I no longer work for Butterfly Labs (BFL)

[nexus99]

What I want to know is what happened at BFL between 3/31/13 and 6/30/13.  It took over 3 months for BFL to go from "shipping" Luke's Single to shipping my Single, and my Single was one of the first 100 ordered.  During that 3 month delay I lost the potential return of my 209BTC outlay.  I want to know if BFL was actively mining at extended length with first Singles.  Ultimately I was only able to mine a little over 17BTC with something I spent 209BTC.  There's not making positive ROI and then there's having a company steal your money outright by using your hardware while blatantly telling lies "oh we can't get it to work".  

A lot of units were going through testing some in the glassed room at the entrance and some in the semi trailer backed up to the loading dock where Bruce first worked when he was first hired. A whole bunch were sent to the butterfly lab's other facility (not one of their warehouses) in which Bruce should know where that one is. After the long testing period the miners were sent back to us where they were packaged and mailed out to customers. Later some of those miners starting coming back to us and were unpacked inspected and resent out to new customers. Jody handled that aspect mostly making sure the labeling was correct. Tense times it was then. Eventually there were so many people at the plant we all had trouble just working around each other. It was like a three ring circus. New product made and sent out for testing. Testing miners back at the plant to be shipped out. Miners sent out being shipped backed to be replaced and some not even opened then sent out to new people. Some of them the parts were taken off and used on other miners and the process started all over again.

Around March or early April a whole bunch of miners came back to the plant from some hosting company in KC probably because they were replaced with the upgraded models we were making. It makes perfect sense to me to replace 65nm miners with new 65nm miners now that it was explained what was REALLY produced back in February.   (hope this smiley works)

Statements like this make me think more and more you are either more clueless than Bick or you never worked there.  There were only 2 types of units that came back from hosting... RMAs and Units customers no longer wanted hosted and were sent in to be shipped out the them.  Bick's dumb enough to believe that equipment that is still earning more than the cost of electricity to run them would be returned to be scrapped.  Then of course there's this gem:

I concur that the miners were probably only tested for a few hours at their other facility (come to think of it it might have been at butterfly labs dedicated hosting companies). We put them in vans. Several days later the miners arrive at the testing facility. They are tested for a couple of hours. Then they are put back in the vans and delivered back to the plant arriving several days later. Reason? The traffic is terrible in KC. Oh My!

My first thought reading this was a Wizard of Oz reference... "I don't think we're in Kansas anymore Toto" and "Lions and tigers and bears OH MY!".  But wow, even the people in customer service aren't this clueless.  Off-site testing?  Bwahahahahaha.  Your lies are getting more and more ludicrous, pretty soon you will earn that scammer tag you thought they gave you...

How will I get a scammer tag? I read and commented on some guy here who even had a hard time paying for a scammer tag. Do they really give scammer tags to people on this forum for those trying to help but not to those who work shill for a company? And why are you helping butterfly labs so much especially since you know so much more than me and can easily help the other bitcoin guys here?

I have helped more with the three days that I have been here with only 40 posts then you have with being here almost a year with your 1331 posts. 6 more posts and you would be elite status. 1 more post my me and I get a 10% discount at some restaurant located somewhere in the galaxy.

As that Nibbknot called me a liar in another thread I withdraw my support for his story. You meany you.

[-ck]

How will I get a scammer tag? I read and commented on some guy here who even had a hard time paying for a scammer tag. Do they really give scammer tags to people on this forum for those trying to help but not to those who work shill for a company? And why are you helping butterfly labs so much especially since you know so much more than me and can easily help the other bitcoin guys here?

I have helped more with the three days that I have been here with only 40 posts then you have with being here almost a year with your 1331 posts. 6 more posts and you would be elite status. 1 more post my me and I get a 10% discount at some restaurant located somewhere in the galaxy.

You misunderstand.

First, the forum does not use scammer tags.

Second, you're the one claiming BFL are effectively scammers which is why the thread was moved here. Apart from BFL staff/affiliated people, no one here is actually calling you the scammer.

