Blowing the lid off the CryptoNote/Bytecoin scam (with the exception of Monero)

[NewLiberty]

It appears that my post on the Cryptonote forum about the perceived merits of various cryptonote coins was deleted. (It was in a thread asking if the devs would ever delete the keys for the 80% pre-mine). I am glad I use a different password for every website.

IIRC, Quasarcoin is one of the forks I actually liked. I did not like monero because for some unfathomable reason, they decided 60 second blocks were a good idea

Edit: I was thinking of doing my own investigations via another route: the release dates of the dependencies.

Read my posts up thread. Nobody thought 60 second blocks were a good idea. TFT ignored everyone and launched bitMonero with it anyway.

10 minutes may be too long, 1 minute may be too short.  But both of those are based on circumstances of today.
In 10 years, 1 minute may seem too long too.

This is a significant challenge with may factors that weigh in different directions.
1) Susceptibility to manipulation with variance in hash rates.
2) transaction volume handling
3) speed of transaction closure
4) size of block chain
5) number of transactions per block capacity
6) usefullness in point-of-sale transactions
and quite a few other factors.

Devising a future-proof algorithm that balances all the factors is elusive.  Satoshi didn't wait for it, and bless him for that.


In the end it always comes down to a guess, and pretty much no one is guessing LONGER than 10 minutes, so going an order of magnitude shorter, with a reasonable stab at an algorithm that takes into account a bunch of these factors to greater and lesser degrees is a valuable thing for our little experiment in alternative currency fabrication.

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[SnakePlisken]

Excellent detective work, good job OP!

I found it extremely fishy that Bytecoin claimed to have been around for a couple of years yet nobody on these forums heard of it until it started to be traded.

Just another crypto scam, why am I not surprised.

[dNote]

I was reading a recent ducknote interview: cointelegraph.com/news/112294/what-the-duck-cryptonote-inspired-ducknote-xdn

things are a bit weird, bear with me:

here is no single duckNote developer. Instead, there is a number of duckNote developer teams with excellent IT knowledge and deep understanding of CryptoNote technology and cryptocurrency phenomenon. Each team is focused on its own project part, there are professional programmers, economists, managers and testers united by one idea

sounds awful alot like the cryptonote "team", a bunch of unknown people with said high academic and professional background, why such people would launch an amateur-looking coin like duckNote?

duckNote was launched on May 30 2014, New Moon. Hats off to BCN developers who launched Bytecoin - the very first CryptoNote implementation more than 2 years ago. duckNote is a fork of Bytecoin repository, with some unique features and specifications.

now here is where they show themselves, "Hats off to BCN developers"??, "more than 2 years ago"?  

DN: duckNote is anonymous decentralized ASIC-resistant CPU-efficient cryptocurrency with unique emission curve and smart Economy. It is based on more than 2 years aged CryptoNote technology, implemented and approved by Bytecoin developers in mid 2012. Comparing with BCN, duckNote got different emission logic, network specs and development process.

now they are really pushing, no way if they were unrelated to CN team they would say " 2 years aged CryptoNote technology", it starts to sound very forceful, remember this article was published yesterday so ducknote 'dev team' had plenty of time to keep up with the allegations, we even had a guy tweet that he had nothing to do with cryptnote, how could ducknote team completely ignore this thread and go ahead saying BS like " implemented and approved by Bytecoin developers in mid 2012."...

suspicious as f*ck.

let me answer you in short terms:
1. duckNote is not an amateur coin.
2. Crypto scene is not limited to one country, continent or even the whole World. Do you really think that such a technology like CryptoNote will lay aside and hide from the eyes? i do not think so.
3. We found CryptoNote technology, we looked at its Roots and we found Bytecoin inside. We started base code research, it took some time to dive deep in that technology, but when we were done, we presented duckNote. And we are absolutely serious about it.
4. "Hats off to BCN developers" and everyone who will make such a codebase public and open source. Again, we care only about "root code" and we could not fail to mention Bytecoin, because duckNote is Bytecoin`s fork like any other CN cryptocurrency, and the technology is separated from Bitcoin.
5. "now they are really pushing, no way if they were unrelated to CN team they would say " 2 years aged CryptoNote technology", it starts to sound very forceful".
em whaat?
we forked Bytecoin, hope you got it. yes we are. we made it. Bytecoin exist for 2 years, because we can see it in blockcain, are we? Yes, we are. And it works, that was the main and only measure when we were choosing codebase for duckNote.
But we do not know for sure how long does CryptoNote exist so we can`t say for sure.

P.S. We are not in your battle here, sorry, truly i did not read the whole forum topic here and do not understand your issues with duckNote. I hope those who do not like duckNote now, will like it in future. We keep hard work, thank you for your support.

