[ANN] Swarm Fund 1.0 - [OFFLINE THREAD]

[Joint Force]

BTW anyone interested in talking about DAOs, DACs, DCOs and whatever other name people want to call these so they can claim they invented them can be discussed here:
https://allcryptotalk.com/index.php/forum/97-daos-dacs/

As far as I know it's the first forum with a DAO section.

[Chang Hum]

The PDF you wrote in conjunction with Jerry Britto, if I've interpreted it correctly, seems to imply that a DCO would fail the Howey test because of the power you give to "members" in voting decisions, therefore the investment isn't reliant on the sole efforts of a third party. I'm struggling to understand how this is any different to a common stockholder?

It's partially a matter of rights, partially a matter of technology. The reality is that 'common stock' in a classic context is secured via the existing legal system instead of the blockchain, which means that any sort of voting needs to be run through lawyers. This makes it extremely expensive to run a stock holder vote, etc., which ultimately leads to less involvement from stockholders. Also, as I'm sure you know you only have the possibility of having public stock holders once you are on a public market (i.e. post-IPO)

So the difference may not be so much a difference in intent, but a difference in result due to better technology. New technology allows better and more granular control from more participants.

Thanks for the reply, but you're missing my point. What I'm saying is the main thing you say legally differentiates you under a DCO, from being a security, doesn't.

Also a moot point but votings very simple for common stockholders, I received several voting forms from my brokers in the post yesterday, they're laid out with tick boxes for voting decisions, which you can submit by mail, telephone or online at www.proxypush.com/IBUS. You authorize someone to give a proxy vote on your behalf, I can't understand why you think this is run through lawyers?

I'm planning a crowdsale by the end of the year and have come up with a different conclusion on how to separate myself from a security, while still giving a solid incentive to investors. I'd be interested to hear what you think, the plan may change, and as of yet I haven't received any legal advice on the matter.

I'm looking into selling vouchers for one of my products which can be redeemed with me at anytime, however I'll propose that the money raised be used for marketing my product and a portion of the proceeds from sales go into a free prize draw. Every voucher sold will represent 1 prize draw entry. Prizes issued will be my products, as well as Bitcoins up to the value of $50 (limited by law on a free prize draw).

The voucher should hold it's value, as long as the price is a fair reflection of the underlying product, while offering a premium bonds style investment that relates to a return on future profits. With a hint of sarcasm I've coined the acronym for this profit sharing structure, "DPPV" (distributed, product and prize vouchers)

http://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/pdf/prize%20competitions%20and%20free%20draws%20-%20the%20requirements%20of%20the%20gambling%20act%202005%20-%20december%202009.pdf

[zeeman]

Also a moot point but votings very simple for common stockholders, I received several voting forms from my brokers in the post yesterday, they're laid out with tick boxes for voting decisions, which you can submit by mail, telephone or online at www.proxypush.com/IBUS. You authorize someone to give a proxy vote on your behalf, I can't understand why you think this is run through lawyers?

Hi there, I get this voting forms as well. Interactive brokers sends them to my home and I can choose to vote. But if you're a little start-up creating an App for Iphone and Android, how can this be
done? It can't. That's one of the great things when creating a DCO and doing a crowdsale. The coins/tokens make you able to vote on subjects for the little start-up as well, without the need for them to be traded on the NASDAQ or so. It makes smaller investors able to invest in little companies as well, so not only the big VC's and investment firms are able to get in, you should be able to as well. When it comes to cryptoequity I even think people should have the same rights as VC's as well. I wish I was able to get in to Oculus or Uber when they were small. The same for PONO, they made you able to invest in them, but you needed at least $5000 (and be in the US?) to do so. What I hope is that this will become different in the future. I think it would be great when even a 19 year old in India is able to become a "stockholder" or at least has the same rights as the big guys. Even if he has only $20 to invest. That's why I volunteered for Swarm. We should all be able to invest in little start-ups and crowdsales. And when a new Uber or Oculus gets funded, we should get more than an early buy of their product or a T-shirt, we should be able to get the same rights as VC's and others. That's my dream    

I'm planning a crowdsale by the end of the year and have come up with a different conclusion on how to separate myself from a security, while still giving a solid incentive to investors. I'd be interested to hear what you think, the plan may change, and as of yet I haven't received any legal advice on the matter.