[k9quaint]

No wonder BFL and their brethren are able to operate. Critical posts that (exceed a certain threshold) about hardware companies end up moved away from the hardware forum.
Talk about selection bias. Hardware companies accused of being scams get moderated back to legitimate status.

Newbies will visit the hardware forum, see no threads about scams and think everything is safe and sound. Not that it matters at this point, I think the bad actors may have poisoned the BTC well past redemption. Time will tell.

[RoadStress]

No wonder BFL and their brethren are able to operate. Critical posts that (exceed a certain threshold) about hardware companies end up moved away from the hardware forum.
Talk about selection bias. Hardware companies accused of being scams get moderated back to legitimate status.

Newbies will visit the hardware forum, see no threads about scams and think everything is safe and sound. Not that it matters at this point, I think the bad actors may have poisoned the BTC well past redemption. Time will tell.

Allowing them to advertise here is a much worse things to do than having no scams threads in the Hardware section, but you have a valid point even if the BTC isn't well past redemption. BTC will live no matter how many Inaba tards there will be out there.

[seantab]

Hi,
Around two weeks ago due to lack of update from Josh aka Slok, I become suspicious if only fraction of percentage of money received by BFL allocated to actual Monarch development or even fake development. The reason for this was, after almost 6 month, I havent seen any sign of proof there is an actual working monarch other that grainy video that could easily be forged.  When I asked Josh/Slok in forums to please provide solid proof of work, they just banned me.  Since you worked there, could you please confirm to best of your knowledge if there is an actual working monarch card or did they just develop chips ? Do you think their cloudmining is being done using actual monarch cards ?  Any information would be helpful.  We spent ton of real money for this stupid thing and the only update from Josh is he is on a plane and probably taking a poop in a first class toilet.

Thanks

I left most recently, and since I'm no longer under their control I can now share with anybody interested two important things.

One, bcp19, whose first name is Bruce, DOES work for BFL. Ask him and I'm sure he'll say yes, but if he doesn't, I have no problem with linking to pictures of him while employed at the plant. He's been there since last fall. I seriously don't know what game he's playing on this forum and what he's trying to accomplished, but I'm pretty sure it ain't good. To be fair, he is a nice guy.

Second. BFL received chips months ago that were intended for what you guys consider the Monarch. Thousands of miners have already made at BFL's plant using those new chips. Ask Bruce that also. He knows. Since you're now curious as to where all them miners went and are continuing to go, here... http://www.coinware.io/. Moreover, HashTrade, NimbusMining, LiquidBits, and Netsolus. The lead guy for CoinWare is named James (I'm not stating his last name because I don't want to get in trouble, but I'm sure you smart guys can figure it out). James visits the plant a lot, walking around assembling unescorted then heads to the offices of management to discuss whatever.

This post is valid https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=262052.msg6877963#msg6877963 because I was there when two guys from HashFast (don't get the name mixed up with HashTrade) walked the plant with Sonny, David, and Josh.

I honestly don't want to get mixed up with this mess because I have a family and all. BFL treated me pretty fairly while I was there, but feel it important for you guys who have millions still tied up and waiting for equipment to be aware. It's a shame that you guys who ordered first will probably be the last to get your miners. At least when you do get them, you'll make your money back, even if it takes longer than you planned, if I understand correctly how the whole thing works. Still, it's a screwed up deal.

One more thing, for what it's worth. Everybody in the plant knows about Sonny's past, and some not mentioned here, and we all joke about how we are (was for me, now) working for crooks and scumbags, most the time in Spanish when management is not around, of course. ....
... Sorry if I said too much. All I wanted to say was about Bruce and CoinWare and how you guys are getting screwed big time.

Peace.

[seantab]

dear BCP19 Is there actual Monarch under development or is this whole thing smoking mirrors? When I asked Josh to post proof of work, he simply banned me from BFL forums.  Apparently using logic is not a correct method of communication with bunch scam artists.  They advertised this Monarch thing 2-3 month away from production, 6 month later your company "Butterfly Labs" only produced a grainy video.  Josh latest update is on the plane... probably taking a shit in first class cabin.  Could you please provide useful information to prove there is an actual monarch development? Bunch of kids running lemonade stand would have completed this Monarch with sum of ~$100 Million received. I also think your bosses pocket around 99% of the funds and allocated around 1% to development that is why this development taking too long and or havent been able to hire talented people to actually roll this out of production.  Any valuable information from you will be helpful.