[dNote]

   "I must Create a System, or be enslav'd by another Man's;
    I will not Reason and Compare: my business is to Create."
William Blake

[me755]

P.S. We are not in your battle here, sorry, truly i did not read the whole forum topic here and do not understand your issues with duckNote. I hope those who do not like duckNote now, will like it in future. We keep hard work, thank you for your support.

I didn't understand a word of what you said, but thank you for clarifying my doubts, I'm just done with cryptonote coins with the exception of Monero, I have just finished my slow dumping of all I had plus buying of more Monero, all in the past 24 hours, it seems it was the right decision as Monero is now up over 20% of when I bought and all other cn scams going down. I literary saw BBR fake buy support orders disappear and move to ducknote on poloniex, even if the theory behind OP history is not true I don't want to deal with another clearly amateur pump and dump coin.

Who cares if its true or not as long it is written. And right now, after successfully defeated all of it opponents, Monero is ready for the moon!

For fudsters and doubters on why is Monero best CN coin:

https://monerotalk.org/t/why-is-monero-the-best-cryptonote-coin/21/10

[fluffypony]

For fudsters and doubters on why is Monero best CN coin:

https://monerotalk.org/t/why-is-monero-the-best-cryptonote-coin/21/10

That thread makes no sense whatsoever. It presents zero facts, and has nothing more than a couple of pointless one-liners.

*I* believe in Monero because I know what it can become, but don't overstate what it is - "Monero is as profitable as gold", lol seriously:)

[me755]

For fudsters and doubters on why is Monero best CN coin:

https://monerotalk.org/t/why-is-monero-the-best-cryptonote-coin/21/10

That thread makes no sense whatsoever. It presents zero facts, and has nothing more than a couple of pointless one-liners.

*I* believe in Monero because I know what we can turn it can become, but don't overstate what it is - "Monero is as profitable as gold", lol seriously:)

It's a simple truth. The fact is that XMR can make you rich.

[fluffypony]

For fudsters and doubters on why is Monero best CN coin:

https://monerotalk.org/t/why-is-monero-the-best-cryptonote-coin/21/10

That thread makes no sense whatsoever. It presents zero facts, and has nothing more than a couple of pointless one-liners.

*I* believe in Monero because I know what we can turn it can become, but don't overstate what it is - "Monero is as profitable as gold", lol seriously:)

It's a simple truth. The fact is that XMR can make you rich.

As one of the Monero Core Team members I can assure you that Monero has not "made me rich". It's a nice assertion, though.

[cAPSLOCK]

Who cares if its true or not as long it is written. And right now, after successfully defeated all of it opponents, Monero is ready for the moon!

For fudsters and doubters on why is Monero best CN coin:

https://monerotalk.org/t/why-is-monero-the-best-cryptonote-coin/21/10

I am not sure what you think this foolish passive aggressive campaign is going to do...  but you are really wasting your time posting on all your accounts here.

[me755]

For fudsters and doubters on why is Monero best CN coin:

https://monerotalk.org/t/why-is-monero-the-best-cryptonote-coin/21/10

That thread makes no sense whatsoever. It presents zero facts, and has nothing more than a couple of pointless one-liners.

*I* believe in Monero because I know what we can turn it can become, but don't overstate what it is - "Monero is as profitable as gold", lol seriously:)

It's a simple truth. The fact is that XMR can make you rich.

As one of the Monero Core Team members I can assure you that Monero has not "made me rich". It's a nice assertion, though.

I do hope it's only "not yet". Forgot to place second part of my post under the quotes, since it's from the same page but I assure you my reply was made in a humorous manner. Thanks.

[me755]

Who cares if its true or not as long it is written. And right now, after successfully defeated all of it opponents, Monero is ready for the moon!

For fudsters and doubters on why is Monero best CN coin:

https://monerotalk.org/t/why-is-monero-the-best-cryptonote-coin/21/10

I am not sure what you think this foolish passive aggressive campaign is going to do...  but you are really wasting your time posting on all your accounts here.

To be honest, re-thinking my strategy right now.

[Este Nuno]

For fudsters and doubters on why is Monero best CN coin:

https://monerotalk.org/t/why-is-monero-the-best-cryptonote-coin/21/10

That thread makes no sense whatsoever. It presents zero facts, and has nothing more than a couple of pointless one-liners.

*I* believe in Monero because I know what we can turn it can become, but don't overstate what it is - "Monero is as profitable as gold", lol seriously:)

It's a simple truth. The fact is that XMR can make you rich.

