Bitcoin has reached the tipping point

[devphp]

But it's not the tipping point after which it grows exponentially, no. It's the tipping point where people start fleeing it en masse to other technologies and undervalued cryptos. After all, why would you buy Bitcoin if you can buy something cheaper, which does the same, or even better - if you can buy something cheaper which does the same and then a few other things. Bitcoin was the bootstrapping crypto, now is the time for other technologies to take its place. It won't happen overnight, but the process has begun.

[amytheplanarshift]

Agreed. I also think the tipping point has been reached or at least will be reached in the very near future. A lot of people will most certainly call me crazy, but Bitcoin is dead to me.

[digitalindustry]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=760879.0

[rockethead]

Agreed. I also think the tipping point has been reached or at least will be reached in the very near future. A lot of people will most certainly call me crazy, but Bitcoin is dead to me.

I said that quite a while ago when Bitcoin was near high in November last year and I was ridiculed and laughed at by some of these people in a meetup. Perhaps their minds are too simple.

Bitcoin will see its last days. Maybe not tomorrow, but definitely before the end of the decade. The irony is, everyone is talking about bitcoin! We have banks, we have businesses, we have giant companies wanting to jump in the bandwagon and we have miners putting in 10s of millions of serious money into mining these coins. And no one can see the obvious storm that is looming ahead. Are they blind?

[digitalindustry]

Agreed. I also think the tipping point has been reached or at least will be reached in the very near future. A lot of people will most certainly call me crazy, but Bitcoin is dead to me.

I said that quite a while ago when Bitcoin was near high in November last year and I was ridiculed and laughed at by some of these people in a meetup. Perhaps their minds are too simple.

Bitcoin will see its last days. Maybe not tomorrow, but definitely before the end of the decade. The irony is, everyone is talking about bitcoin! We have banks, we have businesses, we have giant companies wanting to jump in the bandwagon and we have miners putting in 10s of millions of serious money into mining these coins. And no one can see the obvious storm that is looming ahead. Are they blind?

I don't think Banks are talking about Bitcoin, they tried to push "protocols" Banks can not accept a decentralized ledger.

I do agree that a lot of capital is going into mining, that's amusing, but as I said China will win that race (even though they started from half way, post first halving basically)

I fully well expect that this recent Difficulty rise put a lot of original monopolists way back in % share.



Essentially now Bitcoin is their "plaything" (which is the way it should be), now if there is a ramp it will be dumped on.

[JimminyCricket]

BTC is just King Alt.

People are gonna be so depressed when BTC continues its downward slope

                                       

LOL

[Winner]

I think that bitcoin might get to $250, might drop even below that.

I could be wrong however...

[chanz]

BTC is just King Alt.

People are gonna be so depressed when BTC continues its downward slope

They already are!

I think that bitcoin might get to $250, might drop even below that.

I could be wrong however...

Least we'll see is 450 i think, it shouldn't drop any further than that imo but who knows.

[TYDIRocks]

You can't buy even a fraction of what you can with Bitcoin. You are just thinking in terms of specifications, most of which don't matter.

[rockethead]

In my opinion, an altcoin should only be used as a fuel to oil the machinery of a decentralized ecosystem. It should not be a business in itself and mining should not be an "all important" role.

Mining should run in the background of a wallet as part of the block chain ledger keeping and should not take too much RAM or energy.

What is most important is that the ecosystem will find its way into bringing real world needs into it.

Anyway, that is Crypto 2.0 and beyond.

[waldocarter]

I don't see Bitcoin going away any time soon. It's the only crypto currently widely accepted in real businesses where you can buy real tangible stuff other than mining rigs/contracts (with the only purpose of just generating more of the same currency you just spent).+

It will take a lot of time and trust from businesses to switch or accept a different crypto. Just look at this sub, full of forks/relaunches/fails because everyone and their sisters want to have their own cryptocoin to milk the hype train.

I'm a firm believer that altcoins are just experiments that serve as a proof of concept for things that can be integrated into the Bitcoin protocol, and some surely will do in the not-so-far-ahead future.

[devphp]

BTC is just King Alt.

People are gonna be so depressed when BTC continues its downward slope

                                       

LOL

You will be sad only if you don't invest your Bitcoins into advancing technologies. Bitcoins act as seed capital, Bitcoins fuel and propel all the other crypto 2.0 technologies, decentralized companies, etc. It makes no sense sitting on Bitcoins. Bitcoins can potentially give you 1-10x returns over the next 5 years, keeping with inflation or not. But crypto 2.0 technologies and decentralized companies stock can potentially give you 10-1000x returns over the same period.

