[ANN] [FRAC] Fractalcoin | **Added to Cryptsy** | X11 | Slingshield | % fees

[devvienuis]

I suppose this one isn't around any longer either? :/

Devvie
twitter.com/devnullius

[runpaint]

what is the concensus here? It looks like the devs have abandoned the coin. If they are too busy to work on it, they should give ownership to another dev that can put in time to turn this coin around

Yes, sell:

<@earlz> yea, I'm not really working on FRAC anymore. Not enough time, and too many other projects
<CDarvin81> Ah ok whats the new project? Is it dead?
<@earlz> I'm not going to say it's dead. But the percentage based fees were less effective than I expected at least
<@SkunkMonkey> Sometimes shit just don't pan out
<CDarvin81> Hmm yes will look if i had time after SEPA then i could add some new. Or better let it be?
<@earlz> eh, I think the primary design is just flawed. percentage fees have too many infrastructure difficulties, difficult to properly enforce, and make a lot of legit transaction types expensive
<@earlz> If we make another coin in the future, we might do a swap, but yea. We're not expecting to work on fractalcoin anymore
<+Crat0sW0rk> lot of sell orders just went up
<@earlz> eh

Well they really tried, for 3 months.  I mean, Bitcoin was already huge, 3 months after it was released, so obviously if this coin didn't work out after 3 months then it wasn't worth any more time. 

Good thing the coin still works without devs.  I've been doing my part to get some of those limited 1 million coins, and if the coin needs programming that the devs won't do, we'll find some other programmers who will do it.

But someone is still hosting Fractalco.in, so I appreciate that and I would be glad to donate to help keep that going.

[runpaint]

Ok here's my peers.dat

http://www.mediafire.com/download/7zvdcxu614eoor6/peers.dat

I installed some new wallets and they couldn't find active connections, so I guess the DNS seeder is gone.

No matter, just use this peers.dat in your fractalcoin appdata folder and you should have active connections.

If you don't know how to do that, here is how:

On Windows 8, right-click the start button and select "Run"
(for Windows 7, left-click the start button and type "run" into "Search Programs and Files", then click Run at the top of the list)
In "Run", type %appdata% and press Enter
You should see the folder located at Appdata/Roaming
Open the Fractalcoin folder
Delete the peers.dat, or move it out of the folder
Drop my peers.dat into the folder
Start your wallet

[earlz]

what is the concensus here? It looks like the devs have abandoned the coin. If they are too busy to work on it, they should give ownership to another dev that can put in time to turn this coin around

Yes, sell:

<@earlz> yea, I'm not really working on FRAC anymore. Not enough time, and too many other projects
<CDarvin81> Ah ok whats the new project? Is it dead?
<@earlz> I'm not going to say it's dead. But the percentage based fees were less effective than I expected at least
<@SkunkMonkey> Sometimes shit just don't pan out
<CDarvin81> Hmm yes will look if i had time after SEPA then i could add some new. Or better let it be?
<@earlz> eh, I think the primary design is just flawed. percentage fees have too many infrastructure difficulties, difficult to properly enforce, and make a lot of legit transaction types expensive
<@earlz> If we make another coin in the future, we might do a swap, but yea. We're not expecting to work on fractalcoin anymore
<+Crat0sW0rk> lot of sell orders just went up
<@earlz> eh

Well they really tried, for 3 months.  I mean, Bitcoin was already huge, 3 months after it was released, so obviously if this coin didn't work out after 3 months then it wasn't worth any more time. 

Good thing the coin still works without devs.  I've been doing my part to get some of those limited 1 million coins, and if the coin needs programming that the devs won't do, we'll find some other programmers who will do it.

But someone is still hosting Fractalco.in, so I appreciate that and I would be glad to donate to help keep that going.

Sorry about the lack of nodes, I did have a few servers but it's been reduced to 1, earlz.net. I guess the fractalcoin daemon crashed or something and it stopped for some reason.. Either way, I brought it back up now so the wallet should sync automatically again.

Either way, there's some changes that were made on the master branch that haven't been put into an actual release. I just never got around to putting out a release. If anyone wants to take it over, I'd be more than happy to update the ANN thread to point to a community take over or whatever. I won't develop on this anymore though. I think the core premise of percentage based fees combined with Slingshield is fundamentally flawed. It's a good idea in theory, but it doesn't really work practically. It complicated the implementation of services as well and was generally unworkable for the plans I had for it.

I've been working on other stuff (code reviews, another unrelated coin, random other projects) and I have absolutely no time or motivation to do anything on Fractalcoin.

It was fun while it lasted, but it just didn't end up working out like I expected.

