ANN: BITMAIN has Tested Its 28nm Bitcoin Mining Chip BM1382

[Biodom]

They pushed back their shipping date of the S2's after people ordered

what do you mean-it is still June 26, isn't it?

When I and several others ordered, the ship date was June 23rd

I see...thanks

[tripppn]

They pushed back their shipping date of the S2's after people ordered

what do you mean-it is still June 26, isn't it?

When I and several others ordered, the ship date was June 23rd

Still one of the least impacting delays of any manufacturer.
If BFL had only been delayed by 3 days they might not get a Z- score, but no... more like 3 quarters late  lol.

It might be that the people ordering now are buying the second half of that batch or something giving them a few more days to assemble them.

[Biodom]

I think that miners have to focus like a laser on what's the most important-highest ROI and drive manufacturers to provide one through the power of our purse (don't get on on sucky deals). If it is a hobby (and I respect this very much), then every new hardware is exciting as well.

[ernie-]

I think that miners has to focus like a laser on what's the most important-highest ROI and drive manufacturers to provide one through the power of our purse (don't get on on sucky deals). If it is a hobby (and I respect this very much), then every new hardware is exciting as well.

The focus is certainly not on the highest ROI,  typically there will be a claim about some marvelous power efficiency, then the bottom line will be the miner still draws several hundred watts. Overclocking is FOTM not underclocking, and that's whats driving up the difficulty spoiling it for all. The first thing I want to know about the S3 is can you get a good underclock happening like you could with the S1 and the pencil mod? 0.75v VDD core strikes me as a bit high. ASICminer are talking 0.55v with their 40nm offering.

[philipma1957]

I think that miners has to focus like a laser on what's the most important-highest ROI and drive manufacturers to provide one through the power of our purse (don't get on on sucky deals). If it is a hobby (and I respect this very much), then every new hardware is exciting as well.

The focus is certainly not on the highest ROI,  typically there will be a claim about some marvelous power efficiency, then the bottom line will be the miner still draws several hundred watts. Overclocking is FOTM not underclocking, and that's whats driving up the difficulty spoiling it for all. The first thing I want to know about the S3 is can you get a good underclock happening like you could with the S1 and the pencil mod? 0.75v VDD core strikes me as a bit high. ASICminer are talking 0.55v with their 40nm offering.

yeah this gear if it comes at .8 watts at the plug for 500gh is nice .  but if I can down clock to 400gh and pull 240 or 200 watts it is every bit as good as the s-1 is.

I have made my mind up to not buy it at the first offering. I have 3 s-1's doing 420gh and 560watts   on underclock/under volt pencil mods  I think I am waiting for the kits.  Now if antminer contacts me and offers me some special deal /discount/ coupon code I may buy it.

 Diff has shown it will explode so I am thinking two  25% jumps are coming.  I am not sure I want to buy into the teeth of that.  I can sit back and wait to see if btc goes up to 700 or  800 usd.

[arorts]

I think that miners has to focus like a laser on what's the most important-highest ROI and drive manufacturers to provide one through the power of our purse (don't get on on sucky deals). If it is a hobby (and I respect this very much), then every new hardware is exciting as well.

The focus is certainly not on the highest ROI,  typically there will be a claim about some marvelous power efficiency, then the bottom line will be the miner still draws several hundred watts. Overclocking is FOTM not underclocking, and that's whats driving up the difficulty spoiling it for all. The first thing I want to know about the S3 is can you get a good underclock happening like you could with the S1 and the pencil mod? 0.75v VDD core strikes me as a bit high. ASICminer are talking 0.55v with their 40nm offering.

 

yeah this gear if it comes at .8 watts at the plug for 500gh is nice .  but if I can down clock to 400gh and pull 240 or 200 watts it is every bit as good as the s-1 is.

I have made my mind up to not buy it at the first offering. I have 3 s-1's doing 420gh and 560watts   on underclock/under volt pencil mods  I think I am waiting for the kits.  Now if antminer contacts me and offers me some special deal /discount/ coupon code I may buy it.

