[SHUTTING DOWN] [DiceBitco.in | BE THE BANK ! | 1% House Edge]

[Sickler]

To be clear, I may be new here but I have common sense and I know right from wrong

You are not new. You are BRAND new. However, ill answer

Its important to take feedback, either good or bad. In your case is bad, but ill accept it. However let me answer as well!

.For Dicebitcoin to be doing the right thing, you don't just refund the loses and a week later realize, oh I should refund the winnings too and forget about the original bet(talking about Stars case).

The second it came up and dialogue emerged, I agreed with both Stars and dooglus. And will rerun with that new scenario in mind.

To sum it all up, you can't refund someone after you've scammed them and expect your rep to be right back at where it was at it's prime.

To sum it up, I never heared a case of someone scamming AND after that, refunding. Whats the point to scam if you are to refund what you scammed in the first place??? Not to mention why to scam for couple hundeds of coins when you could scam for almost 10 thousand?

Rep is earned and you have ruined it for yourself forever.

That may be true. In case you missed it though, im not doing this for"reputation". Im refunding and making it right for everyone, because thats who I am, and thats how I feel it should be.

Thank you for correcting that with Stars.  Glad to see you are doing your best to refund.  I have no hard feelings on that issue it just seemed so clear to me.

[DiceBitcoin]

Thank you for correcting that with Stars.  Glad to see you are doing your best to refund.  I have no hard feelings on that issue it just seemed so clear to me.

No hard feelings at all Truth is it sounds more complicated than it is, but then again its 05:!6(yes i said i'll go to bed ~1h ago but shit happens ^__^ )

[suchmoon]

That means that everyone who did not divest when mateo won, didn’t lose a single satoshi and made a very nice return on top (let alone those that invested after mateos’ huge win and stayed invested until his bust).

To be honest your "explanation" leaves a lot to be desired, but the part that is particularly offending is this one.

You're making it sound that your complete failure to handle the situation didn't have any effect on investors' losses. You are forgetting that your site had lost the trust and faced with the extremely improbable high-roller many investors pulled out at a huge loss, 85% in many cases. There was also your own announcement that you will go "private", what do you think was the effect of that?

At the very least you could have publish the list of investments and divestments to show how many investors including yourself actually benefited from these events. I'm sure there are many other actions you could take to provide more transparency if you were really interested in that. But the fact that you are still choosing to blame "trolls" and other mythical creatures for your actions and making this feeble attempt to put a PR spin on the issue is telling me to stay far far away from your site and suggest to everyone to do the same.

[dooglus]

That means that everyone who did not divest when mateo won, didn’t lose a single satoshi and made a very nice return on top (let alone those that invested after mateos’ huge win and stayed invested until his bust).

To be honest your "explanation" leaves a lot to be desired, but the part that is particularly offending is this one.

You're making it sound that your complete failure to handle the situation didn't have any effect on investors' losses. You are forgetting that your site had lost the trust and faced with the extremely improbable high-roller many investors pulled out at a huge loss, 85% in many cases. There was also your own announcement that you will go "private", what do you think was the effect of that?

At the very least you could have publish the list of investments and divestments to show how many investors including yourself actually benefited from these events. I'm sure there are many other actions you could take to provide more transparency if you were really interested in that. But the fact that you are still choosing to blame "trolls" and other mythical creatures for your actions and making this feeble attempt to put a PR spin on the issue is telling me to stay far far away from your site and suggest to everyone to do the same.

I had intended to comment on that "didn’t lose a single satoshi" point as well, but was under pressure at the time to "get in the shower or we'll be late" and so forgot.

I'm pretty sure that anyone who stayed invested through the whole "mateo" adventure who have lost *plenty*. At the low point, investors were down 85% of their investment. In order to recover from 15% to 100% they would need the house to profit by more than 6 times the current bankroll amount, which was not less than 500 BTC when Mateo started losing. Since the house didn't make 3000 BTC of profit, I'm pretty sure any persistent investor suffered a massive loss from Mateo's play.

[suchmoon]

That means that everyone who did not divest when mateo won, didn’t lose a single satoshi and made a very nice return on top (let alone those that invested after mateos’ huge win and stayed invested until his bust).

To be honest your "explanation" leaves a lot to be desired, but the part that is particularly offending is this one.