I don't see Bitcoin going away any time soon. It's the only crypto currently widely accepted in real businesses where you can buy real tangible stuff other than mining rigs/contracts (with the only purpose of just generating more of the same currency you just spent).+

What you don't understand is real businesses have operating costs and they don't care about whether it's Bitcoins or some other crypto. Their operating costs are paid for in fiat, they have to pay their shareholders in fiat, that's why they immediately exchange most of their cryptos back to fiat through payment processors. Payment processors have no problem implementing several cryptos for convenience of the merchants' customers.

The only companies that don't immediately exchange (everything) to fiat is companies that were founded with crypto capital in the first place, and those will operate on those crypto 2.0 technologies. That's why it doesn't make sense to just sit on Bitcoins instead of investing them wisely.

[Carlture]

I think that bitcoin might get to $250, might drop even below that.

I could be wrong however...

i don't think so, it will be rise to it should be.

[digitalindustry]

I don't see Bitcoin going away any time soon.

Why not?

if you know anything you know it is fundamentally flawed which has been all but admitted now by the lead developers.

It's the only crypto currently widely accepted in real businesses where you can buy real tangible stuff other than mining rigs/contracts (with the only purpose of just generating more of the same currency you just spent).+

It will take a lot of time and trust from businesses to switch or accept a different crypto. Just look at this sub, full of forks/relaunches/fails because everyone and their sisters want to have their own cryptocoin to milk the hype train.

Most of the "Businesses" your are talking about will be bankrupt in the next 10 years as their business models are outdated an unsustainable, i can give many examples.

so its not so much about what the few "type writer" businesses think now, but its about a whole new crop of business that will pop up, the West can choose to be a police state or it can choose to innovate, its that's simple.

it is really just that simple.

I'm a firm believer that altcoins are just experiments that serve as a proof of concept for things that can be integrated into the Bitcoin protocol, and some surely will do in the not-so-far-ahead future.

there is absolutely no evidence to suggest one shred of what you are spewing here is real, in fact "Bitcoin" the brand took no action to remedy the monopoly issues and has taken no action even on the most simply innovations.

so perhaps it will innovate but it will be then at "market price" making it a good "brand" but all the first movers of the industry will at that time be "brands"

so you see us humans are doing that little thing where we look at the 15minute chart and get excited about 3 months ahead.

[asdlolciterquit]

But it's not the tipping point after which it grows exponentially, no. It's the tipping point where people start fleeing it en masse to other technologies and undervalued cryptos. After all, why would you buy Bitcoin if you can buy something cheaper, which does the same, or even better - if you can buy something cheaper which does the same and then a few other things. Bitcoin was the bootstrapping crypto, now is the time for other technologies to take its place. It won't happen overnight, but the process has begun.

uhm...i disagree.

How can you know that? have you seen some other altcoin with a huge rise of volume in the last 2 months? And this or these rise are comparable with the decrease of btc's volume?

Only if you can prove this, i can agree with you.

[Whitehouse]

But it's not the tipping point after which it grows exponentially, no. It's the tipping point where people start fleeing it en masse to other technologies and undervalued cryptos. After all, why would you buy Bitcoin if you can buy something cheaper, which does the same, or even better - if you can buy something cheaper which does the same and then a few other things. Bitcoin was the bootstrapping crypto, now is the time for other technologies to take its place. It won't happen overnight, but the process has begun.

Why would you buy something else when it offers nothing at all? There's a reason why most alts are worth very little because there's just no demand for them. In fact, the only people who seem to want them are those who think they might get rich off them like they missed the chnace with bitcoin.

[LTEX]

three letters: NLG

[asdlolciterquit]

three letters: NLG

what is this?

[devphp]

But it's not the tipping point after which it grows exponentially, no. It's the tipping point where people start fleeing it en masse to other technologies and undervalued cryptos. After all, why would you buy Bitcoin if you can buy something cheaper, which does the same, or even better - if you can buy something cheaper which does the same and then a few other things. Bitcoin was the bootstrapping crypto, now is the time for other technologies to take its place. It won't happen overnight, but the process has begun.

uhm...i disagree.

How can you know that? have you seen some other altcoin with a huge rise of volume in the last 2 months? And this or these rise are comparable with the decrease of btc's volume?

Only if you can prove this, i can agree with you.

It will take a few years to unfold, not months. The first crypto 2.0 projects began earlier this year, and are not even 50% developed yet. The process will take years, by the end of 2015 the crypto scene will be completely different from what we saw a few months ago. You can already see the future if you follow those projects.

Why would you buy something else when it offers nothing at all? There's a reason why most alts are worth very little because there's just no demand for them. In fact, the only people who seem to want them are those who think they might get rich off them like they missed the chnace with bitcoin.

If you don't see the value, you don't see the value. If it offers you nothing, don't buy it. People see value in different things, you know, there is no unanimous opinion here. For example, I don't see much value in Bitcoins, I spend them away quickly to buy undervalued crypto technologies. Your vision of value is different. To each his own.

[YOLOMAN]

I think bitcoin will worth 1200$ within 1 month.