As one of the Monero Core Team members I can assure you that Monero has not "made me rich". It's a nice assertion, though.

Pretty sure any dev working on any non-scamcoin project is being made more poor(at least in the short run) by choosing to spend their time working for minimal(if any) compensation rather than taking jobs that would pay them probably an order of magnitude more money.

Unless one of these new IPO coins that are raising hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars actually turns out to not be a scam...

[me755]

I do hope it's only "not yet". Forgot to place second part of my post under the quotes, since it's from the same page but I assure you my reply was made in a humorous manner. Thanks.

I wouldn't worry about that, at least for me it was clear the intention behind your harmless post, what I don't get is what someone involved with monero is doing bashing your enthusiasm.

It's beyond me. Soon to be on a previous page, anyway.

[blackstack]

I am not very surprised that this thread has been designed to be Monero's PR campaign. I'm not really into posting on forums, but I've been watching XMR PR closely for some time and I have something to add to this insanity. Based on the writing styles I'm pretty sure that certain accounts in this thread are maintained by a much smaller group of people led by a decent PR expert. I was not really into saying anything... until the 12th page where shit becomes totally ridiculous.

Beg me pardon gentlemen but that is what we may call ninja-PR. For those unfamiliar with the basics here's a small cookbook.


Monero ninja-PR cookbook, recipe 24

First, you use unverified facts to discredit every single CryptoNote currency (regardless of the real facts) and CryptoNote itself.

Second, a couple of your talking heads and a few of your "supporters" attack each and every CryptoNote coin supporters that enter this thread. Regardless of facts, perfectly clear opinions, and logic. Just act aggressively, blame them, make them explain themselves, and you're good. And don't forget to troll.

Third, you start flooding the thread with irrelevant posts to weaken the contrast between steps 2 and 4. Better let the topic stop being hot before you proceed with this step though.

Fourth, you make amateur unexpectedly positive statements about Monero's perspectives. But you better lay it on your "supporters", you're not supposed to be controlling their actions, right? And of course you may go back to the first point, rethink your strategy, and let the "third party" tell the "truth".

Fifth, you walk into the thread like a boss and give a couple of smart short statements that your PR agent has prepared for this small chat on the thread. Maybe the media will like it, who knows.


So?

Little bit too obvious, really. You're not bad guys, you're just acting horribly. Stop being so arrogant, it's going to kill the whole idea, seriously.

[othe]

Please mention the so called accounts and proof it.

I am pretty sure no one talks like me here except maybe other germans/austrians who might do the same grammar mistakes.

Unverified facts against whom?

I don´t believe that you have no other account here, who are you?

PS: no need to pm me, i know it.

[smooth]

First, you use unverified facts to discredit every single CryptoNote currency (regardless of the real facts) and CryptoNote itself.

I'm not sure what kind of drugs you're taking but most of what I read in the original post were verified facts. Yes there was one "conjecture" section, clearly labeled as such. But things like domain registrations, email providers, PDF signatures with false dates, references that didn't exist on the date written on a paper, etc. Those were all verified facts. The OP did his homework. You would do well to do the same.

EDIT: Also, let me make one thing clear. Unlike some of the other coins mentioned on this thread (verified fact, BTW), Monero has basically no organized PR. (I say "basically" because the last time I said "no PR" someone threw it in my face because apparently there was some kind of PR effort at one point, so minor hat I frankly have no idea what they did, if anything. But in no way whatsoever are we "managed" or image crafted or given talking points or any of that shit.) It's all What You See Is What You Get. A bunch of guys working as volunteers on a community project giving their personal opinions. If you don't like it, well too bad. That's how it is.

[dga]

First, you use unverified facts to discredit every single CryptoNote currency (regardless of the real facts) and CryptoNote itself.

I'm not sure what kind of drugs you're taking but most of what I read in the original post were verified facts. Yes there was one "conjecture" section, clearly labeled as such. But things like domain registrations, email providers, PDF signatures with false dates, references that didn't exist on the date written on a paper, etc. Those were all verified facts. The OP did his homework. You would do well to do the same.

EDIT: Also, let me make one thing clear. Unlike some of the other coins mentioned on this thread (verified fact, BTW), Monero has basically no organized PR. (I say "basically" because the last time I said no PR someone threw it in my face because apparently there was some kind of PR effort at one point, so minor hat I frankly have no idea what they did, if anything. But in no way whatsoever are we "managed" or image crafted or given talking points or any of that shit.) It's all What You See Is What You Get. A bunch of guys working as volunteers on a community project giving their personal opinions. If you don't like it, well too bad. That's how it is.

