LargeCoin Pricing Announced; Taking Pre-Orders

[JWU42]

The impact of all 25 20Ghash/s ASIC rigs would be both significant but still small. In addition, the cost is too high for all but the very-long term risk-takers.

The current difficulty indicates a network hashrate of 10799 GHash/s.
You would be adding 500 GHash/s to that when all these rigs turn on.

Each 20GHash rig will increase the difficulty by 2793.
The current difficulty is 1508590. Each rig is still a drop in the bucket...

It would take $1,800,000 worth of LargeCoin rigs (60 of them) to mine 10% of the Bitcoins (5040 BTC a week, currently valued at $25200), while consuming 50A @ 120V doing it. The difficulty going up just 11.1% from such a purchase won't completely destroy the existing mining economy... You would have to hope that many miners will quit when the reward goes down.

It would take 143 weeks (2.7 years) of 25BTC/block mining to break even on your investment with free electricity, if the hashrate of the rest of the network and the exchange rate stayed the same (you could also get rich, or the Bitcoin economy could completely collapse). This is a risky investment unless you think value is going up up up. If you do, $30,000 will buy you 6125 BTC off MtGox right now; your Largecoin miner would only make that much after 145+ weeks of mining if nobody else turns on a mining rig.

LC rigs were at $15K - just FYI

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[deepceleron]

LC rigs were at $15K - just FYI

aha, just found: "Okay, everyone. We've read the forums, and have carefully considered the ROI calculations that have been submitted by various of you. We have also talked to many of you by telephone. After much research and contemplation, we have decided to offer the first 25 customers who order a C200 unit by April 15 a 50% discount on our initial price of $30,000 per unit to ensure that we can establish trust with an initial group of customers." (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=67505.msg797876#msg797876). I'm sure the responses they got to revise pricing were similar to my post.

At $15,000, that puts the miners in the "definitely more reasonable" zone. The offer has expired though (and they apparently took more than 25 preorders at that price too).

[DeathAndTaxes]

At $15,000, that puts the miners in the "definitely more reasonable" zone. The offer has expired though (and they apparently took more than 25 preorders at that price too).

My guess is they will never sell a single unit @ $30K.  As you point out the math doesn't make any sense.  By the time they are beyond pre-orders; BFL should be caught up on back orders, possibly have rigbox out, the new FPGA upstart releasing products, new Lancelot board out, possibly a price cut on the quad ztek, and all FPGA makers looking towards 28nm Artix based miners at end of the year.

If it doesn't make sense now @ $30K in makes even less sense in a more competitive environment near the end of the year.

[bitpop]

odd indeed, i want PHOTOS

[Dalkore]

You would have to hope that many miners will quit when the reward goes down.

Interesting question posed here.   What are the thoughts on this?   I have been doing calculations and have some interesting scenarios worked out.


Dalkore

[ElectricBrain]

I agree I was excited until I looked at the numbers and thought about the agreement.  

1. $4500 is enough to build a fake and run off with the pre-orders.
2. No one knows for sure you can accomplish this.
3. You have no reputation, or testimonials of your past accomplishments.
4. I want to see your face, and more of web presence with an address and phone number
5. You can't start small by selling low cost systems as part of building your rep between now and July?

Well, I hope you are not a fraud as I would love to buy a system.

I know that it doesn't prove anything, but during the past year ttul mentioned several times that they were working on an ASIC.

The "Long Con" is an art only the best scammers can pull off. I don't think this is a SCAM, but if it is, it's a good one.

[bulanula]

Any updates ?

Hoping they did not run off with all the moneys

[dropt]

Any updates ?

Hoping they did not run off with all the moneys

IIRC, all deposits were to be held in escrow, so there will be no "running off with all the moneys."

I think I found a listed address at one point, next time I'm in Vancouver maybe I should swing by.

[rjk]

If you search the thread, you'll find some users that claim to have discussed things with them on the phone. Maybe those users ought to give them a ring and see what's up.

[bitlane]

PRICING AND DEPOSIT DETAILS

The C200 IMU is priced at USD $30,000. We are selling 25 units initially, with more to come later in 2012. To secure your place in the line, you must make a $4,500 deposit, which will be held in escrow by a third party until product delivery. You and LargeCoin will sign an escrow agreement to this effect before any money is transferred. The deposit will be returned to you if product delivery does not take place by July 31, 2012.

==============================================

PRODUCT DESCRIPTION

The LargeCoin C200 is the world's first purpose-built Bitcoin mining appliance. Designed to fit within a standard 1U of rack space, the C200 connects to the network using Ethernet, and starts mining as soon as it's plugged in to the wall. Mining is controlled via an online control panel hosted by LargeCoin, which allows you to direct mining shares to the pool of your choice and manage your entire LargeCoin cluster in one convenient place. Each C200 mines at 20GHash/s, consuming a mere 100W. Designed for high density operation, the C200 provides efficient movement of air and is suitable for operating in a fully loaded 42U rack (up to 40 units per rack).