You're making it sound that your complete failure to handle the situation didn't have any effect on investors' losses. You are forgetting that your site had lost the trust and faced with the extremely improbable high-roller many investors pulled out at a huge loss, 85% in many cases. There was also your own announcement that you will go "private", what do you think was the effect of that?

At the very least you could have publish the list of investments and divestments to show how many investors including yourself actually benefited from these events. I'm sure there are many other actions you could take to provide more transparency if you were really interested in that. But the fact that you are still choosing to blame "trolls" and other mythical creatures for your actions and making this feeble attempt to put a PR spin on the issue is telling me to stay far far away from your site and suggest to everyone to do the same.

I had intended to comment on that "didn’t lose a single satoshi" point as well, but was under pressure at the time to "get in the shower or we'll be late" and so forgot.

I'm pretty sure that anyone who stayed invested through the whole "mateo" adventure who have lost *plenty*. At the low point, investors were down 85% of their investment. In order to recover from 15% to 100% they would need the house to profit by more than 6 times the current bankroll amount, which was not less than 500 BTC when Mateo started losing. Since the house didn't make 3000 BTC of profit, I'm pretty sure any persistent investor suffered a massive loss from Mateo's play.

You're right, I keep forgetting this effect of the size of the bankroll even though it's been explained to me more than once. Bankroll was at 900+ when mateo started losing, and ended at ~1600. Not even double. So it turns out that some mysterious new investors who came in between mateo's win and loss benefited the most. Good for them.

[DiceBitcoin]

You're making it sound that your complete failure to handle the situation didn't have any effect on investors' losses. You are forgetting that your site had lost the trust and faced with the extremely improbable high-roller many investors pulled out at a huge loss, 85% in many cases. There was also your own announcement that you will go "private", what do you think was the effect of that?

Refunding at first step every user who ended up losing from his depositing coins, hault betting till I make sure the malicious code is removed and rolls are liek they should, and come after and refunding all skipped rolls? And all those, from my pocket without touching investors? Is that complete failire? My announcement said we will seek private funds(we didnt think site will be left with any bankroll after the inicdent) but we never said anything like"PULL YOUR FUNDS NOW, we are exiting crowdfunded in xx hours". Indeed the plan was to completely exit crowdfunded, however we took so many support tickets from investors with supportive comments, and that scenario didnt go viral at the end.

the fact that you are still choosing to blame "trolls" and other mythical creatures for your actions and making this feeble attempt to put a PR spin on the issue is telling me to stay far far away from your site and suggest to everyone to do the same.

I didnt blame anyone but ourselves for what happened. If you read actually my announcement, you would see I have included the absense from forum due to flaming and trolls in our mistakes. There is zero feeble attempt here, and far from PR move. The"wise"move as a "scammer" would be to shut down the site, let my "mateo" account bring BR to zero , and say"we went busted, sorry guys see you around". Let this thing cool down for few weeks/months and open a new site, under new domain/details/etc etc. Why to come and kick a dead horse? Feel free to stay away from the site. Most probably I would do the same if i was you.

[DiceBitcoin]

Here is the updated list as promised, including original stake!

The list with affected users and vouchers follows:



