ANN: BITMAIN has Tested Its 28nm Bitcoin Mining Chip BM1382

[s1gs3gv]

The buy and sell on ebay is valid and ethical.

Well, I don't want to go too far off-topic and start arguing with you about all the opportunistic thugs operating some of the larger on-line markets and payment services, but if you are selling equipment to people for more money than you know it can mine then you are taking advantage of them. I'm sure there are exceptions amongst people who have free electricity. With respect to use of S1 and S3 machines as heaters, its an interesting idea but the case for their deployment really depends on an explosion of BTC/fiat exchange rates that may or may not occur. That is a subject which is probably topic-worthy but in a different thread.

I disagree. Ebay is a reasonable way to judge a paypal-priced value for things, and for people who have no BTC and have no way to easily get BTC paying a 10%+ premium via ebay/paypal is not terrible.

and even if the equipment stops being profitable in 5 months with a $600/BTC, if prices jump to $1000 you can suddenly get another 2 months use and quite likely make a profit. You need to look at the value of the mining equipment both in terms of current market conditions as well as how the market may be in 6 months from now, or a year form now.

If BTC went up to $2000 during July, even the 7w/GH BFL equipment would start coming back online again and making small profits

Well sure. But if the seller thought this was likely to happen it is unlikely they'd be selling their equipment on ebay.

The world is full of people who think it is ok to exploit other people for a profit. Its no different here.

[philipma1957]

The buy and sell on ebay is valid and ethical.

Well, I don't want to go too far off-topic and start arguing with you about all the opportunistic thugs operating some of the larger on-line markets and payment services, but if you are selling equipment to people for more money than you know it can mine then you are taking advantage of them. I'm sure there are exceptions amongst people who have free electricity. With respect to use of S1 and S3 machines as heaters, its an interesting idea but the case for their deployment really depends on an explosion of BTC/fiat exchange rates that may or may not occur. That is a subject which is probably topic-worthy but in a different thread.

I disagree. Ebay is a reasonable way to judge a paypal-priced value for things, and for people who have no BTC and have no way to easily get BTC paying a 10%+ premium via ebay/paypal is not terrible.

and even if the equipment stops being profitable in 5 months with a $600/BTC, if prices jump to $1000 you can suddenly get another 2 months use and quite likely make a profit. You need to look at the value of the mining equipment both in terms of current market conditions as well as how the market may be in 6 months from now, or a year form now.

If BTC went up to $2000 during July, even the 7w/GH BFL equipment would start coming back online again and making small profits

Well sure. But if the seller thought this was likely to happen it is unlikely they'd be selling their equipment on ebay.

  Look this is a thread about bitmain tech gear. 
  I have sold all but 3 s-1's  in order to be ready for new s-3's.

  I am not here to argue  about ebay and ethics.

  I am here to talk about s-3's.  I plan to run 1 s-3 in house and to upgrade my remaining s-1's .  I eagerly await the s-3 .  I hope to be able to make the purchase soon.

 I also hope for btc price  run up in the fall.

I also have both mining gear and coins.  In anticipation of the fall price run up.

[ernie-]

My main gripe with the OP is Bitmain assumes $0.12 per KWH when doing their ROI calculations. For people like me who have to pay $0.29 per kWh and rising this week by another 14%, it's kind of a joke to see $0.12 used as the median electricity price.


Someone should start a poll to see the real price people are paying. Perhaps Bitmain could add power cost as a profile field on their shopping cart.

Not all of us live in China with subsidized electricity prices.

I think a large part of the US falls within the 0.10-0.15 range, it's not just China. At 0.29 you should consider hosting options. Adjusting ROI calculation won't do you any good, just think about that.

Quite true, buying GHS on cex.io with their huge fees, is more profitable atm than my Antminers, I understand that. Haven't looked into hosting options yet, buy I will make a point of doing so now that you have reminded me of it.
 

[s1gs3gv]

 Look this is a thread about bitmain tech gear.

Indeed. And we were discussing the S3 price. Someone, i don't remember who, started talking about how the ROI outlook was more optimistic than the calculators indicated because of the great prices they could get on ebay for their old unprofitable gear and about how valuable they were as heaters.

Was that you Phillip ?

[Biodom]

The mine and sell strategy is really just 'A Greater Fool' strategy … seems common and accepted around here but its not ethical.

