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[Litoshi]

But THEY DON'T HAVE A WEEK.  



I am confident they will get their money back from the "hacker".

Having lived in Asia for several years and another experience with the chinese in San Fran (see Norman Hsu on Wiki, pay special attention to Raymond Kwok Chow), I am intimately familiar with their methods of collection.  

[1715178661]

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[1715178661]

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[PilotofBTC]

This coin looks interesting however lack of promotion and any other activity is disappointing. I guess in the next few days it might go to the moon or crash completely.

It has been stated numerous times that marketing will start AFTER the coin has launched.

[xtester]

Here is the latest discussion regarding bter and the Nxt theft: https://nxtforum.org/news-and-announcements/three-solutions-proposed-by-bter-com-%28200btc-deal-or-310btc-bounty-or-fork%29/

[rtrtcrypto]

BTER is offering the hacker an additional 200 BTC to return the 45 million NXT. If that fails, we will never see that money again. I am not as confident as you are and don't think BTER is at all confident. Still, if I were the hacker I would take that - 310 BTC and no concerns about payback. Sounds like a win/win for him. The 50 million NXT will be a stone that he has to try to rid himself of, it won't be easy to make clean with it.

But THEY DON'T HAVE A WEEK.  



I am confident they will get their money back from the "hacker".

Having lived in Asia for several years and another experience with the chinese in San Fran (see Norman Hsu on Wiki, pay special attention to Raymond Kwok Chow), I am intimately familiar with their methods of collection.  

[PilotofBTC]

Why cant CRYPTI devs just demand the escrow from BTER and be done with them? Everyone in the community would vote in favor of that.

How do you know "everyone" would be?

I wouldn't be. I don't know the terms of the escrow, but the money shouldn't be released to the devs before main net is launched and there is a working Windows wallet at the minimum.

[Quantumtangles]

Why cant CRYPTI devs just demand the escrow from BTER and be done with them? Everyone in the community would vote in favor of that.

How do you know "everyone" would be?

I wouldn't be. I don't know the terms of the escrow, but the money shouldn't be released to the devs before main net is launched and there is a working Windows wallet at the minimum.

I would also vote against it. I have confidence in the devs and BTER to ensure a succesful launch. BTER will likely resolve the NXT issue. They are smart people. Chillax and enjoy the ride.

Edit: If they would release the hacker's IP address and timezone (and also confirm a 200 BTC bounty to serious minds to be paid on his arrest) that would give Jedi's here present something to do whilst they wait. I think it is a kid from the US (note his use of the expression 'already' meaning 'hurry up'). There is a 60% probability he is a white male in his 20s from an upper middle class Jewish American Family living in the suburbs. He probably worked alone and did it from home where he still lives with his oblivious parents. The expression 'already' is more commonly though not exclusively used by Jewish Americans. His parents are possibly academics. Profile end.

Edit: Note also his arrogance, iterating he had cleaned out their NXT account in moments. His profile fits someone who may be contributing to this and other forums and I accept he may be older (obsessive compulsive disorder personality), that his family emigated to America from elsewhere or he was educated at least in part in America, and that he may have used the expression 'already' to disguise his origins.

[rtrtcrypto]

I'm also hoping the bounty or 200 btc trade for stolen NXT will work.

I just don't agree that guys over at BTER are smart... they had 50 million NXT on a hot wallet with a simple password that was also being used for MOST of their other accounts. This is beyond absurd red flags. I don't see how we can go from that knowledge to "these are smart guys who know what they are doing".

I hope you are right btw. I want to see those NXT back in the hands of the people who should own them and I don't want NXT dumped into an ice age.

Why cant CRYPTI devs just demand the escrow from BTER and be done with them? Everyone in the community would vote in favor of that.

How do you know "everyone" would be?

I wouldn't be. I don't know the terms of the escrow, but the money shouldn't be released to the devs before main net is launched and there is a working Windows wallet at the minimum.

