★[ANN] [NAV] NAV COIN - Community Fund Live!!!

[eXtatiC]

When anon full nodes will be available. Im gonna make a script for an automatic implementation of it. 

When full nodes will be available? Any dates?

[brownmon]

NAV is an anonymous coin. That is what is actually known for in the outside world. The fact that NAV has faster transactions than Bitcoin and its other advantages are not really seen as NAVs main features by the outside world. And I guess other coins out there also have faster transactions than Bitcoin. So summarized, NAVs strength is anonimity. Yes, anonimity is nice sometimes. But lets be honest here ... do you really care government knows you bought 2 bananas, 1 apple and an icecream in your local store ? Do you really care if government knows you ordered new pants in an online store ? In case of online stores ... does it really matter if Bitcoin takes 30 minutes to arrive if the delivery of the pants takes 2-5 days (the 30 minutes are actually irrelevant as your order is known immediately when you push PURCHASE button) ? I don't think that most people would have problems with that.

What is the main advantage of an anonymous coin ? To hide what you bought and from who. When are people interested in this: tax avoidance and black markets. The only exception I know is maybe people wanting to hide they bought gold/silver or if they maybe paid for sexual services.

I am not saying that I don't value privacy of my purchases, even if I buy pineapples and yoghurt. But I doubt many people really care a lot about that. Merchants will probably prefer it to hide they sold something so they don't need to pay taxes on it. I think that if you really believe that NAV will mainly be used for honest activities than I think you are not being realistic. Why would I need any other crypto other than Bitcoin to buy groceries ? People are using Bitcoin right now to buy coffee in a cafe despite Bitcoins transaction taking 30 minutes. If I read your reply I have the feeling you want to compete against Bitcoin and win the fight. But I don't think that is the right path to go. Overtaking Bitcoin is almost impossible.

I am not claiming I am right and I am always open to change my mind about this. But then I need strong arguments which at this moment I didn't come up with one yet.

It's not only to hide from governments; it's to hide from neighbours, insurers, workmates.  Do you want your flight to cost more because the airline can see you make more money?

Do you want your insurer to know what you buy and who you associate with?  (Facebook stopped an insurance company from giving discounts for revealing one's Facebook account recently, but probably only because that's a service they want companies to pay Facebook for -- They have data scientists working on it and patents for it.)

Do you want potential employers to know how much you make in your present job?  Do you want your present employer to see how much you made in your previous jobs?

Seems like it's something that would put one at a disadvantage in any kind of negotiation.

[Diego24]

It's not only to hide from governments; it's to hide from neighbours, insurers, workmates.  Do you want your flight to cost more because the airline can see you make more money?

Do you want your insurer to know what you buy and who you associate with?  (Facebook stopped an insurance company from giving discounts for revealing one's Facebook account recently, but probably only because that's a service they want companies to pay Facebook for -- They have data scientists working on it and patents for it.)

Do you want potential employers to know how much you make in your present job?  Do you want your present employer to see how much you made in your previous jobs?

Seems like it's something that would put one at a disadvantage in any kind of negotiation.

You see ... this is the first time I got a real argument that makes sense. Most of the other arguments were just fanboy arguments (not bad intended). I think it is important to stay critical and really come up with convincing arguments. People are not going to use something if they are not convinced. In theory I could care less that they know I bought coffee. But if they are going to spam my gmail or youtube accounts with coffee adds I am not interested in, well then suddenly I might be interested to keep my activities secret. And this is the kind of message that needs to reach to the people. Only then people can get convinced to use it.

Thanks for these arguments, brownman !

[aristokrat]

Can any DEV shortly explain, why NAV is better choice than Monero and Dash, when it comes to anonymous transactions? We all know that anon is good for privacy. Even Edward Snowden recommend encryption and vpn use...

[shahim]

Can any DEV shortly explain, why NAV is better choice than Monero and Dash, when it comes to anonymous transactions? We all know that anon is good for privacy. Even Edward Snowden recommend encryption and vpn use...

Hi,

May I answer with a question?  Have you taken a look at each technology and compared?

I just asked because we had many discussions about this where I had the feeling people just throw around with keywords like masternodes and ring signatures and don't really know what behind this.

Mixing service is proofen to lay a fork on the transaction. But with time and afford you can unmix.