That's great. Did you had a look at the DCO-model?

[Chang Hum]

Also a moot point but votings very simple for common stockholders, I received several voting forms from my brokers in the post yesterday, they're laid out with tick boxes for voting decisions, which you can submit by mail, telephone or online at www.proxypush.com/IBUS. You authorize someone to give a proxy vote on your behalf, I can't understand why you think this is run through lawyers?

Hi there, I get this voting forms as well. Interactive brokers sends them to my home and I can choose to vote. But if you're a little start-up creating an App for Iphone and Android, how can this be
done? It can't. That's one of the great things when creating a DCO and doing a crowdsale. The coins/tokens make you able to vote on subjects for the little start-up as well, without the need for them to be traded on the NASDAQ or so. It makes smaller investors able to invest in little companies as well, so not only the big VC's and investment firms are able to get in, you should be able to as well. When it comes to cryptoequity I even think people should have the same rights as VC's as well. I wish I was able to get in to Oculus or Uber when they were small. The same for PONO, they made you able to invest in them, but you needed at least $5000 (and be in the US?) to do so. What I hope is that this will become different in the future. I think it would be great when even a 19 year old in India is able to become a "stockholder" or at least has the same rights as the big guys. Even if he has only $20 to invest. That's why I volunteered for Swarm. We should all be able to invest in little start-ups and crowdsales. And when a new Uber or Oculus gets funded, we should get more than an early buy of their product or a T-shirt, we should be able to get the same rights as VC's and others. That's my dream    

I'm planning a crowdsale by the end of the year and have come up with a different conclusion on how to separate myself from a security, while still giving a solid incentive to investors. I'd be interested to hear what you think, the plan may change, and as of yet I haven't received any legal advice on the matter.

That's great. Did you had a look at the DCO-model?

Yes I did have a read about it, seems very much like common stock, hence my questioning of how it solves any legal issues. Will be interesting to watch how it evolves.

[fractastical]

Yes I did have a read about it, seems very much like common stock, hence my questioning of how it solves any legal issues. Will be interesting to watch how it evolves.

I'd suggest reading the whole working paper if you haven't already.

I found your own strategy very interesting and would be very happy to discuss it further, perhaps via email.

[fractastical]

btw, our forum members have started to produce some very interesting and high quality content, such as this:

https://discourse.swarm.fund/t/suggestions-for-the-swarm-community-on-basic-income-voluntary-basic-capital/183

Although some here have just pointed out some similarities between DCOs and traditional corporate vehicles, I think this illustrates how DCOs can be utilized as a more general purpose tool that solves existing problems around public goods and intellectual property. I've actually never fully reported all of our research there (the history of the swarm was already long enough, but I have a large legal database at this point on the various potential applications of this type of new model.

We've started to see some of them pop up on our projects page, but I think there are a lot of things to be added soon. I'm also planning to write another longer piece on the power of programmable governance.

[Joint Force]

Does SWARM work with other crowd funding platforms?


I see Spells of Genesis listed at:

https://koinify.com/#/

and

https://swarm.fund/projects/Spells_of_Genesis_1430358092

[ShapeShift.io]

ShapeShift.io has added Swarm to their instant digital asset exchange. Buy or sell swarm instantly. No account needed.

‪Bitcoin‬<-> Swarm
‪Litecoin‬ <-> Swarm
‪‎BTS‬ <-> Swarm
‪XCP‬ <-> Swarm
‪Dogecoin‬ <-> Swarm
‪Nxt‬ <-> Swarm
‎XRP‬ <-> Swarm
‪Clams‬ <-> Swarm
‎Dash‬ <-> Swarm
‎Monero‬ <-> Swarm
‪Nubits‬ <-> Swarm
‪Vericoin‬ <-> Swarm

[fractastical]

Does SWARM work with other crowd funding platforms?

There's no reason why a project can't run their governance through us and crowdsale through another platform. Among other things, we don't have the tech to support all asset issuances, but we welcome the listings.

