Malaysia Airlines MH17 Crash: Boeing 777 Crashed in Ukraine Near Russian Border

[Balthazar]

but here in Russia your message could be a reason for administrative case and pretty painful fine. I have no idea is there any punishment for defamation in your local Administrative Code.

smell freedom of speech  

Smell justice.

From Article 17 of the United Nations International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights:

1. No one shall be subjected to arbitrary or unlawful interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to unlawful attacks on his honour and reputation.
2. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.

These statements were implemented by UN member nations in local laws. There are some of them:

Austria
Articles 111 and 115 of the Criminal Code.

Belgium
Chapter V of the Belgian Penal Code, Articles 443 to 453.

Canada
Article 296-1 of the Canadian Criminal Code

Denmark
Criminal Code (Chapter 24, Section 9).

Germany
§185 - 188 of the Germany's Criminal Code

Sweden
Chapter 5 of the Criminal Code

People's Republic of China
Article 246 of the Criminal Law.

Republic of China (Taiwan)
Article 310 of the Criminal Code.

United States
There are no defamation law on the federal level. However, 19 states and 2 territories have such laws, there are some of them:

• Colorado Revised Statutes, §18-13-105
• Florida Statutes, § 836.01–836.11
• Washington Revised Code, 9.58.010

It should be clarified that the Criminal Code of Russian Federation doesn't provide any articles about libel and defamation. There is an article in the Penal Code, so I think you will agree that administrative penalty is much more preferable in comparison with criminal case. It seems that you've lost again due to publication of another unfounded statement... You are used to encounter such hardships, ain't you?

[gmx95]

No many strange things in this story: Malaysian plane again, diverted to the war zone by the flight controllers; fake videos that appeared before or straight after the crash - all this is too fishy.

[bryant.coleman]

No many strange things in this story: Malaysian plane again, diverted to the war zone by the flight controllers; fake videos that appeared before or straight after the crash - all this is too fishy.

And the Ukrainian authorities identified that it was the Buk missile system which felled the plane just minutes after the crash, even before the rebels located the wreckage on ground.

[Nemo1024]

Well, actually it seems that no government is respecting individual freedoms nowadays. We see disrespect to citizens all the time, from each and every government, so, I wouldn't waste my time to naively defend either sides of the official stories.

There's no such thing as free press anywhere when it's clear that the main news vehicles are always defending their governments propaganda with few (if any) exceptions.

(In case of radio/TV, for example) As long as official government issued licence is mandatory, there will be a reason for this lack of objectivity. But there are still plenty of other reasons for the corrupt journalism everywhere.

To have access to plural points of view, in such scenario, is the best option, as long as each individual is capable to clearly reason and form their own opinion. Free and honest talks and discussions are very important here.

The fact is, the corrupt governors all conspire, all the time, lying to their citizens. That's the way it is. Maybe it was easier to their propaganda machines to brainwash the people in the past, but in today's world, with the Internet, and being so easy and instant, the communication and the spread of "real" information. They have more and more troubles.

No one can be sure it there's a conspiracy plot going on, but there is never enough attention, questioning and caution, especially if we turn to History and learn with all the other awful opportunities that governments had to create justifications and forge enemies in order to justify their own evil intentions. So many are the examples, not only the 9/11 WTC with all it's badly told story (that we all have "witnessed"):

Once the Foreign Secretary of England, Sir Edward Grey asked Woodrow Wilson's top adviser and mentor, Colonel Edward House, “What will America do if the Germans sink an ocean liner with American passengers on board?” and House answered, “I believe that a flame of indignation would sweep the United States and that by itself would be sufficient to carry us into the war.” Soon afterwards, the Lusitania sinking, with 1,200 killed, including 128 Americans, was then the "justification" for the US government to openly enter WWI.

BTW, with the fiat ponzi scheme implosion approaching, it seems that a "good" war is becoming necessary for them.

This is the best assessment I've read so far.

