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Author Topic: Mining rig extraordinaire - the Trenton BPX6806 18-slot PCIe backplane [PICS]  (Read 155822 times)
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April 29, 2012, 10:46:45 PM
 #401

The fan controller is coming along nicely. Would you prefer a certain variation of the arduino?
I think a nano would be perfect for this:


That would work well and be really compact if I desolder all the leads.
Or I could stick the whole thing in a pcb and grind off the extra length of the leads.

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April 29, 2012, 11:12:15 PM
 #402

The fan controller is coming along nicely. Would you prefer a certain variation of the arduino?
I think a nano would be perfect for this:
http://sumaoutlet.com/images/Electrical%20&%20Tools/SH460467.jpg

That would work well and be really compact if I desolder all the leads.
Whatever works, I'm not too fussed. I don't even know what the rest of the product line is like.

Is the plan for it to be manual control? Temp probe? Interface with cgminer? I don't really know what you have in mind actually, and I wasn't sure how crazy you were planning on getting with it.

Mining Rig Extraordinaire - the Trenton BPX6806 18-slot PCIe backplane [PICS] Dead project is dead, all hail the coming of the mighty ASIC!
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April 29, 2012, 11:16:06 PM
 #403

In other news, I just confirmed a suspicion that not all the slots may be useable. Fortunately, only one of the 18 slots won't work, not 2 like I had previously thought. This is because the slot nearest to the SHB doesn't actually connect to the 2 main fanout switches on the board - instead, it routes to the x4 connector that is adjacent to the host board, and that x4 connector is used for an optional extra daughtercard that attaches via another connector to the SHB. Even if I had that expansion card and could plug it into the current board, I'm not sure that the new board (arriving Tuesday) will have that expansion capability. So as of right now, 17 useable slots.

Additionally, I've been thinking harder about a rack formfactor, and how to achieve it. Basically, the 2 main constraints are a maximum case width of about 17 to 17.5 inches, and a maximum depth of about 27 to 28 inches. Vertical space in a "normal" system that uses this board is 4U (7 inches), but this system isn't normal.

If I aircool, I need 2 levels of GPUs, so rack height without PSUs is 6-7U. PSUs might be able to fit into the depth (they are about 12 inches deep), but the fans in them blow the wrong way, and the power cords would then be coming out the "front" of the rig, from a rack perspective, which is awkward. If standing up, they need 3U, but turning them on their sides buys me 1U of height.

If I watercool, then I need the depth for manifolds, hose, and other apparatus, so the PSUs would still have to stack, but all of it could probably be crammed into 6 or 7 total U. As much as I would love to have a package system, I doubt I could fit an appropriate radiator and pump into that space, so it would probably have to be external like DeathAndTaxes' setup. BTW, has anyone actually done any long term tests with more than 2 watercooled cards directly adjacent to each other without a second slot in between? The more I consider it, the more I am sure it would be prone to failure, unless they weren't linked directly to each other. If that were the case, I would have to use right angle connectors on each and every card, and that would get tedious, real fast.

Mining Rig Extraordinaire - the Trenton BPX6806 18-slot PCIe backplane [PICS] Dead project is dead, all hail the coming of the mighty ASIC!
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April 30, 2012, 12:46:34 AM
 #404

I actually have a nice sandwich going on with two 5870s(ek fcs5870v2)  I removed the mounting plates to get them as close together as possible. As you know 5870s have those stacked DVI connectors so they always take two slots but with even 5970s you can't really get them much closer to each other without having a really slim block(xspc) and some exotic sli/crossfire interconnects(Swiftech).

There hasn't been any problems yet. I do have zip ties to secure them together.

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April 30, 2012, 01:14:19 AM
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If I watercool, then I need the depth for manifolds, hose, and other apparatus, so the PSUs would still have to stack, but all of it could probably be crammed into 6 or 7 total U. As much as I would love to have a package system, I doubt I could fit an appropriate radiator and pump into that space, so it would probably have to be external like DeathAndTaxes' setup. BTW, has anyone actually done any long term tests with more than 2 watercooled cards directly adjacent to each other without a second slot in between? The more I consider it, the more I am sure it would be prone to failure, unless they weren't linked directly to each other. If that were the case, I would have to use right angle connectors on each and every card, and that would get tedious, real fast.
you can have gpus watercooled in adjacent slots, you would need these:
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/10744/ex-tub-669/Bitspower_SLI_Crossfire_Crystal_Link_Tube_Set_-_2_Slot_Spacing_BP-CLTAC-S2.html?tl=g30c101s873#blank
http://www.frozencpu.com/images/products/main/ex-tub-669.jpg
http://www.frozencpu.com/images/products/main/ex-tub-669_2.jpg
plus the fittings. all of these can be found here:
http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l3/g30/c101/s873/list/p1/Liquid_Cooling-Fittings-Accessories-SLI_Connectors-Page1.html

