BTCD is no more

[Azeh]

BitcoinDark Slack Logs (4/16-4/23)

btcddev (sprnt)BOT 8:18 AM
@crackers: what was the btcd payout?
crackers (sprnt)BOT 8:19 AM
still come coins running through the exchanges :simple_smile:
btcddev (sprnt)BOT 8:20 AM
ok
someone asked on btctalk
your sockpuppet? :smile:
crackers (sprnt)BOT 8:25 AM
:flushed:
btcddev (sprnt)BOT 8:26 AM
lol
So your account was suspended?
crackers (sprnt)BOT 8:28 AM
was for a week or so
it unbanned now
azeh (sprnt)BOT 8:35 AM
good lord, that is just ridiculous
that place has really gone south
glad we have slack
btcddev (sprnt)BOT 8:37 AM
Me too
Slack is great
fsb4000 (sprnt)BOT 9:31 AM
@crackers: Hi. Did you check the duplicates shares vulnerability? I wrote at bitcointalk PM but you didn't respond...
crackers (sprnt)BOT 9:32 AM
I did, and have asked the src dev to verify if it's an issue with their distribution
fsb4000 (sprnt)BOT 9:32 AM
ok
crackers (sprnt)BOT 9:32 AM
sorry, been busy with the pool recoding the profit and exchange algo's
do you know which stratum distributions are currently venerable?
going to have statum ports for high and low diff coins
to help reduce the amount of orphans as it is now... when the whole pool get moved into a coins and blasts the hell out of it... I want to avoid that and have ports with lower speeds to help sustain the low diff coins network without affecting it drasticly
fsb4000 (sprnt)BOT 9:40 AM
What is stratum distributions?
I know that ghash.io and eloipool were vulnerable (and possibly still are)
crackers (sprnt)BOT 9:42 AM
ahh
just mean what versions of the stratum softwars
the one I'm using is a custom one
hasn't been out int he wild too long
fsb4000 (sprnt)BOT 9:44 AM
https://github.com/slush0/stratum-mining is vulnerable
but fix is easy.
Actually already pull request: https://github.com/slush0/stratum-mining/pull/12
GitHub
slush0/stratum-mining
stratum-mining - Demo implementation of Bitcoin mining pool on Stratum protocol
GitHub
template_registry.py: fix the duplicate check by denis2342 · Pull Request #12 · slush0/stratum-mining · GitHub
since the duplicate check does only append all the values and compares them case sensitive it is possible to submit shares with different case but the same value. this commit fixed this possible exploit.
crackers (sprnt)BOT 9:45 AM
ahhh
crackers (sprnt)BOT 10:05 AM
FYI: xpool.ca just  sent 61+ BTCD out to miners! Thanks for the supper :simple_smile: cheers!
jahl (sprnt)BOT 2:28 PM
holy crap, btcd 110btc volume on trex
lemonhead (sprnt)BOT 2:29 PM
what the?
kitchentable (sprnt)BOT 2:44 PM
About 20k coins purchased. I didn't even know there was a wall that big on sell.
jahl (sprnt)BOT 2:46 PM
somwone kept on buying up the sells in the history
seckle 4:39 PM
Fake vol someone buying and selling 500 over and over
crackers (sprnt)BOT 7:17 PM
Fixed another annoying bug, but one that has been affecting profitability for a little while now, though I still seem to be pulling some good returns or the pool wouldn't be continuing to grow! Especially with the big miners dropping loads of hash on the pool. My block notify script, seemed to work fine when each coind was started and would notify on blocks as expected for an hour or even several hours. Which is why I never really took notice. Eventually for no known reason, it would start to fail with some error # that was meaningless from what I could find. Today I dug into it found the culprit was actually Debian's netcat binary so I revamped the block notify to use a different binary and thuss far, no coind's have failed to run the block notify successfully. So, I'm hoping this is going to give a nice little bump in profitability as some coins were ~30%+ orphans and I'm already seeing the number of orphan drop considerably. Anyway, just though ya'll should know :simple_smile:    Cheers!
crackers (sprnt)BOT 9:13 PM
ummm
sure
I'll buy 20k btcd off bittrex
someone wanted in
and wasn't shittin
cassius (sprnt)BOT 4:58 AM
gitbknowsall, I think. Didn't affect the price somehow.
crackers (sprnt)BOT 6:40 AM
yeah, also very strange that there was 20k to even buy... must have been co-ordinated
only 8k there now
and buying that would take the price to .0055
ensorcell (sprnt)BOT 8:49 AM Interesting thread on reddit the other day.  Got some responses from bitcoin core devs:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/32nh81/i_want_to_see_strong_anonimity_in_the_bitcoin/
reddit
I want to see strong anonimity in the Bitcoin core...... • /r/Bitcoin
First of all if you think privacy doesn't matter read this: http://redd.it/2vofl9 Good, now you know privacy matter, but you might still...
clovis (sprnt)BOT 9:27 AM
hey btcd channel!! long time holder here, just wanted to make a presence over here in slack!
cassius (sprnt)BOT 9:27 AM
Hey Clovis!
clovis (sprnt)BOT 9:27 AM
good to be connected on btctalk and slack now :grinning:
what's up cassius
cassius (sprnt)BOT 9:28 AM
Not too much right now, just doing some work
Kind of. Getting distracted mostly
clovis (sprnt)BOT 9:30 AM
easy to do
cassius (sprnt)BOT 9:34 AM
Yeah, all these productivity tools... forums, Slack, Skype, email. Destroying my productivity.
gambleh (sprnt)BOT 9:34 AM
lol
so  true
cassius (sprnt)BOT 9:37 AM
Just staked 1.4 BTCD, on ~1400 coins. Weird.
kevondo (sprnt)BOT 9:38 AM
@cassius: how long since you had opened your wallet?
cassius (sprnt)BOT 9:38 AM
Yesterday
Guess I got lucky
kevondo (sprnt)BOT 9:39 AM
I think stakers get a hit from tx fees
clovis (sprnt)BOT 9:39 AM
certainly did, that's a nice little return
kevondo (sprnt)BOT 9:39 AM
so if biger volume maybe more from that
cassius (sprnt)BOT 9:41 AM
Tx fees are low for BTCD, though
Hey, I'm not complaining.
kevondo (sprnt)BOT 9:42 AM
I don't keep my wallet open all the time.
but let me check my BTCD
crackers (sprnt)BOT 9:42 AM
no big one for me :disappointed:
kevondo (sprnt)BOT 9:43 AM
@cassius:  yah but folks with integrity will comment if they are OVER paid
then if an error has occurred in the pay structure it can be fixed
majority would just take the money and keep quie
cassius (sprnt)BOT 9:44 AM
Does seem a little odd. I've never had that much before.
Oh, wait, that's the first time I've staked in over a week
kevondo (sprnt)BOT 9:45 AM
3K blocks to go until up to date
There you go
cassius (sprnt)BOT 9:45 AM
Ah, I think I had my wallet set to not staking after restarting a while back. Just unlocked and got a catch-up payment.
kevondo (sprnt)BOT 9:48 AM
I should keep mine open- compound interest and all
cassius (sprnt)BOT 9:49 AM
I don't think it makes too much difference
kevondo (sprnt)BOT 9:50 AM
well, depends on amount you hold but every little bit helps
cassius (sprnt)BOT 9:50 AM
Sure. But I don't know whether it's much more than dust if you open it regularly rather than stake all the time
kevondo (sprnt)BOT 9:50 AM
then if BTCD takes off when the masses start checking out SN
you get multiplier in satoshis from staked or bought on exchange
3rdstryker (sprnt)BOT 9:51 AM
buy support yer?
kevondo (sprnt)BOT 9:52 AM
that why I don't keep it open all the time
40 minutes to reward in my wallet
supports been steady mid 40's