A friend imparted the following wisdom the other day:



Sometimes I get this feeling that whatever you try to say, state the bloody obvious, there will still be some shadowing figure somewhere saying in Palpatine's voice "Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen".

In the case of KAL007 it took 12 years from the time it got shot down in 1983 for truly independent researchers sifting though archives in Japan and witness account to realise that in truth 4 missiles were fired and at least 4 planes got shot down on that night, 3 of the planes being from US Airforce, and that KAL007 fell much further south.

Now I also have a suspicion that trusting any conclusion from current investigations would be premature, and that we won't know what really happened until 20-50 years later.

By the way, I collected some of the theories and links to resources in a post here: http://stanislavs.org/malaysia-mh17-down-theories-in-abandon/

A few news items from Russian channels:

SkyNews apologised for their reporter who started sifting through a victim's belongings:
http://ria.ru/world/20140721/1016844852.html

Kerry blames Russia for providing the resistance with Buk:
http://1prime.ru/News/20140721/788635755.html

WAR Rhetoric: Republicans urge Obama to stop being careful with Russia:
http://ria.ru/world/20140721/1016853345.html

WAR Rhetoric: Great Britain will push for sanctions against Russian military exports:
http://top.rbc.ru/politics/21/07/2014/937703.shtml

(As an aside to the news above: After Obama banned Kalashnikovs in US, the demand for them in the USA grew:
http://itar-tass.com/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/1331022?utm_medium=rss20 )

Dutch experts arrived to Donetsk to investigate the crash (finally!)
http://www.gazeta.ru/social/news/2014/07/21/n_6327265.shtml

PRD reported about the state of the black boxes. Visually they are in excellent condition, there is no damage to them:
http://www.interfax.ru/world/386827

The bodies of 251 passengers, as well as 66 body parts were found:
http://lenta.ru/news/2014/07/21/bodies/

[needbmw]

Ukraine responsible for airspace safety: IATA

Ukraine bears responsibility for keeping its airspace open to flights like the doomed MH17, says the chief executive of the International Air Transport Association, Tony Tyler.
“Airlines depend on governments and air traffic control authorities to advise which air space is available for flight, and they plan within those limits,” he said.

“It is very similar to driving a car. If the road is open, you assume that it is safe. If it’s closed you find an alternate route.”
However, an industry source said in this case, the “road” was more like a toll road, as the cash-strapped Ukrainian government was receiving overflight fees for each commercial flight above its territory and therefore had a financial incentive to keep the airspace open as long as possible.
Three days before MH17 was apparently shot down by a surface-to-air missile, Ukraine had raised the minimum altitude open for commercial flights over the eastern part of its country to 32,000 feet, from 26,000 feet previously after a military cargo jet was downed at 21,000 feet.

The Malaysian Transport Minister, Liow Tiong Lai, said on Saturday that the pilot had requested to fly at 35,000 feet over Ukraine’s airspace but was told by air traffic control to fly at 33,000 feet.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/aviation/ukraine-responsible-for-airspace-safety-iata-20140720-zuzmp.html

[Nemo1024]

A site of a freelance journalist:
http://jimstonefreelance.com/

Interesting observation of "DNA results":

DNA PROOF SUBMITTED AT LEAST A WEEK TOO SOON PROVES IDENTIFICATION OF PASSENGERS FALSE
Toni wrote:

Today I picked up my sister who flew in from the netherlands. She tells me that a team of doctors from the Netherlands went to the crash site and identified people on board as the people who checked in flight MH17. Including DNA proof. I told her I doubt that is possible in such a short time.

My response:
DNA identification requires a pre crash sample to be available for all passengers. There is NO WAY they could have located even ONE pre crash sample this quickly and then used it to identify even ONE passenger in only two days. The machines may go that fast with really good samples if you start from day one with both samples in the lab, but HOW, with passengers from Malaysia, China, Australia, the Netherlands and many other places could that happen? ANSWER: THERE WAS NO DNA IDENTIFICATION and now that this lie has been spun WAY TOO SOON, THERE NEVER WILL BE. Just like when Israel verifies the DNA of a "suicide bomber" and bulldozes the neighborhood within two hours of a "bombing", such lies are for the foolish. DO NOT be counted among them.