I know it says "sli" connectors, but in reality its just a piece of tubing with the appropriate adapter.

if you want a self contained water cooling pump, reservoir and radiator that is capable of being rack mounted take a look at:
http://koolance.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=0_28_42&product_id=1173
http://koolance.com/image/cache/data/products/erm-3k3ua_p2-700x700.jpg

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April 30, 2012, 01:22:02 AM
 #406

If I watercool, then I need the depth for manifolds, hose, and other apparatus, so the PSUs would still have to stack, but all of it could probably be crammed into 6 or 7 total U. As much as I would love to have a package system, I doubt I could fit an appropriate radiator and pump into that space, so it would probably have to be external like DeathAndTaxes' setup. BTW, has anyone actually done any long term tests with more than 2 watercooled cards directly adjacent to each other without a second slot in between? The more I consider it, the more I am sure it would be prone to failure, unless they weren't linked directly to each other. If that were the case, I would have to use right angle connectors on each and every card, and that would get tedious, real fast.
you can have gpus watercooled in adjacent slots, you would need these:
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/10744/ex-tub-669/Bitspower_SLI_Crossfire_Crystal_Link_Tube_Set_-_2_Slot_Spacing_BP-CLTAC-S2.html?tl=g30c101s873#blank
http://www.frozencpu.com/images/products/main/ex-tub-669.jpg
http://www.frozencpu.com/images/products/main/ex-tub-669_2.jpg
plus the fittings. all of these can be found here:
http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l3/g30/c101/s873/list/p1/Liquid_Cooling-Fittings-Accessories-SLI_Connectors-Page1.html

I know it says "sli" connectors, but in reality its just a piece of tubing with the appropriate adapter.

if you want a self contained water cooling pump, reservoir and radiator that is capable of being rack mounted take a look at:
http://koolance.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=0_28_42&product_id=1173
http://koolance.com/image/cache/data/products/erm-3k3ua_p2-700x700.jpg
Hey sweet, thanks, I'll look into that stuff.

Mining Rig Extraordinaire - the Trenton BPX6806 18-slot PCIe backplane [PICS] Dead project is dead, all hail the coming of the mighty ASIC!
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April 30, 2012, 02:08:18 AM
 #407

For the record those Bitspower SLI connectors are worthless.  The plastic deforms at about 85C.  I had a pump failure and the loop overheated.  System shutdown but every single of those SLI connectors deformed and leaked. Utterly utterly worthless.

For the record the Phobya SLI connectors are also junk.  Thin o-rings and loose tolerances means it is possible to shift them and cause a leak.

Koolance SLI connectors are solid but expensive.  
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/9342/koo-177/Koolance_Dual_VID_Connector_-_Adjustable_1_Slot_Spacing_CNT-VDA2_.html?tl=g30c101s873

Danger den makes some good ones (don't have a link though) but they have a floating middle connector which means 2 potential places to leak.

The best ones I have found are these:
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/15732/ex-tub-1252/Swiftech_G14_Male-Male_Lok-Seal_SLI_and_CrossFireX_Connector_Fitting_-_20_to_33mm_-_Chrome_G14-MMEXT-MEDIUM-CHR.html?tl=g30c101s873

I provided no context for these claims.  In the interest of keeping this thread on topic please see this post before providing a rebuttal.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=64450.msg875386#msg875386
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April 30, 2012, 02:22:40 AM
 #408

I agree with DT. Those Swiftechs are solid. The smallest clearance model sports 11mm spacing between mount points.

I have those Phobya connectors, but I don't see an issue with them unless you pull them too far apart. One failure point more though.
I think DT's setup has more pressure than average Joe's so he'd be better off with the sturdiest he can find. That silicone sealant wouldn't be bad idea either.  Tongue

Oh and that koolance thingy is rubbish. The price is ridiculous and it doesn't have even nearly enough cooling power for rjk's needs.

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April 30, 2012, 02:25:55 AM
 #409


Beware that Koolance contraption has an aluminum radiator.
 
