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roomservice
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April 04, 2012, 05:35:37 AM
 #61

Hello Chaang Noi,

the time has come to finally withdraw my money from TyGrr-Bank.

Since my Sell Order for 2,400 Shares for 0.1 BTC each was not fullfilled over a couple of days now and your GLBSE account seems to be locked.

Please transfer my funds of 240 BTC to: 1KuGkqNBJxeDcygdiHoRtnrzt17odpa39m

After i received this amount, i'll send you back those 2,400 shares via GLBSE (indeed a very cool feature).


Here is a proof of my shares: http://s14.directupload.net/file/d/2850/6yvuzwow_png.htm

Well, if it's really necessary, my identity and stocks will be verified by Nefario. But since i trusted you a lot, in lending you money, this should not be an issue.

Remember our agreements from the start:
Quote
Each bond will be sold at .103 BTC and will be bought back at any time at .1 BTC.

Thanks for your support and best regards,

roomservice

"Tonight's the night. And it's going to happen again, and again. It has to happen. Nice night."
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roomservice
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April 04, 2012, 06:17:08 AM
 #62

Hello Chaang Noi,

the time has come to finally withdraw my money from TyGrr-Bank.

Since my Sell Order for 2,400 Shares for 0.1 BTC each was not fullfilled over a couple of days now and your GLBSE account seems to be locked.

Please transfer my funds of 240 BTC to: 1KuGkqNBJxeDcygdiHoRtnrzt17odpa39m

After i received this amount, i'll send you back those 2,400 shares via GLBSE (indeed a very cool feature).


Here is a proof of my shares: http://s14.directupload.net/file/d/2850/6yvuzwow_png.htm

Well, if it's really necessary, my identity and stocks will be verified by Nefario. But since i trusted you a lot, in lending you money, this should not be an issue.

Remember our agreements from the start:
Quote
Each bond will be sold at .103 BTC and will be bought back at any time at .1 BTC.

Thanks for your support and best regards,

roomservice

As soon as Nefario opens my account I will send you back the coin. I do not have access to the 500-1000BTC in the account. You might want to talk to him directly. Expect more information on how I will resolve this issue either tomorrow or the next day. Do not worry to much, I'm not going too take the money and run.

Thanks,


Alright, thanks for your quick feedback. In this case the market should cool down as well and stop selling shares below 0.1 btc on GLBSE.

"Tonight's the night. And it's going to happen again, and again. It has to happen. Nice night."
brendio
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April 04, 2012, 06:39:25 AM
 #63

The market is the market. 0.1 BTC today is worth more than 0.1 BTC tomorrow, or whenever it is if Goat and Nefario sort out their difference and goat resumes interest payments. Those not wanting to wait should expect to accept a haircut.

mila
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April 04, 2012, 07:53:20 AM
 #64

I hedge and I mine. I also hold over 2000 BTC. If BTC goes to $1,000,000 tomorrow I should still be able to cover everything. However in an extreme situation there might be some delay.

Those not wanting to wait should expect to accept a haircut.

I guess this qualifies as extreme situation : )

your ad here:
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April 04, 2012, 09:27:51 AM
 #65

In my opinion this is very bad for Goat.  He has left his shareholders down.  People are right for bailing on their shares.  He can't fulfill a simple request to verify himself.  I guess he must be hiding something. 
Nefario
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April 04, 2012, 09:47:27 AM
 #66

In my opinion this is very bad for Goat.  He has left his shareholders down.  People are right for bailing on their shares.  He can't fulfill a simple request to verify himself.  I guess he must be hiding something. 

Im going to put a time limit of a week on this, after a week if goat has not verified then I will close down all the shares and return what is left in his account (as he mentioned, about 1K BTC) to his shareholders. I will also approach him to repay the difference between what is in his account and what he owes shareholders.

Nefario.

PGP key id at pgp.mit.edu 0xA68F4B7C

To get help and support for GLBSE please email support@glbse.com
DeaDTerra
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April 04, 2012, 09:52:37 AM
 #67

In my opinion this is very bad for Goat.  He has left his shareholders down.  People are right for bailing on their shares.  He can't fulfill a simple request to verify himself.  I guess he must be hiding something. 

Im going to put a time limit of a week on this, after a week if goat has not verified then I will close down all the shares and return what is left in his account (as he mentioned, about 1K BTC) to his shareholders. I will also approach him to repay the difference between what is in his account and what he owes shareholders.

Nefario.
I think this is a really bad option Nefario, Goat has proven himself in the past and had has ID up before, give him some more time to respond to the ID request before taking any action.
//DeaDTerra
hashking
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April 04, 2012, 10:04:37 AM
 #68

In my opinion this is very bad for Goat.  He has left his shareholders down.  People are right for bailing on their shares.  He can't fulfill a simple request to verify himself.  I guess he must be hiding something. 

Im going to put a time limit of a week on this, after a week if goat has not verified then I will close down all the shares and return what is left in his account (as he mentioned, about 1K BTC) to his shareholders. I will also approach him to repay the difference between what is in his account and what he owes shareholders.

