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Question: Do you Accept Komodo ICO conversion vs Reject Komodo ICO conversion and fund new dev team?
Accept - 134 (69.4%)
Reject - 59 (30.6%)
Total Voters: 193

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Author Topic: [ANN] BitcoinDark (BTCD)--Financial_Privacy/SuperNET_Core/InstantDEX/PAX/Divs  (Read 1308284 times)
bitkokos2
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September 06, 2016, 05:35:36 PM
 #10281



P.S. I must say though, it looks like community have zero voice here. I see nothing changed on the future plans in 6 days. Everything was decided for us. We will go where they want us to go. What other options do we have? (besides sitting on a bunch of soon-to-be useless BTCDs or selling for 1/2 price it will probably be in 3 months). James, you were the biggest "free market", "financial freedom" person(s) I have seen for awhile. Now this, a dictatorship.  Sad
That could have being the best option as JL says, but at this very moment I am inclined to exit my entire BTCD-KMD position after KMD is on the exchange.
I do feel this all fundraising thing could have being handled much better without touching BTCD price or high hopes people had for it.

And yes, yes, I can sell if I want to. Thank you.

I totally agree with you.
The worst thing for me is that I told some friends about BTCD 2 years ago and they gave me money to buy BTCD for them.
Think how I will feel tonight where I will go for beers and tell them the bad news.

Team most of the times was creating polls on bitcointalk and people/investors were voting for the future of the development. Now, all we got 5 days ago, was a hello, we change everything the way we like and your investments are going to become ICO.

Wow, poor baby. Your life is over. You'll never get rich now. I assume you have proof that komodo will fail, will be worth less then ico, etc. Basically you sound like most of the people on the show " the profit" with marcas lamonas. You seem to think that your bigger slice of a much smaller market is worth more then a smaller slice of a much much larger market.

Sentiment can change instantly especially if iguana is relased prior to ico.



A few days ago you said, ICO is a good way to scam.
"Find yourself a good way to scam. Ico's seem to do well. "
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September 06, 2016, 05:40:40 PM
 #10282



P.S. I must say though, it looks like community have zero voice here. I see nothing changed on the future plans in 6 days. Everything was decided for us. We will go where they want us to go. What other options do we have? (besides sitting on a bunch of soon-to-be useless BTCDs or selling for 1/2 price it will probably be in 3 months). James, you were the biggest "free market", "financial freedom" person(s) I have seen for awhile. Now this, a dictatorship.  Sad
That could have being the best option as JL says, but at this very moment I am inclined to exit my entire BTCD-KMD position after KMD is on the exchange.
I do feel this all fundraising thing could have being handled much better without touching BTCD price or high hopes people had for it.

And yes, yes, I can sell if I want to. Thank you.

I totally agree with you.
The worst thing for me is that I told some friends about BTCD 2 years ago and they gave me money to buy BTCD for them.
Think how I will feel tonight where I will go for beers and tell them the bad news.

Team most of the times was creating polls on bitcointalk and people/investors were voting for the future of the development. Now, all we got 5 days ago, was a hello, we change everything the way we like and your investments are going to become ICO.

Wow, poor baby. Your life is over. You'll never get rich now. I assume you have proof that komodo will fail, will be worth less then ico, etc. Basically you sound like most of the people on the show " the profit" with marcas lamonas. You seem to think that your bigger slice of a much smaller market is worth more then a smaller slice of a much much larger market.

Sentiment can change instantly especially if iguana is relased prior to ico.


Don't assume people are idiots here, some definitely are .., but Bitkokos was here for a long time and as part of the BTCD community has the right to say what he thinks.
As to bigger market, how big WAVES are? We know iguana will be released, it sure looks like it will, disappointment comes from understanding that we all hoped it will be BTCD-only project with all the income and tech goodies, and we all were wrong. Apparently all this time BTCD was just another pet project for James.
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September 06, 2016, 05:44:08 PM
 #10283

FYI one of the latest screeshots of Iguana gui:


◈▣ KOMODO ● Set Your Ideas Free ▣◈
.......AN ECOSYSTEM FOR NATIVE BLOCKCHAINS.......
Blockchain Generator | Decentralized Crowdfunding | Decentralized Exchange | Bitcoin Security | Zero-Knowledge Proofs | Blockchain Interoperability | Scalable Infrastructure
bitkokos2
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September 06, 2016, 05:49:27 PM
 #10284

Iguana is dedicated to Chrome users. Not everybody.
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September 06, 2016, 05:54:22 PM
 #10285

Iguana is dedicated to Chrome users. Not everybody.