If a super sleuth crack team of experts was deployed and had the best of the best gear ON SITE IN UKRAINE, and a complimentary team ready to pounce right on the home of a crash victim you might see the first true result in FIVE DAYS if they got VERY LUCKY, with most in a week and a half, and many never identified at all because no pre crash sample was there to be had. Why would there be a rush to report this anyway (true or not), other than to steer public opinion?

[deisik]

And about this Ukrainian x Russian thing, by looking deeply into History we get the Slavs Gran-Duchy of Moscow against the Slavs of the Kingdom of Kiev; in other words, whatever those guys are doing there is called fratricide, taken Russians and Ukrainians are based upon the very same people.

Methinks, you're confusing time epochs. When there were "the Slavs of the Kingdom of Kiev" (Kievan Rus'), there hadn't yet been the Grand Duchy of Moscow (the latter established in 1283). And vice versa, when there was the Grand Duchy of Moscow, there had no longer been Kievan Rus (the latter demolished in 1240 by Tatars)...

If my History books are right, the Grand Duchy of Moscow is where the Kievian Rus' Slavs regroup, that make you guys the very same people and that's still fratricide.
On some other events, like the Ukrainian genocide, it was about Stalin, who didn't gave Russians an easy time too. That goes around an assassin up to kill anyone who was against him, regardless of origin.

Okay, now at least you don't say that it all started with the Kievian Rus Slavs vs the Grand Duchy of Moscow thing. In respect to the current fratricide, you are evidently right, since the people living in Novorossia is ethnically the same people living in the rest of Ukraine (with some minor reservations). This is evidently not true in respect to their views...

[BCEmporium]

Are you really that stupid? Hmm.. let's see: 80% of world lives in more or less homogenic populated areas/cities/countries - guy on bitcointalk thinks his Office of 5 different nationalities is the world norm. 

Yes. US and Europe experiment on multi-culture society failed miserable.

1st I don't think the World is represented at my office, it's just that people now travels unlike in the past. So those 80% are shrinking at a large pace.

2nd the "experiment" is far from failed. The "homogeneous world" is the one failing, but unlike the multi-cultural, it suffers from lack of information, censored or produced news, so it looks like a paradise, but it is a North Korean style "paradise".

[deisik]

Is that a black box?

Can't say if this is a black box, but the guy holding the toy seems to be of Ossetian descent ("you reap what you sow")...

[fluidjax]

Is that a black box?

Can't say if this is a black box, but the guy holding the toy seems to be of Ossetian descent ("you reap what you sow")...

Russian TV channel in English (RT English) is showing this video clip in full. The man holding up the doll, later bows his head in respect and then crosses his chest in Christian cross. This is all being hyped as 'showing no respect'.. but its simply not true, and is being taken out of context by people with an agenda.

[Nemo1024]

The freedom fighters are at least trying to preserve the evidence, while Kiev hopes. for the evidence to decompose beyond recognition

Donetsk militia put MH17 bodies on train amidst concerns over intl experts’ absence
http://rt.com/news/174200-international-experts-crash-site/

Also, the timeline:
http://rt.com/news/173628-malaysian-plane-crash-ukraine/

08:59 GMT:

Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte says the country’s authorities would prefer to bring MH17 crash bodies back to the Netherlands for identification purposes, Reuters reports. Rutte also says it remains unclear where the black boxes are, adding that he agreed with Russian President Vladimir Putin that the boxes must go to the International Civil Aviation Organization for analysis.

In the meantime:

Putin: Taskforce at Malaysia MH17 crash site not enough, full-scale intl team needed
http://rt.com/news/174268-ukraine-mh17-crash-putin/

The tragic Malaysian MH17 flight crash must not be politicised and the international experts on the scene should be able to carry out their work in complete safety, Russian President Vladimir Putin said.