lower than that and i accuulate a few
petty pciey for me @ 450K
kevondo (sprnt)BOT 10:13 AM
stake in. .457 but hadn't been opened in 4 days
I've got a tad over 900
looks like  about 1 coin a week on that level balance
450K sats nt bad
so 50 coins per year
interest about right on 1000 coins would be 50 @ 5%
jahl (sprnt)BOT 3:49 PM
crypto777 log on BCT thread, no more secret now :smile:
jl777 (sprnt)BOT 3:59 PM
the crypto777 tech will have a built in way to generate fees, via blockchain. I am working with Consensus Research who will be doing the whitepaper and modeling
these fees will be assetized and I will be issuing an asset within a few weeks
preference will be given to purchases made via BTCD
but I need to finish InstantDEX first as I will use it to create the orderbooks for the sales directly in BTCD
now the actual backed and pegged cryptos are "hard" assets, so I cant give out dividends in those, the asset is based on the sum of all the fees from all the backed and pegged assets that will be created
there will be a price ladder so early birds get a discount, but as the whitepaper is released and the tech matures, the price will be raised at the milestones
jl777 (sprnt)BOT 4:08 PM
I made a crypto777 channel
jahl (sprnt)BOT 4:08 PM
i havent touched my btcd wallet to send any coin besides one test coin
jl777 (sprnt)BOT 4:08 PM
you can use BTC or NXT too
it seems there is a fair amount of demand for this and issued as an asset, people can purchase the amount they want
jahl (sprnt)BOT 4:10 PM
i like it, count me in :simple_smile:
jahl (sprnt)BOT 4:17 PM
actually my btcd wallet send button is still a virgin i see
jl777 (sprnt)BOT 4:21 PM
I am thinking of allocating 5% of crypto777 revenues to BTCD stakers, but it would mess up the 5% + 5% + 5% graphics
jahl (sprnt)BOT
i don't ppl would mind that :simple_smile:
btcddev (sprnt)BOT 4:21 PM
me neither
jahl (sprnt)BOT 4:21 PM
5% + 5% + 5% = 20%
surprise 5% :simple_smile:
btcddev (sprnt)BOT 4:22 PM
wouldn't that indirectly give btcd a portion of pangea
jl777 (sprnt)BOT 4:22 PM
ok, if it isnt a problem I can do this
very indirectly
the pangea usecase is not backed and pegged
jahl (sprnt)BOT 4:23 PM
always good to encourage ppl to stake even more
jl777 (sprnt)BOT 4:23 PM
and I dont want to be charging fees for poker hands
but the usage of crypto777 tech for pangea chips will be a very good test case to prove out the tech, at least the speed side of things
btcddev (sprnt)BOT 4:25 PM
agreed
will help prove crypto777's usefulness, and will be great for pangea
jahl (sprnt)BOT 4:36 PM
wish i bought more instantdex :smile:
btcddev (sprnt)BOT 4:38 PM
you can still get nxtcoinsco or jay for less
jahl (sprnt)BOT 4:38 PM
already have buys
and tomorrow dividend payout :simple_smile:
how much will jay get from instantdex?
jl777 (sprnt)BOT 4:40 PM
10% from each side that uses Jay, so either 10% or 20% of Jay based InstantDEX, plus it will also get revs from other services
btcddev (sprnt)BOT 4:49 PM
I know of at least one android application integrating jay.js right now :smile:
js.galt (sprnt)BOT 4:53 PM
:smile: nice
js.galt (sprnt)BOT 5:06 PM Hello Folk. Uhm, my OS crashed and had to reinstall. Which means I need to resintall lots of programs including BTCD.Following the instructions we had worked out a while ago, getting an error that I'm not sure what to do with. Probably missing something I already had on the last install. Anyway, This is what I've done so far.sudo apt-get install gitEnter password and hit 'Y' when it asks.git clone git://github.com/laowais/bitcoindarkyou might need to install some dependencies,sudo apt-get install qt4-qmake libqt4-dev build-essential libboost-dev libboost-system-dev libboost-filesystem-dev libboost-program-options-dev libboost-thread-dev libssl-dev libdb++-dev libminiupnpc-devcd bitcoindarkqmakeThis is the error I got after qmake.
desktop:~/bitcoindark$ qmake
Project MESSAGE: Building with UPNP support
Project MESSAGE: Building with UPNP supportProject MESSAGE: Building with DBUS (Freedesktop notifications) supportRemoved plural forms as the target language has less forms.
If this sounds wrong, possibly the target language is not set or recognized.
Removed plural forms as the target language has less forms.
Please help. Thank you. :simple_smile:
cody50055 2:59 AM
Anyone willing to give a smaller investor thinking about the future a decent deal on .25 BTC worth of BTCD
bizz (sprnt)BOT 3:40 AM
@js.galt:  those look like just information messages ... try proceed with make
clovis (sprnt)BOT 6:40 AM
morning to all BTCD hodlers!!!
killakem (sprnt)BOT 6:43 AM
Morning!
n41r0j (sprnt)BOT 6:44 AM
Afternoon!
clovis (sprnt)BOT 6:45 AM
evening and good night too!
cassius (sprnt)BOT 10:22 AM
Morning
js.galt (sprnt)BOT 2:36 AM
@bizz:  make is doing stuff.  Thanks!
neal (sprnt)BOT 9:51 AM
Anyone wanna give me a quick idiots guide to staking my btcd via the daemon in ubuntu, rather than leaving mt QT wallet window open?
tosch (sprnt)BOT 10:19 AM
I think you need to start it with the terminal
cd home/user/btcd/libjl777
./BitcoinDarkd
clovis (sprnt)BOT 6:08 PM
BTCD is now part of the Blitz BDN (Blockchain delivery Network)  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=848186.msg11138425#msg11138425
[ANN][OCUPY] OCUPY | Pow+Pos | 3.7M Coins | 0.10 BTC Upgrade in progress
pondsea (sprnt)BOT 11:22 PM
Yeah i dont get it?
Why are the fibre guys attached to that coin? Sorry i havent read about it much @mxxxxxx @killakem
3rdstryker (sprnt)BOT 11:32 PM
killaken overlooks the development of blitz coin i believe, fibre and blitz are working together closely
xrobesx (sprnt)BOT 11:33 PM
yes you are right @3rdstryker
pondsea (sprnt)BOT 11:38 PM
ah ok i didnt know :simple_smile:
crackers (sprnt)BOT 11:08 AM
The latest shift for the Xpool Multipool (www.xpool.ca) paid out 92+ BTCD.
cassius (sprnt)BOT 11:11 AM
Will you stop with your pool spam? Pool spam is explicitly against the rules, even though everyone wants to hear about it and it's useful information.
Please take your useful, wanted spam elsewhere.
killakem (sprnt)BOT 11:13 AM
:smile:
cassius (sprnt)BOT 11:14 AM
Slackbot image me spam
:disappointed:
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.hormelfoods.com/~/media/HormelFoods/Images/Brands/Product%2520Shots/High%2520Res%2520Product%2520Shots/spam-family-of-products.ashx&imgrefurl=http://www.hormelfoods.com/Brands/BrandWall/SPAM-Family-of-Products&h=219&w=231&tbnid=k3aJ7G6tEyhmHM:&zoom=1&tbnh=186&tbnw=196&usg=__j8e-87b7TjxOYMonzCF5GdmiHz8=&docid=jDOiCrm81AJChM&itg=1
No pictures any more?
kevondo (sprnt)BOT 12:16 PM
ship it
no ship it squirrel either?
js.galt (sprnt)BOT 12:28 PM
:disappointed: I hear @chanc3r  killed it.
(Or maybe it was someone else? my hearing is lose sometimes)
RIP squirrel
clovis (sprnt)BOT 1:40 PM
@cassius: had me truly rofl on your spam remark!! hehehe
jahl (sprnt)BOT 3:31 PM
damn, he just hears everything
cassius (sprnt)BOT 3:32 PM
:simple_smile: no extra charge
chanc3r (sprnt)BOT 2:46 AM
hmm sorry about slackbot
torrn 8:10 AM
This weeks BitcoinDark Bulletin: Revenue and Value Projections
http://bitcoindark.pw/revenue-and-value-projections/
torrn 8:10 AM