No, stand alone versions for Win, Linux, Mac. Chrome app is just a lite variant

◈▣ KOMODO ● Set Your Ideas Free ▣◈
.......AN ECOSYSTEM FOR NATIVE BLOCKCHAINS.......
Blockchain Generator | Decentralized Crowdfunding | Decentralized Exchange | Bitcoin Security | Zero-Knowledge Proofs | Blockchain Interoperability | Scalable Infrastructure
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September 06, 2016, 07:00:57 PM
 #10286

Iguana is dedicated to Chrome users. Not everybody.

Do you even read the Komodo thread? The whole thread? With all the detailed answers and explanations from James? Really interesting.

It seems you miss something. Just as with your "knowledge" about Iguana.  Roll Eyes
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September 06, 2016, 07:03:26 PM
 #10287

SuperNET was the coolest thing back in the 2014 or something. I hope it will become something in the future.

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September 06, 2016, 07:04:51 PM
 #10288

As an investor I dont like the way u guys handled this, no notice of these plans whatsoever untill too late is how i feel! If I would have known this before I bought btcd, I would have found another project. 10 weeks of waiting for gains from 400k buyin and get 532074? to me this is shitting on especially investors who have been loyal to btcd for years.
As soon as i can see abit of profit, im done supporting this coin, but good luck on the project, so I guess I have abit more for Zcash then Undecided

So you bought at 400k, nearly 30% instant profit for 10 weeks is too long to wait? Iguana has been in dev for 2 years....

How about me? I bought at 1380k. I am down by 73% where James told me 2 years ago, I am in the right place now.
Will he give me condolences for my loss again?
Out of a sudden, my BTCD should be converted into an ICO coin (and we all know the future of ICO coins and who gains what) otherwise I will be left with BTCD with no future. On the other hand i see some people trying to raise 30,000BTC
And yes, I know the usual answer. I am free to sell all of my BTCD, nobody told me to invest and I should go away AKA F... off if I don't like that.


LTC has been dead coin walking for a while. Condolences for your loss. At least you are in the right place now
ignore the ups and downs until something fundamental changes, eg. black helicopters get me, unless something like that happens BTCD will keep getting more and more tech. I have 40,000 lines of code ready to be integrated in and another 50,000 lines waiting in the wings, actually a lot more but most of it I improved and no need for the second best versions of stuff

James

Serious? haha. Laughable. You just made James responsible for your lack of risk and money management? Do you know terms like "Stop Loss"?

EDIT: When i say "jump from the bridge" you also follow? I mean, we are adults, we are responsible for our actions by ourself. Aren´t we?
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September 06, 2016, 07:10:07 PM
 #10289

Iguana is dedicated to Chrome users. Not everybody.

Do you even read the Komodo thread? The whole thread? With all the detailed answers and explanations from James? Really interesting.

It seems you miss something. Just as with your "knowledge" about Iguana.  Roll Eyes

Yes, it seems I missed a lot. Mostly because I stopped reading what James writes.
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September 06, 2016, 07:11:10 PM
 #10290

Calm down and read it. It´s worth!
bitkokos2
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September 06, 2016, 07:18:39 PM
 #10291

As an investor I dont like the way u guys handled this, no notice of these plans whatsoever untill too late is how i feel! If I would have known this before I bought btcd, I would have found another project. 10 weeks of waiting for gains from 400k buyin and get 532074? to me this is shitting on especially investors who have been loyal to btcd for years.
As soon as i can see abit of profit, im done supporting this coin, but good luck on the project, so I guess I have abit more for Zcash then Undecided

So you bought at 400k, nearly 30% instant profit for 10 weeks is too long to wait? Iguana has been in dev for 2 years....

How about me? I bought at 1380k. I am down by 73% where James told me 2 years ago, I am in the right place now.
Will he give me condolences for my loss again?
Out of a sudden, my BTCD should be converted into an ICO coin (and we all know the future of ICO coins and who gains what) otherwise I will be left with BTCD with no future. On the other hand i see some people trying to raise 30,000BTC
And yes, I know the usual answer. I am free to sell all of my BTCD, nobody told me to invest and I should go away AKA F... off if I don't like that.