 Diff has shown it will explode so I am thinking two  25% jumps are coming.  I am not sure I want to buy into the teeth of that.  I can sit back and wait to see if btc goes up to 700 or  800 usd.

I'm also a bit afraid of the massive 20+% diff jump plus government auctioning 30,000 BTC. For some reason it doesn't feel like the right moment to get in.

[64dimensions]

While I hope the S3 pricing is low, I also hope that I have PMa's discipline if the initial price is too high. The fundamental problem for the home miner is that some fraction of the buying population is throwing money at equipment. I think the price of the S3 in China will be lower because miners there will be more hard nosed about the way they spend money. This is in contrast to purchasers who have bet on the come by funding huge preorders and also haven't quite gotten their arms around what's involved in breaking even.

The fact the existing, new and coming on line mining companies are thinking they can sell $1.5 - $2.0 per Gh/s all day is further evidence that some western purchasers of mining equipment have already demonstrated so far that they have more money than sense.

If BITMAIN comes in with a low price, this will indicate that he is thinking long term.

[ernie-]

While I hope the S3 pricing is low, I also hope that I have PMa's discipline if the initial price is too high. The fundamental problem for the home miner is that some fraction of the buying population is throwing money at equipment. I think the price of the S3 in China will be lower because miners there will be more hard nosed about the way they spend money. This is in contrast to purchasers who have bet on the come by funding huge preorders and also haven't quite gotten their arms around what's involved in breaking even.

The fact the existing, new and coming on line mining companies are thinking they can sell $1.5 - $2.0 per Gh/s all day is further evidence that some western purchasers of mining equipment have already demonstrated so far that they have more money than sense.

If BITMAIN comes in with a low price, this will indicate that he is thinking long term.

The pricing will be in BTC not $ per GH/s. so when you do your ROI calculation it's best to only think in terms of BTC.

[whonesta]

While I hope the S3 pricing is low, I also hope that I have PMa's discipline if the initial price is too high. The fundamental problem for the home miner is that some fraction of the buying population is throwing money at equipment. I think the price of the S3 in China will be lower because miners there will be more hard nosed about the way they spend money. This is in contrast to purchasers who have bet on the come by funding huge preorders and also haven't quite gotten their arms around what's involved in breaking even.

The fact the existing, new and coming on line mining companies are thinking they can sell $1.5 - $2.0 per Gh/s all day is further evidence that some western purchasers of mining equipment have already demonstrated so far that they have more money than sense.

If BITMAIN comes in with a low price, this will indicate that he is thinking long term.

The pricing will be in BTC not $ per GH/s. so when you do your ROI calculation it's best to only think in terms of BTC.

I think about ROI always in BTC. Fact is if you spend fiat for HW you could have done the same for BTC, so on that day I figure the "BTC cost". I have found many people are happy IF they can figure a return equal to their fiat investment, this is always based on a JUMP in BTC value and seems to be the short term outlook. The "bet" I make on HW is that I can operate it well enough to earn more BTC then I could have bought and pay the "bills" related to mining. $1.5-$2.0 per GH/s does not allow that.

So if utilization of the BTC network is not increased and we are going to continue to see countless TH thrown @ largely empty blocks then the value of a GH is sure to collapse. IF manufacturers hope to be able to afford to make a miner the masses can afford to operate then I would say the manufacturers should invest some of their profits into expanding utilization, else prepare to sell to a handful of megafarms and let them crush your pricing structure.

Either way this gold rush has come to an end, if you want to survive the long cold winter you better spend wisely.

[sergio]

Bitmain has the opportunity of a lifetime in become the number one hardware vendor if they do things right with the S3.

As of now we have a lot of crooks running large mining data centers such an KNC, we need to decentralized that as much as possible, we need for mining to be available for the average person, that will eventually happen like it used to be, but now the ball is with Bitmain, if the play the cards right or wrong.

