Blowing the lid off the CryptoNote/Bytecoin scam (with the exception of Monero)

[me755]

This is why I don't own XMR or any CN coin. The Monero trolls are everywhere, every coin thread Cryptonote or not, and why the fuck would I want to buy a coin when current coin owners are so desperate they feel the need to troll so dam much. Even smooth trolling the Bytecoin thread so fucking hard and he's part of the Monero team..seriously where do you guys get the time to troll so much? And you're actually hurting XMR not helping, it's just making this whole cluster fuck surrounding Cryptonote coins worse.
My conclusion, Cryptonote coins are all FUBAR

XMR has the biggest volume on poloniex and its the only coin that can rightfully replace bitcoin, it doesnt matter if you like it or not, XMR doesnt need your endorsement to keep growing, and it will.
Plus they fact you bash all CN coins and point only to "trolling" on Bytecoin threads, when the Bytecoin trolls are the worst pack of internet lemmings out there shows how biased you are, no one will take you seriously, Monero already decoupled from being merely another altcoin on a Bitcointalk thread, it now feeds on haters hate like Bitcoin...

Monero to da moon!

Fact: MRO/XMR have far better community than other CN coins and didn't fake any dates.

[dga]

For anyone willing to spend the time an unbiased cliff notes version of Cryptonote and the CN coins would probably help adoption of Monero and legit CN coins.

I know whatever I say will be perceived as biased, which is understandable, but the reality is, from the OP's work which I find to be completely credible (especially in connection with the other shady to outright deceptive stuff I saw myself on the Bytecoin thread before there even was a Monero), I don't at this point believe there are any other clearly legit CN coins besides Monero.

I said a few pages back that I'm not convinced about the whole Russian-guy/cryptozoidberg/BBR story. There are some connections there, but at the same time some of the pieces there don't entirely fit. I'm also not 100% sure about ducknote, although it smells a little fishy. But the others are all clearly coming out of the same fraudulent coin mill.

If there were some other untainted CN clone coins I would point them out. I just don't know of any.

You don't have to believe me though, read what the OP says (especially the "all tied up in a bow" section) and decide for yourself.

I'm biased as well, of course (I hold some BBR), but the one part that I disagree with the OP on is the boolberry.com mail issue.  For better or worse, I trust btc-mike on this one, and I _was_ following along in the forums when he got things set up.  Coincidences are possible, and it's possible that the same features that led the army-of-clones to pick Zoho also led btc-mike to suggest it as well.

One could imagine the same kinds of reasons for people to stick to sourceforge, except that it kind of sucks compared to github, so I can't see clear reasons for a new project to favor it.  I may be wrong / biased in my repo preferences, though.

My pet theory, unconfirmed by anyone, was that both XMR and BBR sprung out of some kind of internal schism between "people who had early knowledge about cryptonote and/or bytecoin".  I use that very generic way of talking about it because I don't have any idea what kind of access they had, whether they knew about CN or BCN, or what the nature of the schism was.  I've tried on a bunch of variants of that and can't decide on any that make more sense than others -- for example, TFT retained the de-optimized miner;  did he know about it and seek to exploit it, or was he clueless?  Zoidberg changed the entire mining algorithm and released a variant that was quite well optimized by release standards -- did he know that the original was deoptimized and was trying to rectify that unfairness, or was he purely exploring his Blockchain-based Proof-of-Work concept?  Or both?

Beats me.  This is the point where Mulder walks in and says "the truth is out there!" and the aliens start grabbing people...

[GreekBitcoin]

Beats me.  This is the point where Mulder walks in and says "the truth is out there!" and the aliens start grabbing people...

I wonder if in the future someone from bytecoin/cryptonote will come out and reveal what was going on...

lets make a bounty for whistleblowers lol

[othe]

I'm biased as well, of course (I hold some BBR), but the one part that I disagree with the OP on is the boolberry.com mail issue.  For better or worse, I trust btc-mike on this one, and I _was_ following along in the forums when he got things set up.  Coincidences are possible, and it's possible that the same features that led the army-of-clones to pick Zoho also led btc-mike to suggest it as well.

I second that, btc-mike has nothing todo with the bcn fuckup.

[dga]

Beats me.  This is the point where Mulder walks in and says "the truth is out there!" and the aliens start grabbing people...

