[ANN][FAIR] FairCoin - for a fair economy, featuring proof-of-cooperation

[Anduril_FotW]

What would be really cool is to have an option in the wallet were you could automatically donate all your minted coins to a general fund.
And that everybody who donates to this fund will have a vote option in their wallet with which they can vote to which projects the total fund money should be allocated.

That's probably a very difficult thing to implement, but it would be very FAIR  

[Sebastien256]

Not sure that DPoS would be wise in the context of faircoin. Faircoin is somehow already centralised with faircoop (im not saying that this is bad), but DPoS would make it even more. In the end, DPoS will make it a political game to control the staking. Also, DPoS seems to me like a ponzi scheme, where staker dump on others who invest in the coin.

I think that PoS protect the network more than DPoS. And for the rich getting richer with current faircoin PoS, that argument doesnt not make sense with an inflationnary coin like faircoin. In the end, everyone loss value in the long run, but im ok with that since inflation promote spending. Overall, argument of rich getting richer is ok for coin like Nxt which number of coin is constant in time but not with faircoin.

It doesn't make sense for most FairCoin users to currently run a full staking node.  And only really makes sense for large wallet holders to do so.  Which means only they'd benefit from the staking and the largest of the largest wallet holders would benefit the most.

But running a faircoin node is very easy and cheap. Everyone can do it and it protect the network. Staking is a small reward for doing so, like getting few cents every few days. By removing staking, less node will protect the network as there is no incentitive.  Network security is important otherwise it can open doors to attack vectors.

[matthewh3]

What would be really cool is to have an option in the wallet were you could automatically donate all your minted coins to a general fund.
And that everybody who donates to this fund will have a vote option in their wallet with which they can vote to which projects the total fund money should be allocated.

That's probably a very difficult thing to implement, but it would be very FAIR  

Maybe a multisig loaning of coins to be used in staking for a set amount of time could work.  There's been a BIP that will only allow a predefined transaction after a certain block.  So coins could be tide up in a coops staking wallet until a certain agreed block passes.  When the coins would auto TX back to your wallet.  Also maybe a multisig deposit could help things.

[matthewh3]

It doesn't make sense for most FairCoin users to currently run a full staking node.  And only really makes sense for large wallet holders to do so.  Which means only they'd benefit from the staking and the largest of the largest wallet holders would benefit the most.

But running a faircoin node is very easy and cheap. Everyone can do it and it protect the network. Staking is a small reward for doing so, like getting few cents every few days. By removing staking, less node will protect the network as there is no incentitive.  Network security is important otherwise it can open doors to attack vectors.

Yes but most computer users are not PC users anymore and especially so in the 'global south'.  While you can only stake with a PC be it a Rpi even.

[Anduril_FotW]

What would be really cool is to have an option in the wallet were you could automatically donate all your minted coins to a general fund.
And that everybody who donates to this fund will have a vote option in their wallet with which they can vote to which projects the total fund money should be allocated.

That's probably a very difficult thing to implement, but it would be very FAIR  

Maybe a multisig loaning of coins to be used in staking for a set amount of time could work.  There's been a BIP that will only allow a predefined transaction after a certain block.  So coins could be tide up in a coops staking wallet until a certain agreed block passes.  When the coins would auto TX back to your wallet.  Also maybe a multisig deposit could help things.

That would also be a very good option !
To loan out your coins to the GF so they can stake with it for a project you want to support.
Sound really good  

[Sebastien256]

It doesn't make sense for most FairCoin users to currently run a full staking node.  And only really makes sense for large wallet holders to do so.  Which means only they'd benefit from the staking and the largest of the largest wallet holders would benefit the most.

But running a faircoin node is very easy and cheap. Everyone can do it and it protect the network. Staking is a small reward for doing so, like getting few cents every few days. By removing staking, less node will protect the network as there is no incentitive.  Network security is important otherwise it can open doors to attack vectors.

Yes but most computer users are not PC users anymore and especially so in the 'global south'.  While you can only stake with a PC be it a Rpi even.

Ho well anyway, I think faircoin will eventuallty moving away from PoS, as thokon00 said. 