Not ethical? This is new. Are iphone prices ethical when they cost $10-20 to built?
I think that these are pure market forces, nothing more or less.
A person posting the sale on ebay does not really know what the market would bear (in a straight auction, at least).
A person who buys could have a dozen of reasons why they pay whatever they pay.
Some people ask for crazy prices on ebay, but these auctions end up without a sale, as they should.
I am almost certain that with $600 price on S3 you would make money in 3-4 months.

[suchmoon]

if you are selling equipment to people for more money than you know it can mine then you are taking advantage of them.

Bullshit. Even if there is a screwed-up parallel universe where that statement makes any kind of sense you still can't expect an eBay seller or any other kind of merchant to KNOW and price their products individually to each buyer according to their electric rate and/or their expectation of an unpredictable quantity (i.e. bitcoin difficulty). If the product is advertised with correct specs and delivered on time, the rest is buyer's responsibility.

exactly: The Greater Fool exploit. You could say the same about any company selling their equipment to retail customers for more than it is likely to earn.

I would say that about any company selling anything. There are cases where free market doesn't quite work (e.g. monopolies) but this is not it. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy on eBay or to buy mining equipment at all. If someone can't be bothered to do their homework what are you suggesting? Government regulation on mining equipment sales? Force smarter market participants to subsidize the "fools"? How exactly - since you didn't address the question how the seller could possibly KNOW the miner is or is not going to be profitable for a particular buyer.

Edit: grammar.

[s1gs3gv]

Simply put: In a market with imperfect data, price is determined by the most optimistic (STUPID) investors.  

^ this

aka TGFE (The Greater Fool Exploit)

This bitcoin mining world is getting pretty ummm … sordid. There are a lot of questionable business practices going on.

Altruism is dead.

Everybody is now grasping for every little bit of coin they can get and praying for a big pump in the fall.

They are in it for what they can get, and make any excuse possible for their behavior.

It is a symptom of decay in the bitcoin ecosystem.

[crazyearner]

Question for BITMAIN regarding the upgrade s1 for s3 how will this work do we send old units back to you or do we just buy upgrade blades and plug in and have new firmware flash for units to work. How exactly is the upgrade going to work as it will be expensive for me to send units back to where they come from.

[contactlight]

Question for BITMAIN regarding the upgrade s1 for s3 how will this work do we send old units back to you or do we just buy upgrade blades and plug in and have new firmware flash for units to work. How exactly is the upgrade going to work as it will be expensive for me to send units back to where they come from.

I'm sorry, I must have missed... who said there will be upgrades?

[taipo]

Question for BITMAIN regarding the upgrade s1 for s3 how will this work do we send old units back to you or do we just buy upgrade blades and plug in and have new firmware flash for units to work. How exactly is the upgrade going to work as it will be expensive for me to send units back to where they come from.

Basically you take the frame, fan and PSU off yours and attach it to their upgrades...

[suchmoon]

Question for BITMAIN regarding the upgrade s1 for s3 how will this work do we send old units back to you or do we just buy upgrade blades and plug in and have new firmware flash for units to work. How exactly is the upgrade going to work as it will be expensive for me to send units back to where they come from.

I'm sorry, I must have missed... who said there will be upgrades?

Says right there in the OP:

The design of heat sink is customized but it is compatible with the hashing board of S1. Hence we will be able to provide all the S1 buyers an option of upgrade.

[taipo]

THIS JUST IN.......
Antminer S2 ships July 1st $1790 USD.......

They will clearly be able to see thousands of site visitors reloading their main page every 5 or so minutes.

They are trying to find that sweet spot that triggers those waiting on the S3 to part with their BTC for an S2.

They just need to get the fuck on with it and get that S3 released please!

[BitBob1955]

Simply put: In a market with imperfect data, price is determined by the most optimistic (STUPID) investors.  

^ this

aka TGFE (The Greater Fool Exploit)

This bitcoin mining world is getting pretty ummm … sordid. There are a lot of questionable business practices going on.

Altruism is dead.

Everybody is now grasping for every little bit of coin they can get and praying for a big pump in the fall.

They are in it for what they can get, and make any excuse possible for their behavior.

It is a symptom of decay in the bitcoin ecosystem.