You could mount 3 120mm wide radiators across the width of a rack.  Imagine a variation of one of my radiator stands (a three rad wide version) mounted in between the rails.




What's the total wattage that needs to be dissipated?







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April 30, 2012, 02:43:09 AM
 #410


Beware that Koolance contraption has an aluminum radiator.
  
You could mount 3 120mm wide radiators across the width of a rack.  Imagine a variation of one of my radiator stands (a three rad wide version) mounted in between the rails.

http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww153/Spotswood_/T-SlotRadStandwWCbits.jpg


What's the total wattage that needs to be dissipated?
Well, if I were to assume 300 watts per overclocked 5970 (not sure yet on 7990), x 17 slots == 5.1 KW of heat. I was looking at this rad from Grainger:



It's good for a little over 7KW, (10 horsepower) with forced cooling (8 HP with no forced air, they say). But it takes up 8U or so.

Mining Rig Extraordinaire - the Trenton BPX6806 18-slot PCIe backplane [PICS] Dead project is dead, all hail the coming of the mighty ASIC!
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April 30, 2012, 03:05:35 AM
 #411

That's weird D&T I never had any issues with the crystal link tubes from Bitspower.  The rig I have it on is my main one with crossfire 5870s oced 920 and no leaks thus far.

How much heat were you dissipating may I ask? Also was this under higher pressure than a mcp655?  I really don't want to have to break my system down to replace the xfire and northbridge connections. Sad

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April 30, 2012, 03:32:02 AM
 #412


Beware that Koolance contraption has an aluminum radiator.
 

The also have a copper version:
http://koolance.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=28_42&product_id=1172

and as for the crystal link tubing and fittings, I have personally never had any problems with them, but of course YMMV.

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April 30, 2012, 05:05:46 AM
 #413

That's weird D&T I never had any issues with the crystal link tubes from Bitspower.  The rig I have it on is my main one with crossfire 5870s oced 920 and no leaks thus far.

How much heat were you dissipating may I ask? Also was this under higher pressure than a mcp655?  I really don't want to have to break my system down to replace the xfire and northbridge connections. Sad

D&T had a pump failure which caused block temperatures to spike and deform the plastic. I had a similar temperature case where I had a leak empty the loop and cause cgminer to idle the GPUs when they hit 65C. This was with just 4 5970s in serial. Luckily I was using the Phobya links and didn't suffer any plastic deformation. I do agree, if you are in your rig, wiggling cards around you could cause a leak. I've had no leak issues though as I don't touch my watercooled rigs when they're running. That's just asking for a dead mobo.

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April 30, 2012, 05:10:03 AM
 #414

Whatever works, I'm not too fussed. I don't even know what the rest of the product line is like.

Is the plan for it to be manual control? Temp probe? Interface with cgminer? I don't really know what you have in mind actually, and I wasn't sure how crazy you were planning on getting with it.

Right now its manual control over serial. I think a probe would be a bad idea, and cgminer interfacing is something I haven't a clue how to do.

I have an arduino uno on hand so that's what you'll be getting if you have no preference.

You'll need to install the drivers for the emulated serial port over USB: http://arduino.cc/en/Guide/HomePage

If you have any requests for commands, let me know.
Right now I'm thinking something like <fangroup>,<speed in %> which would look like 1,77

I could also make some handy features such as the allowance to spin the fan at light speed, or even ludicrous speed, so the command would look like 1,lightspeed

Just keep in mind your connections need so be very solid when turning off the fans if you need to get in and tweak some hardware or something, because pwm 0 = 100%!

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April 30, 2012, 12:43:50 PM
 #415

Whatever works, I'm not too fussed. I don't even know what the rest of the product line is like.

Is the plan for it to be manual control? Temp probe? Interface with cgminer? I don't really know what you have in mind actually, and I wasn't sure how crazy you were planning on getting with it.

Right now its manual control over serial. I think a probe would be a bad idea, and cgminer interfacing is something I haven't a clue how to do.

I have an arduino uno on hand so that's what you'll be getting if you have no preference.

You'll need to install the drivers for the emulated serial port over USB: http://arduino.cc/en/Guide/HomePage

If you have any requests for commands, let me know.
Right now I'm thinking something like <fangroup>,<speed in %> which would look like 1,77

I could also make some handy features such as the allowance to spin the fan at light speed, or even ludicrous speed, so the command would look like 1,lightspeed

As long as it is controllable via some software mechanism having someone else right up a program which checks temps over cgminer API and issues changes to fan controller over the serial port.

