[SDC] ShadowCash | Welcome to the UMBRA

[BaxterJames]

^^ Good point Automatic Monkey, I would suggest a checklist system with various categories as a way around that problem.  The user would go through and decide what they do and don't want to see the first time they open the marketplace.  That should hopefully take some of the heat off of the devs.

[1714803022]

1714803022

[Tears on Dope]

there should be at least something to keep those sick pedophiles from selling in the market like a report button or some shit

You cannot moderate a truly decentralized solution. I do hate the idea of CP being on it though... This is a healthy concern to have.

You can influence the user though. Say X amount of negativity = user ban.

Or simply have a restriction in the coding process of the marketplace which initiates a block when a user tries to sell an "unwanted" item. There can be a built in list of "unwanted" items.

Another option is having an account setting.

Change settings to only view "Safe" "Moderate" "Explicit" content.

Both based on the user's selling level and on the item which is listed into a specific category.

Account settings would be a good idea. You would think people selling those things would only display them to people who have an interest in seeing it, but you never know.

Unfortunately any kind of blocking or filtering on the seller end will lead to liability for whoever designed the filter. "Why is CP defined as unwanted but not dumps or drugs? Can we take that to mean you intended to facilitate the sale of dumps and drugs?"

Then you have the problem of determining what is CP and what isn't. Even LE can't always tell for sure.

there are plenty of sick fucks out who would display it
my daughter almost got kidnapped at elementary i thank god that she knew to punch a man in the balls to escape she goes to private school now idgaf how much it costs at least i know shes safe
as for the guy hes lucky i didnt get my hands on him hes looking at 20 years with a 15k fine thats not good and  thats still not good enough

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[P3RS3US]

On Pedophiles and Terrorists

How many of our personal freedoms and liberties have we already lost to this tiny tiny group of fucked up individuals? How many lazy politicians have pushed their fascist agenda holding onto these mantras to terrify us?

Whilst I do not condone such freaks it may be a Fool's errand to try and prevent such activities. Even with a ranking/banning/filtering system such illicit activities would be near impossible to prevent on a decentralized and anonymized network.

Shadow is not about censorship and if Shadow were to begin acting as a censor than I might have to re-consider my position here. Perhaps a solution can be found to this problem without affecting the platform's decentralization, but I doubt it.

The simple fact is pedophiles and terrorists can communicate securely using ShadowChat and send themselves anonymized transactions using ShadowSend right NOW. Would we ask Ryno to backdoor ShadowChat? No. Never.

I sense this could become a heated debate so I leave you for now with words from the great Benjamin Franklin.

[QNaka]

there should be at least something to keep those sick pedophiles from selling in the market like a report button or some shit

You cannot moderate a truly decentralized solution. I do hate the idea of CP being on it though... This is a healthy concern to have.

You can influence the user though. Say X amount of negativity = user ban.

Or simply have a restriction in the coding process of the marketplace which initiates a block when a user tries to sell an "unwanted" item. There can be a built in list of "unwanted" items.

Another option is having an account setting.

Change settings to only view "Safe" "Moderate" "Explicit" content.

Both based on the user's selling level and on the item which is listed into a specific category.

Account settings would be a good idea. You would think people selling those things would only display them to people who have an interest in seeing it, but you never know.

Unfortunately any kind of blocking or filtering on the seller end will lead to liability for whoever designed the filter. "Why is CP defined as unwanted but not dumps or drugs? Can we take that to mean you intended to facilitate the sale of dumps and drugs?"

Then you have the problem of determining what is CP and what isn't. Even LE can't always tell for sure.

there are plenty of sick fucks out who would display it
my daughter almost got kidnapped at elementary i thank god that she knew to punch a man in the balls to escape she goes to private school now idgaf how much it costs at least i know shes safe
as for the guy hes lucky i didnt get my hands on him hes looking at 20 years with a 15k fine thats not good and  thats still not good enough

The CP issue definitely is something that has to be addressed, even having thumbnails floating is going to be unacceptable for 99% of the users.

And what stops someone from linking CP under non-explicit categories inserting these thumbnails into everyones client?
80% of the Darknet traffic is estimated to be CP related: http://www.wired.com/2014/12/80-percent-dark-web-visits-relate-pedophilia-study-finds/

if SDMarket holds its promises and becomes decentralized with a untraceable payment system attached then the CP issue might be the biggest problem down the road.

Keep SDMarket decentralized and unmoderated but come up with some way to avoid problems like these.

[Wheatclove]

a free market is a free market.

i think the best thing to do would be to make all listings only reachable through keyword searching (limiting a posting to 1-2 keywords) with a small fee for listing.

also, no thumbnails in search results.

if you don't want to see CP, don't search for CP.

[dasource]

Keep the suggestions coming guys, better still jump on slack so we can discuss in more details.

[SockPuppetAccount]

Regarding the concerns over CP, there really is no way to prevent it if the market is truly decentralized and anonymous.  You have to take the good with the bad.  