This is a good read about Monero
http://www.trustnodes.com/is-monero-really-anonymous

And here you can see the problems they are dealing with:

https://lab.getmonero.org/pubs/MRL-0001.pdf

Also a good read when you are interested. So far we can proudly say that nobody was able to brake nav anon and gain the bounty!  And we had some real good people trying it last year.

Regards
Shahim

[mogrith]

Decemberish

When anon full nodes will be available. Im gonna make a script for an automatic implementation of it. 

When full nodes will be available? Any dates?

[Diego24]

Can any DEV shortly explain, why NAV is better choice than Monero and Dash, when it comes to anonymous transactions? We all know that anon is good for privacy. Even Edward Snowden recommend encryption and vpn use...

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/govt-realized-bitcoin-not-shut-says-u-s-federal-prosecutor/

In further portions of the interview, Haun stated that mixers and tumblers, which aim to obfuscate transactions, “were not that great, did not tumble or mix as well as advertised” and, “some of the time” allowed investigators to “unscramble” transactions.

This is how Monero and Dash work.

[mogrith]

There is a bounty http://navcoin.org/bounty if you can can successfully trace a transaction routed through the NAV anonymous network. To be eligible to receive the bounty, we have to be able to reproduce your findings. If you think you've cracked the code, email your results to navbounty@gmail.com.

send NAV with anontech to faucet as an example

[Diego24]

There is a bounty http://navcoin.org/bounty if you can can successfully trace a transaction routed through the NAV anonymous network. To be eligible to receive the bounty, we have to be able to reproduce your findings. If you think you've cracked the code, email your results to navbounty@gmail.com.

send NAV with anontech to faucet as an example

What do you mean with tracing ? Is it ok to just know which address sent to the other one or do you also need to find out the amount that was sent ?

[mogrith]

Just a reminder that NAV can be traded on Bitsquare.

You can link your offer to a % of current Poloniex price or a fixed amount

like polo price - 2% or .00005900BTC/NAV with linked price you don't need to delete and remake offers

Also this is not a central server your BTC or coins are kept in your local bitsquare app until actual trade is made.  No one can 'hack' or use  owner access to steal coins. TX is P2P over TOR  my Bitsquare app talks to your app. With Tor ISP monitoring of usage is much harder.

You can use anontech to fund bitsquare NAV account

[Diego24]

There is a bounty http://navcoin.org/bounty if you can can successfully trace a transaction routed through the NAV anonymous network. To be eligible to receive the bounty, we have to be able to reproduce your findings. If you think you've cracked the code, email your results to navbounty@gmail.com.

send NAV with anontech to faucet as an example

Can't you trace a transaction by looking at its timestamp if volume of transactions isn't that high ?

[shahim]

There is a bounty http://navcoin.org/bounty if you can can successfully trace a transaction routed through the NAV anonymous network. To be eligible to receive the bounty, we have to be able to reproduce your findings. If you think you've cracked the code, email your results to navbounty@gmail.com.

send NAV with anontech to faucet as an example

Can't you trace a transaction by looking at its timestamp if volume of transactions isn't that high ?

Show us how you do it.

[Diego24]

There is a bounty http://navcoin.org/bounty if you can can successfully trace a transaction routed through the NAV anonymous network. To be eligible to receive the bounty, we have to be able to reproduce your findings. If you think you've cracked the code, email your results to navbounty@gmail.com.

send NAV with anontech to faucet as an example

Can't you trace a transaction by looking at its timestamp if volume of transactions isn't that high ?

Show us how you do it.

It was just a question I had because I read an article a few weeks ago that claimed this was an issue for anon coins . I am not a cryptographic and network expert so I can't investigate it  . But it might be worth to think about it and whether it is possible.

The problem is that I am not a network and blockchain expert so I don't know what is possible for a government. Maybe they can first make a lot of anon transactions themselves and based on that determine incoming and outgoing servers addresses. Then they could log all trafic going to this anon network and see which computer sent it. If they combine this info with timestamp and NAV blockchain info, then they know which computer sent to the anon network at that moment. And if there is only 1 outgoing transaction at the same time, and they trace that packet than they know both send and receiver ... no ? I am just trying to understand the article I read. I think if this would really be a problem, it can still be solved easily by just queueing until enough transactions arrived and then shuffle the order in which you sent them out.

But anyway, let me know if I am making sense here or if things that I assume cannot technically be realized by a government. Always interested in learning more about technology 

[mogrith]

This is a good non tech overview of what is anon tech and how it works
http://cryptocereal.com/navs-new-white-paper-the-cheat-sheet/

the white paper is the details
http://www.navcoin.org/files/navtech-whitepaper-beta-v0.9.pdf

is there a updated one? or should it be renamed it's not beta anymore.