I would also vote against it. I have confidence in the devs and BTER to ensure a succesful launch. BTER will likely resolve the NXT issue. They are smart people. Chillax and enjoy the ride.

Edit: If they would release the hacker's IP address and timezone (and also confirm a 200 BTC bounty to serious minds to be paid on his arrest) that would give Jedi's here present something to do whilst they wait.

[bitcoinpaul]

BTER will likely resolve the NXT issue. They are smart people.

 

You know how the hack happened and what else occurred after that?

[rtrtcrypto]

I loved the attempt to get 1.7 million dollars back by offering the hacker 10 btc when it first went down. LOL.

BTER got greedy and thought they could have their cake and eat it too.

But it's ok, they are geniuses there... it's all good 

Anyway, enough on this issue. Devs here seem to have a plan in place for dealing with this situation - let's let them execute it.

BTER will likely resolve the NXT issue. They are smart people.

 

You know how the hack happened and what else occurred after that?

[Quantumtangles]

I loved the attempt to get 1.7 million dollars back by offering the hacker 10 btc when it first went down. LOL.

BTER got greedy and thought they could have their cake and eat it too.

But it's ok, they are geniuses there... it's all good  

Anyway, enough on this issue. Devs here seem to have a plan in place for dealing with this situation - let's let them execute it.

BTER will likely resolve the NXT issue. They are smart people.

 

You know how the hack happened and what else occurred after that?

I rely on what we have been told. Lin from BTER apparently failed to put in place two-factor authentication for a server. The hacker accessed via brute force password attack. That is what we know from what we have been told or can infer from what we have been told.

Edit: Smart people make mistakes too. The difference is that they rectify their errors and tend not to repeat them. I am thinking what everyone else may be thinking, but the proof of the pudding will be whether BTER sort it all out. If they do not, that may give some credence to the conspiracy theorists. However, if they sort it out, then BTER played no deliberate part in this.

[megashira1]

Wow, im just amazed at the amount of confidence people here have in BTER. I too am heavily invested in XCR and would lose alot if BTER ran. I however have factored this into my decision and am well aware that there is, in my opinion, A HIGH probability BTER runs.

Considering all the red flags already and the amount of money they have lost, it would be ridiculous to side in confidence with bter at this point. I hope all goes well but you guys are way overestimating an exchange that remains mostly anonymous out of china and will have no regulatory repercussions if they run away with everyone's money. With that being said I have much more confidence in the devs not running than the exchange at this point in time. Devs have proven to be competent and trustworthy. A few hickups here and there but minute compared to bter.. geesh.

I agree to wait on BTER but don't fool yourselves, there is high risk involved in this situation.

[Quantumtangles]

Wow, im just amazed at the amount of confidence people here have in BTER. I too am heavily invested in XCR and would lose alot if BTER ran. I however have factored this into my decision and am well aware that there is, in my opinion, A HIGH probability BTER runs.

Considering all the red flags already and the amount of money they have lost, it would be ridiculous to side in confidence with bter at this point. I hope all goes well but you guys are way overestimating an exchange that remains mostly anonymous out of china and will have no regulatory repercussions if they run away with everyone's money. With that being said I have much more confidence in the devs not running than the exchange at this point in time. Devs have proven to be competent and trustworthy. A few hickups here and there but minute compared to bter.. geesh.

I agree to wait on BTER but don't fool yourselves, there is high risk involved in this situation.

I accept there is risk. But dont put it as high as you do. There is one-Sigma p-value BTER will run based on current information. When it gets to 3-Sigma, (against the null hypothesis opposing the hypothesis the NXT heist will lead to a run on BTER) let me know. When I first found out about the NXT heist, I converted my XCR into BTC and fled. However the BTC withdrawal took about 4 hours, by which point I changed my mind. The trading opportunities were too interesting to miss. I put all my trading funds back on BTER and they are still here. Some nice trading has been possible. I consider it worth the risk. Who dares wins.