Quote
Just keep in mind your connections need so be very solid when turning off the fans if you need to get in and tweak some hardware or something, because pwm 0 = 100%!

LOLZ.  Good safety tip.  I would imagine (hope) he is using safety grills.  Back in my hardware days I remember changing out the hot swap fans on IBM servers.  For some reason they had no safety grills not even cheap plastic ones.  I never lost a finger but it always scared the crap out of me.  The same server supported hot swap CPU and memory too but we never used those features.  No we shut down the server to change those out but who cares if a the tech loses a fan right? Smiley
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April 30, 2012, 01:00:46 PM
 #416

That's weird D&T I never had any issues with the crystal link tubes from Bitspower.  The rig I have it on is my main one with crossfire 5870s oced 920 and no leaks thus far.

How much heat were you dissipating may I ask? Also was this under higher pressure than a mcp655?  I really don't want to have to break my system down to replace the xfire and northbridge connections. Sad

D&T had a pump failure which caused block temperatures to spike and deform the plastic. I had a similar temperature case where I had a leak empty the loop and cause cgminer to idle the GPUs when they hit 65C. This was with just 4 5970s in serial. Luckily I was using the Phobya links and didn't suffer any plastic deformation. I do agree, if you are in your rig, wiggling cards around you could cause a leak. I've had no leak issues though as I don't touch my watercooled rigs when they're running. That's just asking for a dead mobo.

Yeah to avoid derailing the thread let me provide some context.

1) Pressure is a lot.
2) System is dissipating ~ 4KW of heat.

The bitspower crystal tubes worked fine for years in my water cooled workstation both before and after I started mining.  Also I have never had a problem with any of their other nozzles, compression fittings, clamps, etc).  When the pump "failed" it actually was still pumping but at a very low flow (guestimating <0.2 gpm)  this caused the temp in GPU block to rise.  The plastic "clear" part deformed at ~85C.   All of the links deformed but only one deformed enough to leak.  Luckily it was a "slow" leak and it only killed the motherboard.  If your rig never overheats then you likely will never have a problem.

I think Gomeler may be right on the phobya links.  I am using a high end aquarium pump (20ft+ of head @ 15gpm+) so that may have contributed to the leak.  I was connecting a GPU power connector and pressed down too "hard" (not that hard IMHO) on the card and it must have shifted the link just enough.  I got a spray yes a fraking spray of water.  When I let go of the card it stoppped.  There are not many more things scarier than seeing a spray of water shoot out inside your server. Smiley  Amazingly I suffered no damage.  When I am doing leak testing I take one sheet of a shop towel (paper) fold it into quarters and then roll it up.  Fits perfectly between two cards suspended below the link.  I usually leave that shop towel in for 3 days or so to check for any small leaks.  I was lucky and the towel absorbed the blast.  One of my rigs still uses the phobya links.  I am just super careful/paranoid around them. Smiley

After that I bought a set of the danger den links and koolance links to test.  Both worked and are still in use but by that time I found the Swiftech ones.  They are solid.  I ended up buying 3 sets for the last 3 rigs.  

So 6 rigs
0 set of Bitspower crystal links (trashed them all)
1 set of Phobya SLI links
1 set of Danger Den SLI links
1 set of Koolance SLI links
3 sets of new Switftech SLI links

The Danger Den links are very similar to the Phobyas but looking inside the o-rings are much larger providing a tighter seal.
The Koolance links are very good (likely the best SLI links) but at $15 a pop they are just highway robbery.

I like the swiftech ones even better because they are almost the same as the Koolance ones but they are designed to be tightened with a wrench, have a more industrial feel (function over form) and they are only $8 ea.



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April 30, 2012, 01:57:50 PM
 #417

Whatever works, I'm not too fussed. I don't even know what the rest of the product line is like.

Is the plan for it to be manual control? Temp probe? Interface with cgminer? I don't really know what you have in mind actually, and I wasn't sure how crazy you were planning on getting with it.

Right now its manual control over serial. I think a probe would be a bad idea, and cgminer interfacing is something I haven't a clue how to do.

I have an arduino uno on hand so that's what you'll be getting if you have no preference.