I wonder if in the future someone from bytecoin/cryptonote will come out and reveal what was going on...

lets make a bounty for whistleblowers lol

I'd pay for that, with some reasonably convincing proof. :-)

I'd also love to interview someone from a coin-mill.  (For that one, let me put on my professor hat, not my dabbler-in-crypto-mining hat).  I think there are a lot of people who'd be interested in knowing more about the altcoin economy.  I'm PM'able or emailable if anyone reading this thread happens to have been in that situation.  我们可以讲英语或普通话。我可以问一个学生提供帮助.

[AlexGR]

And, as we saw, this has fucking infuriated the Bytecoin/CryptoNote developers. They're so angry they waste hours and hours with their Reddit accounts trawling the Monero sub-reddit, for what? Nobody has fallen for their scam, and after my revelation today nobody fucking will. Transparency wins, everything else is bullshit.

As pointed out by canonsburg, when the Bytecoin/CryptoNote people realised they'd lost the fucking game, they took a "scorched earth" approach. If they couldn't have the leading CryptoNote coin...they'd fucking destroy the rest by creating a shit-storm of CryptoNote coins. Not only did they setup a thread with "A complete forking guide to create your own CryptoNote currency", but they even have a dedicated website with a fuckton of JavaScript. Unfortunately this plan hasn't worked for them, because they forgot that nobody gives a fuck, and everyone is going to carry on forking Bitcoin-based coins because of the massive infrastructure and code etc. that works with Bitcoin-based coins.

My question is this: If they managed to pull off creating a brand new currency from scratch, why would they run out of options just like that and have Monero run away and take everything? They surely have the talent to create something like a V2 of Cryptonote that is not backwards compatible (so that Monero can't upgrade) and that will improve stuff that are not in the V1 spec. They've showed some samples that they know what they are doing when they pushed some improvements in BCN.

Another option would be to implement POS + CN + easy GUI. A POS coin would be problematic in many regards but buyers have embraced them / they seem to like them as they do not have the constant pressure from inflation, despite their issues. This would be innovative in terms of CN coins "first POS CN / no inflation issues".

And there are probably other stuff they can do that I haven't thought of. Surely if they are so good, Monero running away from their group of cloned currencies would not be such an issue (?). Why scorch everything when they can simply outdo the existing coins in some way?

[neuroMode]

I need clarification on this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=600658.msg8423637#msg8423637

QCN just released a GUI wallet, albeit an alpha version. Why is the dev stringing along a coin for so long if he's a bad guy? Why continue to put effort into a coin that has about 1BTC of total buy orders on bittrex and poloniex combined and has been struggling with "post exchange listing syndrome"? Surely there has to be easier and faster ways to scam people that don't involve so much damn work day after day.

If I was the QCN dev and I wanted to scam people, I'd keep cloning cryptonote coins, instamining them, dumping them on exchanges for inflated value, then leave the coin again. I wouldn't waste all my time with this "development" shit months after my coin gets listed. I mean, I could clone coins AND still dev QCN, but why do the extra work? That's part of what scams are right? Getting cash monies for the least amount of work as possible?

[drawingthemoon]

I'm biased as well, of course (I hold some BBR), but the one part that I disagree with the OP on is the boolberry.com mail issue.  For better or worse, I trust btc-mike on this one, and I _was_ following along in the forums when he got things set up.  Coincidences are possible, and it's possible that the same features that led the army-of-clones to pick Zoho also led btc-mike to suggest it as well.

I second that, btc-mike has nothing todo with the bcn fuckup.

And this is my problem with this thread. It is a banal attempt to throw everyone but Monero under the bus, and that includes some wild accusations and mud slinging at a legitimate project like BBR. OP also tries unsuccessfully trying to pass off as not shilling for MRO

For fucks sake, can everyone stop talking about fucking Monero! I have nothing to do with Monero. I had to write about Monero because it WAS launched by the CryptoNote developers as Bitmonero, so it was unavoidable.

Sure bro, you of course don't know what they're called or how many they are  . If I am not mistaken, this line used to originally say "core team or whatever", wish there was a way to check this ...

but mostly because the "core devs" or whatever they're called are made up of reasonably well-known people. That there are a bunch of them (6 or 7?) plus a bunch of other people contributing code means that they're sanity checking each other.

OP has been buying XMR from the beginning, also holds some BBR. Tries to come too hard as a passive research level exposing scams (which by the way everyone and their brother knew already).

WTS 0.00145 / 1450 / 2.1025 BTC

!!!! Why didn't you tell me you were selling more, I told you to come to me first!!!!!

pm'ing you now:)

Just check his post history, full of getting into arguments with everyone else, including anyone that says anything good about BBR. Shilling at it's poorest.