20 GH/s for $30,000 (although some $15,000 pre-orders were taken ?)

Just thought I would BUMP this with BFL's new Press Release recently and compare...

1)    BitForce SC Jalapeno: a USB powered coffee warmer providing 3.5 GH/s, priced at under $149
2)    BitForce SC Single: a standalone unit providing roughly 40 GH/s, priced at $1,299
3)    BitForce SC Mini Rig: a case & rack mount server providing 1 TH/s, priced at $29,899

Even @ $15,000, using BFL's pricing, that would essentially buy someone approx 440 GH/s (11 BFL $1300 Units)....a far cry from 20 GH/s.

Now, I don't know shit about ASICs, but it's clear that with the 2 companies in question above (Butterfly Labs and LargeCoin) 1 of 2 possibilities MUST be correct:

1) Someone is COMPLTELY FULL OF SHIT in regards to performance/pricing (BFL).
2) Someone got a little TOO GREEDY and will end up missing the boat....(LC)

Which is true ? (or both true to a certain extent?)

Thoughts ?

... we have received many orders. We're quickly eating up the first 25, so please fill in the order form soon if you don't want to miss out. In the spirit of openness, we are already at 31 orders and counting, but it's assumed that some people won't fill out the deposit so please do get your order in.

JESUS H CHRIST !

31 Orders = 31 PISSED OFF PEOPLE if BFL can actually come through before 2014......

[Variable]

Wouldn't it be possible to say that LargeCoin's tech is just not near as advanced?  Also, if LargeCoin keeps their promise to have it in user hands by the end of July that would make them market leader for a while.  There is no way BFL is actually going to have their stuff out anytime soon.

[rjk]

Wouldn't it be possible to say that LargeCoin's tech is just not near as advanced? 

Yeah this. If they would have sold them when they made the announcement, they would be free and clear. Since they waited, they've probably blown the NRE and produced a bunch of outdated chips.

[Clipse]

You all assume ttul really had 31 orders and there is no way to verify that its not just his own marketing hype he tried to create.

My absolute best guess is that if someone did pre-order they have allready done a chargeback(hopefully they paid with some form of chargeback capable method)

[Brian DeLoach]

My absolute best guess is that if someone did pre-order they have allready done a chargeback(hopefully they paid with some form of chargeback capable method)

Pre-ordering didn't involve transfer of funds.

[rjk]

My absolute best guess is that if someone did pre-order they have allready done a chargeback(hopefully they paid with some form of chargeback capable method)

Pre-ordering didn't involve transfer of funds.

Yeah it's a shame how people think that pre-ordering always requires payment up front. It's a byproduct of how BFL is treating the community.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Pre-ordering didn't involve transfer of funds.

To secure your place in the line, you must make a $4,500 deposit, which will be held in escrow by a third party until product delivery.

[Sant001]

Hi Everyone,

LargeCoin is pleased to announce that we are now taking deposits against pre-orders of our first dedicated, ASIC-based mining appliance, the LC C200 Integrated Mining Unit (IMU). Deposits will be held in third party escrow until final product delivery, which is expected in July 2012, and will be refunded if the product cannot be delivered on time. And yes, you can pay with Bitcoins if you prefer. Additional product details, along with terms and conditions, are found toward the end of this message.

If you would like to be contacted about making a pre-order, please use the following Google form to let us know:

http://bit.ly/A53ShJ

PRICING AND DEPOSIT DETAILS

The C200 IMU is priced at USD $30,000. We are selling 25 units initially, with more to come later in 2012. To secure your place in the line, you must make a $4,500 deposit, which will be held in escrow by a third party until product delivery. You and LargeCoin will sign an escrow agreement to this effect before any money is transferred. The deposit will be returned to you if product delivery does not take place by July 31, 2012.

==============================================

PRODUCT DESCRIPTION

The LargeCoin C200 is the world's first purpose-built Bitcoin mining appliance. Designed to fit within a standard 1U of rack space, the C200 connects to the network using Ethernet, and starts mining as soon as it's plugged in to the wall. Mining is controlled via an online control panel hosted by LargeCoin, which allows you to direct mining shares to the pool of your choice and manage your entire LargeCoin cluster in one convenient place. Each C200 mines at 20GHash/s, consuming a mere 100W. Designed for high density operation, the C200 provides efficient movement of air and is suitable for operating in a fully loaded 42U rack (up to 40 units per rack).

Despite the incredible power efficiency and spatial density of the C200, it's priced competitively with GPU mining. When compared with GPU mining, the C200 consumes 100 times less electricity and 14 times less rack space, meaning there's virtually no operating cost associated with this device.