Nefario.
I think this is a really bad option Nefario, Goat has proven himself in the past and had has ID up before, give him some more time to respond to the ID request before taking any action.
//DeaDTerra

If it takes someone more then a week to scan their id and email it, then we have some serious problems. 
DeaDTerra
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April 04, 2012, 10:09:26 AM
 #69

In my opinion this is very bad for Goat.  He has left his shareholders down.  People are right for bailing on their shares.  He can't fulfill a simple request to verify himself.  I guess he must be hiding something. 

Im going to put a time limit of a week on this, after a week if goat has not verified then I will close down all the shares and return what is left in his account (as he mentioned, about 1K BTC) to his shareholders. I will also approach him to repay the difference between what is in his account and what he owes shareholders.

Nefario.
I think this is a really bad option Nefario, Goat has proven himself in the past and had has ID up before, give him some more time to respond to the ID request before taking any action.
//DeaDTerra

If it takes someone more then a week to scan their id and email it, then we have some serious problems. 
He already showed is ID before creating TyGrr, what he's worried about know as I understand it is the legality of GLBSE and that he could get sued or jailed do to his activities on GLBSE.  To shutdown all the shares after only one week seems like a bit radical solution. Just my opinion but I am a bit bias as I am a major shareholder almost all the TyGrr companies :8
//DeaDTerra
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April 04, 2012, 10:10:30 AM
 #70

Im going to put a time limit of a week on this, after a week if goat has not verified then I will close down all the shares and return what is left in his account (as he mentioned, about 1K BTC) to his shareholders. I will also approach him to repay the difference between what is in his account and what he owes shareholders.

Nefario.
I hadn't gotten around to mentioning this in the locked thread, but it is relevant now based on the posted action.  This quote from the GLBSE 2.0 thread:
This could use a little editing for grammar, spelling and clarity.

"We do however recognised that for some users prefer for this not to be the case."
 - http://glbse.com/asset/view/BTC

Woops, I'll fix that soon.

Also on the XML contracts, we're phasing them out now, over the next week I'll be adding the ability to edit the contract (which would require a vote to allow). So, with shareholder permission you'll be able to constantly keep them up to date.
and the full text from GLBSE 2.0:
Quote
It is important that the identity of the person who is selling this asset has been verified. We do however recognised that for some users prefer for this not to be the case. As a result we provide users with the information about the asset sellers identity to make the appropriate decision.
This doesn't look like it was written by someone who speaks any form of English as their primary language, and it lacks important grammar and punctuation.  However, my understanding of it was that it meant something like this:
Quote
We know you may want sellers to be verified, but this is optional.  You can choose not to buy assets from unverified issuers based on the information below.
You really need to edit this before you even consider taking any action like the one mentioned earlier in this thread (and quoted first in this post), and even then, considering the system was still worded like this well after Goat's account was locked, you need to be very cautious about any decision regarding his account.

Don't get me wrong, your resolution seems reasonable if he stops communicating completely or tells you to implement it as he will be abandoning GLBSE (in which case I would assume that he would certainly pay, but don't see how TyGrr [which actually has non-BTC assets involved] could be properly and fairly handled [whereas TyGrr-Bank and TyGrr-BOT are just bonds and as such should be possible to pay off at face value]).
Nefario
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April 04, 2012, 10:44:25 AM
 #71

Since his public announcement goat has not contacted me.

What to do if he sits there with his arms crossed?

Goat didn't care about the legality of using GLBSE when he started, so if any law has been broken it has already been so for months.

But seriously, what would you advise me to do if he doesn't comply or communicate the issue?

I'm open to suggestions.

PGP key id at pgp.mit.edu 0xA68F4B7C

To get help and support for GLBSE please email support@glbse.com
Nefario
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April 04, 2012, 11:24:45 AM
 #72

Quote from: Chaang Noi (Goat)
As I said in 24 to 48 hours I will have my response. If you can't wait that long, it is not my fault.
The last email I got from you was two days ago in which you informed me of how shocked you were of the lax security of GLBSE2.0

Since then you've decided to hold this entire thing in public.

You said this better than I could have, thank you.

His policy has gone from no verification, to voluntary verification to "if you don't send me your ID in a week all your assets and bitcoins get stolen" :/

Since December last year I have been warning GLBSE users and asset issuers that ID verification will be introduced for asset issuers, on a voluntary basis.

From our terms, that have included this for nearly a month.
Quote
We may at our discretion, ask asset creators to provide proof of identity, address, phone number and more, until we are sufficiently satisfied. Said information will be held securely offline and not shared with any third party. We reserve the right to freeze trading of the asset and the asset creators account for failure to provide requested details or in the event of suspected fraud.

Who is stealing?

PGP key id at pgp.mit.edu 0xA68F4B7C

To get help and support for GLBSE please email support@glbse.com
Nefario
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April 04, 2012, 11:49:10 AM
 #73

In my opinion this is very bad for Goat.  He has left his shareholders down.  People are right for bailing on their shares.  He can't fulfill a simple request to verify himself.  I guess he must be hiding something. 