I see 2 cases:

case 1:
This is the most likely case which is not bad, but ti is not really that good. Bitmain releases S3 miner and it is priced so that it barely ROIs, then the difficulty goes up by 30%, and then price is reduced by 30% so that it barely ROIs again, and this process is repeated several times, everyone is happy, but nothing special happens, with this approach profit per S3 is maximized, but sales are ok, but bitcoin mining keeps centralized hurting everyone in the long run.


case 2:
Independent of ROI, lets say they decide to sell the S3 for a 5% or even 10% profit over the hardware cost and sell from stock, immediately S3 would sell out, probably S3 would sell out as fast as they can be produced, and this cycle would be repeated several times before  there comes a time in which they do not sell out immediately.
Bitmain could limit orders to 1, and just have a massive amount of orders, this would greatly help with decentralization of mining.
What could be accomplished is to decentralize mining, Bitmain would become the biggest hardware vendor,  it would help preserve a decentralized bitcoin economy, Bitmains profit would be much higher than in case 1 since the sales would be a lot bigger.
The limit of 1 per order would be critical for the decentralization, otherwise companies like BFL, Avalon, and KNC could buy huge amounts of S3 screwing us over again.

That is my opinion, now Bitmain probably has the chance of a lifetime to help to decentralized the bitcoin mining, and it creates a win-win situation for most of us including Bitmain, but I am afraid it will not happen since they will prefer to maximize the profit per unit, instead of maximizing the overall profit by having huge sales.
 
 With case 2 not only we help to decentralize mining, we all make more profits on the long term, including Bitmain, since otherwise a large part of those profits are taken by the large mining companies like BFL, Avalon, KNC, and many others, the only losers in case 2 are the large mining companies.

I would strongly recommend for Bitmain to consider case 2 as a case to study, I think it would help us all.
The only limitation in case 2 would be how fast Bitmain can produce the miners.

[philipma1957]

While I hope the S3 pricing is low, I also hope that I have PMa's discipline if the initial price is too high. The fundamental problem for the home miner is that some fraction of the buying population is throwing money at equipment. I think the price of the S3 in China will be lower because miners there will be more hard nosed about the way they spend money. This is in contrast to purchasers who have bet on the come by funding huge preorders and also haven't quite gotten their arms around what's involved in breaking even.

The fact the existing, new and coming on line mining companies are thinking they can sell $1.5 - $2.0 per Gh/s all day is further evidence that some western purchasers of mining equipment have already demonstrated so far that they have more money than sense.

If BITMAIN comes in with a low price, this will indicate that he is thinking long term.

The pricing will be in BTC not $ per GH/s. so when you do your ROI calculation it's best to only think in terms of BTC.

   I can get instant  btc from coinbase  ..

   I never think fiat I never think btc ..


 I think btc/fiat relationships>    right now     buying gridseed blades for 500usd  can be done……..  

with a paypal account from a usa company.

  That is pretty good deal   so a lot of complex thought  must be done   when I compare it to   An s-3 or an rx-box.

    15 or 20 factors need to be considered.

  For now any piece of gear that is bigger then  a gridseed blade an s-3 or an rk-box is a no go  for in house  .

watts used   the 480 watts max of the rk-box is my limit.

the gears reliability huge factor.

will I get the gear (I have been BFL'd)  huge factor.

can the gear be run by weaker skilled miners.  factor.

how long can I mine it before it   uses too much power per hash.  factor.  

right now gridseed blades may still make more then power in 2015.  I see that less possible for any btc gear on the market.

will it sell on ebay factor.

 Must I pay in btc factor   I never buy any gear that costs more then 600 usd  in btc  since usa   tax laws are more difficult for someone in business of btc when you transfer more then 600 usd of btc.


I wont buy and have shipped any big piece of gear.. I would have it  hosted   but so far only one guy hosts and lets me use paypal  

( Thanks pcfli )  he hosts a 1th dragon miner for me in china.  I asked a few others and got nos must be btc or bank transfer .  