[TYDIRocks]

I don't see Bitcoin going away any time soon.

Why not?

if you know anything you know it is fundamentally flawed which has been all but admitted now by the lead developers.

How is it "fundamentally flawed"? Please enlighten me.

[Nullu]

I think bitcoin will worth 1200$ within 1 month.

I highly doubt it.

[waldocarter]

I don't see Bitcoin going away any time soon.

Why not?

if you know anything you know it is fundamentally flawed which has been all but admitted now by the lead developers.

How is it "fundamentally flawed"? Please enlighten me.

Bitcoin detractors will always state that and give 0 facts. Apparently the only non-flawed crypto is their own pump & dump scheme.

[devphp]

Price action gives strong signals. Bitcoin has stagnated, price in USD is not going anywhere. Bitcoiners invest in other technologies, in those that show at least some advancement and progress. 2014 is the year of Bitcoin peak as a technological break-through. Its price may still grow a bit or not, it doesn't matter. It has served its purpose and is quickly turning into a fertilizer for the soil of crypto technologies on which innovations will blossom.

R.I.P Bitcoin. You did good. You will be remembered.

[e1ghtSpace]

I think (more like hope) the price will rise. They always said lots of people used to say "bitcoin will never reach $10" and look where it is now.

[LeChatNoir]

Price action gives strong signals. Bitcoin has stagnated, price in USD is not going anywhere. Bitcoiners invest in other technologies, in those that show at least some advancement and progress. 2014 is the year of Bitcoin peak as a technological break-through. Its price may still grow a bit or not, it doesn't matter. It has served its purpose and is quickly turning into a fertilizer for the soil of crypto technologies on which innovations will blossom.

R.I.P Bitcoin. You did good. You will be remembered.

 

I couldn't have said it better.

R.I.P. Bitcoin

[kattekop]

In good times there's applause, in bad times there's despair.
Profit from despair!

[Coinoman]

Yes. Next step XXXcoin!

[knight22]

Agreed. I also think the tipping point has been reached or at least will be reached in the very near future. A lot of people will most certainly call me crazy, but Bitcoin is dead to me.

O RLY? 
https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions-excluding-popular?timespan=all&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address=

[Spoetnik]

But it's not the tipping point after which it grows exponentially, no. It's the tipping point where people start fleeing it en masse to other technologies and undervalued cryptos. After all, why would you buy Bitcoin if you can buy something cheaper, which does the same, or even better - if you can buy something cheaper which does the same and then a few other things. Bitcoin was the bootstrapping crypto, now is the time for other technologies to take its place. It won't happen overnight, but the process has begun.

... which does the same

your high on crack buddy  

i think your blind and i bet you suffer from bag holder syndrome.. bullshitting yourself in the hopes of getting rich one day.
i quoted you for a reason
your delusional..

[Amph]

you have a problem reading chart because bitcoin is rising

saying that other coins will surpass bitcoin, when their solely purpose is to make your bitcoin bag bigger, fucking funny

I think bitcoin will worth 1200$ within 1 month.

I highly doubt it.

you would have said the same before the 1000 pump

[JimminyCricket]

https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions

Yeah, its flat-lining

[knight22]

https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions

Yeah, its flat-lining

Nope, you just have the wrong time frame
https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions?timespan=all&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address=

[JimminyCricket]

https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions

Yeah, its flat-lining

Nope, you just have the wrong time frame
https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions?timespan=all&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address=

If the median breaks through 80,000 per day, then I'll concede you're right. It looks flat across February - August to me.

[sandpaper]

Sell me all your BTC then for $300 each. Thanks

[pork pie]

I don't see Bitcoin going away any time soon.

Why not?

if you know anything you know it is fundamentally flawed which has been all but admitted now by the lead developers.

They will probably eventually fix any really big problems. The first bitcoin wallets are now unusable because of today's wallet improvements, and I expect today's wallet will be unusable in another five years because the devs will gradually add new improvements.

[25hashcoin]

Not even an original troll post OP. smh.

[Zombier0]

All go For LTC

[rockethead]

https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions

Yeah, its flat-lining

Nope, you just have the wrong time frame
https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions?timespan=all&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address=

If the median breaks through 80,000 per day, then I'll concede you're right. It looks flat across February - August to me.

What can be belying about the number of transactions is that BTC may be the entry point from fiat into the crypto world. More transactions do not necessary translate to BTC being well supported. It can also mean that other cryptos may be the reason why BTC is being transacted so much.

What would be interesting is the value of BTC over time AND the number of transactions. If transactions increase but the value of BTC is trending downwards, then it is a signal of the beginning of the end of BTC and it may well be a protracted downtrend.

It is interesting to note that Crypto 2.0 is beginning to take shape with NXt being the first one off the block followed by NEM.

