Stellar

[atoni]

So what is your opinion on the possibility that he made an agreement with Ripple Labs to NOT sold them and find another way?

I think thats not possible but I dont know. He got what he wanted, Chris donated his so he is not profiting while Jed still keeps community as hostage. He would be stupid to sell and lose that advantage. Although if he was really a man he should stick to his word.

He is very well aware that only way for stellar to succeed is if he tells people they will make money with stellar and not with xrp.

[HostFat]

Anyway, we still have to understand why he had to leave Ripplelabs (by his choice? it still not clear) like one year ago.
He could just maintain his founder stack, waiting for Ripple spread.
He would made a lot more money than selling by now.

The price of XRP is going down, but he is still not selling them.
As you said he has 8.5 bilion of XRP, more than the STR he has now (and he seems that he hasn't them directly, the Stellar foundation has them)

To me it doesn't seem a sort of choices for his own only interest.

[atoni]

So what is your opinion on the possibility that he made an agreement with Ripple Labs to NOT sold them and find another way?

He has been selling, and without community transparency on basic questions like timelines and quantities. After fueling fire sale speculation, he has now left everyone in the dark. July 31 is the last mention of identified activity in this thread: Jed McCaleb = Troll or scammer?

He was not selling. He sold only small quantities (small compared to 9 billion, he sold maybe 20 million in total). He started to threat with orders again right before stellar was released (thats when its mentioned in that thread).

[mnporter2001]

6000 Stellars for free!
You can get 6000 Stellars for free by adding Facebook sign-up and by confirming your email.

Well that's bullshit, you only get 2250 and now you don't even get that, they have people queued up now and you may or may not get your free coins.
And no mention of how long they will hold you in a que

Cheers
Mark

[hypostatization]

He was not selling. He sold only small quantities (small compared to 9 billion, he sold maybe 20 million in total). He started to threat with orders again right before stellar was released (thats when its mentioned in that thread).

I think we are in agreement.

[HostFat]

I think that it's important to understand what does he means when talks about "community".
I don't think that he is probably talking about XRP holders, but more on a widespread meaning.

[atoni]

Anyway, we still have to understand why he had to leave Ripplelabs (by his choice? it still not clear) like one year ago.
He could just maintain his founder stack, waiting for Ripple spread.
He would made a lot more money than selling by now.

The price of XRP is going down, but he is still not selling them.
As you said he has 8.5 bilion of XRP, more than the STR he has now (and he seems that he hasn't them directly, the Stellar foundation has them)

To me it doesn't seem a sort of choices for his own only interest.

As I understand he had argument with CEO about approach they should take. Ripple Labs tried hard to take bottom up approach and spread a couple of billions XRP to bitcointalk members but it didnt work out so they figured its better to try top down approach.

Also, there was leaked lawyer letter where it says that Chris and Arthur (other co founders) wanted to return their XRP to company so they can be spread but Jed was against it and wanted Ripple Labs to pay him millions (at that time his stake was valued at some 100 million USD) instead of giving them to spread through community. That was probably the main reason why Jed left as he couldnt get millions right away.

He is not selling dont worry, he knows that he has Ripple Labs in pocket with just threating and in case they do manage to succeed he knows he will make a lot more money then just dumping them now on market that isnt liquid enough to even absorb 1/10th of his stash.

Jed isnt stupid, he is good at math and he likes to make millions more then anything.

[atoni]

I think that it's important to understand what does he means when talks about "community".
I don't think that he is probably talking about XRP holders, but more on a widespread meaning.

Yeah he is not talking about XRP holders anymore, he holds that community as hostage.

[HostFat]

Also, there was leaked lawyer letter where it says that Chris and Arthur (other co founders) wanted to return their XRP to company so they can be spread but Jed was against it and wanted Ripple Labs to pay him millions (at that time his stake was valued at some 100 million USD) instead of giving them to spread through community. That was probably the main reason why Jed left as he couldnt get millions right away.

Can you give me a link on it?

[atoni]

Also, there was leaked lawyer letter where it says that Chris and Arthur (other co founders) wanted to return their XRP to company so they can be spread but Jed was against it and wanted Ripple Labs to pay him millions (at that time his stake was valued at some 100 million USD) instead of giving them to spread through community. That was probably the main reason why Jed left as he couldnt get millions right away.

Can you give me a link on it?

Please go through either xrptalk.org or official forum you will find it there its published.

[hypostatization]

Anyway, we still have to understand why he had to leave Ripplelabs (by his choice? it still not clear) like one year ago.

Here is a revealing quote from ahbritto regarding Jed on the official forum (5/22/2014):

He hasn't been on the operating team for about a year, and hasn't been on the board since April.

Regarding loss of his leadership position within the company, prior to his departure, this quote from Jesse Powell (former board member) is also revealing:

In fact, my relationship with Jed has been almost non-existent since the board opted to keep Chris on rather than Jed, when Jed forced us to decide between them. I’m sure Chris does not appreciate how personally difficult that decision was for me, but I did what I thought at the time was in the best interest of the company. It certainly wasn’t in the best interest of my friendship with Jed.

It seems he left the company by choice, after contributing little, and with a grudge against Ripples Labs.

Edit: a link to the requested cease and decist letter is inline in my response (as the source of the Jesse Powell quote above)

[hypostatization]

As I understand he had argument with CEO about approach they should take. Ripple Labs tried hard to take bottom up approach and spread a couple of billions XRP to bitcointalk members but it didnt work out so they figured its better to try top down approach.

Adding a little more context here.