[runpaint]

what is the concensus here? It looks like the devs have abandoned the coin. If they are too busy to work on it, they should give ownership to another dev that can put in time to turn this coin around

Yes, sell:

<@earlz> yea, I'm not really working on FRAC anymore. Not enough time, and too many other projects
<CDarvin81> Ah ok whats the new project? Is it dead?
<@earlz> I'm not going to say it's dead. But the percentage based fees were less effective than I expected at least
<@SkunkMonkey> Sometimes shit just don't pan out
<CDarvin81> Hmm yes will look if i had time after SEPA then i could add some new. Or better let it be?
<@earlz> eh, I think the primary design is just flawed. percentage fees have too many infrastructure difficulties, difficult to properly enforce, and make a lot of legit transaction types expensive
<@earlz> If we make another coin in the future, we might do a swap, but yea. We're not expecting to work on fractalcoin anymore
<+Crat0sW0rk> lot of sell orders just went up
<@earlz> eh

Well they really tried, for 3 months.  I mean, Bitcoin was already huge, 3 months after it was released, so obviously if this coin didn't work out after 3 months then it wasn't worth any more time.  

Good thing the coin still works without devs.  I've been doing my part to get some of those limited 1 million coins, and if the coin needs programming that the devs won't do, we'll find some other programmers who will do it.

But someone is still hosting Fractalco.in, so I appreciate that and I would be glad to donate to help keep that going.

Sorry about the lack of nodes, I did have a few servers but it's been reduced to 1, earlz.net. I guess the fractalcoin daemon crashed or something and it stopped for some reason.. Either way, I brought it back up now so the wallet should sync automatically again.

Either way, there's some changes that were made on the master branch that haven't been put into an actual release. I just never got around to putting out a release. If anyone wants to take it over, I'd be more than happy to update the ANN thread to point to a community take over or whatever. I won't develop on this anymore though. I think the core premise of percentage based fees combined with Slingshield is fundamentally flawed. It's a good idea in theory, but it doesn't really work practically. It complicated the implementation of services as well and was generally unworkable for the plans I had for it.

I've been working on other stuff (code reviews, another unrelated coin, random other projects) and I have absolutely no time or motivation to do anything on Fractalcoin.

It was fun while it lasted, but it just didn't end up working out like I expected.

Thanks for replying.

Don't you think there's still a lot of promise in one of the few coins limited to a supply of 1 million?

What do you think is the major flaw - that nobody will mine after block rewards end?

[earlz]

Thanks for replying.

Don't you think there's still a lot of promise in one of the few coins limited to a supply of 1 million?

What do you think is the major flaw - that nobody will mine after block rewards end?

Just because the supply is low, doesn't mean it's worth anything. The major flaw is the core design of the coin: subsidizing mining with percentage based fees. It lead to people just keeping their coins on the exchange, complicated the implementation of any services using the coin, and because people avoided sending coins the average block reward is very little, leading to difficulty dropping dangerously low (ie, you could 51% attack it with $10 worth of rented hashpower at the time I basically gave up).

[runpaint]

Thanks for replying.

Don't you think there's still a lot of promise in one of the few coins limited to a supply of 1 million?

What do you think is the major flaw - that nobody will mine after block rewards end?

Just because the supply is low, doesn't mean it's worth anything. The major flaw is the core design of the coin: subsidizing mining with percentage based fees. It lead to people just keeping their coins on the exchange, complicated the implementation of any services using the coin, and because people avoided sending coins the average block reward is very little, leading to difficulty dropping dangerously low (ie, you could 51% attack it with $10 worth of rented hashpower at the time I basically gave up).

I was getting .01FRAC in tx fee about every 10 blocks, when the coin was almost dead and hadn't been mined by more than one person for over a month.  And the blocks are fast, so that's already comparable to mining rewards for Unobtanium.  And that's when hardly anybody was using the coin.

Watch the blocks.  Maybe 10 go by with no tx fee, or maybe it's several in a row:
http://fractalcoin.miningpoolhub.com/index.php?page=statistics&action=blocks


Do you realize your coin has been running flawlessly on autopilot for several months?  A lot of coins need constant supervision and still break anyway.  Your design was so good that it has continued functioning without you.

Do you realize that your coin is still traded everyday on Cryptsy and Poloniex, which is something most coins never achieve, and half the ones that did achieve it already got delisted?

Fractalcoin is already more successful than 90% of all altcoins that have ever been made, and it's not even a year old yet.  

Me, I'm excited to see what will happen when block rewards end and mining rewards are less than Unobtanium.  (Unobtanium is worth over $2.00 per coin right now, and rising)

People stopped mining, not because of transaction fees or Slingshield - they stopped mining because they had been getting 40 per block and suddenly only got 1 per block.
People kept their coins on exchanges, not because of transaction fees, but because they thought the coin would skyrocket in value when it was 40 times harder to mine.  And it will, it just needs at least 1/4 the time it took Bitcoin to skyrocket.

Besides, everybody sends transaction fees with Bitcoin anyway.  The wallet has a popup that asks you "Hey don't you want to send a transaction fee?"  Fractalcoin limits the fee to 2FRAC, and other than that it's half a percent.  People don't mind paying half a percent, they pay a lot more than that with credit cards, and they pay more than that to buy Bitcoin on Coinbase.  So what if Bitcoin has smaller transaction fees, if you have to pay 1% to get some bitcoins?