Regulating CP on the marketplace would be akin to TOR developers removing all hidden services that host CP.  The fact that it would even be possible to do would undermine the point of TOR existing in the first place!

It's freedom for all or freedom for none unfortunately.  As someone pointed out earlier, it would also place liability on whoever created the filter to block CP.  The SDC devs are simply releasing open source software that works with the SDC protocol.  They have no legal responsibility for how it is used after it is released into the wild, and I would want to keep it that way if I were the SDC devs.

Anyway, I doubt it will become as big of a problem as some are speculating because I don't think much CP is produced or sold for profit.  CP is produced and traded by a tiny subculture of sick individuals generally for the purpose of sexual gratification, not money.  That has been my understanding anyway unless someone can provide some credible numbers on the amount of CP produced for monetary gain.

[Tears on Dope]

at least i know who the pedophiles are in this thread sick bastards

[QNaka]

a free market is a free market.

i think the best thing to do would be to make all listings only reachable through keyword searching (limiting a posting to 1-2 keywords) with a small fee for listing.

also, no thumbnails in search results.

if you don't want to see CP, don't search for CP.

This does not solve the issue with CP popping up under categories when you are just searching through the market.

I was thinking about a voting system:

1. Seller lists item in category for the first time and it gets posted in a non-filtered version of this category.
2. After X hours the item gets bumped up in the regular category listing unless he receives X votes for placing an item in the wrong category.
* users could select whether they would want to see un-filtered results AND filtered or only filtered.
* The item will remain in the un-filtered category for X days until another promotion to the regular categories can be requested
3. If a user has sold X items in a certain category the items he posts would get bumped to the regular listings right away.

Or does this sound crazy?

[dasource]

One of the ideas we are playing with is the ability to up/down vote and maybe the ability to vote to move items ....

Will this make v1, likely not but we are putting thoughts into how we can empower the people to choose what they want in their decentralised market.

All ideas atm and require lots more thrashing out.

[fearcoka]

there should be at least something to keep those sick pedophiles from selling in the market like a report button or some shit

You cannot moderate a truly decentralized solution. I do hate the idea of CP being on it though... This is a healthy concern to have.

You can influence the user though. Say X amount of negativity = user ban.

Or simply have a restriction in the coding process of the marketplace which initiates a block when a user tries to sell an "unwanted" item. There can be a built in list of "unwanted" items.

Another option is having an account setting.

Change settings to only view "Safe" "Moderate" "Explicit" content.

Both based on the user's selling level and on the item which is listed into a specific category.

"Change settings to only view "Safe" "Moderate" "Explicit" content."
they would still be able to sell in the market what you said is basically dust it under the rug and forget about it which i cant no one with a conscious should

I agree to a certain extent. There is nothing I would want more than eliminating CP trust me.

But we need to look beyond the actual problem if we want to fix it.

What im about to say might shock you amongst others but this is the reality.

We are investors in this current project. We are not yet users nor consumers of SDC's marketplace.
We want the price to rise don't we? And we want it fast! Don't we?

The fastest way to get the marketplace noticed and filled with millions if not billions of dollars is the mergin of EXO along with other types of silkroad's that have gotten shut down.

Now, don't tell me EXO was selling carpets and coffee beans.

If we want mass adoption to our marketplace we need to allow drugs, weapons and all kinds of activity that can bring heavy money into the market.

Which is why we can have "safe" "moderate" "explicit" settings. If you don't want to see weapons for sale, dont go searching for them. But one way or another, it will be on there. So will CP. If there is money to be made, there will be buyers and sellers of any kind. THIS cannot be controlled it will ALWAYS be there. Our goal should be to minimize the risk of CP being listed and not Eliminating it. Eliminating it will cause uncontrollable problems in the long run.

What if "Soy Beans" becomes the new "CP" listing. How could we ever know? It will just disperse itself all over the marketplace and BEFORE we actually get REAL business on the marketplace, such as cars, computers, tv's, bikes and your daily normal listings we must make sure the market isnt flooded with drugs/weapons/CP that are being "stealthly" listed amongst the normal listings. How could we control drugs that are being listed in the "TV" categories.

We need to make a strong decision here. Either we minimize the unwanted items and have them into some sord of "deep web" style "explicit" marketplace for those who are searching specifically for those listings, far away from your average computer user who thinks this is a cool amazon style anonymous marketplace. Or we try to eliminate it and deal with the consequences of your average computer user who wants to look for cars and all he finds is drugs and CP. That users will leave, will sell his Tokens and spread bad rumours about the marketplace.

Sometimes the obvious choice isn't the right one for long term success.

[DudeWheresMyCoin]

CP is an issue that I think 100% of the people here are concerned about. However, adding moderation to the system might become fundamental flaw and negate the entire system. The voting system is something worth looking at. Maybe focusing the system on shipped items versus downloadable items is the solution instead of moderation. That way if a user is selling and shipping CP it will make it somewhat easier for LE to focus their attention on those sales instead of others.