[Litoshi]

Look at the situation if you were the hacker.  You would have NXT that you cannot spend.  To deposit any of it in other exchanges would expose your identity.  The other exchange would then embargo the account and notify Bter.  The blockchain will also expose any transfer of the NXT.

Any purchase made with the stolen NXT would be traceable to the hacker as well.

He is stuck.  He can only stall for time and hope Bter pays.

Frankly, I dont think the hacker should be rewarded for his crime.  They should reset the blockchain and then offer a reward for his head, or fingers.

[rtrtcrypto]

This is ridiculous, we don't have anywhere near enough information for you to build a probabilistic model that means anything at this point.

All we know is that BTER could not secure 50 million NXT and is now close to insolvency - this they have stated on their own.

BTER mistakenly left a backdoor on NXT trading open for a few hrs and the price fell by 25%... imagine what will happen when they are forced to default on all NXT payments. Trust is eroded completely and a complete run on other currencies there is being averted only because there is:

a) hope that the NXT community will fork (THEY WILL NOT)
b) hope that the hacker takes the option of taking 300 btc for the return of funds (I hope he does)
c) hope that BTER might survive this (they will not barring a or b)
d) confusion still regarding how serious this is

Wow, im just amazed at the amount of confidence people here have in BTER. I too am heavily invested in XCR and would lose alot if BTER ran. I however have factored this into my decision and am well aware that there is, in my opinion, A HIGH probability BTER runs.

Considering all the red flags already and the amount of money they have lost, it would be ridiculous to side in confidence with bter at this point. I hope all goes well but you guys are way overestimating an exchange that remains mostly anonymous out of china and will have no regulatory repercussions if they run away with everyone's money. With that being said I have much more confidence in the devs not running than the exchange at this point in time. Devs have proven to be competent and trustworthy. A few hickups here and there but minute compared to bter.. geesh.

I agree to wait on BTER but don't fool yourselves, there is high risk involved in this situation.

I accept there is risk. But dont put it as high as you do. There is one-Sigma p-value BTER will run based on current information. When it gets to 3-Sigma, (against the null hypothesis opposing the hypothesis the NXT heist will lead to a run on BTER) let me know.

[megashira1]

Look at the situation if you were the hacker.  You would have NXT that you cannot spend.  To deposit any of it in other exchanges would expose your identity.  The other exchange would then embargo the account and notify Bter.  The blockchain will also expose any transfer of the NXT.

Any purchase made with the stolen NXT would be traceable to the hacker as well.

He is stuck.  He can only stall for time and hope Bter pays.

Frankly, I dont think the hacker should be rewarded for his crime.  They should reset the blockchain and then offer a reward for his head, or fingers.

and what about mgw?

[GreXX]

We are working on a solution to secure out BTC with BTER. BTER did not want to break the terms of the escrow they signed with users and we are working on a solution.

We also have all of the data from BTER in regards to who holds how much XCR. If for some reason they do collapse, we would come up with a solution to distribute ourselves.

All of this should be avoided however as I believe we are on good terms and have a good understanding right now with BTER. At this point, they need to launch Crypti to help build back up their reputation and show they aren't going anywhere.

Having said all of that, I won't blame anyone who pulls out of BTER the second the withdraw button goes live.

[samsmith16]

We are working on a solution to secure out BTC with BTER. BTER did not want to break the terms of the escrow they signed with users and we are working on a solution.

We also have all of the data from BTER in regards to who holds how much XCR. If for some reason they do collapse, we would come up with a solution to distribute ourselves.

All of this should be avoided however as I believe we are on good terms and have a good understanding right now with BTER. At this point, they need to launch Crypti to help build back up their reputation and show they aren't going anywhere.

Having said all of that, I won't blame anyone who pulls out of BTER the second the withdraw button goes live.

