywhere else.

An economy is too complex to be central planed and people have less incentive when they are managing other people's goods/nationalized corporations.

It seems we have no alternative but a regulated capitalism with social support for the poor.

[zolace]

Poor people can now fulfill their basic needs, but they have now become dependent on the Govt to give them the necessary resources for life.

Not true. Most people I've known that were on welfare went on to become millionaires.

Are you saying that all the 108.6 million people that  received  welfare in 2013 are now millionaire?No!Probably 1% from that number become millionaire ,just like the people you know,the rest just wait every month the money from government to come .

No. Are you saying that all 108.6 million people that received welfare in 2013 are nothing but scammers?

No,of course they aren't all scammers. Welfare fraud is real and it  happens in every country. According to the U.S. Department of Labor statistics website, based on the 2012 IPIA three-Year average data report, fraud was prevalent in 2.67% of cases.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_fraud

[Este Nuno]

I don't think it's necessarily an or question. Theoretically you can have capitalism with socialist aspects where it makes sense and improved the quality of life for the population. It's not easy for a government to effectively implement programs that run well and are not wasteful but really it should be possible if a society was willing to put it's best minds to solving these problems.

[Trading]

Government can get out of the way ... Simple really.

That's what the data supports when countries are ranked according to their economic freedom index. It turns out that high economic freedom correlates with high rates of literacy, high education, low infant mortality, longer life expectancy, better access to clean water and sanitation, lower rates of HIV infection, a cleaner environment.

Details here:
http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2013/09/how-economic-freedom-promotes-better-health-care-education-and-environmental-quality

I think he wasn't talking about political freedom, but a kind of economic freedom similar to the liberal XIX century (Laissez-faire times). I doubt that kind of freedom would be helpful for social indicators. In many countries, it's the state that is responsible for those services.

Actually, Cuba is clearly lacking on economic and political freedom and for decades had the better ratings in Latin American on those issues.

Even today, the highest levels of political freedom are typical of developed economies, so that might explain better those results.

[cbeast]

Poor people can now fulfill their basic needs, but they have now become dependent on the Govt to give them the necessary resources for life.

Not true. Most people I've known that were on welfare went on to become millionaires.

Are you saying that all the 108.6 million people that  received  welfare in 2013 are now millionaire?No!Probably 1% from that number become millionaire ,just like the people you know,the rest just wait every month the money from government to come .

No. Are you saying that all 108.6 million people that received welfare in 2013 are nothing but scammers?

No,of course they aren't all scammers. Welfare fraud is real and it  happens in every country. According to the U.S. Department of Labor statistics website, based on the 2012 IPIA three-Year average data report, fraud was prevalent in 2.67% of cases.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_fraud

Interesting.

[bobos15]

The wörgl experiment

http://alt-money.tribe.net/thread/70e5eb29-853d-44ca-9faa-b789d1757037

Silvio Gesell

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvio_Gesell

[GreekBitcoin]

Well, I think neither of capitalism or socialism can be ultimate solution to poverty.. Firstly, we need to expel the fact that poverty can be eradicated.. I guess poverty can never be removed..
People say that Capitalism emphasis on superiority, and thus creates inequality in the society.. True but then it is also inspires one to improve..
Which are today's greatest nations? US, China, France, England, Rome, Greece, and the list goes on and on.. And then these are not only the greatest nations, but they also have the wealthiest population also.. Is there anything common to them? Simply, Capitalism !!

What the hell did i just read?! Greece is among greatest nations right now? Capitalism is bringing fascism in Greece right now in levels noone saw for like 70 years. People are working for 480 euro while having serious university degrees and know 2 foreign languages while their benefits and health system is getting chooped by the day. (Did you know that many work without pay just to get experience) But of course in Europe the media celebrate  the progress with 27% unemployment and doubling suicide rates.

Meanwhile the free market in greece gives state assets to billionaires for less than peanuts...

Noone is inspired to improve. 10% of Greeks have been inspired to go stab minorities, pick abortions over births, suicide, start doing drugs and leave the country. If this is what you mean improvement then okay. Ah and its not going to be something temporal. There are no plans for fixing this for the next 10 year at least...