LTC has been dead coin walking for a while. Condolences for your loss. At least you are in the right place now
ignore the ups and downs until something fundamental changes, eg. black helicopters get me, unless something like that happens BTCD will keep getting more and more tech. I have 40,000 lines of code ready to be integrated in and another 50,000 lines waiting in the wings, actually a lot more but most of it I improved and no need for the second best versions of stuff

James

Serious? haha. Laughable. You just made James responsible for your lack of risk and money management? Do you know terms like "Stop Loss"?

EDIT: When i say "jump from the bridge" you also follow? I mean, we are adults, we are responsible for our actions by ourself. Aren´t we?

No, actually I listened to James when he told me not to invest in one or two coins and I didn't only invest in his own coin.
Fortunately I bought VPN coin which went up by 5000% Bought at 76 sat, sold at 4900.
And no, I didn't made James responsible. The decision was mine.
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September 06, 2016, 07:42:11 PM
 #10292

As an investor I dont like the way u guys handled this, no notice of these plans whatsoever untill too late is how i feel! If I would have known this before I bought btcd, I would have found another project. 10 weeks of waiting for gains from 400k buyin and get 532074? to me this is shitting on especially investors who have been loyal to btcd for years.
As soon as i can see abit of profit, im done supporting this coin, but good luck on the project, so I guess I have abit more for Zcash then Undecided

So you bought at 400k, nearly 30% instant profit for 10 weeks is too long to wait? Iguana has been in dev for 2 years....

How about me? I bought at 1380k. I am down by 73% where James told me 2 years ago, I am in the right place now.
Will he give me condolences for my loss again?
Out of a sudden, my BTCD should be converted into an ICO coin (and we all know the future of ICO coins and who gains what) otherwise I will be left with BTCD with no future. On the other hand i see some people trying to raise 30,000BTC
And yes, I know the usual answer. I am free to sell all of my BTCD, nobody told me to invest and I should go away AKA F... off if I don't like that.


LTC has been dead coin walking for a while. Condolences for your loss. At least you are in the right place now
ignore the ups and downs until something fundamental changes, eg. black helicopters get me, unless something like that happens BTCD will keep getting more and more tech. I have 40,000 lines of code ready to be integrated in and another 50,000 lines waiting in the wings, actually a lot more but most of it I improved and no need for the second best versions of stuff

James

Serious? haha. Laughable. You just made James responsible for your lack of risk and money management? Do you know terms like "Stop Loss"?

EDIT: When i say "jump from the bridge" you also follow? I mean, we are adults, we are responsible for our actions by ourself. Aren´t we?

I hope you realize that if btcd supportes would have used a stop loss strategy the price would probaly be in the pennies?

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September 06, 2016, 09:41:23 PM
 #10293

Komodo ICO: Questions and Answers


https://steemit.com/komodo/@komodoplatform/komodo-ico-questions-and-answers

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September 06, 2016, 11:00:49 PM
 #10294

And please understand I am not fudding, I am truly wishing mind-bugging success for KMD for obvious reasons. But as someone said before, BTCD community was a huge part of all this process for years and overall disappointment leads me to a suspicion that most of current BTCD holders will be quitting after ICO, thus permanently dropping price. I also understand that team will be there with fresh ICO BTC, but entire situation looks bad and I am certainly was not expecting James with "almost finished product" to do something like that.

Why couldn't you guys just make BTCD a rev-share asset with noticeable % without touching price caps, transfers, abandoning genuine blockchain, and all that ugly stuff community is raging about? Lunch KMD as you wish, and do rev-share income auto-send BTCD (@ current market price) daily into the wallets. It was done already, why not increase it?

Not sure if this at least partly addresses your concerns:

Quote
Do I get both: the revenue asset and Komodo coins?
Yes, every BTCD holder will get both Komodo and the revenue asset.
One week after the snapshot the swapping will begin. It is not even possible to do the swap before the snapshot.

https://steemit.com/komodo/@komodoplatform/komodo-ico-questions-and-answers
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September 06, 2016, 11:20:46 PM
 #10295

Hello, do you have mental issues, by any chance?

Anything to say about BTCD?  When is something going to be finished?  

Pangea Poker is already late, but we don't know why.

BBR is a "core coin" in name only.  There is zero integration with the rest of SuperNet.

jl777 keeps launching new projects but never completes anything.