TERMS AND CONDITIONS

Your deposit guarantees that LargeCoin will ship you a C200 IMU by July 31, 2012, that the specifications of the final product will not deviate materially from the specifications shown here, and that the device will function properly when it is plugged in. When you receive the unit and connect it to the network, you will be granted a temporary mining license enabling the system to mine for a period of 30 days. When we receive the balance of your payment, a permanent mining license will be issued to you. C200 IMUs may be transferred and re-sold -- just let us know before you make the sale so that we can transfer ownership of your license key.

SHIPPING

LargeCoin ships to North American destinations for free. Shipping costs for other destinations will be born by the customer and must be paid in advance. We will notify you when the shipping date approaches and provide a shipping quote for your review and final approval. International customers should be aware that air freight and insurance may cost $2,500 or more.

90-DAY LIMITED WARRANTY

LargeCoin warrants that the C200 will function materially consistent with the specifications for a period of 90 days following device activation, which occurs when you plug the unit in to a network with Internet connectivity for the first time. If the device fails, you may return it to us at LargeCoin's expense for a full refund, or replacement unit. Devices that are dead on arrival will be replaced or refunded.

NO GUARANTEE OF MINING REWARD OR FINANCIAL PERFORMANCE

Due to the random nature of Bitcoin mining, and the large uncertainties in the Bitcoin economy and network, LargeCoin cannot guarantee that the C200 will solve Bitcoin blocks at a particular rate, or that it will generate a financial benefit of any kind. Mining profitability depends on a number of factors, including the selection of a mining pool, which may or may not charge fees that reduce the mining reward; changes in the Bitcoin mining reward calculation including but not limited to scheduled reductions in the mining reward; and fluctuations in difficulty factor. LargeCoin's warranties and guarantees extend only so far as the hashing rate provided by the appliance, and its level of average power consumption.

Are you producing them in the US or China?

Just wondering if you could deliver them in China without custom hassles...

[Brian DeLoach]

Pre-ordering didn't involve transfer of funds.

The preorder process simply involved giving name, address, and quantity. Then they would whip up an escrow agreement and a deposit would be held in escrow. That second part hasn't taken place, so nobody needs to do a chargeback.

My absolute best guess is that if someone did pre-order they have allready done a chargeback(hopefully they paid with some form of chargeback capable method)

[Clipse]

Pre-ordering didn't involve transfer of funds.

The preorder process simply involved giving name, address, and quantity. Then they would whip up an escrow agreement and a deposit would be held in escrow. That second part hasn't taken place, so nobody needs to do a chargeback.

My absolute best guess is that if someone did pre-order they have allready done a chargeback(hopefully they paid with some form of chargeback capable method)

So you and ttul together in this? You respond as if you are running this vapourware product. Again, he requested pre-order deposit to book a unit but Im pretty sure he got no takers on this piece of vapourware by-product since alot more people would have come here to post about their funds still held up in escrow or something.

[Meni Rosenfeld]

Pre-ordering didn't involve transfer of funds.

The preorder process simply involved giving name, address, and quantity. Then they would whip up an escrow agreement and a deposit would be held in escrow. That second part hasn't taken place, so nobody needs to do a chargeback.

My absolute best guess is that if someone did pre-order they have allready done a chargeback(hopefully they paid with some form of chargeback capable method)

So you and ttul together in this? You respond as if you are running this vapourware product. Again, he requested pre-order deposit to book a unit but Im pretty sure he got no takers on this piece of vapourware by-product since alot more people would have come here to post about their funds still held up in escrow or something.

I'm assuming Brian is one of the people who preordered. Naturally people who have preordered (including myself) will know a bit more about the process, such as the fact that a concrete request for a deposit hasn't come yet.

I think the quoted number of 31 preorders is very believable. As we said, nobody is complaining about funds held up in escrow because no funds were sent to escrow.

Now, I don't know shit about ASICs, but it's clear that with the 2 companies in question above (Butterfly Labs and LargeCoin) 1 of 2 possibilities MUST be correct:

1) Someone is COMPLTELY FULL OF SHIT in regards to performance/pricing (BFL).
2) Someone got a little TOO GREEDY and will end up missing the boat....(LC)

1. BFL has an incentive to exaggerate the announced specs, to discourage potential competitors and to encourage customers to buy current-gen hardware which can be traded-in. While BFL will certainly be capable of manufacturing the devices at the stated performance and marginal cost if and when they finish development (which could be in a long time), it will be a dubious business decision to offer at those prices. Sound pricing would be beating the competition decisively but no more than that.
2. LargeCoin has stated they're using sASIC which is the "least custom" ASIC. From BFL's words it seems they've put in more money and developing a more advanced type of ASIC. Also, their release time will be later in the future so the may be aiming for better process technologies.