Just to be clear on this, though, you just wrote in the BBR thread:

This seems pretty off topic for BBR, but the short answer is that we feel both coding and community relations (which includes but is not limited to effective two-way participation on the bitcointalk forums) are extremely important, along with several other functions. We have organized our project to effectively manage all of these.

That doesn't mean it's not volunteer, but XMR clearly does have a somewhat organized "community relations" (aka, PR) effort.

That said, PR isn't bad.  The value of these coins is in holding and use, and all of that derives from awareness.  I want both BBR and XMR to have organized efforts at spreading the word about them in a positive (and truthful) way.  I have no opinions about the veracity of the accusations of sockpuppetry from either camp, but PR in the most general sense need not be negative.

[ArticMine]

...
Any donation page to make Monero PR more organized? Let's work together toward the goal.

There is a thread for general Monero fund-raising here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=700400.0.

[smooth]

First, you use unverified facts to discredit every single CryptoNote currency (regardless of the real facts) and CryptoNote itself.

I'm not sure what kind of drugs you're taking but most of what I read in the original post were verified facts. Yes there was one "conjecture" section, clearly labeled as such. But things like domain registrations, email providers, PDF signatures with false dates, references that didn't exist on the date written on a paper, etc. Those were all verified facts. The OP did his homework. You would do well to do the same.

EDIT: Also, let me make one thing clear. Unlike some of the other coins mentioned on this thread (verified fact, BTW), Monero has basically no organized PR. (I say "basically" because the last time I said no PR someone threw it in my face because apparently there was some kind of PR effort at one point, so minor hat I frankly have no idea what they did, if anything. But in no way whatsoever are we "managed" or image crafted or given talking points or any of that shit.) It's all What You See Is What You Get. A bunch of guys working as volunteers on a community project giving their personal opinions. If you don't like it, well too bad. That's how it is.

Just to be clear on this, though, you just wrote in the BBR thread:

This seems pretty off topic for BBR, but the short answer is that we feel both coding and community relations (which includes but is not limited to effective two-way participation on the bitcointalk forums) are extremely important, along with several other functions. We have organized our project to effectively manage all of these.

That doesn't mean it's not volunteer, but XMR clearly does have a somewhat organized "community relations" (aka, PR) effort.

It's "organized" in the sense that we recognize it as important for people who were active community members before to continue being community members now. It is not organized in the sense that there is some "PR expert" (I think that was the term he used) or even "PR guy" telling us what to say or when or how to say it, and coordinating some "ninja PR" (whatever the fuck that is). We have informal discussions occasionally to decide a few key message items, mostly when it comes to things like (what to say and what not to say about) release schedules of future improvements (database, GUI, etc.). Then we go off and communicate. That's it. Well, now that you know our secret "ninja PR" plan, you are welcome to copy it if you like.

The closest we do get to actually organized PR message crafting is me occasionally suggesting to the other guys to be polite and not express anger or hostility toward the other coins even when they feel they have valid grievances. But these are real people and emotions sometimes run high, so it happens.

[wpalczynski]

Nice try LMAO.  Another brand new shill account making baseless, unsubstantiated accusations against Monero and it's community.

I am not very surprised that this thread has been designed to be Monero's PR campaign. I'm not really into posting on forums, but I've been watching XMR PR closely for some time and I have something to add to this insanity. Based on the writing styles I'm pretty sure that certain accounts in this thread are maintained by a much smaller group of people led by a decent PR expert. I was not really into saying anything... until the 12th page where shit becomes totally ridiculous.

Beg me pardon gentlemen but that is what we may call ninja-PR. For those unfamiliar with the basics here's a small cookbook.


Monero ninja-PR cookbook, recipe 24

First, you use unverified facts to discredit every single CryptoNote currency (regardless of the real facts) and CryptoNote itself.

Second, a couple of your talking heads and a few of your "supporters" attack each and every CryptoNote coin supporters that enter this thread. Regardless of facts, perfectly clear opinions, and logic. Just act aggressively, blame them, make them explain themselves, and you're good. And don't forget to troll.

Third, you start flooding the thread with irrelevant posts to weaken the contrast between steps 2 and 4. Better let the topic stop being hot before you proceed with this step though.

Fourth, you make amateur unexpectedly positive statements about Monero's perspectives. But you better lay it on your "supporters", you're not supposed to be controlling their actions, right? And of course you may go back to the first point, rethink your strategy, and let the "third party" tell the "truth".

Fifth, you walk into the thread like a boss and give a couple of smart short statements that your PR agent has prepared for this small chat on the thread. Maybe the media will like it, who knows.


So?

Little bit too obvious, really. You're not bad guys, you're just acting horribly. Stop being so arrogant, it's going to kill the whole idea, seriously.