Shakaru Class Action

[JusticeForYou]

ah.. Ok. Thanks for the clarification.


lol, another for Bitcoin Firsts. The first online BTC Bankruptcy. Pretty good idea actually. Cheaper than lawyers too...

[1714142887]

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[1714142887]

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[Freeway]

LMAO..thanks.  We will be sure to mention you 

[Bitsinmyhead]

I really appreciate your efforts here freeway. Even though I have sold most of the debt shakaru owes me, he still owes me a I3 2100 CPU.

I am also of the opinion that shakaru needs to be brought to justice here. All of you talking about how he can just file for bankruptcy are wrong. That would probably have worked if he had run his business in an honest way, but what shakaru has done here is outright theft. He can not just file for bankruptcy and have all his problems go away.

It seems a lot of the people in this thread are not totally aware of the situation so here is a summary:
-August 2011 shakaru sold mining contracts for 45+GH/s, for a total of more than $20 0000.
-Shakaru also started the two GLBSE companies SDM and SDM.LEVA, I am not sure how much he got from this, but he never bought the mining equipment the company contracts stated he was supposed to buy. These contracts are very clear and shakaru took the money from the IPOs and used it on personal stuff. Clear theft.
-Only a few of the smaller contracts ever started up, but they did not run for long.
-I had paid extra to be able to log into my mining rig remotely. I tried to do this one day after the rig had not been working for a few days. What I found was the rig mining on shakaru's own deepbit account.
-Shakaru has given various excuses for the problems, often changing his story, blaming it on other people scamming him, blaming it on the electricity company etc. Many of the stories have been totally unrealistic and many of them have been exposed as pure lies. For example, he blamed the forum user mrbashfoo for running of with 4 4U racks of hardware, 15 x 5830 graphic cards and more, but it turned out the only hardware mrbashfoo had gotten from shakaru was some stuff he was going to throw away.
-Trying to get shakaru to pay his debt has been a pure nightmare. Him dodging PMs, e-mails and Skype IMs. Always lying about when he could send you a few coins etc.
-It turns out that in addition to selling the mining contracts he has also been taking loans from various forum members, even when he knew he could not pay them back.

From freeway we have learned:
-Shakaru stole rent money that was given to him, and did not pay the rent resulting in them being evicted.
-He has  spent a lot of money at the bar during this period.
-Shakaru bought a lot of very nice Christmas gifts this past Christmas.
-He never had mining equipment that could produce anywhere near the 45GH/s contracts he sold.
-At the moment he does not have anything of value or any mining rigs, he is broke.

All in all shakaru is a theif, pathological liar and a scammer. I do not think anything he says should be trusted. The only way I see him getting hold of any money to pay back his debt is if he runs another big scam here. That is why I am warning everyone about him. I do not like that he is running a trading bot at GLBSE and I think there is a good chance he will just steal all the money put into it.

[imsaguy]

I find these comments directed at freeway pretty disturbing. Why bash someone who is trying to recover funds wasted by shakaru ? Not to mention how the hell cant shakaru have any of the funds available, did he really blast it all away and only then realised he had no funds available o_0

Makes no sense considering Freeway is putting in effort and shakaru is merely delaying consistently to meet her requests to meet and discuss the issue in person.

freeway has a right to recover her debt

but to me she's acting like a kicking screaming teenage brat that i just couldn't bothered dealing with (i.e. sick of reading it).

And I guess since you are the adult, you are selling your debt on an auction.  I could help you to get more.  But you are impatient and unwilling to go the distance.

I really hope a proper law suit comes from this since I just dont see shakaru owning up to anything after reading everything he had to say in recent days.

It would atleast put bitcoin on the map regarding some legalities and users might start to think twice before wasting other peoples money the way it seems shakaru have gone about things.

It will. Which I is why I started a new thread.  I am afraid some of the info that I will receive through 3rd parties may be compromised as I cannot verify chain of control.  Therefore I am requesting clean copies of everything that can be verified by you the owner/debtor, notarized even, then it can be verified again by forensics that it has not been altered.