This thread would have made sense, if there were people who would come out of the woodwork saying

"Hey I used to mine BCN/AEON/FCN/QCN/B.S CN coin mill coin, but thanks for exposing the lies. I am now going to mine XMR". No sorry this didn't happen. You know why it didn't happen? Because everyone fucking knew already. All we see are bagholders puppetting lines like "thanks for opening my eyes, thanks for doing the research" and other utter shill crap.

BBR is a legitimate project. Thanks for trying to throw it under the bus. Yah yah, shove your "I hold BBR" bullshit somewhere who fucking cares. We don't have to know how much of what you hold and how that influences your incessant shilling or trolling other coin threads trying to demean them on their face. Like that is supposed to bring in people to form consensus.

Go ahead and make a great project like XMR appear like a desperate pump-needed shill coin when it didn't need it. The people will come on their own. STOP BEING A FUCKING FUCKTARD.

[phillipsjk]

It appears that my post on the Cryptonote forum about the perceived merits of various cryptonote coins was deleted. (It was in a thread asking if the devs would ever delete the keys for the 80% pre-mine). I am glad I use a different password for every website.

IIRC, Quasarcoin is one of the forks I actually liked. I did not like monero because for some unfathomable reason, they decided 60 second blocks were a good idea

Edit: I was thinking of doing my own investigations via another route: the release dates of the dependencies.

[othe]

I need clarification on this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=600658.msg8423637#msg8423637

QCN just released a GUI wallet, albeit an alpha version. Why is the dev stringing along a coin for so long if he's a bad guy? Why continue to put effort into a coin that has about 1BTC of total buy orders on bittrex and poloniex combined and has been struggling with "post exchange listing syndrome"? Surely there has to be easier and faster ways to scam people that don't involve so much damn work day after day.

If I was the QCN dev and I wanted to scam people, I'd keep cloning cryptonote coins, instamining them, dumping them on exchanges for inflated value, then leave the coin again. I wouldn't waste all my time with this "development" shit months after my coin gets listed. I mean, I could clone coins AND still dev QCN, but why do the extra work? That's part of what scams are right? Getting cash monies for the least amount of work as possible?

It was even called MONERO then he renamed it to quzar later,just to annoy us.
Nothing that they do makes sense, but as you may notice its hard for new cn coins to get on an exchange, prolly thats why.

And, as we saw, this has fucking infuriated the Bytecoin/CryptoNote developers. They're so angry they waste hours and hours with their Reddit accounts trawling the Monero sub-reddit, for what? Nobody has fallen for their scam, and after my revelation today nobody fucking will. Transparency wins, everything else is bullshit.

As pointed out by canonsburg, when the Bytecoin/CryptoNote people realised they'd lost the fucking game, they took a "scorched earth" approach. If they couldn't have the leading CryptoNote coin...they'd fucking destroy the rest by creating a shit-storm of CryptoNote coins. Not only did they setup a thread with "A complete forking guide to create your own CryptoNote currency", but they even have a dedicated website with a fuckton of JavaScript. Unfortunately this plan hasn't worked for them, because they forgot that nobody gives a fuck, and everyone is going to carry on forking Bitcoin-based coins because of the massive infrastructure and code etc. that works with Bitcoin-based coins.

My question is this: If they managed to pull off creating a brand new currency from scratch, why would they run out of options just like that and have Monero run away and take everything? They surely have the talent to create something like a V2 of Cryptonote that is not backwards compatible (so that Monero can't upgrade) and that will improve stuff that are not in the V1 spec. They've showed some samples that they know what they are doing when they pushed some improvements in BCN.

Another option would be to implement POS + CN + easy GUI. A POS coin would be problematic in many regards but buyers have embraced them / they seem to like them as they do not have the constant pressure from inflation, despite their issues. This would be innovative in terms of CN coins "first POS CN / no inflation issues".

And there are probably other stuff they can do that I haven't thought of. Surely if they are so good, Monero running away from their group of cloned currencies would not be such an issue (?). Why scorch everything when they can simply outdo the existing coins in some way?

Cryptography != coding.
There's a lot of weird coding in the CN sources.

Instead of a proper Database BCN did an ugly Ramhack for the Blockchain. A good GUI is _a lot_ of work; thats something a UI Designer has todo.

For example the bitcoin qt gui i wouldnt really consider good for an enduser, but there are alternatives with Electrum, Hive and co.