Im going to put a time limit of a week on this, after a week if goat has not verified then I will close down all the shares and return what is left in his account (as he mentioned, about 1K BTC) to his shareholders. I will also approach him to repay the difference between what is in his account and what he owes shareholders.

Nefario.

How is this voluntary?   

When you take something that does not belong to you that is called stealing.

One of us clearly does not understand the meaning of key words.

That bitcoin belongs to your shareholders. And if you don't comply that is where it will be returned to.

PGP key id at pgp.mit.edu 0xA68F4B7C

To get help and support for GLBSE please email support@glbse.com
zapeta
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April 04, 2012, 11:52:15 AM
 #74

You said this better than I could have, thank you.

His policy has gone from no verification, to voluntary verification to "if you don't send me your ID in a week all your assets and bitcoins get stolen" :/

Since December last year I have been warning GLBSE users and asset issuers that ID verification will be introduced for asset issuers, on a voluntary basis.

So Nefario, you are violating the terms of your own site?  You haven't stopped the trading in any of the TyGrr assets.

Further, you can't really say it's voluntary - as your terms say, you can demand whatever until you are "sufficiently satisfied" - you can demand pictures of his dog if you want!  If verification is truly voluntary, you should unlock his account right now since he doesn't want to send you his personal information.  If it's not voluntary, stop pretending that it is and just state in your terms that asset creators must be verified.  If thats the case, you should lock all the non-verified asset creation accounts immediately.  Otherwise this is nothing more than an obvious crusade against Goat because he hurt your feelings.

This whole thing is ridiculous.  You are two grown men, and you'd think you'd be able to figure out some sort of compromise.  Meanwhile the investors in various TyGrr products sit here and watch our money circle the drain.  

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April 04, 2012, 11:57:06 AM
 #75

Goat, I think you should just show your id to Nefario.
You are causing too big a deal over nothing.
If your BTC gets distributed to us, then its a bad deal as we only get 0.02 per share, and you lose your bitcoins. Its a lose-lose situation.
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April 04, 2012, 12:04:45 PM
 #76

I see no violation of the terms. And can hardly believe Goat is still not complying. If I was a shareholder, my trust in him would be low now too.

It clearly states "We may at our discretion, ask asset creators to provide proof of identity, address, phone number and more, until we are sufficiently satisfied. Said information will be held securely offline and not shared with any third party. We reserve the right to freeze trading of the asset and the asset creators account for failure to provide requested details or in the event of suspected fraud."

He hasn’t failed yet or been suspected to be a fraudster by Nefario, has he?

So what exactly is the problem? Huh

"Bitcoin had been transformed from an anarachistic challenge to the financial status quo, to the crypto spawn of Satan, fuelled by cut-throat greed and delusions of avarice." - MatTheCat
"these people don't seem to want to stop till Bitcoin is completely destroyed and left like an old cum rag in the corner of the room." - ShroomsKit
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April 04, 2012, 12:05:29 PM
 #77

From our terms, that have included this for nearly a month.
Quote
We may at our discretion, ask asset creators to provide proof of identity, address, phone number and more, until we are sufficiently satisfied. Said information will be held securely offline and not shared with any third party. We reserve the right to freeze trading of the asset and the asset creators account for failure to provide requested details or in the event of suspected fraud.

Who is stealing?

Where is "Bitcoin Global" registered?


Not in Ireland - http://www.cro.ie/search/CompanySearch.aspx
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April 04, 2012, 12:09:08 PM
 #78

I see no violation of the terms. And can hardly believe Goat is still not complying.

It clearly states "We may at our discretion, ask asset creators to provide proof of identity, address, phone number and more, until we are sufficiently satisfied. Said information will be held securely offline and not shared with any third party. We reserve the right to freeze trading of the asset and the asset creators account for failure to provide requested details or in the event of suspected fraud."

He hasn’t failed yet or been suspected to be a fraudster by Nefario, has he?

So what exactly is the problem? Huh

Because the term were changed less than a month and most likely weren't communicated to customers. He can change terms tomorrow at his will.
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April 04, 2012, 12:10:30 PM
 #79

I see no violation of the terms. And can hardly believe Goat is still not complying.

It clearly states "We may at our discretion, ask asset creators to provide proof of identity, address, phone number and more, until we are sufficiently satisfied. Said information will be held securely offline and not shared with any third party. We reserve the right to freeze trading of the asset and the asset creators account for failure to provide requested details or in the event of suspected fraud."

He hasn’t failed yet or been suspected to be a fraudster by Nefario, has he?

So what exactly is the problem? Huh

Because the term were changed less than a month and most likely weren't communicated to customers. He can change terms tomorrow at his will.

"These terms and conditions are subject to change without notice."

You have agreed to that too.

"Bitcoin had been transformed from an anarachistic challenge to the financial status quo, to the crypto spawn of Satan, fuelled by cut-throat greed and delusions of avarice." - MatTheCat
"these people don't seem to want to stop till Bitcoin is completely destroyed and left like an old cum rag in the corner of the room." - ShroomsKit
Raoul Duke
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April 04, 2012, 12:14:19 PM
 #80

The ones defending Goat and his immaturity will all be scammed... And I won't feel sorry for them.

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