Pasted image at 2015-04-21, 9:11 PM
183KB PNG in #general  • Add comment • Open original
clovis (sprnt)BOT 8:12 AM
thanks torrn!!
cassius (sprnt)BOT 9:02 AM
https://bitscan.com/articles/solid-returns-with-liquid-tech
Bit Scan
Solid returns with LIQUID Tech - Articles - Bitcoin News, Analysis, Interviews and Features
Articles - Solid returns with LIQUID Tech
@libertynow:
Oops, wrong channel :simple_smile:
mivond (sprnt)BOT 9:51 AM
Hi @channel please try out bitcoindarkdice.net!
Hi @channel please try out bitcoindarkdice.net!
btcddev (sprnt)BOT 9:58 AM
Welcome @U04GAGDCP
bezbezbez (sprnt)BOT 10:57 AM
https://twitter.com/CryptolandNews/status/590542998456442881
CryptoNews@CryptolandNews
Revenue and Value Projections #RT http://bitcoindark.pw/revenue-and-value-projections/ #bitcoindark #btcd #bitcoin #blockchain #SuperNET #InstantDEX #NXT
April 21st at 10:49 AM
Share!
cascrypto (sprnt)BOT 1:21 AM
getting impatience  can we start to rise , would love that!
clovis (sprnt)BOT 7:48 AM
me too ^, but accumulating under 400k is still fine with me :grinning:
long term investment with BTCD, so patience is of the utmost importance
killakem (sprnt)BOT 8:10 AM
^^ +1
juicybirds (sprnt)BOT 8:19 AM
privacy+anonymity appear to be in high demand still.  CRAVE, TRON, and 8BIT all promise anonymous transactions and have recently seen big gains on bittrex.
killakem (sprnt)BOT 8:21 AM
Yea they are created by the big pump groups! They will be at 10sat in 6months
Probably sooner
clovis (sprnt)BOT 8:26 AM
which means when btcd releases all the promised features, privacy and anon will still be in high demand :grinning:
James ALWAYS said, from day one, that this would not be a quick trip to the moon, but a slow, comfortable little journey
remember, BTCD hit .0158 last summer.... be patient and you will be rewarded
crackers (sprnt)BOT 8:32 AM
@juicybirds: have you noticed the huge influx of new ninja launched coins etc... it's more than lilkey all the same group of dev sucking the btc out of ppl
clovis (sprnt)BOT 8:34 AM
hey crackers, what up man :grinning:
3rdstryker (sprnt)BOT 8:36 AM
people eventually more to legit coin over time after being burnt
clovis (sprnt)BOT 8:36 AM
and some never learn lol
jl777 (sprnt)BOT 8:38 AM
I am making good progress on the plugin system
this allows code written in a dozen different languages to extend the SuperNET API
and it is high performance enough that I can compartmentalize all the existing components into their own plugins
I am able to do an RPC call in 60 microseconds (to the same process)
which is on the high side for a function call, but it will only be used for things that need their own queues anyway
so it could end up being much faster as the current queuing system is not that efficient
clovis (sprnt)BOT 8:41 AM
sounds like it would be a huge time saver.... very cool James!!
crackers (sprnt)BOT 8:41 AM
clovis: same 'ol :simple_smile: trying to avoid the ban hammer :simple_smile:
jl777 (sprnt)BOT 8:41 AM
and by using the same high performance queuing for internal functions as external SuperNET API calls, it will be quite fast
clovis (sprnt)BOT 8:41 AM
lol, sure you are!!
jl777 (sprnt)BOT 8:41 AM
yes, the code kept getting in the way of the code
clovis (sprnt)BOT 8:41 AM
what a pain in the ass
jl777 (sprnt)BOT 8:41 AM
now I can write a totally standalone module and pop it right in
but it automatically extends the SuperNET API
so what this also means is that we get dynamically loadable command sets
for non-built in plugins you can automatically make a websockets interface that has  a text debug HTML page too
so once I get some examples working, then other people can start porting the plugin system and then a new plugin can be as small as 50 lines of code
of course that would be for simple echo
clovis (sprnt)BOT 8:43 AM
so the plug-in is like a blank circuit board, allowing you to add whatever programming language you like, with little trouble
crackers (sprnt)BOT 8:43 AM
yup sure is. now have dev's emailing me take their coins off the pool... :confused:
jl777 (sprnt)BOT 8:43 AM
exactly
clovis (sprnt)BOT 8:44 AM
very cool
jl777 (sprnt)BOT 8:44 AM
another way to look at it is, if you imagine a lot of cables interconnecting a lot of equipments
cables everywhere
they get tangled
sometimes they come loose
that is the old way
the new way is like wireless
clovis (sprnt)BOT 8:45 AM
okay, that's a better analogy.... makes sense
jl777 (sprnt)BOT 8:45 AM
no direct wires, everything connects via a middleware layer, which allows mapping the local process, local node or even external nodes to endpoints
crackers (sprnt)BOT 8:45 AM
slick
jl777 (sprnt)BOT 8:46 AM
not only is it going from mess of tangled cables to wireless, we get hot pluggable modules
my previous test did about 40 million RPC calls overnight
clovis (sprnt)BOT 8:48 AM
apologies for my lack of knowledge, but that last statement means very little to me.... can you provide some perspective please
jl777 (sprnt)BOT 8:48 AM
bitcoin RPC is limited to about 500 per second
clovis (sprnt)BOT 8:49 AM
oh WOW, that's perspective enough
:grinning:
jl777 (sprnt)BOT 8:49 AM
I am getting over 150,000 per second
but that is just for a null operation, anything that takes even 10 microseconds will slow that down
however I can do a fair amount of calculations in 10 microseconds
btcddev (sprnt)BOT 8:50 AM
I am about to have almost 2 weeks off, should be able to get a lot done. Hoping to get the new plugin system ported to Windows. So it'll have at least the InstantDEX plugin ready to go after thorough testing. By the way guys, we NEED more testing volunteers for iDEX.
jl777 (sprnt)BOT 8:50 AM
so I still have to be a bit careful about the plugin boundaries, but with an overhead of 60 microseconds it wont be a problem
first i will port the new speedy database into a plugin
I need a key/value store, so might as well create a DB plugin
that means anything else can create a new DB via SuperNET API
clovis (sprnt)BOT 8:55 AM
:thumbsup:
n41r0j (sprnt)BOT 8:56 AM
about that testing for iDEX. Is it just usability testing?
btcddev (sprnt)BOT 8:58 AM
@n41r0j: so far, everything has been working on Windows just like linux. However, I haven't seen anyone successfully complete a trade yet. Placing bids/asks works fine, pulling orderbooks, etc. -- all good. We need more testers to see if it's a bug or we just have been unlucky, etc. If it is a bug, we need to figure out what's wrong.
clovis (sprnt)BOT 8:59 AM
what are requirements for testing btcddev
system requirements that is
n41r0j (sprnt)BOT 8:59 AM
i guess you need windows
:stuck_out_tongue:
clovis (sprnt)BOT 8:59 AM
lol
guess i should rephrase....
btcddev (sprnt)BOT 9:00 AM
windows 64 bit
clovis (sprnt)BOT 9:00 AM
i'm not super skilled as far as coding goes.... what skill requirements would i need
n41r0j (sprnt)BOT 9:00 AM
yep, that question applies for me too
clovis (sprnt)BOT 9:01 AM
no dummy here, but can't code either
btcddev (sprnt)BOT 9:01 AM
you need to be able to download the software, edit the config file, run nxt and btcd, open the web browser
clovis (sprnt)BOT 9:02 AM
well that i can handle
n41r0j (sprnt)BOT 9:02 AM
should be possible
i've seen it come along a couple of times, but where to find the download? github?
clovis (sprnt)BOT 9:03 AM
i'll try to get with xrobesx later today, i know you helped him btcddev.... maybe i can get mines going as well :grinning:
btcddev (sprnt)BOT 9:04 AM
btw you can see the idex gui here
http://104.131.45.236/instantdex
cors is messed up so you can't actually place a bid or anything, just view
join #deleted-channel if you want to help
if you click on the little chart icon in the top right, you can edit one of the panels. I usually change panel 9 to SuperNET/NXT
clovis (sprnt)BOT 9:06 AM
just joined.... i have my daughter atm, but will have some time later
btcddev (sprnt)BOT 9:06 AM
you can view all the bids/asks
ok
I need to update it to show all the centralized exchanges as well
clovis (sprnt)BOT 9:07 AM
man, it really does look dope though!!!
btcddev (sprnt)BOT 9:07 AM
:simple_smile:
yeah it does
people on linux have been completing trades a lot. windows hasn't been able to, although I haven't been able to see any obvious bugs, so idk yet
@kitchentable: has been doing a lot of windows testing
clovis (sprnt)BOT 9:08 AM
you'll get there.... okay, i'll keep him in mind
btcddev (sprnt)BOT 9:08 AM
I know people are getting anxious, but we are working as hard as we can!
believe me, I want btcd to moon as much as anyone
clovis (sprnt)BOT 9:09 AM
i know, i used to be one of the impatient ones, but i'm over it hehe
3rdstryker (sprnt)BOT 9:09 AM
take your time man, id rather a solid finished product
clovis (sprnt)BOT 9:09 AM
exactly
hey stryker :grinning:
juicybirds (sprnt)BOT 9:09 AM
I just finished editied a new video which gives a behind the scenes look at BitcoinDark development
3rdstryker (sprnt)BOT 9:09 AM
whatsup man??
clovis (sprnt)BOT 9:09 AM
chillin dude
3rdstryker (sprnt)BOT 9:10 AM
chilling is my middle name
btcddev (sprnt)BOT 9:10 AM
One thing at a time. IDEX became more important with the bter hack. I've been trying to work on other important btcd features as well, but this is priority 1
juicybirds (sprnt)BOT 9:10 AM
At the beginning you can see Matthew and James coding, with Azeh giving a speech in the background
btcddev (sprnt)BOT 9:10 AM
@juicybirds: I'd like to see it sometime
juicybirds (sprnt)BOT 9:10 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MR6FXpaECY8
YouTube
drako2012
Bill Conti - Gonna fly now (Rocky) HD
btcddev (sprnt)BOT 9:10 AM
lolol
clovis (sprnt)BOT 9:11 AM
alright dudes, gotta run.... daughter needs some breakfast... later dudes
btcddev (sprnt)BOT 9:11 AM
bye
crackers (sprnt)BOT 10:40 AM
FYI: The latest shift for the Xpool Multipool (www.xpool.ca) paid out 85+ BTCD.
seckle 11:42 PM
Hi anyone know timelines on IDEX?
js.galt (sprnt)BOT 1:37 AM
Skynet knows. She knows ... everything ...
jl777 (sprnt)BOT 1:40 AM
current bottleneck is lack of test data
there are hundreds of possible permutations that need to be verified
but first we need to get past these install issues
then we can make a list of things that need to be tested
then there can be a place for people to see what tests need to be done
i think @noashh can setup something like this
maybe somebody with some combinatorics background can start on an outline of all the test cases
smiley (sprnt)BOT 1:42 AM
We need more windows users in SN slack for deez testz
jl777 (sprnt)BOT 1:42 AM
yes
js.galt (sprnt)BOT 2:10 AM
If there's bounties I can maybe get the word out. For sure on Nexter.
heard something about rewards to BTCD stakers. ETA on when and how that'll work?
jl777 (sprnt)BOT 2:17 AM
need to have InstantDEX revenues to share
for that we need to release InstantDEX
for that we need to fix all the bugs
for that we need to FIND all the bugs
that is where we are stuck at
js.galt (sprnt)BOT 2:19 AM
Ok. Who's your ideal bug tester?  What do they need to know, and (the annoying question) why should they help?
jl777 (sprnt)BOT 2:19 AM
somebody that can notice details
they would be testing trades
so they would need to be familiar with trading
able to notice if they sold instead of bought
or if the price is wrong
they should help only if they care when it is completed
js.galt (sprnt)BOT 2:22 AM
What have you tried to lure in testers?
jl777 (sprnt)BOT 2:23 AM
code 18hours per day
i really dont have any extra time to be managing a test process
in any case you can (really shouldnt) have the dev doing/managing the test process
it MUST be independent
js.galt (sprnt)BOT 2:26 AM
I agree! I'm guessing no one is taking on that role.
Does BTCD have a community manager?
jl777 (sprnt)BOT 2:28 AM
azeh will be starting but we simply need more manpower
js.galt (sprnt)BOT 2:32 AM
Ok. and InstantDEX is the only thing that needs testing?  There was a bug testing program a while back with bounties trickling down. Did that work?
jl777 (sprnt)BOT 2:34 AM
it found bugs, but we are now needing preproduction InstantDEX testing
js.galt (sprnt)BOT 2:41 AM
Did it work to motivate testeWell, if it worked, why don't we apply the same model again? @azeh  At the least we can get out a request on the media. I've been wanting to write about BTCD. If there's a bounty involved and people can get to play with the GUI,  than I think I can justify an article on CT. I'm sure we can get the request for testers out on SuperNET radio and Nexter.
Or we can cut the bounty side of things and simply ask for help on media networks.
jl777 (sprnt)BOT 2:46 AM
ok we can have bounty for this, but I wont be able to manage it. maybe you can work with azeh to come up with a plan, including how much bounty needed
it will be at first a small number of more technical testers that are needed
then as things get more and more stable, we need more and more people as the critical issues become the exact system config, rather than any global software issue
js.galt (sprnt)BOT 2:49 AM
ok. Who managed or was involved in making designing and making sure the last bug bounties worked? Their experience would be helpful.
jl777 (sprnt)BOT 2:51 AM
azeh
js.galt (sprnt)BOT 2:51 AM
Great! I've DM him. Wohoo!
Tired now, gn. }