You are absolutely wrong on POS and no inflation, of course POS has the same inflation, why else should people stake and secure the network

[AlexGR]

You are absolutely wrong on POS and no inflation, of course POS has the same inflation, why else should people stake and secure the network

It's different having 1-2% inflation per day vs an initial distribution / instamine period + 5% per year for example.

[othe]

You are absolutely wrong on POS and no inflation, of course POS has the same inflation, why else should people stake and secure the network

It's different having 1-2% inflation per day vs an initial distribution / instamine period + 5% per year for example.

Monero doesn´t have 1-2% per day inflation, please make your math (currently 0.75% if am not to sleepy)
5% per year is more than Monero will have, not so cool for investors.


Its different only because some so called whales tell that here, so far look at the POS coins, not a single simple POS coin is doing good.
Most of them were blatant scams and the developers mined a big percentage via betarigs and co just to dump them later.

[smooth]

I need clarification on this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=600658.msg8423637#msg8423637

QCN just released a GUI wallet, albeit an alpha version. Why is the dev stringing along a coin for so long if he's a bad guy? Why continue to put effort into a coin that has about 1BTC of total buy orders on bittrex and poloniex combined and has been struggling with "post exchange listing syndrome"? Surely there has to be easier and faster ways to scam people that don't involve so much damn work day after day.

If I was the QCN dev and I wanted to scam people, I'd keep cloning cryptonote coins, instamining them, dumping them on exchanges for inflated value, then leave the coin again. I wouldn't waste all my time with this "development" shit months after my coin gets listed. I mean, I could clone coins AND still dev QCN, but why do the extra work? That's part of what scams are right? Getting cash monies for the least amount of work as possible?

There was no "development" there. The GUI that was released is the same one (perhaps a newer version, since it appears he supports Windows now), from the same developer, that was released for Monero on June 10 QCN and later XMR in June:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.msg7235602#msg7235602

Thanks to pfo, this is his development!

This is exactly what I was talking about a few pages back. Appearance of development. Until they have dumped all their coins (which you won't know), and then they won't bother with even that and the coin will drop to zero. Caution advised, but if you want to play the game of betting on the possibility of pumps as long as they're still around making appearances, it likely is possible to make some money on it, but for the most part you are playing a rigged game.

[neuroMode]

I need clarification on this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=600658.msg8423637#msg8423637

QCN just released a GUI wallet, albeit an alpha version. Why is the dev stringing along a coin for so long if he's a bad guy? Why continue to put effort into a coin that has about 1BTC of total buy orders on bittrex and poloniex combined and has been struggling with "post exchange listing syndrome"? Surely there has to be easier and faster ways to scam people that don't involve so much damn work day after day.

If I was the QCN dev and I wanted to scam people, I'd keep cloning cryptonote coins, instamining them, dumping them on exchanges for inflated value, then leave the coin again. I wouldn't waste all my time with this "development" shit months after my coin gets listed. I mean, I could clone coins AND still dev QCN, but why do the extra work? That's part of what scams are right? Getting cash monies for the least amount of work as possible?

There was no "development" there. The GUI that was released is the same one (perhaps a newer version, since it appears he supports Windows now), from the same developer, that was released for Monero on June 10:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.msg7235602#msg7235602

Thanks to pfo, this is his development!

This is exactly what I was talking about a few pages back. Appearance of development. Until they have dumped all their coins (which you won't know), and then they won't bother with even that and the coin will drop to zero. Caution advised, but if you want to play the game of betting on the possibility of pumps as long as they're still around making appearances, it likely is possible to make some money on it, but for the most part you are playing a rigged game.

"From the same one from the same developer"

So QCN dev = XMR dev? Or who is he then?

[fluffypony]

"From the same one from the same developer"

So QCN dev = XMR dev? Or who is he then?

Huh? No, pfo released a wallet for Monero on June 10, and he's now released the same wallet for QCN. He initially wrote it for mropool.org.

[smooth]

I need clarification on this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=600658.msg8423637#msg8423637

QCN just released a GUI wallet, albeit an alpha version. Why is the dev stringing along a coin for so long if he's a bad guy? Why continue to put effort into a coin that has about 1BTC of total buy orders on bittrex and poloniex combined and has been struggling with "post exchange listing syndrome"? Surely there has to be easier and faster ways to scam people that don't involve so much damn work day after day.