[smartaction]

Once the market sees the potential rich pickings there someone will set up an exchange with leveraged margin trading for faircoin.  There's actually no way to stop it and especially so with open network peer to peer decentralised cryptocurrencies.  It's just matter of who and when starts it.  Although it may take a good while yet.  Bitcoin itself has only had one public leveraged margins trading site Bitfinex up to now.  Although that only offers bitcoin and litecoin leveraged margin trading.  And now Poleniex has followed and open up leveraged market trading for four cryptocurrencies.  As long term market cap's and trading volumes increase more altcoins will inevitably get leveraged margin trading markets. 

Not trying to be rude here, but you seem to be obsessed with exchanges, scam coins etc .. relax buddy.

NP at all, these are only my views and I can understand that a lot of FairCoop supporters are not very comfortable with the ethos of high risk and complex trading vehicles.  Also FairCoin itself was probably considered a scam coin also by the overwhelming majority of cryptocurrency enthusiasts until very very recently.  And it'll probably still yet take a quite a long time to bring the majority of them round.  The price and the market cap may be very high currently, but the long term average trading volume is still relatively very small.  And long term high average trading volume is usually a better indicator of an altcoins ecosystem health than a high price and market cap alone.  So as I said it'll still probably take a good while yet to bring round most skeptics to FairCoin.  Although I am a big long term fan of FairCoops future plans and personally think it has a very bright future.  Hence why I've been supporting it since last year.

As you said, this cryptocurrency enthusiasts relates volume with legitimacy. Perhaps the question here is that Faircoin works different that any other currency
so, the paramethers to evaluate the volume needs to be different.

Most of the cryptocurrencies volume is created by short time and daily traders, buying and selling all the time when they wants to get some value or cut losses. But as far i see, still there are not daily traders in faircoins
So the faircoin volume is smaller, because comes from real investors, that buy for saving or thinking in the fairmarket, and the (thin) sellers are some people that needs to get out and convert some money...

And how many amounts are coming from euro/dollar money today to  Peercoin or Dogecoin or Nextcoin for example ?
I would like to see that volume analisys   

In this sense, the low comparative volume with other of the 20 bigger marketcap  currencies for me could be a positive indicator more than a negative one,
because it means that the way to go meanwhile we are going increasing the buying power is going to have a fast consecuence in the prices, as already is happening.
For me is funny to see how Blackcoin needs to move 100 times more volume than faircoin to create a growth further tan 2 Milions dollars.  Perhaps the reason of that is Faircoin have the potential to go x 100 more in value if reaches this volume, that others not have at all ?

[smartaction]

Getfaircoin.net price has moved from 1 € = 26 FAIR to 1 = 23 FAIR

At the same time faircoin moved in bittrex from 18500 to 21995 satoshis, and the buys in getfaircoin are
pretty stable..., so we need to move the price, still looking for some level where the sell pressure becomes enought for the current buying force.

[Mandy1749]

i have a question.
if some day ,there have no sell order on bitrrex any more.or not enough sell on bitrrex
or if there have 100000 FAIR buys in getfaircoin .  but there only have 20000 FAIR sells in bitrrex.
then what will happen ?

[witten01]

best of luck on getting faircoin to attention on Ouishare festival

[smartaction]

best of luck on getting faircoin to attention on Ouishare festival

Yeah! You can vote until tomorrow for faircoop here
http://awards.ouishare.net/2015/vote/

(online votes will mean 25% of the results, physical votes will mean 75% )

[drakandar]

https://fair.coop/docs/new-faircoop-startup-p2p-equity-crowdfunding-and-liquidity-fund/


FairCoin 2.0 will be an important blockchain-based innovation to allow the Faircoin blockchain to function, secured with ‘proof of cooperation’, and bring to the world a really functional alternative to the current unfair systems that are based on competition between nodes: ‘proof of work’ and ‘proof of stake’.
(A link to the white paper on this project will be added).
interesting...  

Ho well anyway, I think faircoin will eventuallty moving away from PoS, as thokon00 said.  

Any form of PoS will inherently benefit the most for those with the biggest pile of coins.  It was bit of an eye opener for me, but actually any form of interest is debt based: The whole point of the banks is that they offer interest over money so that they can make more profit on loans. Even without the actual loan on the other side counter balancing the interest rate, PoS will put pressure on the market and decrease a coins value. You can actually see this happening in large with MintCoin and ZeitCoin which have a huge PoS reward.