[Daedelus]

Just a friendly bump for the BTCD and all other Supernet guys running Nxt nodes 


There was a critical bug fix in NRS v.1.4.17 but someone is exploiting it still as there are still those who haven't updated their nodes.


So please could you check all your nodes and tell your friends and colleagues on slack who might not check nxtforum to do the same. It is important to do so to keep them safe.

Also see: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1036345.0

Thanks 

[bitcoinrocks]

Where are coins stored when traded with InstantDEX?  Say I want to sell some Namecoin I have in a centralized exchange.  How do the coins make their way from my account in the exchange to the buyer?  Do I need to run a local copy of the coin's wallet for every type of coin I want to buy or sell?

[jl777]

Where are coins stored when traded with InstantDEX?  Say I want to sell some Namecoin I have in a centralized exchange.  How do the coins make their way from my account in the exchange to the buyer?  Do I need to run a local copy of the coin's wallet for every type of coin I want to buy or sell?

There is no simple answer to this. The specifics depend on how to set things up.

Here is an example:

Alice has X amount of coin A as an MGW coin asset, Bob has Y amount of coin B on bittrex and some NXT locally.
you have enabled punch through trading on bittrex so have an acct with J amount of BTC in your bittrex acct.

They agree to trade A for B at a specific price.

Now clearly, this cant be done directly, we rely on the property of coin ownership, ie what matters is the sum total of what you control. We assume that InstantDEX has found a path to connect the A and B at the agreed price, in fact it is the reverse. InstantDEX calculates all the possible prices by combining all the potential halves of the A <-> trade and displays the best one and presumably, either Alice or Bob selected the orderbook entry that creates this combination.

Now how can this possibly work? A is on the NXT AE as A/NXT and B is on bittrex as B/BTC
They are not interchangeable. However, we notice that there is a NXT/BTC market (at several places). To keep things simple(r) let us assume that the best price for NXT/BTC is on NXT AE.

A/NXT + BTC/NXT -> A/BTC and we already have B/BTC so put them together and we can go from A <-> B

Let us follow the money. Alice sells A for NXT and also buys BTC with that NXT and also uses the same amount of BTC to buy B on bittrex. Bob sells B for BTC and also sells that BTC for NXT and uses that NXT to buy A.

Alice: sold A, got NXT, uses NXT to get BTC, uses that BTC to get B, so net effect is A became B
Bob: sold B, got BTC, uses BTC to get NXT, uses that NXT to get A, so net effect is B became A

Keep in mind that if a sequence jumps out of the same exchange, you will have both positive and negative contributions of the same coin.

The above is just one possible sequence, but I hope it gives an idea of what InstantDEX is doing for you. I am debugging a plugin system to allow adding more and more methods to clear trades, so more and more exchanges can be supported, more and more methods of trading can be supported, eg. tiernolan atomic swap, telepods, etc.

James

tl:dr you do not have to run a local copy of a coin's wallet. after a trade the NET change will reflect the agreed upon trade and when using central exchanges you will need to be making funds balancing transfers (in BTC or NXT)

[bitcoinrocks]

Where are coins stored when traded with InstantDEX?  Say I want to sell some Namecoin I have in a centralized exchange.  How do the coins make their way from my account in the exchange to the buyer?  Do I need to run a local copy of the coin's wallet for every type of coin I want to buy or sell?

There is no simple answer to this. The specifics depend on how to set things up.

Here is an example:

Alice has X amount of coin A as an MGW coin asset, Bob has Y amount of coin B on bittrex and some NXT locally.
you have enabled punch through trading on bittrex so have an acct with J amount of BTC in your bittrex acct.

They agree to trade A for B at a specific price.

Now clearly, this cant be done directly, we rely on the property of coin ownership, ie what matters is the sum total of what you control. We assume that InstantDEX has found a path to connect the A and B at the agreed price, in fact it is the reverse. InstantDEX calculates all the possible prices by combining all the potential halves of the A <-> trade and displays the best one and presumably, either Alice or Bob selected the orderbook entry that creates this combination.

Now how can this possibly work? A is on the NXT AE as A/NXT and B is on bittrex as B/BTC
They are not interchangeable. However, we notice that there is a NXT/BTC market (at several places). To keep things simple(r) let us assume that the best price for NXT/BTC is on NXT AE.

A/NXT + BTC/NXT -> A/BTC and we already have B/BTC so put them together and we can go from A <-> B

Let us follow the money. Alice sells A for NXT and also buys BTC with that NXT and also uses the same amount of BTC to buy B on bittrex. Bob sells B for BTC and also sells that BTC for NXT and uses that NXT to buy A.

Alice: sold A, got NXT, uses NXT to get BTC, uses that BTC to get B, so net effect is A became B
Bob: sold B, got BTC, uses BTC to get NXT, uses that NXT to get A, so net effect is B became A

Keep in mind that if a sequence jumps out of the same exchange, you will have both positive and negative contributions of the same coin.

The above is just one possible sequence, but I hope it gives an idea of what InstantDEX is doing for you. I am debugging a plugin system to allow adding more and more methods to clear trades, so more and more exchanges can be supported, more and more methods of trading can be supported, eg. tiernolan atomic swap, telepods, etc.

James

tl:dr you do not have to run a local copy of a coin's wallet. after a trade the NET change will reflect the agreed upon trade and when using central exchanges you will need to be making funds balancing transfers (in BTC or NXT)

So before and after the trade, A and B can exist in either a local wallet or in a centralized exchange?  And InstantDEX needs to be able to interface with the wallet or exchange.  Is there a list of wallets and exchanges that InstantDEX can interface with?  Is there a way to keep funds "in" InstantDEX, meaning somehow in a blockchain without running a local wallet?

[jl777]

Where are coins stored when traded with InstantDEX?  Say I want to sell some Namecoin I have in a centralized exchange.  How do the coins make their way from my account in the exchange to the buyer?  Do I need to run a local copy of the coin's wallet for every type of coin I want to buy or sell?

There is no simple answer to this. The specifics depend on how to set things up.

Here is an example:

Alice has X amount of coin A as an MGW coin asset, Bob has Y amount of coin B on bittrex and some NXT locally.
you have enabled punch through trading on bittrex so have an acct with J amount of BTC in your bittrex acct.

They agree to trade A for B at a specific price.

Now clearly, this cant be done directly, we rely on the property of coin ownership, ie what matters is the sum total of what you control. We assume that InstantDEX has found a path to connect the A and B at the agreed price, in fact it is the reverse. InstantDEX calculates all the possible prices by combining all the potential halves of the A <-> trade and displays the best one and presumably, either Alice or Bob selected the orderbook entry that creates this combination.

Now how can this possibly work? A is on the NXT AE as A/NXT and B is on bittrex as B/BTC
They are not interchangeable. However, we notice that there is a NXT/BTC market (at several places). To keep things simple(r) let us assume that the best price for NXT/BTC is on NXT AE.

A/NXT + BTC/NXT -> A/BTC and we already have B/BTC so put them together and we can go from A <-> B

Let us follow the money. Alice sells A for NXT and also buys BTC with that NXT and also uses the same amount of BTC to buy B on bittrex. Bob sells B for BTC and also sells that BTC for NXT and uses that NXT to buy A.

Alice: sold A, got NXT, uses NXT to get BTC, uses that BTC to get B, so net effect is A became B
Bob: sold B, got BTC, uses BTC to get NXT, uses that NXT to get A, so net effect is B became A

Keep in mind that if a sequence jumps out of the same exchange, you will have both positive and negative contributions of the same coin.