Thanks,
btw, I am an actual customer who paid real money for this Monarch.

What I want to know is what happened at BFL between 3/31/13 and 6/30/13.  It took over 3 months for BFL to go from "shipping" Luke's Single to shipping my Single, and my Single was one of the first 100 ordered.  During that 3 month delay I lost the potential return of my 209BTC outlay.  I want to know if BFL was actively mining at extended length with first Singles.  Ultimately I was only able to mine a little over 17BTC with something I spent 209BTC.  There's not making positive ROI and then there's having a company steal your money outright by using your hardware while blatantly telling lies "oh we can't get it to work".  

A lot of units were going through testing some in the glassed room at the entrance and some in the semi trailer backed up to the loading dock where Bruce first worked when he was first hired. A whole bunch were sent to the butterfly lab's other facility (not one of their warehouses) in which Bruce should know where that one is. After the long testing period the miners were sent back to us where they were packaged and mailed out to customers. Later some of those miners starting coming back to us and were unpacked inspected and resent out to new customers. Jody handled that aspect mostly making sure the labeling was correct. Tense times it was then. Eventually there were so many people at the plant we all had trouble just working around each other. It was like a three ring circus. New product made and sent out for testing. Testing miners back at the plant to be shipped out. Miners sent out being shipped backed to be replaced and some not even opened then sent out to new people. Some of them the parts were taken off and used on other miners and the process started all over again.

Around March or early April a whole bunch of miners came back to the plant from some hosting company in KC probably because they were replaced with the upgraded models we were making. It makes perfect sense to me to replace 65nm miners with new 65nm miners now that it was explained what was REALLY produced back in February.   (hope this smiley works)

Statements like this make me think more and more you are either more clueless than Bick or you never worked there.  There were only 2 types of units that came back from hosting... RMAs and Units customers no longer wanted hosted and were sent in to be shipped out the them.  Bick's dumb enough to believe that equipment that is still earning more than the cost of electricity to run them would be returned to be scrapped.  Then of course there's this gem:

I concur that the miners were probably only tested for a few hours at their other facility (come to think of it it might have been at butterfly labs dedicated hosting companies). We put them in vans. Several days later the miners arrive at the testing facility. They are tested for a couple of hours. Then they are put back in the vans and delivered back to the plant arriving several days later. Reason? The traffic is terrible in KC. Oh My!

My first thought reading this was a Wizard of Oz reference... "I don't think we're in Kansas anymore Toto" and "Lions and tigers and bears OH MY!".  But wow, even the people in customer service aren't this clueless.  Off-site testing?  Bwahahahahaha.  Your lies are getting more and more ludicrous, pretty soon you will earn that scammer tag you thought they gave you...

[ibminer]

dear BCP19 Is there actual Monarch under development or is this whole thing smoking mirrors? When I asked Josh to post proof of work, he simply banned me from BFL forums.  Apparently using logic is not a correct method of communication with bunch scam artists.  They advertised this Monarch thing 2-3 month away from production, 6 month later your company "Butterfly Labs" only produced a grainy video.  Josh latest update is on the plane... probably taking a shit in first class cabin.  Could you please provide useful information to prove there is an actual monarch development? Bunch of kids running lemonade stand would have completed this Monarch with sum of ~$100 Million received. I also think your bosses pocket around 99% of the funds and allocated around 1% to development that is why this development taking too long and or havent been able to hire talented people to actually roll this out of production.  Any valuable information from you will be helpful.

Thanks,
btw, I am an actual customer who paid real money for this Monarch.

Bunch of kids running a lemonade stand are not plagued with greed. If there is a monarch, and I do not doubt there will be a piece of shit in a box labelled a monarch, it will take an extreme amount of time to receive, while you watch Josh's online circus. But don't worry, they usually give you some type of coupon on their next piece of shit in a box.