Ryan Fugger, creator of the core Ripple community vision (NOT JED), previously made this comment:

I spent years working on growing pre-XRP Ripple in a grassroots fashion, and it was ultimately a barrier that people and small businesses aren't used to being credit intermediaries. I generally prefer the grassroots approach, but it makes sense to me to initially target institutions that are already acting as credit intermediaries, at least for the credit network portion of Ripple.

If anyone represents the community vision, I think it would be Ryan Fugger.

Jed, meanwhile, has decided to bootstrap Stellar by giving 2% of all STR to Stripe. Any nod Jed is making toward community is pure disingenuous marketing.

[HostFat]

Also, there was leaked lawyer letter where it says that Chris and Arthur (other co founders) wanted to return their XRP to company so they can be spread but Jed was against it and wanted Ripple Labs to pay him millions (at that time his stake was valued at some 100 million USD) instead of giving them to spread through community. That was probably the main reason why Jed left as he couldnt get millions right away.

From the letter:

Sadly, the vision Jed and I had for the project in the early days has been lost. I’m no longer confident in the management nor the company’s ability to recover from the founders’ perplexing allocation to themselves of 20% of the XRP, which I had recently would be returned. Prior to Jed's departure from Ripple, I had asked the founders to return their XRP to the company. Jed agreed but Chris declined

uh, it seems quite the opposite.

When the Jesse's statements are true and when not?

[atoni]

Also, there was leaked lawyer letter where it says that Chris and Arthur (other co founders) wanted to return their XRP to company so they can be spread but Jed was against it and wanted Ripple Labs to pay him millions (at that time his stake was valued at some 100 million USD) instead of giving them to spread through community. That was probably the main reason why Jed left as he couldnt get millions right away.

From the letter:

Sadly, the vision Jed and I had for the project in the early days has been lost. I’m no longer confident in the management nor the company’s ability to recover from the founders’ perplexing allocation to themselves of 20% of the XRP, which I had recently would be returned. Prior to Jed's departure from Ripple, I had asked the founders to return their XRP to the company. Jed agreed but Chris declined

uh, it seems quite the opposite.

Thats Jesse's part (at that time he was attacking Ripple Labs and wanted to get money from them), you need to look on what other side answered if its still there.

[atoni]

Almost none of what Jesse said was true.

He got confronted with lawyer that had minutes from those meetings, got embarassed and immediatelly he shut up and never showed up again.

[hypostatization]

Also, there was leaked lawyer letter where it says that Chris and Arthur (other co founders) wanted to return their XRP to company so they can be spread but Jed was against it and wanted Ripple Labs to pay him millions (at that time his stake was valued at some 100 million USD) instead of giving them to spread through community. That was probably the main reason why Jed left as he couldnt get millions right away.

From the letter:

Sadly, the vision Jed and I had for the project in the early days has been lost. I’m no longer confident in the management nor the company’s ability to recover from the founders’ perplexing allocation to themselves of 20% of the XRP, which I had recently would be returned. Prior to Jed's departure from Ripple, I had asked the founders to return their XRP to the company. Jed agreed but Chris declined

uh, it seems quite the opposite.

It quickly becomes a he said/she said game. David Schwartz seems to be the voice most trusted by the community, and made the following statement:

This is David Schwartz, JoelKatz on the Bitcoin forums. I first became involved in what became Ripple Labs when Jed McCaleb hired me to investigate if a distributed agreement protocol could solve the double spend problem without a central authority. Jed and I met Jesse Powell at a burrito shop in Berkeley and convinced him to become the first investor.

Chris Larsen co-founded the company with Jed, taking on the operating role of CEO. With Chris at the helm, Ripple Labs has grown to a team of more than 50 people, pursuing a shared vision to make the Ripple protocol an open, decentralized, payment system by building utility and liquidity. Today, I'm Chief Cryptographer at Ripple Labs and a member of the Board of Directors.

We knew we would face a number of challenges, from the technical to the regulatory, but nobody could have expected the destructive behavior we've seen these past few days. Jesse's assertion that Chris was and is unwilling to give back his founders' stake to Ripple Labs is completely untrue. Arthur posted on the issue yesterday. I trust that the community has the judgment to see who is building and who is scorching the Earth.

I feel bad for Jesse in all of this. I think he ended up getting caught in the cross-fire, and possibly ended up being played by Jed. His timing of his resignation announcement was suspect, but understandable from the perspective that he wanted to prevent the exact scenario we are now in. Jed and Jesse had separate interests regarding the founder XRP, but seemed to unite for bargaining leverage against RL. I trust Jesse's words, so far as they fully represent the information he had available. Jesse also apparently helped line up the Fidor.de deal, which has been a major win. I trust in JoelKatz for having the most complete picture.

Multiple interests were involved, and little of the core conflict seems to have had anything to do with the community.

Jed's primary goal seems to have been a cash payout from Ripple Labs, as his girlfriend received. Jesse, meanwhile, seemed most concerned about the founder XRP not being distributed to investors---and preventing this exact scenario (Jed going nuclear). I understand his position, and it seems reasonable to me.

[hypostatization]

Almost none of what Jesse said was true.

He got confronted with lawyer that had minutes from those meetings, got embarassed and immediatelly he shut up and never showed up again.

Do you have a source for this?

[tonyback]

STR is up on bx.in.th  

[atoni]

Almost none of what Jesse said was true.

He got confronted with lawyer that had minutes from those meetings, got embarassed and immediatelly he shut up and never showed up again.

Do you have a source for this?

There was entire lawyer letter published somewhere, I am not sure if its on forums or on reddit but its published.

[atoni]

STR is up on bx.in.th  

Yeah, STR is probably very good speculation, they will release it very slowely so that price can go up. Its also great marketing so price will go further up because of that too.