“There are already representatives of Donetsk and Lugansk working there, as well as representatives of the emergencies ministry of Ukraine and others. But this is not enough,” Putin said officially commenting on the tragic event on Sunday.

“This task force is not enough,” Putin emphasized. “We need more, we need a fully representative group of experts to be working at the site under the guidance of ICAO, the relevant international commission.”

So, the only one strying to do anything constructive so far, are the representatives of Donetsk People's Republic and Russia.

Who is procrastinating?

“We’ve been inviting them for three days, but so far no one has come except for four experts from Ukraine,” Kavtaradze told RT on Sunday.

A day earlier DPR’s PM, Aleksandr Boroday, accused the international community of lacking enthusiasm to investigate the plane crash.

“Several dozen experts are currently in Kiev,” he said. “Can they please come here faster? We are surprised and frankly angered that we have to keep the area untouched while we are waiting for them for so long.”

...

"We declare that we guarantee security of international experts at the site of the tragedy if Kiev agrees to a ceasefire,” the statement reads as cited by RIA Novosti. “We call on Kiev to immediately sign this agreement with DPR at least for the period of time while experts are going to work at the site of the plane crash.”

[Paya]

A day earlier DPR’s PM, Aleksandr Boroday, accused the international community of lacking enthusiasm to investigate the plane crash.

So called international community is obviously too busy waging stupid propaganda war against Putin to pay attention to such trivial matters as, for example, sending professional investigators to crash site and trying to find out solid proofs who is responsible.

[sana8410]

So far, Vladimir Putin of Russia has stated that it is Ukraine's fault because it happened on Ukrainian soil and Ukraine should be responsible for what happens on its soil. He also stated that if Ukraine hadn't conducted military operations in its east then none of this would have happened.

It's interesting to note how many times the word "Blayt", translated from Russian to English as "Whore", was used in those audios of the separatists talking about the shootdown of a civilian plane.

[umair127]

A day earlier DPR’s PM, Aleksandr Boroday, accused the international community of lacking enthusiasm to investigate the plane crash.

So called international community is obviously too busy waging stupid propaganda war against Putin to pay attention to such trivial matters as, for example, sending professional investigators to crash site and trying to find out solid proofs who is responsible.

It seems that the Buk launcher came from Russia. I initially thought that the launcher was a Ukrainian one that was stolen by pro-Russian separatists. I would think they would need some formal training with the system before putting it into operation. Probably something they received from the Russians. Apparently the launcher used to shoot down the Malaysian airliner has been moved back to Russia.

[hologram]

It seems that the Buk launcher came from Russia. I initially thought that the launcher was a Ukrainian one that was stolen by pro-Russian separatists. I would think they would need some formal training with the system before putting it into operation. Probably something they received from the Russians. Apparently the launcher used to shoot down the Malaysian airliner has been moved back to Russia.

Some rebel are ex-Ukrainian solider, they have training...

[BCEmporium]

So far, Vladimir Putin of Russia has stated that it is Ukraine's fault because it happened on Ukrainian soil and Ukraine should be responsible for what happens on its soil. He also stated that if Ukraine hadn't conducted military operations in its east then none of this would have happened.

It's interesting to note how many times the word "Blayt", translated from Russian to English as "Whore", was used in those audios of the separatists talking about the shootdown of a civilian plane.

Those Putin's words are a joke! Basically he says "if Ukraine does what we want this wouldn't happen"... Moscow has to review its bullying strategy to become credible.
It looks like USSR drop a lot of landmines to keep the former Republics under Moscow. Ossetia at Georgia, Donetsk/Crimea at Ukraine, Transnistria at Moldova, wonder how many more of these "ethnic landmines" are there...