The above is just one possible sequence, but I hope it gives an idea of what InstantDEX is doing for you. I am debugging a plugin system to allow adding more and more methods to clear trades, so more and more exchanges can be supported, more and more methods of trading can be supported, eg. tiernolan atomic swap, telepods, etc.

James

tl:dr you do not have to run a local copy of a coin's wallet. after a trade the NET change will reflect the agreed upon trade and when using central exchanges you will need to be making funds balancing transfers (in BTC or NXT)

So before and after the trade, A and B can exist in either a local wallet or in a centralized exchange?  And InstantDEX needs to be able to interface with the wallet or exchange.  Is there a list of wallets and exchanges that InstantDEX can interface with?  Is there a way to keep funds "in" InstantDEX, meaning somehow in a blockchain without running a local wallet?

InstantDEX is fully decentralized and is in fact providing a multiexchange/coin view for the world
You could keep everything in MGW crypto assets on the NXT blockchain and not need to have any local wallets.
There will be alternate solutions later in the year too, but at first the NXT asset method is the way to get multicoin without multiple wallets

The list of MGW coins I am actually not aware of the current list, but they are working on quite a few of the top volume coins.

Currently the following exchanges are supported:

        { (void *)"poloniex", (void *)ramparse_poloniex, (void *)poloniex_supports, (void *)poloniex_trade, },
        { (void *)"bittrex", (void *)ramparse_bittrex, (void *)bittrex_supports, (void *)bittrex_trade },
        { (void *)"bter", (void *)ramparse_bter, (void *)bter_supports, (void *)bter_trade },
        { (void *)"btce", (void *)ramparse_btce, (void *)btce_supports, (void *)btce_trade },
        { (void *)"bitfinex", (void *)ramparse_bitfinex, (void *)bitfinex_supports, 0 },
        { (void *)"bitstamp", (void *)ramparse_bitstamp, (void *)bitstamp_supports, 0 },
        { (void *)"okcoin", (void *)ramparse_okcoin, (void *)okcoin_supports, 0 },
        { (void *)"huobi", (void *)ramparse_huobi, (void *)huobi_supports, 0 },
        { (void *)"bityes", (void *)ramparse_bityes, (void *)bityes_supports, 0 },
        { (void *)"lakebtc", (void *)ramparse_lakebtc, (void *)lakebtc_supports, 0 },
        { (void *)"exmo", (void *)ramparse_exmo, (void *)exmo_supports, 0 },
        { (void *)"btc38", (void *)ramparse_btc38, (void *)btc38_supports, 0 },

the ones with <exchange>_trade entry has the authenticated trading implemented, and adding support for new exchange is not so much work.

James

[Pecunia non olet]

How much was premine? Please put info into OP, thanks!

[bitcoinrocks]

You could keep everything in MGW crypto assets on the NXT blockchain and not need to have any local wallets.
There will be alternate solutions later in the year too, but at first the NXT asset method is the way to get multicoin without multiple wallets

The list of MGW coins I am actually not aware of the current list, but they are working on quite a few of the top volume coins.

It looks like the current list is BTC, BTCD, VRC, OPAL, BITS, DOGE, LTC, BC, VPN, and VIA:

http://multigateway.org/#sec_coins

For now, are these the only coins that can be stored on the NXT blockchain?

Can any coins besides these be traded with InstantDEX?

Currently the following exchanges are supported:

        { (void *)"poloniex", (void *)ramparse_poloniex, (void *)poloniex_supports, (void *)poloniex_trade, },
        { (void *)"bittrex", (void *)ramparse_bittrex, (void *)bittrex_supports, (void *)bittrex_trade },
        { (void *)"bter", (void *)ramparse_bter, (void *)bter_supports, (void *)bter_trade },
        { (void *)"btce", (void *)ramparse_btce, (void *)btce_supports, (void *)btce_trade },
        { (void *)"bitfinex", (void *)ramparse_bitfinex, (void *)bitfinex_supports, 0 },
        { (void *)"bitstamp", (void *)ramparse_bitstamp, (void *)bitstamp_supports, 0 },
        { (void *)"okcoin", (void *)ramparse_okcoin, (void *)okcoin_supports, 0 },
        { (void *)"huobi", (void *)ramparse_huobi, (void *)huobi_supports, 0 },
        { (void *)"bityes", (void *)ramparse_bityes, (void *)bityes_supports, 0 },
        { (void *)"lakebtc", (void *)ramparse_lakebtc, (void *)lakebtc_supports, 0 },
        { (void *)"exmo", (void *)ramparse_exmo, (void *)exmo_supports, 0 },
        { (void *)"btc38", (void *)ramparse_btc38, (void *)btc38_supports, 0 },

Can coins be traded with InstantDEX that aren't in a centralized exchange?  If coins from a local wallet can be traded with InstantDEX, which local wallets are supported?

[jl777]

You could keep everything in MGW crypto assets on the NXT blockchain and not need to have any local wallets.
There will be alternate solutions later in the year too, but at first the NXT asset method is the way to get multicoin without multiple wallets

The list of MGW coins I am actually not aware of the current list, but they are working on quite a few of the top volume coins.

It looks like the current list is BTC, BTCD, VRC, OPAL, BITS, DOGE, LTC, BC, VPN, and VIA:

http://multigateway.org/#sec_coins

For now, are these the only coins that can be stored on the NXT blockchain?

Can any coins besides these be traded with InstantDEX?

Currently the following exchanges are supported:

        { (void *)"poloniex", (void *)ramparse_poloniex, (void *)poloniex_supports, (void *)poloniex_trade, },
        { (void *)"bittrex", (void *)ramparse_bittrex, (void *)bittrex_supports, (void *)bittrex_trade },
        { (void *)"bter", (void *)ramparse_bter, (void *)bter_supports, (void *)bter_trade },
        { (void *)"btce", (void *)ramparse_btce, (void *)btce_supports, (void *)btce_trade },
        { (void *)"bitfinex", (void *)ramparse_bitfinex, (void *)bitfinex_supports, 0 },
        { (void *)"bitstamp", (void *)ramparse_bitstamp, (void *)bitstamp_supports, 0 },
        { (void *)"okcoin", (void *)ramparse_okcoin, (void *)okcoin_supports, 0 },
        { (void *)"huobi", (void *)ramparse_huobi, (void *)huobi_supports, 0 },
        { (void *)"bityes", (void *)ramparse_bityes, (void *)bityes_supports, 0 },
        { (void *)"lakebtc", (void *)ramparse_lakebtc, (void *)lakebtc_supports, 0 },
        { (void *)"exmo", (void *)ramparse_exmo, (void *)exmo_supports, 0 },
        { (void *)"btc38", (void *)ramparse_btc38, (void *)btc38_supports, 0 },

Can coins be traded with InstantDEX that aren't in a centralized exchange?  If coins from a local wallet can be traded with InstantDEX, which local wallets are supported?

that is an old list, I know a lot more are in testing, the MGW process it totally independent of InstantDEX, it is just a special case asset and InstantDEX supports all NXT assets. MGW can support any gen1 coin that supports multisig, just a matter of getting enough demand.

As far as direct local wallet trading, the coins that support tiernolan's cross chain protocol, which should be most of them. The old up for that is that only about one third of the bitcoin miners even accept these transactions, and there are some other fixes needed to make it totally secure.