Great was going to suggest a Back-up point of Bter XCR holdings... Using Bter account number and exact amount of XRC that was in the account at that Back-up point for verification of ownership...

Bter account number + XCR total = XCR transfer (by Crypti Dev) to holder....

What Time stamp do you have on the Bter account holdings? What time zone? so we can all go on right now and check for the verification process...  


Edit: I also had a thought that... not sure what account info Bter gives you but if they give you Bter account number + Bter username... That should be enough to prove ownership... We just can't only use Bter account number like the ledger... bc ppl could just guess at an account number and then claim the XCR..

[Quantumtangles]

you guys are way overestimating an exchange that remains mostly anonymous out of china and will have no regulatory repercussions if they run away with everyone's money.

Strictly, BTER is the trading name of Maxcloud Incorporated, which so far as I know is a company registered with the Register of Companies in the British Virgin Islands (that is, it is a company under the jurisdiction of the (British) Crown in the right of the Government of the BVI). The BVI is a British Territory and English law applies, resulting in final appeals being heard by the Privy Council in London.

Bearer shares in BVI companies came to an end in 2010. Most likely, there is a trust structure in place whereby the BVI company merely holds shares in further corporate entities which in turn own interests in the BTER exchange. It is possible to secure International Freezing Injunctions in the High Court of the British Virgin Islands and to enforce those Freezing Injunctions in other EC states (including Switzerland) pursuant to the Brussels & Lugano Convention. In other words, the trust structure in the BVI could be frozen on an ex parte basis (without notice first being provided to the directors or shareholders of the BVI trust entity).

As bearer shares are extremely unlikely (having been redundant in the BVI since December 2010), the structure may be relatively transparent in comparison with complex Cayman Island/BVI/Liechtenstein smorgasbords.

No SPA (sale purchase agreement) of the BVI company would be possible in the absence of Certificates of Good Standing from the Registrar of Companies in the BVI. In other words, BTER will probably resolve the NXT fiasco due to the fact they could easily be targeted by litigators if for any reason they fail to do so.

If they did pull a stunt, the BVI trustee likely to be running their company for them would have to face the music as well. But I do not think BTER intend to dp anything other than honour their comittments. They are a major Crypto exchange and have a good international reputation. However, you should make your own minds up and decide what levels of risk you are prepared to take. Without risk, reward is often minimal. With high risk, reward can be greater. Dont let other people do your thinking for you.

All in all, there is some risk but it is perhaps not as high as some others maintain. I am fairly chillaxed about it all and for the avoidance of doubt I am fully invested on BTER and in XCR. Who dares wins. Enjoy the trading opportunities when the wallet goes live, is how I see it.

[Litoshi]

We are working on a solution to secure out BTC with BTER. BTER did not want to break the terms of the escrow they signed with users and we are working on a solution.

We also have all of the data from BTER in regards to who holds how much XCR. If for some reason they do collapse, we would come up with a solution to distribute ourselves.

All of this should be avoided however as I believe we are on good terms and have a good understanding right now with BTER. At this point, they need to launch Crypti to help build back up their reputation and show they aren't going anywhere.

Having said all of that, I won't blame anyone who pulls out of BTER the second the withdraw button goes live.

You have a list of XCR holders?  What is the key for listing each owner, as we dont have XCR wallets yet.  Does it list by Bter account number?  If that is the case, every one needs to copy down their account number.  If Bter goes dark, that may be lost.

[GreXX]

Why cant CRYPTI devs just demand the escrow from BTER and be done with them? Everyone in the community would vote in favor of that.

How do you know "everyone" would be?

I wouldn't be. I don't know the terms of the escrow, but the money shouldn't be released to the devs before main net is launched and there is a working Windows wallet at the minimum.

The dilemma is that we have a working main net and could launch it, but we can't distribute it without BTER. BTER could stop the launch by never initiating distribution causing us to never have a working main net, and therefore keep the funds from us.