If I was the QCN dev and I wanted to scam people, I'd keep cloning cryptonote coins, instamining them, dumping them on exchanges for inflated value, then leave the coin again. I wouldn't waste all my time with this "development" shit months after my coin gets listed. I mean, I could clone coins AND still dev QCN, but why do the extra work? That's part of what scams are right? Getting cash monies for the least amount of work as possible?

There was no "development" there. The GUI that was released is the same one (perhaps a newer version, since it appears he supports Windows now), from the same developer, that was released for Monero on June 10:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.msg7235602#msg7235602

Thanks to pfo, this is his development!

This is exactly what I was talking about a few pages back. Appearance of development. Until they have dumped all their coins (which you won't know), and then they won't bother with even that and the coin will drop to zero. Caution advised, but if you want to play the game of betting on the possibility of pumps as long as they're still around making appearances, it likely is possible to make some money on it, but for the most part you are playing a rigged game.

"From the same one from the same developer"

So QCN dev = XMR dev? Or who is he then?

The QCN developer told you in the quote above. The developer of the GUI is pfo who developed it (as an independent third party) for XMR QCN and XMR a few months ago. They apparently made some sort of deal to release it now for QCN. Perhaps you aren't aware that QCN And XMR are both forks of the same CN code, so a wallet for one will work for the other  (with minor tweaks).

There is no significant QCN development going on. It is caretaking.

[neuroMode]

I need clarification on this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=600658.msg8423637#msg8423637

QCN just released a GUI wallet, albeit an alpha version. Why is the dev stringing along a coin for so long if he's a bad guy? Why continue to put effort into a coin that has about 1BTC of total buy orders on bittrex and poloniex combined and has been struggling with "post exchange listing syndrome"? Surely there has to be easier and faster ways to scam people that don't involve so much damn work day after day.

If I was the QCN dev and I wanted to scam people, I'd keep cloning cryptonote coins, instamining them, dumping them on exchanges for inflated value, then leave the coin again. I wouldn't waste all my time with this "development" shit months after my coin gets listed. I mean, I could clone coins AND still dev QCN, but why do the extra work? That's part of what scams are right? Getting cash monies for the least amount of work as possible?

There was no "development" there. The GUI that was released is the same one (perhaps a newer version, since it appears he supports Windows now), from the same developer, that was released for Monero on June 10:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.msg7235602#msg7235602

Thanks to pfo, this is his development!

This is exactly what I was talking about a few pages back. Appearance of development. Until they have dumped all their coins (which you won't know), and then they won't bother with even that and the coin will drop to zero. Caution advised, but if you want to play the game of betting on the possibility of pumps as long as they're still around making appearances, it likely is possible to make some money on it, but for the most part you are playing a rigged game.

"From the same one from the same developer"

So QCN dev = XMR dev? Or who is he then?

The QCN developer told you in the quote above. The developer of the GUI is pfo who developed it (as an independent third party) for XMR a few months ago. They apparently made some sort of deal to release it now for QCN. Perhaps you aren't aware that QCN And XMR are both forks of the same CN code, so a wallet for one will work for the other  (with minor tweaks).

There is no significant QCN development going on. It is caretaking.

Ah, right. I overlooked pfo, my apologies.

Well, should all QCN be is just a caretaking job, it's a very stupid way to cash out if this is all pointing to a scam. Cashing out now would be painful for them, the price is at its lowest point so far.

But you have swayed me a little bit: Either its not a scam as I've thought all along or something more is going on behind the scenes than what we see now. Or the QCN dev is just an idiot.

[Johnny Mnemonic]

It appears that my post on the Cryptonote forum about the perceived merits of various cryptonote coins was deleted. (It was in a thread asking if the devs would ever delete the keys for the 80% pre-mine). I am glad I use a different password for every website.

IIRC, Quasarcoin is one of the forks I actually liked. I did not like monero because for some unfathomable reason, they decided 60 second blocks were a good idea

Edit: I was thinking of doing my own investigations via another route: the release dates of the dependencies.

Read my posts up thread. Nobody thought 60 second blocks were a good idea. TFT ignored everyone and launched bitMonero with it anyway.

[OracionSeis]

pfo was the initial author of the Mac wallet for QuazarCoin. A few days later he uploaded the version for Monero.




We had been running tests for quite a while as we wanted to present it officially only after the release of the Win wallet.  

Furthermore, look closely pfo had been introduced a long time ago as one of the QCN developers.

[smooth]

pfo was the initial author of the Mac wallet for QuazarCoin. A few days later he uploaded the version for Monero.

Thank you for the correction. I have edited my posts above.