A form of decentralised Proof of Coop (PoC?) is more towards a human process to acknowledge the cooperation you have done with a reward. The model needs to be simple as well as uncrackable w/o the need to bring out a new piece of software whenever a trusted node (read human) is added, removed or disappears (for health or trust reasons). The biggest challenge will be that people (we possibly even may trust) will try game the system and we need to be prepared for that.

Last but not least; I'm not sure if we should completely get rid of PoS, since it's a fairly cheap way to generate transactions which secure the network. We may want to just trim down the pos reward to the bare minimum or a fixed value just as we're doing now with PoW.

@smartaction; I'm looking forward to the complete whitepaper.

[smartaction]

i have a question.
if some day ,there have no sell order on bitrrex any more.or not enough sell on bitrrex
or if there have 100000 FAIR buys in getfaircoin .  but there only have 20000 FAIR sells in bitrrex.
then what will happen ?

Haha, this question shows that you are seen like me how thin the sell order book,  is  

Well there are personal reserves that we can use if needed, not only in case that there are not enough sells
but in case that the sells are too much expensive. Thanks to that we can cover the getfaircoin.net service without being too much worried

By the way, if some one needs to make a big sell sometime ask me, and i could manage that with getfaircoin....  

[witten01]

best of luck on getting faircoin to attention on Ouishare festival

Yeah! You can vote until tomorrow for faircoop here
http://awards.ouishare.net/2015/vote/

(online votes will mean 25% of the results, physical votes will mean 75% )

allready voted...


twice 

[Mandy1749]

best of luck on getting faircoin to attention on Ouishare festival

Yeah! You can vote until tomorrow for faircoop here
http://awards.ouishare.net/2015/vote/

(online votes will mean 25% of the results, physical votes will mean 75% )

allready voted...


twice 

i voted for Three times

[ShopemNL]

Lots of people using faircoin to pay there bills @ BitBill thats just great!

[Sebastien256]

https://fair.coop/docs/new-faircoop-startup-p2p-equity-crowdfunding-and-liquidity-fund/


FairCoin 2.0 will be an important blockchain-based innovation to allow the Faircoin blockchain to function, secured with ‘proof of cooperation’, and bring to the world a really functional alternative to the current unfair systems that are based on competition between nodes: ‘proof of work’ and ‘proof of stake’.
(A link to the white paper on this project will be added).
interesting...  

Ho well anyway, I think faircoin will eventuallty moving away from PoS, as thokon00 said.  

Any form of PoS will inherently benefit the most for those with the biggest pile of coins.  It was bit of an eye opener for me, but actually any form of interest is debt based: The whole point of the banks is that they offer interest over money so that they can make more profit on loans. Even without the actual loan on the other side counter balancing the interest rate, PoS will put pressure on the market and decrease a coins value. You can actually see this happening in large with MintCoin and ZeitCoin which have a huge PoS reward.

A form of decentralised Proof of Coop (PoC?) is more towards a human process to acknowledge the cooperation you have done with a reward. The model needs to be simple as well as uncrackable w/o the need to bring out a new piece of software whenever a trusted node (read human) is added, removed or disappears (for health or trust reasons). The biggest challenge will be that people (we possibly even may trust) will try game the system and we need to be prepared for that.

Last but not least; I'm not sure if we should completely get rid of PoS, since it's a fairly cheap way to generate transactions which secure the network. We may want to just trim down the pos reward to the bare minimum or a fixed value just as we're doing now with PoW.

@smartaction; I'm looking forward to the complete whitepaper.

Please, just make sure that any change will lead to an increase of security, any change that would reduce it should be avoid imo.

Also make sure the coin is somehow inflationnary because any debt in a deflationnary economy is very dangerous. I mean faircredit would not be the place where I would take credit if faircoin is deflationnary or near deflationnary.

[smartaction]

Okay, seriously: why is this coin $2M?

Any volunteer to explain him why are we up to 2M, before we get 3M  ? 

[doremi]

Okay, seriously: why is this coin $2M?

Any volunteer to explain him why are we up to 2M, before we get 3M  ?  

don`t worry  about that actually:)...as a hero member he should be able to figure it out..lol

[thokon00]

Okay, seriously: why is this coin $2M?

I really understand that somebody who is new to FairCoin/FairCoop is overwhelmed with the fullness of projects, dedicated people, great ideas and with the vision all collaborators share: to build a new global economic system based on cooperation, ethics, solidarity and justice in our economic relations.

Read: https://fair.coop/faircoop/

regs
Thomas