ID          USERNAME     TOTAL AFFECTED         ALREADY REFUNDED           WE OWE                 VOUCHER                                        EXTRA REFUND(with base bet returned as well)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
861       cuwirebeard          7.1556                     5.90107777                 1.25452223            DICE-OOMZ-RHAO-VVJM-NADM-VPID     0.804            DICE-OJZO-PEUN-KQLY-WDGR-KADQ
4153    chris.jakubowski    0.17653184                       0                          0.17653184            DICE-WRER-RGQN-WBQK-SAKG-YVCY  0.17653184     DICE-PYDZ-XJJD-INOK-VCMX-REWX
4433    presto                 0.92611544                       0                           0.92611544            DICE-SGXP-HDOH-NQIJ-OBHR-BSNH   0.22145          DICE-MNRT-AOJT-XSCZ-BXVV-UMLE
12599    RNG                   6.93989901                2.62806461                 4.3118344              DICE-IQPB-VQHY-KRQN-NJLW-LLRQ      1.0451           DICE-EYQD-SCYQ-XLBB-JBTA-PEOH
13835    Altitude             0.51368555                       0                          0.51368555            DICE-YVKB-WGVS-LROH-QUHU-QKNT    0.51368555    DICE-CWFF-VJDM-SYEV-KIYS-ZRBW
16189    andyazz            1.49798912                       0                          1.49798912            DICE-KTAW-CVNY-QCTR-BSBT-POYV     0.8192          DICE-RQGL-HIXB-AOOE-WDVV-KWBK
16511   marcellus_hand   1.23665803                        0                          1.23665803            DICE-GLXJ-BGHY-DNHT-JPXB-UKCD     2.54803968     DICE-TVMN-LBFF-VXFN-QOMJ-YVTV
16657   kinki                   1.234375                          0                          1.234375               DICE-POMK-UXEH-EACC-IYDC-YHHK    0.3125            DICE-MCON-KPUZ-CIOT-NHIH-WBVR
18541   coty_predovic     27.64702008                     20                        7.64702008             DICE-IEZN-HFKV-OEUX-RTXE-WPBD    1.03255611      DICE-ZCVC-TOUX-YDZB-HXXF-ICLV
18544   Degenerate            0.4                                0                            0.4                    DICE-RVYD-WUQQ-NTPH-YIEJ-TJKH     0.4                 DICE-TLEA-XXQN-NCSZ-RGMW-JFVZ
19864   marie_lemke         55.18                            35.1                         20.08                  DICE-WFQT-YWBJ-JFSC-KLLM-LROU        6.2              DICE-NHLI-XYNK-YUYW-JXWK-GDFX
19914  lewis.aufderhar     1.781328                          0                           1.781328              DICE-CIFJ-FTUE-OSIP-MYIU-RPWD       1.20768          DICE-YTKK-HMUJ-OSDU-BIEB-OOFO
20178  esperanza.ritchie  1.74797619                       0                        1.74797619             DICE-HHWZ-LVKF-ZVMM-HRLK-UJQD      1.36994048     DICE-QYGY-QTJD-DADC-ULKF-HMDD
10637  themikego           1.50665557                 2.85665558                       0  
18165  Focus                   7.5                          8.00258683                       0
6769    finnile                  2.80773526                    2                           0.80773526   DICE-XVHT-HNEV-UTNG-TNCL-ZVZG                                                                                                      
16416  James                       7                       14.3792809                        0

Note vouchers are bind to account, meaning only the spesific userid/username can claim it!

I will be afk almost whole day due to some family situations. I will try to get back to any replies/conserns later at night.

[Gws24]

First off I want to say it is great you are doing the right thing although I would have wished you had done it from the start and hadn't stopped communicating. Especially after stopping communication and the unlikely run by Mateo I was leaning more and more towards scam and I think you could have avoided that by doing this from the start (as well as halting all betting for a longer period).

I used the voucher and cashed out most of it (still a gambler so left .11 in there and lost it  ): https://blockchain.info/tx-index/d075e8c6fdec8307853e1822e94a7ada3848e02d19c0042129abe51d168ffd4d.



The second thing I want to say is that you might want to refund people directly to their emergency address if after a certain amount of time, say a month, they haven't used the voucher. I myself didn't put an emailadres in my account and only learned of this because I follow the threads here but not everyone will be doing that.

EDIT: While I was making this post Dicebitco updated the vouchers; I withdrew the extra 1 btc as well: https://blockchain.info/tx-index/6e449cbe3635854f73e3839873eeded8af6d56d47303c82cfb8d7e20655d2060

EDIT2: You should really find a fix for the lack of miners fee. I understand the reason for this and the transaction will confirm (first one already has) but it is just, what is the word i'm looking for here, annoying.

[jaysabi]

As far as I'm concerned at this point, there are just three points I'd like to make.

1) You've done the right thing with reimbursing skipped winning nonces. I don't think anyone here anticipated it. I give you credit for doing the right thing.