Crypto 2.0 is no more about a coin but more about an ecosystem in which the value of assets in the ecosystem may be more than the value of the coin itself. The purpose of the coin is used to fuel the transactions instead.

[LiberyOrDeath]

But it's not the tipping point after which it grows exponentially, no. It's the tipping point where people start fleeing it en masse to other technologies and undervalued cryptos. After all, why would you buy Bitcoin if you can buy something cheaper, which does the same, or even better - if you can buy something cheaper which does the same and then a few other things. Bitcoin was the bootstrapping crypto, now is the time for other technologies to take its place. It won't happen overnight, but the process has begun.

Has it not occurred to you yet that all the other coins have their value in BTC? Your statement is absurd.

Let me give you an example. There are hundreds of currencies in the world today. Most of them are worthless garbage, and one think they have in common that each currency has its value denominated in USD.

BTC is to altcoins, what USD is to fiat currencies. Capish?

[devphp]

Has it not occurred to you yet that all the other coins have their value in BTC? Your statement is absurd.

Let me give you an example. There are hundreds of currencies in the world today. Most of them are worthless garbage, and one think they have in common that each currency has its value denominated in USD.

BTC is to altcoins, what USD is to fiat currencies. Capish?

Your comparison is valid. But if you check currency reserves of central banks, you will notice that the share of USD in their reserves has been declining over the past few years. BRICS countries in particular have been striking deals to settle accounts in their own currencies without USD as a middleman. They are gradually moving away from USD. Nothing is static and nothing is set in stone, but some processes are gradual and may look as if they are not happening if you don't look at longer timeframes.

Same is taking place in crypto currencies. There are people who don't value BTC as much as other cryptos. The number of them is growing. But in crypto currencies everything moves faster. And if you don't invest your BTC, there is no US military to prop up its value for a long time.

[digitalindustry]

I don't see Bitcoin going away any time soon.

Why not?

if you know anything you know it is fundamentally flawed which has been all but admitted now by the lead developers.

How is it "fundamentally flawed"? Please enlighten me.

Bitcoin detractors will always state that and give 0 facts. Apparently the only non-flawed crypto is their own pump & dump scheme.

are you seriously this stupid ?

if you are here on this forum i'd have thought i wouldn't have had to spell that out for you like a retard?

no?

you don't think the fact that the mining monopoly can't be held on to, and that will cause a terminal collapse as the difficultly runs up, centralizing the PoW and then offering multiple 51% opportunities for large solo miners.

that's not a problem?

i suppose it's only the whole protocol that is broken? not a big deal right?

if you need more help i'm happy to draw pictures.


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=760879.0

[iGotSpots]

Still over 500% up since a year ago. Happy with that

[Falcon98]

I bought 0.2 btc on 505 dollar each because I thought it was going to rise again. Well, I've never been so wrong. So now Im just waiting it to go over 505 so it isn't a lose.

[devphp]

Still over 500% up since a year ago. Happy with that

That's not the point I am making here.

The best analogy I can think of is: Bitcoin is like UUCP, which was invented in 1978 and was actively used for 20 years, then when TCP/IP Internet got popular, UUCP usage dropped, but one of the last legacy UUCP services was shut down only in 2012, although very few people used it since 2000.

Bitcoin now is like UUCP in 1994 when PPP connection protocol was standardized. It can still grow, but not at its prior rate, and new emerging protocols and technologies are on the rise to make it obsolete within a few years. Or even faster than that, as the time it takes to develop technologies has contracted, as numerous examples of late show. One interesting project coming up: https://bitscan.com/articles/welcome-to-the-supernet

[notme]

I don't see Bitcoin going away any time soon.

Why not?

if you know anything you know it is fundamentally flawed which has been all but admitted now by the lead developers.

How is it "fundamentally flawed"? Please enlighten me.

Bitcoin detractors will always state that and give 0 facts. Apparently the only non-flawed crypto is their own pump & dump scheme.

are you seriously this stupid ?

if you are here on this forum i'd have thought i wouldn't have had to spell that out for you like a retard?

no?

you don't think the fact that the mining monopoly can't be held on to, and that will cause a terminal collapse as the difficultly runs up, centralizing the PoW and then offering multiple 51% opportunities for large solo miners.

that's not a problem?

i suppose it's only the whole protocol that is broken? not a big deal right?

if you need more help i'm happy to draw pictures.


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=760879.0

Ad hominems in leiu of evidence... Very convincing

[digitalindustry]

I don't see Bitcoin going away any time soon.

Why not?

if you know anything you know it is fundamentally flawed which has been all but admitted now by the lead developers.

How is it "fundamentally flawed"? Please enlighten me.