… in the end, its all smoking mirrors man.  

[bcp19]

dear BCP19 Is there actual Monarch under development or is this whole thing smoking mirrors? When I asked Josh to post proof of work, he simply banned me from BFL forums.  Apparently using logic is not a correct method of communication with bunch scam artists.  They advertised this Monarch thing 2-3 month away from production, 6 month later your company "Butterfly Labs" only produced a grainy video.  Josh latest update is on the plane... probably taking a shit in first class cabin.  Could you please provide useful information to prove there is an actual monarch development? Bunch of kids running lemonade stand would have completed this Monarch with sum of ~$100 Million received. I also think your bosses pocket around 99% of the funds and allocated around 1% to development that is why this development taking too long and or havent been able to hire talented people to actually roll this out of production.  Any valuable information from you will be helpful.

Thanks,
btw, I am an actual customer who paid real money for this Monarch.

Yes, we are trying to finalize development now.  dropt has said he's an EE, so this is for you:  I'm a tech, not an engineer, I test and troubleshoot, I don't design, I may not know the 'PC' words for this phase of development.  I will give you this though... 300 amps at .6v... maybe now you understand the problem...

[ElGrandJefe]

I will give you this though... 300 amps at .6v... maybe now you understand the problem...

So you still don't have a handle on the heat dissipation on the boards yet?  Thanks for sharing that development tidbit.

Looks like Two Weeks™ then.

Good to know that BFL's top asshole shill PCB technician/engineer is on the job, working tirelessly to ensure "the problem..." gets solved as quickly as possible*

_{*When he isn't trolling the fuck out of bitcoin forums. One must set priorities, after all.}

[s1lverbox]

reserved

[xray]

The fact is BFL has lied and lied and lied. THIS IS A FACT
Some Ex staff member comes here and tells us possible things that have been going on for the last 10 months,(You have agreed are partially true) thats much more than BFL has told us with there lies
And Bfl expect us to believe them now,
 Come clean and show us what you have been doing for the last 10 months with all our money and stop the lies

[seantab]

Thank you BCP12 for this bit of information.  Josh has failed to provide any tangible proof of actual development perhaps because he doesn't know how to make walk through video but he and Nasser are good at login in as Slok in BFL forum banning and censoring legitimate customer questions or login as fake customers almost as if they are playing with themselves in public forum (BFL forum).

I am EE myself but I have ton of respect for Technicians because many of my own techs are 100 times smarter and sharper than myself. Do you think you would be able to post a walk through video of working monarch to ease some doubt. Walk through video is simply connecting unplugged monarch, plugin it in, and start hashing while being followed with a simple cell phone video? 

I afraid if BFL can not even make descent walk through video as a proof of work, how the heck they are building this Monarch.  Hopefully you can ease some of these questions.

Thanks,
Sean

Yes, we are trying to finalize development now.  dropt has said he's an EE, so this is for you:  I'm a tech, not an engineer, I test and troubleshoot, I don't design, I may not know the 'PC' words for this phase of development.  I will give you this though... 300 amps at .6v... maybe now you understand the problem...

[nexus99]

I will give you this though... 300 amps at .6v... maybe now you understand the problem...

300amps @ 0.6v? So that's 180 watts if I remember my maths correctly...

180w for what though? Per chip? Per device?

I think that the Habanero is running 600+ watts through a single board. 4 6 pin power plugs.
It gets pretty dang hot.

Just as a comparison.

[seantab]

I encourage BCP19 to help uncover BFL mysteries and scams. All these HW operating #s probably meaningless if this Monarch turns out to be an imaginary development or smoking mirrors.  FBI knocking on doors of BFL, Josh, Nasser is RSN any day now.

I will give you this though... 300 amps at .6v... maybe now you understand the problem...

300amps @ 0.6v? So that's 180 watts if I remember my maths correctly...

180w for what though? Per chip? Per device?

I think that the Habanero is running 600+ watts through a single board. 4 6 pin power plugs.
It gets pretty dang hot.