I am not sure if that is entirely true. I sell asic equipment and use it. Yes I would like to make a profit..But my real drive is political, as is the motivation of many of the folks I sell to. I despise US banks in general, occupy wall street has proven ineffective. This exercise takes the banks for the most part out of this economic loop. Anything that hurts the banks is ok by me.
MaxBob

[crazyearner]

Question for BITMAIN regarding the upgrade s1 for s3 how will this work do we send old units back to you or do we just buy upgrade blades and plug in and have new firmware flash for units to work. How exactly is the upgrade going to work as it will be expensive for me to send units back to where they come from.

Basically you take the frame, fan and PSU off yours and attach it to their upgrades...

doubt will be much of a discount on upgrade option then was thinking more of sending units back etc and cashing old parts in and taking discount on and getting a upgrade etc. Will have to wait and see what happens in the coming weeks.

[philipma1957]

 Look this is a thread about bitmain tech gear.

Indeed. And we were discussing the S3 price. Someone, i don't remember who, started talking about how the ROI outlook was more optimistic than the calculators indicated because of the great prices they could get on ebay for their old unprofitable gear and about how valuable they were as heaters.

Was that you Phillip ?

 


     you are correct yes it was me that said that.  along with the fact that for some  ebay buyers  an s-3 in October   will work for them as a space heater.

 and that they may get it at a further discount if they have ebucks.



 So selling them  a piece of gear (in this case an s-3)  that does not roi in btc , but gives them a discount on their heating bill is not an unethical act.

  But like I said I am talking about a method of sales for s-3's   that will clearly show the heating discount the machine gives them.

 So I am awaiting one to see if the idea can be marketed .  I gave the idea to bitmaintech months ago and told them they were free to run with it.

 I am curious to see if the s-3 is what I explained in an older thread.  If it is the s-3 will prove to be far better then most can imagine.

[kendog77]

Question for BITMAIN regarding the upgrade s1 for s3 how will this work do we send old units back to you or do we just buy upgrade blades and plug in and have new firmware flash for units to work. How exactly is the upgrade going to work as it will be expensive for me to send units back to where they come from.

Basically you take the frame, fan and PSU off yours and attach it to their upgrades...

Unless the upgrade unit is a couple hundred less than the S3, this option makes little sense for the buyer. If I can clear more selling a S1 on ebay than I would save on the upgrade kit, it makes little sense to buy the upgrade kit over just selling the S1 and buying a S3.

[taipo]

I am just kidding about the upgrade kit. BITMAIN have not elaborated on what that will entail yet. Well, not that I have seen so far.

[Und3rd0g]

And now with everyones BTC per day income taking a dump, the fervor should rise to drive people to buy more than one miner at least.

The biggest challenge with that is the astronomical cost of electricity for these latest miners.

[Biodom]

Question for BITMAIN regarding the upgrade s1 for s3 how will this work do we send old units back to you or do we just buy upgrade blades and plug in and have new firmware flash for units to work. How exactly is the upgrade going to work as it will be expensive for me to send units back to where they come from.

Basically you take the frame, fan and PSU off yours and attach it to their upgrades...

Unless the upgrade unit is a couple hundred less than the S3, this option makes little sense for the buyer. If I can clear more selling a S1 on ebay than I would save on the upgrade kit, it makes little sense to buy the upgrade kit over just selling the S1 and buying a S3.

S1 upgrade is a non-factor, IMHO. It will be either too expensive or too difficult to implement. Everybody will focus on S3 instead.
Let's see if Bitmain could provide the reasonable S2 upgrade that was promised in much more specific terms (1.8-2TH).

[Meech]

 Look this is a thread about bitmain tech gear.

Indeed. And we were discussing the S3 price. Someone, i don't remember who, started talking about how the ROI outlook was more optimistic than the calculators indicated because of the great prices they could get on ebay for their old unprofitable gear and about how valuable they were as heaters.

Was that you Phillip ?

 


     you are correct yes it was me that said that.  along with the fact that for some  ebay buyers  an s-3 in October   will work for them as a space heater.

 and that they may get it at a further discount if they have ebucks.



 So selling them  a piece of gear (in this case an s-3)  that does not roi in btc , but gives them a discount on their heating bill is not an unethical act.

  But like I said I am talking about a method of sales for s-3's   that will clearly show the heating discount the machine gives them.

 So I am awaiting one to see if the idea can be marketed .  I gave the idea to bitmaintech months ago and told them they were free to run with it.

 I am curious to see if the s-3 is what I explained in an older thread.  If it is the s-3 will prove to be far better then most can imagine.

I thought I was the only one who turned the heat off during the winter!  These should run cooler so heat may have to be turned on this year.