2) I'm tired of the Mateo conspiracy theory. I believed Mateo was an inside job, but like everyone else here I had nothing to base it on except suspicion. The difference was that I wouldn't go so far as to be repeating it as established truth like some of the idiots in this thread who think that improbability and impossibility are the same thing, and then list a bunch of garbage nonsense math to prove how right they were, which again didn't prove anything about impossibility. At this point, I could continue to believe Mateo was an inside job and that you then pretended to have him lose it all back just so you could reimburse skipped nonses and make a comeback because your intention is to scam everyone in the future for real this time (when you had a chance to do so the first time and didn't), but that particular conspiracy theory is getting more and more ridiculous. Bottom line, I no longer believe Mateo was an inside job, though I do not rule out the possibility that he was and you're just a brilliant chess player and have duped me. I will be operating under the assumption from this point forward that he was legit.

3) The only troubling aspect for me at this point is the "third developer." If you won't name him, he's just a shadowy scapegoat. He may exist, but without naming him I have to assume he doesn't. What that leaves me with is that your site purposefully skipped winning nonces and cheated players. Yes, you've now made it right, but that's only because you were found out. Apologizing and rectifying the situation after you're found out is the bare minimum you are expected to do. Without naming the third developer, your flaw isn't assumed to be just not checking the malicious code before it went live; it is assumed that your flaw was you coded your site to be malicious. And then you were caught. And eventually you tried to make everything right, BUT YOUR SITE WAS RIGGED AND WE HAVE TO ASSUME YOU DID IT ON PURPOSE because there is zero reason to believe otherwise. And your refusal to name the developer is just crazy to me because you're protecting a guy who, if he exists, flat out tried to steal tens of thousands of dollars- upwards of hundreds of thousands, or even millions depending on how long the con ran- from players you promised to be honest to.

As you can tell, #3 is my sticking point. I can ultimately forgive the skipped nonces now that they are repaid (if the third developer story checks out) and I can get beyond the increasingly crazy Mateo conspiracy theory. But I can not trust your site, or advise anyone to trust your site, until there is a reason to believe the initial fault of your website was truly some rogue asshole, and not YOU.

I give you credit for reimbursing the skipped nonces, and for coming back to the forum. No one here thought you would do either, including me, so you've done a lot by doing so. But mate, please come clean with us all the way. It's the only way to restore your reputation.

[jaysabi]

On another point, there were folks at some point leaving negative trust for people who had a sig for DB up because those people didn't share the opinion that Mateo was an inside job and DB scammed everyone. First, leaving negative trust because someone doesn't immediately jump to the same conclusion you do is a shady way to operate. It should not be how that system works. Second, there is now enough information out here to warrant someone's belief that DB was legit the whole time, even if you yourself don't share that opinion. I hope whoever it was leaving willy nilly negative trust will remove it now.

Bottom line, YOUR suspicion that something shady is going on is not a justification or cause to leave negative feedback for someone who doesn't share your beliefs. Let's keep this system honorable and not completely arbitrary.

[dooglus]

P.S.2 If possible please bitcoininformation and dooglus inform me about the signature campaign (who got paid, who is crossed out etc.) so I can finalize the payments at end of the month. Having said that, we are back and I do apologize for 10 days bsence.

Here's a short version:

You told us to pay people using the escrowed coins. I tried asking a couple of times why you wouldn't be paying yourself, but got no answer from you. I decided that the best thing to do was to assume that you wouldn't be paying, and to just pay everyone with the escrowed 10 BTC at the end of the month.

There was a whole bunch of drama, which you can read on the threads if you care, with some people thinking we should "end the campaign" (as if that's something we could do) and others thinking we should pay at the end of the month. bitcoininformation couldn't stand it any more, was finding it all very stressful, and decided he would pay out everyone for the posts they had made so far. That was some time around the 10th of the month. He paid out something like 4.7 BTC and sent me the rest. I said I would pay out remaining payments at the end of the month.

I made a new thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=778953
It follows on from bitcoininformation's thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=776227

It lists the people who are still in the campaign with valid signatures. It lists how many posts they had when the first payment (from bitcoininformation) went out, so you can work out how much more they're owed.

[beetcoin]

wha? were people paid already? i took my sig off a few days ago..

[shorena]

wha? were people paid already? i took my sig off a few days ago..

https://www.blocktrail.com/tx/8f1de07ddd69207a34f84e87371f63656f065005ca6383039fc782e997275126

 

[deisik]

On another point, there were folks at some point leaving negative trust for people who had a sig for DB up because those people didn't share the opinion that Mateo was an inside job and DB scammed everyone. First, leaving negative trust because someone doesn't immediately jump to the same conclusion you do is a shady way to operate. It should not be how that system works. Second, there is now enough information out here to warrant someone's belief that DB was legit the whole time, even if you yourself don't share that opinion. I hope whoever it was leaving willy nilly negative trust will remove it now.