I have designed InstantDEX to be modular, so as soon as there is a viable way to trade coins, I can add it into the overall structure. So new coins, new exchanges, new methods are all possible to add. However, we have to start somewhere before we can get the ability to trade any coin that is anywhere. Keep in mind that the tiernolan approach has some latency issues, so it has some tradeoffs but it will be the way to do totally peer to peer trading.

It sounds like you are impatient, but we need to get through a few test/debug cycles with the core coins and exchanges before we start expanding. Once the baseline is working, it will be minimal effort to add a new coin or exchange

James

[bitcoinrocks]

that is an old list, I know a lot more are in testing, the MGW process it totally independent of InstantDEX, it is just a special case asset and InstantDEX supports all NXT assets. MGW can support any gen1 coin that supports multisig, just a matter of getting enough demand.

As far as direct local wallet trading, the coins that support tiernolan's cross chain protocol, which should be most of them. The old up for that is that only about one third of the bitcoin miners even accept these transactions, and there are some other fixes needed to make it totally secure.

I have designed InstantDEX to be modular, so as soon as there is a viable way to trade coins, I can add it into the overall structure. So new coins, new exchanges, new methods are all possible to add. However, we have to start somewhere before we can get the ability to trade any coin that is anywhere. Keep in mind that the tiernolan approach has some latency issues, so it has some tradeoffs but it will be the way to do totally peer to peer trading.

It sounds like you are impatient, but we need to get through a few test/debug cycles with the core coins and exchanges before we start expanding. Once the baseline is working, it will be minimal effort to add a new coin or exchange

I'm not impatient, I'm just trying to understand how InstantDEX will work from a user's perspective at launch.

Can any coin in a supported centralized exchange be traded with InstantDEX at launch, or only coins specifically supported by InstantDEX?

At launch, will InstantDEX be able to trade any coin in a local wallet that is compatible with TierNolan's cross-chain protocol?

[jl777]

that is an old list, I know a lot more are in testing, the MGW process it totally independent of InstantDEX, it is just a special case asset and InstantDEX supports all NXT assets. MGW can support any gen1 coin that supports multisig, just a matter of getting enough demand.

As far as direct local wallet trading, the coins that support tiernolan's cross chain protocol, which should be most of them. The old up for that is that only about one third of the bitcoin miners even accept these transactions, and there are some other fixes needed to make it totally secure.

I have designed InstantDEX to be modular, so as soon as there is a viable way to trade coins, I can add it into the overall structure. So new coins, new exchanges, new methods are all possible to add. However, we have to start somewhere before we can get the ability to trade any coin that is anywhere. Keep in mind that the tiernolan approach has some latency issues, so it has some tradeoffs but it will be the way to do totally peer to peer trading.

It sounds like you are impatient, but we need to get through a few test/debug cycles with the core coins and exchanges before we start expanding. Once the baseline is working, it will be minimal effort to add a new coin or exchange

I'm not impatient, I'm just trying to understand how InstantDEX will work from a user's perspective at launch.

Can any coin in a supported centralized exchange be traded with InstantDEX at launch, or only coins specifically supported by InstantDEX?

At launch, will InstantDEX be able to trade any coin in a local wallet that is compatible with TierNolan's cross-chain protocol?

Initial launch will not support all coins and all exchanges and all trade methods.
I believe in incremental improvements, so at first it will be a limited set of coins, limited set of exchanges and without tiernolan

[bitcoinrocks]

Initial launch will not support all coins and all exchanges and all trade methods.
I believe in incremental improvements, so at first it will be a limited set of coins, limited set of exchanges and without tiernolan

OK, I think we have the list of supported exchanges above.  Which coins will be supported at launch?

If I understand correctly, InstantDEX will at first require that the coins it trades are in a centralized exchange.  Because of this, is it fair to say that InstantDEX will at first be a method for combining exchange liquidity instead of a method for trading without trusting a centralized exchange?

[indeed]

Initial launch will not support all coins and all exchanges and all trade methods.
I believe in incremental improvements, so at first it will be a limited set of coins, limited set of exchanges and without tiernolan

OK, I think we have the list of supported exchanges above.  Which coins will be supported at launch?

If I understand correctly, InstantDEX will at first require that the coins it trades are in a centralized exchange.  Because of this, is it fair to say that InstantDEX will at first be a method for combining exchange liquidity instead of a method for trading without trusting a centralized exchange?

Bitcoinrocks, thanks for the interesting questions, these are things I was curious about but wasn't quite sure how to ask. jl777, thanks for all the great answers - exciting stuff. Please keep this dialog going, I didnt get the impression bitcoinrocks is impatient, but just trying to understand what the near term goals are and how exactly it will initially work vs how you ultimately plan for it to all come together. I think discussions like this only help to clarify and demonstrate how significant and important your vision is. 

[jl777]

Initial launch will not support all coins and all exchanges and all trade methods.
I believe in incremental improvements, so at first it will be a limited set of coins, limited set of exchanges and without tiernolan

OK, I think we have the list of supported exchanges above.  Which coins will be supported at launch?

If I understand correctly, InstantDEX will at first require that the coins it trades are in a centralized exchange.  Because of this, is it fair to say that InstantDEX will at first be a method for combining exchange liquidity instead of a method for trading without trusting a centralized exchange?

Of course anything you leave on a central exchange requires you to trust them. However by having a single unified view as to all the possible orders in all the places, if you see an order that happens to be a direct InstantDEX order, then the natural result is to grab the better price. Remember that all the InstantDEX quotes will only have a few NXT fixed fee vs. the ~0.2% commissions for exchanges.

With all of the MGW assets that are added to all the NXT assets, there will be totally decentralized trading possible, at launch. MGW assets are special assets that map 1:1 to the supported coins, and any NXT assetA/assetB trades via InstantDEX (or NXT AE) is fully totally completely decentralized.

We will support BTC and BTCD for sure, and probably up to a dozen total coins, including most of the SuperNET core coins that support gen1 multisig.

James

[Zer0Sum]

Initial launch will not support all coins and all exchanges and all trade methods.
I believe in incremental improvements, so at first it will be a limited set of coins, limited set of exchanges and without tiernolan

OK, I think we have the list of supported exchanges above.  Which coins will be supported at launch?

If I understand correctly, InstantDEX will at first require that the coins it trades are in a centralized exchange.  Because of this, is it fair to say that InstantDEX will at first be a method for combining exchange liquidity instead of a method for trading without trusting a centralized exchange?

Of course anything you leave on a central exchange requires you to trust them. However by having a single unified view as to all the possible orders in all the places, if you see an order that happens to be a direct InstantDEX order, then the natural result is to grab the better price. Remember that all the InstantDEX quotes will only have a few NXT fixed fee vs. the ~0.2% commissions for exchanges.

With all of the MGW assets that are added to all the NXT assets, there will be totally decentralized trading possible, at launch. MGW assets are special assets that map 1:1 to the supported coins, and any NXT assetA/assetB trades via InstantDEX (or NXT AE) is fully totally completely decentralized.

We will support BTC and BTCD for sure, and probably up to a dozen total coins, including most of the SuperNET core coins that support gen1 multisig.

James

The Top 3 coins (BTC, LTC, XRP) did 97.61% of crypto volume the last 24 hours...
So adding any other coins is basically a Public Service.

You should list BTC, LTC, NXT and BTCD and get that working flawlessly...
And think about adding features such as SHORTING before supporting obscure coins.

