How do we prevent money laundering and assasinations?

[kiba]

I see where the people that are afraid of a governmental shut down are coming from. If they can that is. Did Wikileaks go down? No, and yet it is a non profit group. What could they do to a whole economy then? Not to mention they'd have to track people down on Tor... or completely shut it down, which they still haven't done, given all the outstanding reasons for it.

The demonization on wikileaks didn't work on the internet population. Sure there's lot of hatred, but there's also lot of support for it too.

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[cypherdoc]

I think the point is, if the powers that be want to shut down bitcoin, they will find an excuse to shut down bitcoin. Doesn't matter how squeaky clean we are. What we want to do is give them incentive to participate in bitcoin rather then shut it down. Above all else, Republicans don't want to die poor.

What we need are lobbyists. Maybe make campaign contributions with bitcoins somehow. Give them a vested interest in the network.

I see where the people that are afraid of a governmental shut down are coming from. If they can that is. Did Wikileaks go down? No, and yet it is a non profit group. What could they do to a whole economy then? Not to mention they'd have to track people down on Tor... or completely shut it down, which they still haven't done, given all the outstanding reasons for it.

Wikileaks is a much more resilient entity than Bitcoin may be.  all they're doing is disseminating info.   as i see it, BTC is an entirely different matter.  the point is to try an create a functioning economy based on trusted tx's worldwide using BTC as a new currency.  how well is that gonna work if the Feds start shutting down every merchant good or bad b/c the currency, BTC, is getting a bad rap for being the ideal vehicle for assasinations or laundering? 

[marcus_of_augustus]

The feds could start shutting down BTC trading merchants .... in America ... the rest of the world will be free to do what they want.

All US will be doing is cutting off its nose to spite its face. I'm picking that when push comes to shove they will leave it alone because in the end cutting yourself off from possibly the next big thing in global finance is economic suicide.

They may be bent, crooked, power-crazed facists but they are not that stupid (are they) to know which side their bread is buttered ... that's why the big criminals are the biggest campaign contributors. It will just be a shifting of the order.

We should get a bounty started for campaign contributions, to Ron Paul, or similar.

[John Kirk]

We should get a bounty started for campaign contributions, to Ron Paul, or similar.

Another idea would be to get a bounty started to donate to any congressman that will publicly accept donations in bitcoin.

[Herodes]

I vote for getting business that trade narcotics off the merchant list.

We do not want to promote that kind of thing on the official forum. Those who absolutely want to seek out that stuff, will be able to find it anyway.

[error]

I vote for getting business that trade narcotics off the merchant list.

We do not want to promote that kind of thing on the official forum. Those who absolutely want to seek out that stuff, will be able to find it anyway.

Speak for yourself.

[marcus_of_augustus]

It was inevitable the preachy, intolerant mainstream would show up eventually I guess ... kind of sad never-the-less, they never fail to satisfy the stereotypes.

[goatpig]

I think the point is, if the powers that be want to shut down bitcoin, they will find an excuse to shut down bitcoin. Doesn't matter how squeaky clean we are. What we want to do is give them incentive to participate in bitcoin rather then shut it down. Above all else, Republicans don't want to die poor.

What we need are lobbyists. Maybe make campaign contributions with bitcoins somehow. Give them a vested interest in the network.

I see where the people that are afraid of a governmental shut down are coming from. If they can that is. Did Wikileaks go down? No, and yet it is a non profit group. What could they do to a whole economy then? Not to mention they'd have to track people down on Tor... or completely shut it down, which they still haven't done, given all the outstanding reasons for it.

Wikileaks is a much more resilient entity than Bitcoin may be.  all they're doing is disseminating info.   as i see it, BTC is an entirely different matter.  the point is to try an create a functioning economy based on trusted tx's worldwide using BTC as a new currency.  how well is that gonna work if the Feds start shutting down every merchant good or bad b/c the currency, BTC, is getting a bad rap for being the ideal vehicle for assasinations or laundering?  

First of all, Bitcoin doesn't need merchants to exist and flourish. Hell, you can't buy squat with gold yet it is a highly sought after store of value.

Second, Wikileaks is non profit and resisted quite a severe attack. I think a profitable p2p network would be much more resilient than a non profit, single entity fueling on donations.

[theymos]

I vote for getting business that trade narcotics off the merchant list.

We do not want to promote that kind of thing on the official forum. Those who absolutely want to seek out that stuff, will be able to find it anyway.

Illegal goods are not allowed on the official forum. bitcoin.it is not official.

[John Kirk]

It was inevitable the preachy, intolerant mainstream would show up eventually I guess ... kind of sad never-the-less, they never fail to satisfy the stereotypes.

That has got to be the first time I've been called "preachy".  If you think I am a member of the intolerant mainstream, then you have no idea what this community has in store for it when bitcoin actually does take off.

For the record, I am a libertarian.  I do understand the ideology that those businesses have a right to exist.

What I and the others have been promoting is the practical idea that a mainstream currency has to have a public image that is acceptable to the mainstream public.  Currently, bitcoin does not.  Although that has not played a factor in bitcoin's growth so far, it will eventually attract the attention of the powers-that-be.  Governments may not have the ability to shut down the entire bitcoin network, but they can prevent my local gas station or grocery store from accepting bitcoins.  Your ad hominem attack does not change that fact, and it is a problem this community needs to acknowledge.