DeathandTaxes has a good thread that I am following that can assist in making this a good case.  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=49854.msg832083#msg832083

I think the only reason payb.tc is attacking me is, he has a lot to lose, he is auctioning his debt, and he may have been falsely charged with Andrew.  dunno.  IMHO

I have a long time friend who has represented me before.  And would love to take this.  Could make him and BTC very big.  Just my opinion

At some point a person has to wonder... why should they/we trust you?  Some of your behavior does set off red flags.  At first you seemed normal and easy to get along with.  The longer you're around, the less I trust you.  You need to cut the rhetoric and threats out and stick to the facts.  

Second, if you are so worried about chain of custody, then perhaps you should have had better/more in depth conversations with those people who collected all this info.  At least see where we initially got our info.  Instead, you've thrown it all out completely and want to start from scratch.  In addition, you want it all via pm so no one can dispute/refute any claims.  Unless someone is going to assign you paperwork that allows you to act on their behalf (again, why should they trust you), they are wasting their time.  

[vampire]

If Shakaru has no money, how is supposed to pay?

Chapter 11 is debt consolidation, Chapter 7 is complete debt write off. You can try to get him on fraud charges, but I don't think that would easy at all. If this was in NYS, I could provide you with a lawyer. California bar exam is a bitch.
 

[payb.tc]

I think the only reason payb.tc is attacking me is, he has a lot to lose

saw this via imsaguy's post... the way i see it, i only have 75 btc to lose (thanks brian).

he may have been falsely charged with Andrew.

absolutely nfi what this part even means, but it's throwing around these kind of unfounded/unproven rumours that make me really dislike you.

[copumpkin]

If Shakaru has no money, how is supposed to pay?

Chapter 11 is debt consolidation, Chapter 7 is complete debt write off. You can try to get him on fraud charges, but I don't think that would easy at all. If this was in NYS, I could provide you with a lawyer. California bar exam is a bitch.
 

Wage garnishment, liens on his property (a car?), etc.

In most places, having no money is no excuse for taking someone's money and not paying it back.

[vampire]

Wage garnishment, liens on his property (a car?), etc.

In most places, having no money is no excuse for taking someone's money and not paying it back.

Chapter 7, if approved by a court, completely eliminates most of debt (except student, some federal). Chapter 11 does exactly what you're referring to.

Of course Shakaru didn't think it through. It's silly to start a business without an incorporation (LLC or C corp) in US. This way only assets of the company are to be seized, well unless there was a clear case of fraud :-)

I am working on a new project for bitcoin, and I am in process of incorporating a new business. It's just a good business practice.

[BadBear]

and I am in process of incorporating a new business. It's just a good business practice.

Indeed. Most people probably don't realize what it can do for you and how (relatively) easy it is.

[Clipse]

Wether he files or not I couldnt care about, the problem is that even in debt he is again GLBSE listing a new project.

Im fairly certain in most countries if not all if you are liquidated/filing for bankruptcy, you cant go and start another potential debt based(investors money) company right of the bat, generally you must remain debt free for a couple of years and in our country that is 10years!

[Clipse]

Wage garnishment, liens on his property (a car?), etc.

In most places, having no money is no excuse for taking someone's money and not paying it back.

Chapter 7, if approved by a court, completely eliminates most of debt (except student, some federal). Chapter 11 does exactly what you're referring to.

Of course Shakaru didn't think it through. It's silly to start a business without an incorporation (LLC or C corp) in US. This way only assets of the company are to be seized, well unless there was a clear case of fraud :-)

I am working on a new project for bitcoin, and I am in process of incorporating a new business. It's just a good business practice.

Great information, I will be sure never to do business with you since it seems you prefer solutions that easily removes all blame since the law allows you to.

Dont you believe in personal responsibility? Sad.