What's the difference between Fractal's mandatory transaction fees, and Ripple destroying a percentage of coins with every transaction?  And everybody's jerking off over how great Ripple is, so let them try some Fractal too.

Of course, maybe it could be fixed so it is actually the .5% it's supposed to be, instead of the 50% I get charged when I send 1FRAC from my wallet, or 2% when I send 100FRAC, or 300,000% when I send .00001FRAC

Sometimes the transaction fee is .49250995FRAC for any amount of 98 or lower, and it changes to 2FRAC if you send 99 or more.  Or then you go back and it's a 2FRAC fee to send 2FRAC.  So the problem isn't with the .5% fee, but maybe there's a little problem with the implementation.  Or maybe the wallet is crazy and makes up a different fee every time.

[runpaint]

This week somebody put 1BTC on Fractal at 1997 on Cryptsy.  .96BTC of that is still left, because other people are still buying for more than that, but he hasn't pulled his order yet.

So clearly the coin is worth something, and I think it will be worth a lot more in the near future.  It wouldn't hurt to have an active developer, so I will personally pay 5000FRAC if anyone wants the job.  earlz gets first refusal, as he is most qualified for the job along with the other original devs, and he would be free to sell me back that FRAC on Cryptsy, or sell it to that guy with the 1BTC buywall.  Or he could help the coin along its way to the moon, and that 5000FRAC might be worth a lot more. 

If earlz doesn't want it, somebody else please speak up.  If I have to learn how to do the coding myself, then I will have a lot more time and effort invested in this coin and none of you will be getting any of my FRAC for less than .1btc.

[runpaint]

Alright, is there anybody who ever wanted to develop a successful crypto project?  Well, we have one already, and the original developers don't want to work in crypto anymore.  Lucky for us, it's already listed on Poloniex and Cryptsy, it's been running with no problems for several months so the network is solid, and there's plenty of community interest in a coin limited to a total of 1 million. 

Let's face it, any project you could work on has a maximum of about 1% chance of ever becoming as successful as Fractalcoin already is.

I'm thinking we look at the wallet first and see if there's a problem calculating the advertised .5% transaction fees for smaller transactions.  The 2FRAC maximum fee seems to work fine.

And then we can talk about maybe tapering down the block rewards to .5 and then .25, if we want to extend POW a little longer.

[runpaint]

I have decided to enhance the community development bounty with the addition of this gift as payment -

A prized specimen of euphorbia tirucalli, or the Pencil Cactus Tree, from the private collection kept in my personal aboretum.

Any person who successfully applies for the position of lead community developer for Fractalcoin is entitled to this plant;  but also required to accept it.

[earlz]

What do you even want done with Fractalcoin? You said yourself it works as-is for months without any developer. That's on-purpose (a coin shouldn't really even require a developer unless network changes are required). The only thing not currently working in Fractalcoin as designed is the transaction fee implementation.

[runpaint]

Well, the other day I installed wallets on new computers, and they couldn't connect.  You came through fast with the DNS seeder, which fixed a critical problem.  If you hadn't, people could use the peers.dat I uploaded here - but only if they cared enough to look, and then happened to find this topic.  So it's good to have someone on top of things like that. 

But as long as fractalco.in stays up, and if the transaction fees were smoothed out, I don't see any other pressing issues that need attention at this time.

What else about the coin are you unhappy with, other than the relatively low participation?

Don't you think that's a cool plant?

[runpaint]

You'll always be the original developer - but if you had that plant, you would also be the community developer.  

[Winstrol]

You'll always be the original developer - but if you had that plant, you would also be the community developer.  

earlz is an asshole, as dogetime, skunkmonkey and staff...loosers 100%.

Now, the fact you are giving a plant to continue the coin, that was above ridiculous, what kind of drugs do you use?

HAHAHAHAHAH JESUS, THAT IS HILARIOUS!

[runpaint]

what kind of drugs do you use?

lol ok "winstrol"

The plant is not for smoking, any dev worthy of Fractal knows what's up

[runpaint]

The plant is growing every day, but still retaining its fundamental self-similar properties

[runpaint]

Look, this plant is getting more fractal every day, while at the same time remaining the same amount of fractal.  I might change my mind about giving it away. 

Does anybody want to talk about reducing the block reward to .1 and then halving it at regular intervals?

[BitcoinNational]

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/what-computers-dream-of-when-they-look-at-porn-nsfw?trk_source=popular

---------------------------

if going to fork, then leave at 1 and half in next 1000 blocks
again in 2000 blocks
again in 3000 blocks
again in 5000 blocks
again in 8000 blocks
again in 13000 blocks
again in 21000 blocks
etc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2rg7CeY1ek
-----

[runpaint]

if going to fork, then leave at 1 and half in next 1000 blocks
again in 2000 blocks
again in 3000 blocks
again in 5000 blocks
again in 8000 blocks
again in 13000 blocks
again in 21000 blocks
etc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2rg7CeY1ek

Good idea, because then the coin would actually be fractal and live up to the name.

[BitcoinNational]

;]