You'll need to install the drivers for the emulated serial port over USB: http://arduino.cc/en/Guide/HomePage

If you have any requests for commands, let me know.
Right now I'm thinking something like <fangroup>,<speed in %> which would look like 1,77

I could also make some handy features such as the allowance to spin the fan at light speed, or even ludicrous speed, so the command would look like 1,lightspeed

As long as it is controllable via some software mechanism having someone else right up a program which checks temps over cgminer API and issues changes to fan controller over the serial port.

Quote
Just keep in mind your connections need so be very solid when turning off the fans if you need to get in and tweak some hardware or something, because pwm 0 = 100%!

LOLZ.  Good safety tip.  I would imagine (hope) he is using safety grills.  Back in my hardware days I remember changing out the hot swap fans on IBM servers.  For some reason they had no safety grills not even cheap plastic ones.  I never lost a finger but it always scared the crap out of me.  The same server supported hot swap CPU and memory too but we never used those features.  No we shut down the server to change those out but who cares if a the tech loses a fan right? Smiley
Yeah I got some fan grilles on ebay. So who might be able to write up a cgminer API interface, and what would it cost me? Oh and I just remembered - If I have several VMs with their own instances of cgminer, then what happens? I guess I could run some software in another VM to gather the stats or something.

Also Garr255, if it isn't too hard, the only feature I need you to build in is an input for a potentiometer that controls them all in sync. This is so I don't go deaf when the OS isn't running. Either that, or when it doesn't have a serial signal, all fans go to 10 or 20%.

Mining Rig Extraordinaire - the Trenton BPX6806 18-slot PCIe backplane [PICS] Dead project is dead, all hail the coming of the mighty ASIC!
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April 30, 2012, 02:06:57 PM
 #418

Yeah I got some fan grilles on ebay. So who might be able to write up a cgminer API interface, and what would it cost me? Oh and I just remembered - If I have several VMs with their own instances of cgminer, then what happens? I guess I could run some software in another VM to gather the stats or something.

Yeah that seems to be the easiest.  Say you have 3 VM

VM1 - GPU 1-6
VM2 - GPU 7-12
VM3 - GPU 13-18

So you have the controller on VM1 (or maybe a dedicated VM4 to it remains functional even if VM1 crashes).

Wherever it is you have
a) the physical controller
b) the serial controller software
c) a custom program which pulls temp stats (over API) from all the GPU on all the VM and sends instructions to the fan controller

Since the API is simply JSON and works over the network inter-VM communication is trivial.  Much how ANUBIS pulls temp stats from multiple physical rigs over the network your controller would pull temp stats the same way.

As far as who?  Kano has experience with both serial communication and he wrote the cgminer API.  conman wrote the "auto-gpu" fan controller code in cgminer.  If they aren't interested it isn't that tough of a task.  Luckily people like me offering a bounty to add API to cgminer makes it easy to extend it by 3rd party programs. Smiley

How much? No idea but my guesstimate is it shouldn't take more than an hour or two to code.  I would say 10 BTC maybe more depending on functionality.  I would ask for it to be controlled by a config file.  The config file would need:

list of hosts to monitor and which fan group they belong to
desired temp
hysteresis
fan % increase increments
polling interval

It would be easiest if all the GPU in one host (VM) are part of one fan group.  If not you need to add a parameter which will map host/GPU to fan group.

So in high level psuedo code it would work something like.
Code:
Poll GPU temps of all GPU on all hosts by requesting device details over cgminer API
Determine max temp of each group.
If max temp > desired temp for a group then increase fan % by the specified increment.
Record current fan % for all groups.
Sleep for polling interval then start over.

Technically "b" above may not be needed (still good to have for manual control).  As long as the fan controller just accepts commands over serial the same program which monitors the GPU temps could send send the command over serial link.
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April 30, 2012, 06:59:23 PM
 #419

I should be able to do the pot fallback, I'll give you an update tonight.

I'll also make it so you can just send a percentage without a group, which will set all of the fans to that speed.
I'm also looking into reading the tach. I'm going to plan on shipping it Monday.

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1ngldh


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April 30, 2012, 07:27:55 PM
 #420

I should be able to do the pot fallback, I'll give you an update tonight.

I'll also make it so you can just send a percentage without a group, which will set all of the fans to that speed.
I'm also looking into reading the tach. I'm going to plan on shipping it Monday.

Sweet. How do you want to be paid? If you want BTC, I'll need to move some funds around.

Mining Rig Extraordinaire - the Trenton BPX6806 18-slot PCIe backplane [PICS] Dead project is dead, all hail the coming of the mighty ASIC!
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