This feature bloat is getting old, and starting to look like a scamming technique to string us along.

Update:

Pangea - lol nope

BBR - abandonware

SuperNet - ditto

jl777 - launching a new project (Kodomo), never completed BTCD

everyone who called me troll for informing the community this outcome was 100% predictable and obvious to anyone with a brain - #R3KT

The most reprehensible part of it was ICOscam777 trying to silence my voice of well-founded (and ultimately correct) warning.


I view all of Icebreaker's posts against this as a nuisance and considering his lack of contributions toward BTCD his complaint has no weight. Further, even after repeated requests to stop posting the same thing over and over, he persists. In fact, it has come to light that he is doing this in other coin's threads also. It is almost as if there is some sort of organized campaign against coins that he views as competitive with his chosen coin.

There probably isnt any forum rule against some sort of organized campaign to squelch others, but in case there is, I would like to invoke it to make icebreaker stop.

James

"Make icebreaker stop" is the new "Leave Brittany Alone!"

 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy


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"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
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"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
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September 06, 2016, 11:26:01 PM
 #10296

@ICEBREAKER, I am not calling you a troll, but, you have just received a nice place in my ignore list.  Cheesy
It was about time.

Fasten your seat belt and Enjoy your stay!  Grin
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September 06, 2016, 11:31:30 PM
 #10297

when is he going to finish somthing? finish somthing for once!!

If you had put the time and effort into investigating wht is going on behind the scenes you would not ask such a question imo.
I feel you are not in for the long run, just to make a quick buck on a trade.
I for one have huge respect for james and his work and seeing the enormous amount of work and effort he is putting into superNET/BTCD I just know it is worth the wait.

"Worth the wait?"

LOL, no it wasn't.  Not even jlICOscam777 was "in for the long run."   Tongue

You owe ULALA an apology.


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"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
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September 07, 2016, 02:55:15 AM
 #10298

iCEBREAKER,

Pangea is on the back burner until iguana is done.
BBR - This shows how ignorant you are. James is not even the dev of that coin.
SuperNet is being actively worked on.

Just as a house needs solid foundations, so does a solid crypto tech. This takes time and dedication.






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iCEBREAKER
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September 07, 2016, 04:59:39 AM
 #10299

iCEBREAKER,

Pangea is on the back burner until iguana is done.
BBR - This shows how ignorant you are. James is not even the dev of that coin.
SuperNet is being actively worked on.

Just as a house needs solid foundations, so does a solid crypto tech. This takes time and dedication.

Pangea investors were not told in advance their project would be relegated to the back burner, just as BTCD buyers were not told their project would be abandoned for some shiny new ICO get-rich-quick thing.

SuperNet is being actively abandoned, not "worked on."

jlICOscam777'S projects have had plenty of time.  It's been over 2 years.  But there is a total lack of dedication.

The only dedication I see is dedication to never finishing anything and running off to make more ICO scam money.


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September 07, 2016, 06:44:39 AM
 #10300

There is a lot of misunderstanding about basically everything, from the finances to the tech. Please read the following links to get up to speed:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1605144.msg16149001#msg16149001

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1605144.msg16171231#msg16171231

For some reason the BTCD community feels entitled to 100% of all the results from all the work I have done and what SuperNET has paid for. How much has BTCD community actually donated to me or SuperNET for iguana?

Answer: 0

I know people have put money into the BTCD, I have too, but that doesnt pay for the expenses. I am working without getting paid, but it turns out that few others are willing to do that and servers they always cost money.

There is actually the ability for me to stop volunteering my time for BTCD and just say goodbye, and use the GPL codebase in any other project. Now that would be a betrayal, even if I refunded all the BTCD funds I received for all the development work: 0

So maybe the price will go up after the iguana release, or maybe the 'buy the rumor sell the news' crowd will sell and the price goes down. The market is unpredictable so it is hard to base future expenses based on potential market prices. Plus to take advantage of any price increase, BTCD would need to be sold and after that, then what?

The reality is that if I came begging for 500 BTC to fund expenses, it would have brought in how much? With effort we probably could have raised 10,000 BTCD or so. However, that means I need to stop coding and become a fund raiser? And how long does the 10,000 BTCD last, especially if it has to be sold to pay for expenses?