Bottom line, YOUR suspicion that something shady is going on is not a justification or cause to leave negative feedback for someone who doesn't share your beliefs. Let's keep this system honorable and not completely arbitrary.

I wish that guy would be banned forever from here. To me, it is obvious that he had been paid to send all these blackmail PMs and leave negative trust on users. Add to this that he is a scammer himself and has nothing to lose (an honest man would never agree to a job like this), so what else could you expect? Micro is an accomplice of Stunna, a man who was too eager to jump at an opportunity to sling mud at DB. I wouldn't be surprised if he had a hand in all this... Cui prodest?

BTW, I never believed that DB was a scam

[waterpile]

wha? were people paid already? i took my sig off a few days ago..

yup, the sig was still continued even after the tragedy happened

[noma]

On another point, there were folks at some point leaving negative trust for people who had a sig for DB up because those people didn't share the opinion that Mateo was an inside job and DB scammed everyone. First, leaving negative trust because someone doesn't immediately jump to the same conclusion you do is a shady way to operate. It should not be how that system works. Second, there is now enough information out here to warrant someone's belief that DB was legit the whole time, even if you yourself don't share that opinion. I hope whoever it was leaving willy nilly negative trust will remove it now.

Bottom line, YOUR suspicion that something shady is going on is not a justification or cause to leave negative feedback for someone who doesn't share your beliefs. Let's keep this system honorable and not completely arbitrary.

I wish that guy would be banned forever from here. To me, it is obvious that he had been paid to send all these blackmail PMs and leave negative trust on users. Add to this that he is a scammer himself and has nothing to lose (an honest man would never agree to a job like this), so what else could you expect? Micro is an accomplice of Stunna, a man who was too eager to jump at an opportunity to sling mud at DB. I wouldn't be surprised if he had a hand in all this... Cui prodest?

BTW, I never believed that DB was a scam

You never believed DB was a scam even after it was proven to be so?

[deisik]

On another point, there were folks at some point leaving negative trust for people who had a sig for DB up because those people didn't share the opinion that Mateo was an inside job and DB scammed everyone. First, leaving negative trust because someone doesn't immediately jump to the same conclusion you do is a shady way to operate. It should not be how that system works. Second, there is now enough information out here to warrant someone's belief that DB was legit the whole time, even if you yourself don't share that opinion. I hope whoever it was leaving willy nilly negative trust will remove it now.

Bottom line, YOUR suspicion that something shady is going on is not a justification or cause to leave negative feedback for someone who doesn't share your beliefs. Let's keep this system honorable and not completely arbitrary.

I wish that guy would be banned forever from here. To me, it is obvious that he had been paid to send all these blackmail PMs and leave negative trust on users. Add to this that he is a scammer himself and has nothing to lose (an honest man would never agree to a job like this), so what else could you expect? Micro is an accomplice of Stunna, a man who was too eager to jump at an opportunity to sling mud at DB. I wouldn't be surprised if he had a hand in all this... Cui prodest?

BTW, I never believed that DB was a scam

You never believed DB was a scam even after it was proven to be so?

Are you $username clad in a new hide? Have you been finally banned?

[nicolaennio]

I'm pretty sure that anyone who stayed invested through the whole "mateo" adventure who have lost *plenty*. At the low point, investors were down 85% of their investment. In order to recover from 15% to 100% they would need the house to profit by more than 6 times the current bankroll amount, which was not less than 500 BTC when Mateo started losing. Since the house didn't make 3000 BTC of profit, I'm pretty sure any persistent investor suffered a massive loss from Mateo's play.

Yeah... from the beginning I had 0.1133 invested, I never divested and now I have 0.03.

[EDIT] but now that I think about it I was expecting to have something like 0.05, it seems mateo's losing did not affect me at all.

[st4nl3y]

Can't believe morons are still playing at this scam site and putting money in to operators pocket, do you expect miracles? or waiting for another "mateo" .Anyone who lose their money again, fully deserve to lose it and shoud not get any sympathy.

[Dabs]

Can I just get back my original investment?