[marcus_of_augustus]

Put your guns away son I wasn't talking to you.

[gusti]

It was inevitable the preachy, intolerant mainstream would show up eventually I guess ... kind of sad never-the-less, they never fail to satisfy the stereotypes.

That has got to be the first time I've been called "preachy".  If you think I am a member of the intolerant mainstream, then you have no idea what this community has in store for it when bitcoin actually does take off.

For the record, I am a libertarian.  I do understand the ideology that those businesses have a right to exist.

What I and the others have been promoting is the practical idea that a mainstream currency has to have a public image that is acceptable to the mainstream public.  Currently, bitcoin does not.  Although that has not played a factor in bitcoin's growth so far, it will eventually attract the attention of the powers-that-be.  Governments may not have the ability to shut down the entire bitcoin network, but they can prevent my local gas station or grocery store from accepting bitcoins.  Your ad hominem attack does not change that fact, and it is a problem this community needs to acknowledge.

I cannot think of a worse public image than the banks or paypal, and people use them everyday.
Eventually what will make bitcoin successful, is not it's public image, but it's usefulness.
Bitcoin is much more than useful, it's revolutionary.

Fed may ban it ? No worries, 100's of better evolutionary BTC like will appear.
 

[mcdett]

bottom line is that if the mathematics behind bitcoin are solid, then this will be around for a long time.

if govt shuts the most popular version of it down, a new one will spring again (different servers in a different country).

another bottom line is that we can't stop drugs or killings from occurring when people use btc for the exchange method.  if at the time of the transaction btc is the easiest way as a medium to transfer a promise, then they will be used, just as usd are used today to fuel the drug mafia wars of Mexico.

can we kill this thread now?

[gigabytecoin]

as a non hacker investor in BTC, i am tired of hearing laughing and joking about how drug dealers and gangs will most definitely use BTC to move money around the world to facilitate their illegal activities.  Hive 45 had 2 jokers laughing and joking about using BTC for assasinations.  i'm sorry, civilized ppl just don't talk like that.  if this becomes the case, BTC may be doomed in the long run to function as a new currency to replace the USD which is what i presume most of the ppl on this forum want.  i know i sure do and now i have an invested interest in making this so.  i would like to use this thread to develop ideas about how this activity might be prevented.  i don't want to hear comments about how it is inevitable, can't stop it, its gonna happen no matter what type comments that are often accompanied by a veneer of glee.  this is serious business and i have BTC to protect; so i'd like to hear productive ideas about how this can be accomplished.  if everyone believes its impossible then fine, i get an empty thread.

To prevent money laundering, all the government(s) must do is legalize and control all forms of business. Thus giving the "criminals" no money left to launder.

[Anonymous]

The first bitcoin exchange to be targeted by a government will cause a shitstorm of massive proportions. Unless they destroy the internet itself what can they really do but standby impotently as bitcoin eats their lunch ?

[eMansipater]

 If I saw an assassination market using Bitcoin, I think I'd contribute to that effort myself, though I know saying that won't win me any points here.

EDIT:  Just to be clear, I mean I'd contribute to the DOS effort against such a thing, not to the assassination market!

You get points from me.  There are a lot of extreme ideologies thrown around on the internet without regard to their practical application.  I'd sink a good ship to prevent it from being used for evil any day, and I think anyone who supports the freedom for assassination markets to exist "on principle" should be made to be present during the event--after spending an hour talking with the person before and then having to sit alone with them in a room after.  Then they have to explain their principles to the person's family.  And raise their kids.

[LightRider]

There will be no significant change in criminal or aberrant activity while we perpetuate a monetary system. When people are denied the necessities of life, and can only obtain them by engaging in a dishonest, abusive, wasteful and violent monetary system, then you get dishonest, abusive, wasteful and violent activity.

[LightRider]

There will be no significant change in criminal or aberrant activity while we perpetuate a monetary system. When people are denied the necessities of life, and can only obtain them by engaging in a dishonest, abusive, wasteful and violent monetary system, then you get dishonest, abusive, wasteful and violent activity.

No offense, but isn't that magical "halo" thinking?

No.

[marcus_of_augustus]

 If I saw an assassination market using Bitcoin, I think I'd contribute to that effort myself, though I know saying that won't win me any points here.

EDIT:  Just to be clear, I mean I'd contribute to the DOS effort against such a thing, not to the assassination market!

You get points from me.  There are a lot of extreme ideologies thrown around on the internet without regard to their practical application.  I'd sink a good ship to prevent it from being used for evil any day, and I think anyone who supports the freedom for assassination markets to exist "on principle" should be made to be present during the event--after spending an hour talking with the person before and then having to sit alone with them in a room after.  Then they have to explain their principles to the person's family.  And raise their kids.

What if the CIA put hit out on Ghaddafi in bitcoins?

Where would that leave all you holier than thous?

How did they pay to have Saddsam Hussein offed anyway, your taxes, in USD to hired guns most likely. FFS how sanctimonious are you going to get on us.

[Anonymous]

Maybe bitcoin is the final boss of the internet ?