 So I never got any big miners like a sp10 or an sp30 or the s-2  for hosting and for in house.


So I wait for the price here like all others.

With all That said my I want to play with the gear soul  will force me to own one of these and one rk-box in house.

[Und3rd0g]

 

I'm also a bit afraid of the massive 20+% diff jump plus government auctioning 30,000 BTC. For some reason it doesn't feel like the right moment to get in.

Agreed 100%.  Gonna be a crazy time for mining the next few months!  1 TH get's you .037 per day today.  After the next difficulty adjustment, I cannot imagine what that will fall to!  

Best of luck to all!

[ernie-]

I'm also a bit afraid of the massive 20+% diff jump plus government auctioning 30,000 BTC. For some reason it doesn't feel like the right moment to get in.

Agreed 100%.  Gonna be a crazy time for mining the next few months!  1 TH get's you .037 per day today.  After the next difficulty adjustment, I cannot imagine what that will fall to!  

Best of luck to all!

30,000 BTC isn't much, eg okcoin traded over 57,000 in the past 24hours, also the auction is hardly going to be a dump.


The return on mining will reduce until it's negative for all those who overclock or have expensive electricity. To make an S3 pay for itself, it would need to be priced around 0.75BTC or less. That's going by the mining calc on https://tradeblock.com/mining/

[R4v37]

I'm also a bit afraid of the massive 20+% diff jump plus government auctioning 30,000 BTC. For some reason it doesn't feel like the right moment to get in.

Agreed 100%.  Gonna be a crazy time for mining the next few months!  1 TH get's you .037 per day today.  After the next difficulty adjustment, I cannot imagine what that will fall to!  

Best of luck to all!

just my opinion...
if they put S3 below BTC1
then what'll happen with the S2 buyers?
well, i think bitmain will adjust the price above BTC1
about ROI, if u want ROI in the short time (1month? 2month?), well, u'll richer than bitmain
if i'm Bitmain, the hell i care about ur ROI, its about risk, afford what u can lose
big profit always followed by big risk

if in the end u cant ROI, re u going to blame Bitmain too? nah they're not ur friends who'll make u rich bro...
the damn they care 

[ernie-]

just my opinion...
if they put S3 below BTC1
then what'll happen with the S2 buyers?
well, i think bitmain will adjust the price above BTC1
about ROI, if u want ROI in the short time (1month? 2month?), well, u'll richer than bitmain
if i'm Bitmain, the hell i care about ur ROI, its about risk, afford what u can lose
big profit always followed by big risk

if in the end u cant ROI, re u going to blame Bitmain too? nah they're not ur friends who'll make u rich bro...
the damn they care 

S2 is a lot of hardware, 10 blades and a PSU I would expect it to cost way more than a couple of S3s. 5 x S1 was also a lot cheaper than an S2.

[rograz]

Are there any photos or layouts of the upgrade kits for the S1/S2, is it true the S2 could be upgraded to do 2Th/s?

That's the theory right now, but nothing has been released, AFAIK, other than the drawing in the OP.

I don't think S2 upgrades are that high on their priority list tbh, will be a month or two before they bother offering upgrades for them, simply doesn't make sense to upgrade the S2s yet.

[allcoinminer]

IMO, their S2 was a failure(not the miner) due to many factors.

[tripppn]

IMO, their S2 was a failure due to many factors.

It was a good idea and not a bad miner at all but it came too late in the game and the dragon was always just a little bit cheaper.  Keep in mind I never had one so I don't know if there were issues with it or not.

Kinda seems like it may have been one last money grab with the old chips.  Certainly can't blame Bitmain for that.  They have to squeeze every drop of profit out of those chips with the amount they spend in r&d.

[nickgaff]

would you still buy an s1 today for $250?

[arorts]

 Bitmain miners are one of the most stable and reliable miners, I've had. Very hard to top.