[mcorlett]

Great information, I will be sure never to do business with you since it seems you prefer solutions that easily removes all blame since the law allows you to.

Dont you believe in personal responsibility? Sad.

You only do business with private individuals?

[vampire]

in our country that is 10years!

Not 10 years, it's 0 years. 10 years stays on his credit report.

[vampire]

Great information, I will be sure never to do business with you since it seems you prefer solutions that easily removes all blame since the law allows you to.

Dont you believe in personal responsibility? Sad.

You should do research about incorporation. Except protection of personal assets, there are a lot more benefits. Here is an example:


I founded a company XYZ, I invested into that company $10000 of my personal funds. The company failed, now I can write off $10000 of my personal income.
Also taxation is lower for companies, it's an another benefit.


If I don't use all the benefits that US laws system provides, someone else would and gained an edge over me :-) Also bitcoin itself is a risky business, a layer of legal protection would be beneficial for everyone. If US gov decides to go after bitcoiners, they would have to deal with my company first :-)

[likuidxd]

FTR, I am with Payb.tc on this one. A law suit is a absolute last resort for a dead beat who isn't willing to/is trying to run away from a responsibility. For some reason I have serious doubts a court of law in the US is going to do a damn thing about contracts sold on a public forum for what they look at as monopoly money.
So far Andrew has paid in and shows signs that he wants to work this out. There are a lot of upset people that Andrew owes money to, but it's money people. It comes, it goes... Remember, $20,000 doesn't just appear from one person, most people take 15 years to pay that off with interest.

Andrew- Thanks for not running away from this, so far
Freeway- Take a breather, for now
Bitsinmyhead- Flies on walls don't talk, they buzz

[DeathAndTaxes]

Wether he files or not I couldnt care about, the problem is that even in debt he is again GLBSE listing a new project.

Im fairly certain in most countries if not all if you are liquidated/filing for bankruptcy, you cant go and start another potential debt based(investors money) company right of the bat, generally you must remain debt free for a couple of years and in our country that is 10years!

No such requirement in the US once BK is discharged.  Of course investors should look at inability to pay debts (BK or not BK) as a warning sign.  Actually I haven't heard of any such requirement in any country so while it may exist it isn't very common.  The whole point of BK (generally speaking) is to write off debt which can't be recovered and allow the entity/individual to move forward.

[Freeway]

I find these comments directed at freeway pretty disturbing. Why bash someone who is trying to recover funds wasted by shakaru ? Not to mention how the hell cant shakaru have any of the funds available, did he really blast it all away and only then realised he had no funds available o_0

Makes no sense considering Freeway is putting in effort and shakaru is merely delaying consistently to meet her requests to meet and discuss the issue in person.

freeway has a right to recover her debt

but to me she's acting like a kicking screaming teenage brat that i just couldn't bothered dealing with (i.e. sick of reading it).

And I guess since you are the adult, you are selling your debt on an auction.  I could help you to get more.  But you are impatient and unwilling to go the distance.

I really hope a proper law suit comes from this since I just dont see shakaru owning up to anything after reading everything he had to say in recent days.

It would atleast put bitcoin on the map regarding some legalities and users might start to think twice before wasting other peoples money the way it seems shakaru have gone about things.

It will. Which I is why I started a new thread.  I am afraid some of the info that I will receive through 3rd parties may be compromised as I cannot verify chain of control.  Therefore I am requesting clean copies of everything that can be verified by you the owner/debtor, notarized even, then it can be verified again by forensics that it has not been altered.

DeathandTaxes has a good thread that I am following that can assist in making this a good case.  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=49854.msg832083#msg832083

I think the only reason payb.tc is attacking me is, he has a lot to lose, he is auctioning his debt, and he may have been falsely charged with Andrew.  dunno.  IMHO

I have a long time friend who has represented me before.  And would love to take this.  Could make him and BTC very big.  Just my opinion

At some point a person has to wonder... why should they/we trust you?  Some of your behavior does set off red flags.  At first you seemed normal and easy to get along with.  The longer you're around, the less I trust you.  You need to cut the rhetoric and threats out and stick to the facts. 