Also, the full solution with BTC fees and notary nodes would have ongoing costs and I would need 10 years worth to make sure it is funded for long enough to get self-sustaining revenues from transaction fees. With 500 BTC as the max possible that could be raised and likely much less, this means BTCD could not afford dPoW.

However dPoW is needed for the full SuperNET solution of interoperating chains loosely coupled via atomic swaps. The reason is weak chains are too insecure for storing large amounts of funds, so it is not a viable long term solution.

SuperNET investors have put in thousands of BTC worth of crypto and if you read the link above, you will see that it hasnt been exactly the carefree path of infinite money. To have to pay for operating expenses from portfolio gains is ok in a bull market, but what happens when this bull market gets tired?

If there are no more trading gains, then even the SuperNET workforce becomes reduced back to just me.

Contrary to the FUD there has NOT been dozens of ICOs for all the assets. Most of them were dividended out for free to establish a trading market, no funds were raised from any ICO type of sales for anything other than SuperNET which operates as a hybrid fund. I have paid more for pangea assets than I have received from selling it. So without this fantasy ICO funds from all the assets, many of which are projects from other devs, where does the money come from?

I could have come here and asked for thousands of BTC, but instead I designed the komodo ICO to allow a decent conversion into the ICO. A smaller piece of a larger pie.

yet, the feeling is that there is some giant betrayal that there is a fixed price conversion into komodo. In order to offer a conversion right, there has to be some sort of fixed price. In order to get a market based price uncontaminated by the ICO knowledge, we used a 50% bonus from trailing month. Not perfect, but better than any alternatives that exist.

That was my assessment. However maybe I was wrong and the community prefers to not have a conversion right for the ICO? That seemed like nonsense, so I didnt even bother investigating such things.

Maybe one way to look at it is that instead of having to come up with new funding to pay for expenses, the contribution from BTCD is to convert into the komodo?

Is that really too much to ask for?

I have asked for some solution to the "unfairness" to long term holders and finally there was a post with a possible solution:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1605144.msg16170817#msg16170817

people have expected me to do everything as evidenced by the lack of active contributions. how many of you have installed iguana? tested it? helped in any active way?

That is fine, I dont complain. I do what I have to do, but it does take longer if I am the only one doing things. (I do get help from the SuperNET project, which is paying for servers, testers, config managment and GUI devs). But that means I am forced to make executive decisions and in this case knowledge of the future would have contaminated the result. I decide that is not the right way.

Some have said it is in BTCD holder's interest to have the komodo ICO raise as little as possible. If you understand tech, then you will realize that is not the case at all, as without enough funding, BTCD might end up with 80%+ of komodo, but there wont be enough funds to properly do dPoW and pay for continued development.

It is a fine balance, if the terms are too preferential to BTCD holders, then it is against ICO investors. As a large BTCD holder, I had to err on the side of being conservative to avoid conflict of interest and maybe I went a bit too far, though using what is near the 1 year all time high price and 50% premium doesnt seem such a big sacrifice.

That being said, I am open to a bonus payment to long time BTCD holders based on a community agreed formula and data as per the third link above. If the community cannot agree on how to allocate any bonus, then I certainly dont feel that I can just decide it after the reaction to my recent decision.

Now the bonus would be earned only at the higher end of the ICO result as clearly if no funds come in and BTCD already ends up with all of komodo it makes no sense to bonus out more. However, until I get an idea of whether the community can even agree to any bonus plan, I really cant make any decisions. The bonus amount would come out of the 10% reserved for ICO expenses.

Remember there is also the revshare asset snapshot, so it is not like I have neglected the BTCD, I had to make a determination of a fair exchange rate to be able to offer an exchange. If the requirement to have an exchange to komodo is removed, then this problem goes away. I have been and continue to work on my single project, which is to create the tech that allows crypto to go mainstream. I have done my best to enable BTCD -> komodo to be a key part of this solution at a decent conversion price. It seems many do not like this at all and so I am open to alternate proposals.

If the BTCD community does not want this future path, then we need to figure out an alternate plan. I can help bring a new dev team up to speed to take over the BTCD 1.0 development without dPoW and LP nodes, but of course the community would need to find/fund such a dev team.

What is needed is a solution and not just a general complaint of unfairness.

Let me know what you decide, I will honor the community decision. And if there is any alternate solution that solves the issues presented, of course I am open to that.

James



http://www.digitalcatallaxy.com/report2015.html
100+ page annual report for SuperNET
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