Bitcoin detractors will always state that and give 0 facts. Apparently the only non-flawed crypto is their own pump & dump scheme.

are you seriously this stupid ?

if you are here on this forum i'd have thought i wouldn't have had to spell that out for you like a retard?

no?

you don't think the fact that the mining monopoly can't be held on to, and that will cause a terminal collapse as the difficultly runs up, centralizing the PoW and then offering multiple 51% opportunities for large solo miners.

that's not a problem?

i suppose it's only the whole protocol that is broken? not a big deal right?

if you need more help i'm happy to draw pictures.


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=760879.0

Ad hominems in leiu of evidence... Very convincing

say what you like, just tell me..

you are buying here or not?

[TaunSew]

The people in the general discussion section often say the only reason people go into alternates is to get more BTC.  Nope.  I don't give a hoot about Bitcoin.  Yes I need Bitcoin to acquire other alternates but blame the developers of those coins for not accepting alternative payments.  I'm fine with paying in LTC, NXT, NEMstake, NODE, Redd or the other 5 coins I have.. do you take SuperNet tokens? 

[gustav]

agree on op.
If bitcoin collapses it is in most parts because of a flawed halving schedule. It should have been halving quicker or gradual decrease. This halvings are just clumsy and too long.
Uno is the solution to bitcoins inflation problemm and dumping miners.
IF bitcoin tanks and you missed the opportunity to shortsell it: dump your bitcoin in uno because that will rise a lot when people realise what the problem was with bitcoin (the inflation). Just a heads up. It is rising already. In case bitcoin tanks uno will be the alt to be in - other low inflation coins aswell. Sick of miners dumping.


Good thing is: uno rises in any case. If bitcoin goes up or down doesn't matter.

[TaunSew]

agree on op.
If bitcoin collapses it is in most parts because of a flawed halving schedule. It should have been halving quicker or gradual decrease. This halvings are just clumsy and too long.
Uno is the solution to bitcoins inflation problemm and dumping miners.
IF bitcoin tanks and you missed the opportunity to shortsell it: dump your bitcoin in uno because that will rise a lot when people realise what the problem was with bitcoin (the inflation). Just a heads up. It is rising already. In case bitcoin tanks uno will be the alt to be in - other low inflation coins aswell. Sick of miners dumping.

Uno?  This is the samething as that Uro?

I have twelve buckets of bat piss (Gauno Urea) in my living room, with open lids and the air is fulminating all over the place.  Who wants my Urea for Uro / Uno?   

[gustav]

agree on op.
If bitcoin collapses it is in most parts because of a flawed halving schedule. It should have been halving quicker or gradual decrease. This halvings are just clumsy and too long.
Uno is the solution to bitcoins inflation problemm and dumping miners.
IF bitcoin tanks and you missed the opportunity to shortsell it: dump your bitcoin in uno because that will rise a lot when people realise what the problem was with bitcoin (the inflation). Just a heads up. It is rising already. In case bitcoin tanks uno will be the alt to be in - other low inflation coins aswell. Sick of miners dumping.

Uno?  This is the samething as that Uro?

I have twelve buckets of bat piss (Gauno Urea) in my living room, with open lids and the air is fulminating all over the place.  Who wants my Urea for Uro / Uno?  

no, uno (unobtanium) got nothing to do with uro. Entirely different stories. Go here to check out: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=527500.0

uno is also way older than that strange ureacoin.

[digitalindustry]

The people in the general discussion section often say the only reason people go into alternates is to get more BTC.  Nope.  I don't give a hoot about Bitcoin.  Yes I need Bitcoin to acquire other alternates but blame the developers of those coins for not accepting alternative payments.  I'm fine with paying in LTC, NXT, NEMstake, NODE, Redd or the other 5 coins I have.. do you take SuperNet tokens?  

for a seemingly balanced guy you hold a terrible bunch of crypto in my opinion, but then people would say I'm not a very balanced individual either.

I can guarantee most core Quark investors see Bitcoin like a more volatile "paypal" it's access to Quark and other crypto.

[TaunSew]

The people in the general discussion section often say the only reason people go into alternates is to get more BTC.  Nope.  I don't give a hoot about Bitcoin.  Yes I need Bitcoin to acquire other alternates but blame the developers of those coins for not accepting alternative payments.  I'm fine with paying in LTC, NXT, NEMstake, NODE, Redd or the other 5 coins I have.. do you take SuperNet tokens? 

for a seemingly balanced guy you hold a terrible bunch of crypto in my opinion, but then people would say I'm not a very balanced individual either.

Would it cease being terrible if I bought Quark?    

[evergrow]

The people in the general discussion section often say the only reason people go into alternates is to get more BTC.  Nope.  I don't give a hoot about Bitcoin.  Yes I need Bitcoin to acquire other alternates but blame the developers of those coins for not accepting alternative payments.  I'm fine with paying in LTC, NXT, NEMstake, NODE, Redd or the other 5 coins I have.. do you take SuperNet tokens?  

for a seemingly balanced guy you hold a terrible bunch of crypto in my opinion, but then people would say I'm not a very balanced individual either.