[DragonBall Fan]

Just a reminder that NAV can be traded on Bitsquare.

You can link your offer to a % of current Poloniex price or a fixed amount

like polo price - 2% or .00005900BTC/NAV with linked price you don't need to delete and remake offers

Also this is not a central server your BTC or coins are kept in your local bitsquare app until actual trade is made.  No one can 'hack' or use  owner access to steal coins. TX is P2P over TOR  my Bitsquare app talks to your app. With Tor ISP monitoring of usage is much harder.

You can use anontech to fund bitsquare NAV account

Thanks I will test it if I have time

[hashforce101]

It's not only to hide from governments; it's to hide from neighbours, insurers, workmates.  Do you want your flight to cost more because the airline can see you make more money?

Do you want your insurer to know what you buy and who you associate with?  (Facebook stopped an insurance company from giving discounts for revealing one's Facebook account recently, but probably only because that's a service they want companies to pay Facebook for -- They have data scientists working on it and patents for it.)

Do you want potential employers to know how much you make in your present job?  Do you want your present employer to see how much you made in your previous jobs?

Seems like it's something that would put one at a disadvantage in any kind of negotiation.

You see ... this is the first time I got a real argument that makes sense. Most of the other arguments were just fanboy arguments (not bad intended). I think it is important to stay critical and really come up with convincing arguments. People are not going to use something if they are not convinced. In theory I could care less that they know I bought coffee. But if they are going to spam my gmail or youtube accounts with coffee adds I am not interested in, well then suddenly I might be interested to keep my activities secret. And this is the kind of message that needs to reach to the people. Only then people can get convinced to use it.

Thanks for these arguments, brownman !

The argument is simple. You don’t care if you're coffee purchase is tracked. I do care if my coffee purchase is tracked.
Bitcoin does not give you the option. NAVCoin does give you the option

This is nothing about being a fan boy

It's about bringing Anonimity to a Decentralized Economy which should be equal to a Anonymous Centralized
Banking System

Decentralization is a key goal of the foundation of crypto Currencies and to help bring about better wealth distribution

I know you are new to Crypto and a Novice . Read about Decentralization v Centralization. Once you understand this your first question will be.

Where's the Privacy

Then ask yourself if Bitcoin was the only choice in a Decentralized system where is the Fundamental fairness Compared to a Centralised system.

I hope the argument or question is not to advanced but that is in its simpleist form

Once you understand Decentralization v Centralization you will find Bitcoin fails to full fill what all democratic people take as normal standards

[pakage]

Coin Payments have started to setup Nav Coin and it should become available as soon as their servers have synced the block chain.

Thanks so much for all your votes. Soon you will be able to make online purchases with Nav and implement it in your own online stores. Watch this space!

Hi Nav Coiners,

We've been added to the public coin vote for coinpayments.net. Coin Payments is very similar to Bit Pay, but it allows payments in over 50 alt-coins. If we get added to this platform, Nav Coin will be instantly integrated into over 75000 online stores as a payment option. If you have any spare BTC and would like to see NAV merchant tools, please cast your votes. If we get to 1000 Votes we get automatically added.

Coin Payments

Integrated payment gateway for cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin and Litecoin. Over 75,500 vendors across 182 different countries

https://www.coinpayments.net/vote

I have personally donated 366 votes (0.366 BTC). If you have any dust lying around, please buy us some more votes! They actually give the raised funds to charity and their faucet, so its also a good cause.

Cheers,
Craig.

[hashforce101]

I will Create a NAVCoin Debate & Knowledge shareing Channel on NAVCoin Slack .
Dedicated to NAVCoin vs Other currencies .Where you can share your true beliefs ,thoughts and comments you agree or disagree with or even ask a Novice question.
The Bitcointalk.org forum does not facilitate debating well

The NAVCoin Slack Channel operates like instant messaging. So a conversation can be done in real time
You can use a Gmail or Hotmail account to register and join

Send me a PM with your email to register

HaShForce101

Awesome work on Coin Payments.

[hashforce101]

#NAVCoin - Debate Channel is now Running
NAV COIN Slack Channel
Debate to the Max
135 members already  

[Exelsior]

Please watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luvthTjC0OI

This ted talk provides a different perspective on the dark net. I hope NAV does not hold back into thinking otherwise.