Also, your revenue appears based on capturing the bid-ask spread (since the fixed fee won't amount to much)...
I realize that this is a composite spread based on several exchanges...
But the typical spread until you reach MEANINGFUL liquidity (say, $100) is huge for most Alts...
Just a sample of actual bid-ask spreads based on Polo/Bittrex:

NXT..... 1-2%
BTCD....3-4%
VRC......5-7%
FIBRE...10-20%
OPAL...15-25%

Pro/Day traders that do most of the volume succeed by:

(a) capturing the spread over and over
(b) riding pumps and trading on inside information

No serious, hi-volume trader is going to give you that spread.

Is InstantDEX Business Model = help day traders capture the spread via Limit Orders by creating "composite liquidity"...
Or, like ShapeShift, is it a "black box" designed to charge the spread to occasional crypto exchangers?

Your fee structure indicates the latter... and is a poor fee structure for the former.

[jl777]

Initial launch will not support all coins and all exchanges and all trade methods.
I believe in incremental improvements, so at first it will be a limited set of coins, limited set of exchanges and without tiernolan

OK, I think we have the list of supported exchanges above.  Which coins will be supported at launch?

If I understand correctly, InstantDEX will at first require that the coins it trades are in a centralized exchange.  Because of this, is it fair to say that InstantDEX will at first be a method for combining exchange liquidity instead of a method for trading without trusting a centralized exchange?

Of course anything you leave on a central exchange requires you to trust them. However by having a single unified view as to all the possible orders in all the places, if you see an order that happens to be a direct InstantDEX order, then the natural result is to grab the better price. Remember that all the InstantDEX quotes will only have a few NXT fixed fee vs. the ~0.2% commissions for exchanges.

With all of the MGW assets that are added to all the NXT assets, there will be totally decentralized trading possible, at launch. MGW assets are special assets that map 1:1 to the supported coins, and any NXT assetA/assetB trades via InstantDEX (or NXT AE) is fully totally completely decentralized.

We will support BTC and BTCD for sure, and probably up to a dozen total coins, including most of the SuperNET core coins that support gen1 multisig.

James

The Top 3 coins (BTC, LTC, XRP) did 97.61% of crypto volume the last 24 hours...
So adding any other coins is basically a Public Service.

You should list BTC, LTC, NXT and BTCD and get that working flawlessly...
And think about adding features such as SHORTING before supporting obscure coins.

Also, your revenue appears based on capturing the bid-ask spread (since the fixed fee won't amount to much)...
I realize that this is a composite spread based on several exchanges...
But the typical spread until you reach MEANINGFUL liquidity (say, $100) is huge for most Alts...
Just a sample of actual bid-ask spreads based on Polo/Bittrex:

NXT..... 1-2%
BTCD....3-4%
VRC......5-7%
FIBRE...10-20%
OPAL...15-25%

Pro/Day traders that do most of the volume succeed by:

(a) capturing the spread over and over
(b) riding pumps and trading on inside information

No serious, hi-volume trader is going to give you that spread.

Is InstantDEX Business Model = help day traders capture the spread via Limit Orders by creating "composite liquidity"...
Or, like ShapeShift, is it a "black box" designed to charge the spread to occasional crypto exchangers?

Your fee structure indicates the latter... and is a poor fee structure for the former.

lower spreads will create more volumes
lower fees will create more volumes
InstantDEX does both and its fixed fee will make larger amounts much more economical, though even for relatively small amounts it will still be pretty cost effective.

plus its decentralized

I want InstantDEX to provide the best prices with the most liquidity. That way it will be the logical place to trade. After all if you dont use InstantDEX, then maybe you end up paying more.

Keep in mind that I am projecting forward in the future and not needing to maximize profits in the short term. Without any ongoing overhead, InstantDEX will last for many years and to maximize the lifetime dividends, having the largest user base is the solution. Also, the InstantDEX API will be able to be used by many crypto businesses that want to get the best prices/liquidity

James

[bitcoinrocks]

If I understand correctly, InstantDEX will at first require that the coins it trades are in a centralized exchange.  Because of this, is it fair to say that InstantDEX will at first be a method for combining exchange liquidity instead of a method for trading without trusting a centralized exchange?

Of course anything you leave on a central exchange requires you to trust them. However by having a single unified view as to all the possible orders in all the places, if you see an order that happens to be a direct InstantDEX order, then the natural result is to grab the better price. Remember that all the InstantDEX quotes will only have a few NXT fixed fee vs. the ~0.2% commissions for exchanges.

I think it sounds great.

With all of the MGW assets that are added to all the NXT assets, there will be totally decentralized trading possible, at launch. MGW assets are special assets that map 1:1 to the supported coins, and any NXT assetA/assetB trades via InstantDEX (or NXT AE) is fully totally completely decentralized.

If I understand correctly, the coin in question here would need to be supported by both MGW and InstantDEX.

Also, is it correct to say that this process is totally decentralized?  According to my very limited understanding of MGW, it is a well-designed but centralized service.

Which coins will be supported at launch?

We will support BTC and BTCD for sure, and probably up to a dozen total coins, including most of the SuperNET core coins that support gen1 multisig.

[bitcoinrocks]

Can I store BTCD anywhere besides in an exchange, in the BTCD wallet, and in the NXT blockchain via MGW?

[jl777]

If I understand correctly, InstantDEX will at first require that the coins it trades are in a centralized exchange.  Because of this, is it fair to say that InstantDEX will at first be a method for combining exchange liquidity instead of a method for trading without trusting a centralized exchange?

Of course anything you leave on a central exchange requires you to trust them. However by having a single unified view as to all the possible orders in all the places, if you see an order that happens to be a direct InstantDEX order, then the natural result is to grab the better price. Remember that all the InstantDEX quotes will only have a few NXT fixed fee vs. the ~0.2% commissions for exchanges.

I think it sounds great.

With all of the MGW assets that are added to all the NXT assets, there will be totally decentralized trading possible, at launch. MGW assets are special assets that map 1:1 to the supported coins, and any NXT assetA/assetB trades via InstantDEX (or NXT AE) is fully totally completely decentralized.

If I understand correctly, the coin in question here would need to be supported by both MGW and InstantDEX.

Also, is it correct to say that this process is totally decentralized?  According to my very limited understanding of MGW, it is a well-designed but centralized service.

Which coins will be supported at launch?

We will support BTC and BTCD for sure, and probably up to a dozen total coins, including most of the SuperNET core coins that support gen1 multisig.

MGW is best described as distributed, it is almost as distributed as ripple since MGW has 3 nodes, while ripple has 5 validators.

InstantDEX is independent of MGW. The only linkage is that InstantDEX knows about MGW assets being 1:1 to native crypto and it uses this to calculate virtual prices across all exchanges, but this is nothing to do about the order clearing side of things. On that side a NXT asset is a NXT asset is a NXT asset. I think the nuance here is that the NXT assets are 100% totally decentralized as far as their trading, but they each have various levels of centralization depending on the issuer.

InstantDEX <-> NXT AE <-> MGW
     |
     v
centralized exchanges

I did a "graphic" for you. When the tiernolan method is added, another arrow goes out from InstantDEX. also when teleports are added, yet another arrow. Hopefully you can see how InstantDEX is connecting all the different places and creating a single virtual view, but creates a one click ability to actualize this virtual view. so maybe "virtual" is not the right word for it

James

[jl777]

Can I store BTCD anywhere besides in an exchange, in the BTCD wallet, and in the NXT blockchain via MGW?

A fourth place would be in a telepod and I will finally be able finish that when InstantDEX is in maintenance mode.

My new "wireless" plugin architecture is working pretty well so far, so by the end of next week I should have pretty much all the current code base into these plugins that are dynamically loadable and easier to test and more reliable

James