I can guarantee most core Quark investors see Bitcoin like a more volatile "paypal" it's access to Quark and other crypto.

You're a special kind of guy Kolin, a convicted scammer, that is.  

People must be warned of guys like you.  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=781954.0

[digitalindustry]

The people in the general discussion section often say the only reason people go into alternates is to get more BTC.  Nope.  I don't give a hoot about Bitcoin.  Yes I need Bitcoin to acquire other alternates but blame the developers of those coins for not accepting alternative payments.  I'm fine with paying in LTC, NXT, NEMstake, NODE, Redd or the other 5 coins I have.. do you take SuperNet tokens? 

for a seemingly balanced guy you hold a terrible bunch of crypto in my opinion, but then people would say I'm not a very balanced individual either.

Would it cease being terrible if I bought Quark?    

nope you'd need to stop holding the bunch of stuff that will lose long term I guess?

I didn't say you were terrible, you poor thing.

[evergrow]

nope you'd need to stop holding the bunch of stuff that will lose long term I guess?

I didn't say you were terrible, you poor thing.

Seriously, who in their right mind would buy a terrible shitcoin like Quark which was pumped+dumped back months ago and is basically dead?

[digitalindustry]

The people in the general discussion section often say the only reason people go into alternates is to get more BTC.  Nope.  I don't give a hoot about Bitcoin.  Yes I need Bitcoin to acquire other alternates but blame the developers of those coins for not accepting alternative payments.  I'm fine with paying in LTC, NXT, NEMstake, NODE, Redd or the other 5 coins I have.. do you take SuperNet tokens?  

for a seemingly balanced guy you hold a terrible bunch of crypto in my opinion, but then people would say I'm not a very balanced individual either.

I can guarantee most core Quark investors see Bitcoin like a more volatile "paypal" it's access to Quark and other crypto.

You're a special kind of guy Kolin, a convicted scammer, that is.  

People should be warned of ya.  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=781954.0

look at you go. hot damn !

ya need a link there, you didn't link it.

[evergrow]

ya need a link there, you didn't link it.

Please leave Kolin, I really really dislike scammers like you. Please just go away, thanks.

[digitalindustry]

nope you'd need to stop holding the bunch of stuff that will lose long term I guess?

I didn't say you were terrible, you poor thing.

Seriously, who in their right mind would buy a terrible shitcoin like Quark which was pumped+dumped back months ago and is basically dead?

wow is tails and tor really wrecking your keyboard so much?

you need to slow down, calm down, that van is not following you ok.  

[evergrow]

nope you'd need to stop holding the bunch of stuff that will lose long term I guess?

I didn't say you were terrible, you poor thing.

Seriously, who in their right mind would buy a terrible shitcoin like Quark which was pumped+dumped back months ago and is basically dead?

wow is tails and tor really wrecking your keyboard so much?

you need to slow down, calm down, that van is not following you ok.  

I can't believe you're still promoting the shitcoin under your scammer nick. If you were smart you would have opened a new account, but then again you most likely wouldn't be able to hide your--let me be polite-- "special" writing style.  Man I don't know if you're a nice guy IRL but here in the virtual world I have no respect for you. What you tried is truly unacceptable and goes to show you just desperately want to use folks to buy in your Quarkcoin to dump it off on us. I don't even know how you can still be posting here without feeling weird on your own.

[digitalindustry]

ya need a link there, you didn't link it.

Please leave Kolin, I really really dislike scammers like you. Please just go away, thanks.

seeing you ask so nicely i'm going to grant you this wish, but only because i like you ok.

i'm going to spare you the terror and let you spam this forum to your hearts content with cleverly placed useless statements about your no doubt revolutionary new crypto currency.  

[evergrow]

i'm going to spare you the terror and let you spam this forum to your hearts content with cleverly placed useless statements about your no doubt revolutionary new crypto currency.  

I'm extremely skeptic when it comes to cryptocurrency, in fact I don't think it has a future beyond the small nerdy scene it is today. You're judging the wrong one here.

[evergrow]

Kolin digitalindustry if you truly believe Quark has a bright future don't hesitate to post your arguments here
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=798960.0

[digitalindustry]

nope you'd need to stop holding the bunch of stuff that will lose long term I guess?

I didn't say you were terrible, you poor thing.

Seriously, who in their right mind would buy a terrible shitcoin like Quark which was pumped+dumped back months ago and is basically dead?

wow is tails and tor really wrecking your keyboard so much?

you need to slow down, calm down, that van is not following you ok.  