Just as a comparison.

[Xian01]

smoking mirrors 

I believe you are meaning to use the metaphor "smoke and mirrors".

[seantab]

Exactly, Yep, I mean no magic tricks or fake videos etc.  I dont have anything against their technicians or employees, they are just doing their job.  But their board of directors are bunch of tricksters.

smoking mirrors 

I believe you are meaning to use the metaphor "smoke and mirrors".

[Justin00]

Sean you are obviously newish here I'll assume by activity.
Did you choose BFL because all the posts/threads/everything on forum was hidden, moved or deleted.
Not being negative regarding you, It just would be good to get clear clarification that the forum could be doing alot more to assist people in not getting screwed by these people that have been running the same trick for what 1.5 years now ?

I know the forum doesnt hold peoples hands... but jeeesus christ. come on.. help a little...

[sidehack]

I think that the Habanero is running 600+ watts through a single board. 4 6 pin power plugs.
It gets pretty dang hot.

Habaneros are capable of pulling about 800W readily, with around 90% efficient phased VRMs outputting around 900mV. Assuming 90% conversion to 0.9V that's 800A of low-volt DC. 300A at 0.6V isn't actually too hard to pull off reliably. Just saying, but every other ASIC manufacturer has accomplished that or better in a heck of a lot less time.

[seantab]

Absolutely I appreciate the question specially by senior members or moderators such as yourself hopefully to make possible tweaks for future customers. But first little demographic about myself: Technologist, software architect, robotic hobbyist, internet sway, and reverse engineer, and of course a crypto currency fan as of 8 month ago.  

I am dumb but not too dumb nevertheless fell in Butterfly Labs trap for following reasons:

 1- I did research them for scam including most other big players. They all equally had several # of complaints, but I didnt find major law suites that I could pin point or they all had similar allegations.
 2- BFL was located in US.  I figured worse case scenario I be dealing with a company in US than China or Europe.
 3- I noticed many good reviews on BFL Singles on youtube, and even saw ads such as this one that they being sold in retail such as Tigerdirect & Walmart.  For example see this one: http://www.walmart.com/ip/34952957?wmlspartner=wlpa&adid=22222222227023099684&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=36174013381&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=65388671101&veh=sem
 4- They accept USD, in addition to Bitcoin.  Most others would take bitcoin which I didnt have.


What I didn't know or just realized several weeks ago was the fact that they pocket 99% of funds received and allocate less than 1% to development, which is the reason for super late development.  I used to think the complex technology was a contributing factor, and didnt know they under fund development.  Also I didnt realize their board members are bunch of Jackass running ponzi scheme with hardware.

I even searched top 10 bitcoin miner in google and landed in PC Magazine or Toms Hardware and BFL was right on top.

I think what this forum or similar could do to help is a recommended manufacture link and rated by trusted senior members like your selves.  I am sure such link probably exist but perhaps buried or crowded with many posts.  I guess clean list of scam alerts for member and or manufacture, that is easy to locate would be very helpful and could reduce number of people falling in this trap.

I am also twitting some of my findings to reporters who apparently interviewing BFL and using appropriate # hashtag to help expose these jackasses whenever I get a chance.  As you would see in Josh twitter.  However I am doing it based on facts also copying FBI and KC police, in case they actually read the tweets.

Hope this help.

Thanks
Sean

Sean you are obviously newish here I'll assume by activity.
Did you choose BFL because all the posts/threads/everything on forum was hidden, moved or deleted.
Not being negative regarding you, It just would be good to get clear clarification that the forum could be doing alot more to assist people in not getting screwed by these people that have been running the same trick for what 1.5 years now ?

I know the forum doesnt hold peoples hands... but jeeesus christ. come on.. help a little...

[intron]

I think what this forum or similar could do to help is a recommended manufacture link and rated by trusted senior members like your selves.  I am sure such link probably exist but perhaps buried or crowded with many posts.  I guess clean list of scam alerts for member and or manufacture, that is easy to locate would be very helpful and could reduce number of people falling in this trap.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=456691.msg5035154#msg5035154