Second, if you are so worried about chain of custody, then perhaps you should have had better/more in depth conversations with those people who collected all this info.  At least see where we initially got our info.  Instead, you've thrown it all out completely and want to start from scratch.  In addition, you want it all via pm so no one can dispute/refute any claims.  Unless someone is going to assign you paperwork that allows you to act on their behalf (again, why should they trust you), they are wasting their time. 

What I am actually interested in trying to find would be the block chains showing where the money went once it was in  Andrews hands.  We know for a fact it was sent to him.  We know some was sent back to the original investors.  But if we can show the majority was withdrawn directly by him, or used by him online for misc purchases un-related to his op, we have a case where a legal money judgement can be obtained along with wage orders, in case he continues to give promises with no results.

[imsaguy]

What I am actually interested in trying to find would be the block chains showing where the money went once it was in  Andrews hands.  We know for a fact it was sent to him.  We know some was sent back to the original investors.  But if we can show the majority was withdrawn directly by him, or used by him online for misc purchases un-related to his op, we have a case where a legal money judgement can be obtained along with wage orders, in case he continues to give promises with no results.

Well, if you had read the thread, you'd see where people listed the addresses they sent to and the address to which they received or were supposed to have received.  Not all of it was done via btc however, some was via Paypal.  Has your lawyer researched the dispute resolution clauses in Paypal's terms of service? What about interstate debts?  I think you're going to find that including the bitcoin piece of this in your legal case is going to drastically complicate things.  Its already been established that payb.tc is owed the largest sum and at the moment he doesn't seem interested to go along with your stuff.

[Freeway]

What I am actually interested in trying to find would be the block chains showing where the money went once it was in  Andrews hands.  We know for a fact it was sent to him.  We know some was sent back to the original investors.  But if we can show the majority was withdrawn directly by him, or used by him online for misc purchases un-related to his op, we have a case where a legal money judgement can be obtained along with wage orders, in case he continues to give promises with no results.

Well, if you had read the thread, you'd see where people listed the addresses they sent to and the address to which they received or were supposed to have received.  Not all of it was done via btc however, some was via Paypal.  Has your lawyer researched the dispute resolution clauses in Paypal's terms of service? What about interstate debts?  I think you're going to find that including the bitcoin piece of this in your legal case is going to drastically complicate things.  Its already been established that payb.tc is owed the largest sum and at the moment he doesn't seem interested to go along with your stuff.

Which is why I did state earlier we are doing a lot of research before we do anything.  I know that Paypal and interstate transfer are included.  What we don't understand is how to link btc chains work and how to link them.

[rjk]

What I am actually interested in trying to find would be the block chains showing where the money went once it was in  Andrews hands.  We know for a fact it was sent to him.  We know some was sent back to the original investors.  But if we can show the majority was withdrawn directly by him, or used by him online for misc purchases un-related to his op, we have a case where a legal money judgement can be obtained along with wage orders, in case he continues to give promises with no results.

Well, if you had read the thread, you'd see where people listed the addresses they sent to and the address to which they received or were supposed to have received.  Not all of it was done via btc however, some was via Paypal.  Has your lawyer researched the dispute resolution clauses in Paypal's terms of service? What about interstate debts?  I think you're going to find that including the bitcoin piece of this in your legal case is going to drastically complicate things.  Its already been established that payb.tc is owed the largest sum and at the moment he doesn't seem interested to go along with your stuff.

Which is why I did state earlier we are doing a lot of research before we do anything.  I know that Paypal and interstate transfer are included.  What we don't understand is how to link btc chains work and how to link them.

Sounds like you have a lot of research ahead of you. Unfortunately, it is extremely complicated.

To get you started: There is only one blockchain, and it contains a single ledger of all transactions. You can explore it here: http://blockchain.info/ or here: http://blockexplorer.com/