I can't believe you're still promoting the shitcoin under your scammer nick. If you were smart you would have opened a new account, but then again you most likely wouldn't be able to hide your--let me be polite-- "special" writing style.  Man I don't know if you're a nice guy IRL but here in the virtual world I have no respect for you. What you tried is truly unacceptable and goes to show you just desperately want to use folks to buy in your Quarkcoin to dump it off on us. I don't even know how you can still be posting here without feeling weird on your own.

your opinion matters to me greatly so i'm concerned you feel this way, Quark seems to bounce and go higher when Bitcoin falls as its monopoly gets taken over, does this specifically make you sad?

what makes you sad, lets look at that and try to avoid it.

you matter to me.

[digitalindustry]

i'm going to spare you the terror and let you spam this forum to your hearts content with cleverly placed useless statements about your no doubt revolutionary new crypto currency.  

I'm extremely skeptic when it comes to cryptocurrency, in fact I don't think it has a future beyond the small nerdy scene it is today. You're judging the wrong one here.

yeah you are just another nobody paid to troll a forum, wow, that's very unusual, you are really breaking ground here, the world will remember you, you are important.

oh wait, no you should have taken the trolley job, that produces something, it produces a more effective retail environment by the organization of the logistical means of micro delivery systems.

(you can use that for your resume if you like)

{I'm always here to help}

[evergrow]

i'm going to spare you the terror and let you spam this forum to your hearts content with cleverly placed useless statements about your no doubt revolutionary new crypto currency.  

I'm extremely skeptic when it comes to cryptocurrency, in fact I don't think it has a future beyond the small nerdy scene it is today. You're judging the wrong one here.

yeah you are just another nobody paid to troll a forum, wow, that's very unusual, you are really breaking ground here, the world will remember you, you are important.

Pretty much everything you post is wrong, bravo Kolin!

you matter to me.

Sorry, you(that is your account and its' activity) don't matter to me. I just dislike scammers promoting shitty coins to unload their balance. You see? I'm hitting ignore now, I think this will help.

[Nxtblg]

i'm going to spare you the terror and let you spam this forum to your hearts content with cleverly placed useless statements about your no doubt revolutionary new crypto currency.  

I'm extremely skeptic when it comes to cryptocurrency, in fact I don't think it has a future beyond the small nerdy scene it is today. You're judging the wrong one here.

I have to disagree, but in a way that won't make anyone here (including myself) feel all that good.

Cryptocurrency is steadily moving towards mainstreamization. In one sense, that's great - but in another sense, it's tragic. When you meet the mainstream, you also meet the demands of the mainstream - including the political demands of the mainstream. That's why I'm "inured" - I chose this word deliberately - to the cryptocurrency sector becoming fully regulated.

We all believe in decentralization and peer-to-peer around here (I hope!), but the plain fact is that Joe Mainstream doesn't give a damn about either. If anything, he'll prefer centralized if the centralization says "Guarantee!" to him. Even the Tea-Party-type "Constitutional Conservatives" that are retired or close to retirement change their words in a hurry if some elected politician talks about shaving Social Security benefits by as little as 2%. Then, the minimal-government words get shelved and out come the pictures of cat food. Laugh if you must, but a political realist will merely take that 180-degree'er as simply data.

Sadly, I have to confess that crypto's mainstreamization will maneuver us into the position occupied by hard-core metalheads in the 1980s who sneered at the (much more popular) "hair" bands for being less than true to metal. But if we're lucky, Joe Mainstream will pay lip service to peer-to-peer and decentralization. His (perhaps unborn at present) kids will likely take both a little more seriously...   

[Dafar]

I think bitcoin will worth 1200$ within 1 month.

You got 3 days or you will be banned for shitty advice

[devphp]

Price of Bitcoin doesn't matter. What matters is how large a share of the new crypto 2.0 economy you can buy with your Bitcoins.

[MikeLalondeSudbury]

I remember when BTC was approximately $1400 and Litecoin was up to $40.00 on BTC-E.

Now they have roughly 1/3 the number of traders they used to, and BTC is under $500, LTC is under $5.00

I agree, the tipping point's been reached.

[e-coinomist]

Sell me all your BTC then for $300 each. Thanks

I sold higher! Bad offer. Well perhaps for next weeks it will turn into a good offer.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

The buy side on BTC-e is flat as a pancake. The sells are huge. Everybody wants out. Does everybody know something I don't?

[devphp]

The buy side on BTC-e is flat as a pancake. The sells are huge. Everybody wants out. Does everybody know something I don't?

Yes, read the OP. The sells have figured Bitcoin is not going anywhere, but haven't figured out yet they need to exit from Bitcoin into crypto 2.0 economy, not park their cash in fiat.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

The buy side on BTC-e is flat as a pancake. The sells are huge. Everybody wants out. Does everybody know something I don't?

Yes, read the OP. The sells have figured Bitcoin is not going anywhere, but haven't figured out yet they need to exit from Bitcoin into crypto 2.0 economy, not park their cash in fiat.

k

[nomoreheroes7]

The buy side on BTC-e is flat as a pancake. The sells are huge. Everybody wants out. Does everybody know something I don't?