[dasource]

a free market is a free market.

i think the best thing to do would be to make all listings only reachable through keyword searching (limiting a posting to 1-2 keywords) with a small fee for listing.

also, no thumbnails in search results.

if you don't want to see CP, don't search for CP.

This does not solve the issue with CP popping up under categories when you are just searching through the market.

I was thinking about a voting system:

1. Seller lists item in category for the first time and it gets posted in a non-filtered version of this category.
2. After X hours the item gets bumped up in the regular category listing unless he receives X votes for placing an item in the wrong category.
* users could select whether they would want to see un-filtered results AND filtered or only filtered.
* The item will remain in the un-filtered category for X days until another promotion to the regular categories can be requested
3. If a user has sold X items in a certain category the items he posts would get bumped to the regular listings right away.

Or does this sound crazy?

Sounds reasonable ... Making it work in a decentralised fashion could be something else

[dasource]

CP is an issue that I think 100% of the people here are concerned about. However, adding moderation to the system might become fundamental flaw and negate the entire system. The voting system is something worth looking at. Maybe focusing the system on shipped items versus downloadable items is the solution instead of moderation. That way if a user is selling and shipping CP it will make it somewhat easier for LE to focus their attention on those sales instead of others.

Good way to look at it ...

[DudeWheresMyCoin]

CP is an issue that I think 100% of the people here are concerned about. However, adding moderation to the system might become fundamental flaw and negate the entire system. The voting system is something worth looking at. Maybe focusing the system on shipped items versus downloadable items is the solution instead of moderation. That way if a user is selling and shipping CP it will make it somewhat easier for LE to focus their attention on those sales instead of others.

Good way to look at that ...

Shipped items will be the bulk of sales anyways from video cards used in mining to clothing. At some point in the near future when the community has come to general consensus on moderation technology then the developers can introduce downloadable content. It would be less of a strain on the network anyways to have to manage uploads and file transfers. By that time we should have reached a critical mass of users on the marketplace and the feedback would be coming from actual use cases instead of speculation on the what or how.

[QNaka]

CP is an issue that I think 100% of the people here are concerned about. However, adding moderation to the system might become fundamental flaw and negate the entire system. The voting system is something worth looking at. Maybe focusing the system on shipped items versus downloadable items is the solution instead of moderation. That way if a user is selling and shipping CP it will make it somewhat easier for LE to focus their attention on those sales instead of others.

Good way to look at that ...

Shipped items will be the bulk of sales anyways from video cards used in mining to clothing. At some point in the near future when the community has come to general consensus on moderation technology then the developers can introduce downloadable content. It would be less of a strain on the network anyways to have to manage uploads and file transfers. By that time we should have reached a critical mass of users on the marketplace and the feedback would be coming from actual use cases instead of speculation on the what or how.

This would indeed be a great way to go about it.

[dasource]

CP is an issue that I think 100% of the people here are concerned about. However, adding moderation to the system might become fundamental flaw and negate the entire system. The voting system is something worth looking at. Maybe focusing the system on shipped items versus downloadable items is the solution instead of moderation. That way if a user is selling and shipping CP it will make it somewhat easier for LE to focus their attention on those sales instead of others.

Good way to look at that ...

Shipped items will be the bulk of sales anyways from video cards used in mining to clothing. At some point in the near future when the community has come to general consensus on moderation technology then the developers can introduce downloadable content. It would be less of a strain on the network anyways to have to manage uploads and file transfers. By that time we should have reached a critical mass of users on the marketplace and the feedback would be coming from actual use cases instead of speculation on the what or how.

I like your thinking ... Certainly gives time to see which way things move

[erok]

I think you cannot moderate without painting a target on yourself. Community moderation is the only option and the only way I see that working is Reddit/Digg style with upvotes and a threshold to get nuked on the downvote end.

But even then you would have proxy vote wars going on between vendors. It is a cache-22. <--- see what I did there.

[DudeWheresMyCoin]

Shipped items will be the bulk of sales anyways from video cards used in mining to clothing. At some point in the near future when the community has come to general consensus on moderation technology then the developers can introduce downloadable content. It would be less of a strain on the network anyways to have to manage uploads and file transfers. By that time we should have reached a critical mass of users on the marketplace and the feedback would be coming from actual use cases instead of speculation on the what or how.

This would indeed be a great way to go about it.

I like your thinking ... Certainly gives time to see which way things move

The workaround would be any digital items like video games or proprietary software i.e. photoshop, could be put onto thumb drives with the associated license and shipped like any other item. CP is more of an issue for torrent type software (i2p) than a marketplace.

I think you cannot moderate without painting a target on yourself. Community moderation is the only option and the only way I see that working is Reddit/Digg style with upvotes and a threshold to get nuked on the downvote end.

But even then you would have proxy vote wars going on between vendors. It is a cache-22. <--- see what I did there.

The vendors could potentially use the moderation system to shut down their competition. If its a node based system the only benefit I could see is it would require them to run more nodes which as a result would further secure the network. However, I don't think the tradeoff is worth it. Not until the team gets feedback from marketplace users.