[Nemo1024]

It looks like USSR drop a lot of landmines to keep the former Republics under Moscow. Ossetia at Georgia, Donetsk/Crimea at Ukraine, Transnistria at Moldova, wonder how many more of these "ethnic landmines" are there...

The landmines are there because Soviet leader saw it as their right to give Russian land away right left and center.

By the way, you know that Southern Denmark was for 60 years a part of Prussian Germany, but chose to reunify with the historical country of origin? Those "landmines" as you put them, will only explode as long as some party, interested in destabilising the region and defaming Russia, decides to pull the trigger.

Russian President Vladimir Putin Address re. Malaysian Airliner Catastrophe in Ukraine
http://futuristrendcast.wordpress.com/2014/07/21/address-by-russian-president-vladimir-putin-re-malaysian-airliner-catastrophe-in-ukraine-72114/

I have received a number of questions from frustrated readers regarding what some think is a weak response to the accusations that Russia is responsible for downing the Malaysian airliner in Ukraine. We all know that, as Goebbels said (or was it Machiavelli? Not much difference really), so the lie would be believed, it has to be monstrous. Ukraine and US are the faithful students of Hitler, Goebbels and other fascists. They live by it.

Here is what one reader says: “It looks like Russia is losing the info war over the Malaysian plane, perhaps badly. Has Putin given any speeches about it? He could have said “The US pulled off a putsch, installed a government full of radicals who idolize the Nazis, and want Russian speakers expelled or treated like dirt. All as a means to harm Russia. Then they regularly flew fighter jets next to commercial planes on their bombing runs. So, even if the Nazi resistance army shot this plane, which is doubtful, the responsibility lies with those who control Kiev.” Not only did Putin need to say this, but the Russian government needed to buy ad space around the world for this. In Kuala Lumpur, Tokyo, Amsterdam, and Berlin. You have seen some of the Anglo media; it is talking about a world war. Truth might have defeated the Nazis, but not before tens of millions died. I have read many who say that Russia or the separatist army must be guilty because of their responses.”

...


Russia is restrained because they are waiting for the Malaysian crash commission to start working, and to make their own conclusions. Because, if said commission is even remotely unbiased, there can only be one conclusion: Kiev shot down the poor Malaysian airplane.

The last I’ve heard, the Kiev junta is keeping the investigative commission in Kiev, where they have to sit and ‘negotiate’. Negotiate what exactly?

Incidentally, Putin is still calling on the "international community" to investigate, but no one wants to listen:
Putin: Taskforce at Malaysia MH17 crash site not enough, full-scale intl team needed
http://rt.com/news/174268-ukraine-mh17-crash-putin/

[umair127]

If Ukraine operates these weapons systems as well, could the pro-Russian separatists have stolen one of them and used it?

[hologram]

Those Putin's words are a joke! Basically he says "if Ukraine does what we want this wouldn't happen"... Moscow has to review its bullying strategy to become credible.
It looks like USSR drop a lot of landmines to keep the former Republics under Moscow. Ossetia at Georgia, Donetsk/Crimea at Ukraine, Transnistria at Moldova, wonder how many more of these "ethnic landmines" are there...

Yes, Russian say USSR time is over but they still use their social engineering plan to keep the power on foreign country...

[sana8410]

If Ukraine operates these weapons systems as well, could the pro-Russian separatists have stolen one of them and used it?

Partially right. They tried from some time to improve their anti-air arsenal since the rebels main losses came from air hits, shellings bombings and so on. Now if they got parts of that missile system or a entire one, who the fuck knows, anything is possible. But ukraineans did it. Common sense. Personally im almost sure of it.

ps: the rebels got light support from Russians as i know. No way missiles and shit like that. It was an incident created by Ukraine because recently they foulishly started an open conflict with russians and from there their fate was sealed. What will happen, remains to be seen, but from this point on i can say not even concrete proofs would make me belief otherwise.

ps2: american media is pure shit. The truth? about this event? can be found, who the fuck knows where, maybe in another galaxy but not on cnn....