[fractastical]

Happy to announce that our first project launched on the DCO model (Swarm Fund) went over 100% of its goal in under 24hrs. Stay tuned for more upcoming distributions (i.e. Swarm basic income).

[bitcoinrocks]

Happy to announce that our first project launched on the DCO model (Swarm Fund) went over 100% of its goal in under 24hrs. Stay tuned for more upcoming distributions (i.e. Swarm basic income).

I'm not sure what you mean here.  You guys just launched a project called Swarm Fund?

[zeeman]

I'm not sure what you mean here.  You guys just launched a project called Swarm Fund?

The website is open for people to create a DCO. Here's the latest Newsletter where people
with great ideas are invited to do so. You create a project-page, with all the information about your project and links to videos etc. You can take a look at some projects already.
Swarm Fund is one of them.

[fractastical]

Yep, we've had over 70 projects adopt this model so far. So far it seems to be best suited for community projects with a wide base of appeal and funds that are structured as partnerships. We've sort of already done the first so we thought we would also do the second.

[bitcoinrocks]

Yep, we've had over 70 projects adopt this model so far. So far it seems to be best suited for community projects with a wide base of appeal and funds that are structured as partnerships. We've sort of already done the first so we thought we would also do the second.

At what point do the projects listed on swarm.fund/projects turn into Basic Income coin/asset distributions?

Will there be a Basic Income distribution of Swarm Fund coins/assets?

Is it possible to purchase Swarm Fund coins/assets without participating in the project?

[fractastical]

Yep, we've had over 70 projects adopt this model so far. So far it seems to be best suited for community projects with a wide base of appeal and funds that are structured as partnerships. We've sort of already done the first so we thought we would also do the second.

At what point do the projects listed on swarm.fund/projects turn into Basic Income coin/asset distributions?

I'm expecting this to be fully automated within the next week so that every time anyone issues assets there will be an automatic distribution. This may happen when the asset is created or when someone clicks the "start crowdfund" option our interface.

Will there be a Basic Income distribution of Swarm Fund coins/assets?

Yes.

Is it possible to purchase Swarm Fund coins/assets without participating in the project?

No. Participation is restricted to active Swarm agents at the moment.

[bitcoinrocks]

I'm expecting this to be fully automated within the next week so that every time anyone issues assets there will be an automatic distribution. This may happen when the asset is created or when someone clicks the "start crowdfund" option our interface.

How many projects have created an asset that hasn't been distributed via Basic Income yet?  I believe Swarm Fund is one.

[zeeman]

I'm expecting this to be fully automated within the next week so that every time anyone issues assets there will be an automatic distribution. This may happen when the asset is created or when someone clicks the "start crowdfund" option our interface.

How many projects have created an asset that hasn't been distributed via Basic Income yet?  I believe Swarm Fund is one.

So far people can create a DCO but are not able to create assets as far as I know. A lot of testing has been done, I made a test-DCO myself to test the backend. A lot of others did as well to make sure things work correctly. I have no time schedule, but things are going well. So I personally hope to see projects go "live" and create coins as soon as possible.   

[bitcoinrocks]

I'm expecting this to be fully automated within the next week so that every time anyone issues assets there will be an automatic distribution. This may happen when the asset is created or when someone clicks the "start crowdfund" option our interface.

Any update on this?

BTW, what are your favorite Swarm projects currently?  Vevue looks interesting.

[zeeman]

I'm expecting this to be fully automated within the next week so that every time anyone issues assets there will be an automatic distribution. This may happen when the asset is created or when someone clicks the "start crowdfund" option our interface.

Any update on this?

BTW, what are your favorite Swarm projects currently?  Vevue looks interesting.

What I last heard is that the team gathered in Palo Alto and that some of them are working 18H a day to build the thing. A lot of programming needs to be done. I like Vevue indeed. Nice people as well, trying to do things right, working a lot of hours on their project for a very long time now. I really can't wait to see the projects go live  

[bitcoinrocks]

If I may ask, since Counterparty produces the tokens, where is the functionality gap that requires so much work?  Maybe the web interface to Counterparty?  Or distributing the tokens to SWARM holders?