Yes, read the OP. The sells have figured Bitcoin is not going anywhere, but haven't figured out yet they need to exit from Bitcoin into crypto 2.0 economy, not park their cash in fiat.

Honestly from the looks of it, devphp is completely correct. Bitcoin is becoming an aging dinosaur, and people (especially the Chinese -- just look at the CNY volumes from BTC flowing to the alts!) are starting to realize this.

[davidsocom]

Agreed. I also think the tipping point has been reached or at least will be reached in the very near future. A lot of people will most certainly call me crazy, but Bitcoin is dead to me.

I said that quite a while ago when Bitcoin was near high in November last year and I was ridiculed and laughed at by some of these people in a meetup. Perhaps their minds are too simple.

Bitcoin will see its last days. Maybe not tomorrow, but definitely before the end of the decade. The irony is, everyone is talking about bitcoin! We have banks, we have businesses, we have giant companies wanting to jump in the bandwagon and we have miners putting in 10s of millions of serious money into mining these coins. And no one can see the obvious storm that is looming ahead. Are they blind?

I fully agree!
Bitcoin will die one day or another and it will be replaced by some potential alternates.


Reasons:

newer technology
more secure
better distribution
environment-friendly


 

[devphp]

[davidsocom]

Poor cat! 

[turncoat_ewok]

No other crypto coin has spread so big as bitcoin.It's true that others are cheap,but what will you do with it if you can't spend it properly.

[Spoetnik]

The buy side on BTC-e is flat as a pancake. The sells are huge. Everybody wants out. Does everybody know something I don't?

Yes, read the OP. The sells have figured Bitcoin is not going anywhere, but haven't figured out yet they need to exit from Bitcoin into crypto 2.0 economy, not park their cash in fiat.

Honestly from the looks of it, devphp is completely correct. Bitcoin is becoming an aging dinosaur, and people (especially the Chinese -- just look at the CNY volumes from BTC flowing to the alts!) are starting to realize this.

That is stupid and it's just some of you kids with ADD out there complain about coins "being boring" which always make me laugh my balls off LOL
If you don't have a Fischer Price UI with flashing colors and bright lights the Kiddiots get bored and wander off  
Fuck i hate kids LOL

edit:
by the way i just looked at the same time as wisdom was showing a big drop to $360 guys 

[devphp]

No other crypto coin has spread so big as bitcoin.It's true that others are cheap,but what will you do with it if you can't spend it properly.

The point is to find unique use cases for crypto currency. There is nothing unique you can buy with Bitcoin that you can't buy with fiat. That's exactly the reason why adoption is not happening fast enough to overcome selling pressure from miners and early adopters.

Crypto 2.0 technologies are designed to tackle the issue of shortage of unique use cases. In particular, asset exchanges allow to crowdfund interesting projects that cannot be funded via other channels, which is set to drive demand for crypto 2.0 currencies.

[LiberyOrDeath]

No other crypto coin has spread so big as bitcoin.It's true that others are cheap,but what will you do with it if you can't spend it properly.

The point is to find unique use cases for crypto currency. There is nothing unique you can buy with Bitcoin that you can't buy with fiat. That's exactly the reason why adoption is not happening fast enough to overcome selling pressure from miners and early adopters.

Crypto 2.0 technologies are designed to tackle the issue of shortage of unique use cases. In particular, asset exchanges allow to crowdfund interesting projects that cannot be funded via other channels, which is set to drive demand for crypto 2.0 currencies.

Excellent post. I know that many BTC users are in denial - but you are stating the facts here - what pushed bitcoin in the early years was the underground economy - primarily Silkroad. Now that is all gone - and the darkweb economy is not even a few % of the BTC market capital. BTC needs new avenues to grow - and we are stuck now at this point. The honey moon period is over, BTC is mainstream as it gets and it has been so for the last 12-18 months, so those who are expecting to see $10 K per Bitcoin or $50 K per bitcoin in the next year or two - you better get your facts straight. This will happen but it might take decades to reach these prices. Hopefully less than that but at this point we are seeing a price consolidation and I think 300-500 USD per BTC is a reality and will be so for the next couple of years.

[Palmdetroit]

I think there is some issues with the mining aspects of BTC but another issue could be those moving into USD ,.. it may be strong here for a bit....

[Spoetnik]

I think there is some issues with the mining aspects of BTC but another issue could be those moving into USD ,.. it may be strong here for a bit....

what are you saying that about ? BTC price dropping and the correlation to price of ALT's ?

pre-OCT 2013 i use to see BTC drop and ALT's rise etc but after the big flood of noobs and BTC popularity rose it seems to be the opposite i think.. strange.
and i say that as just a straight forward observation on prices at exchanges.

i have a bookmark for example for a BTC/USD exchange rate calculator saved from when Bitcoin was OMG at $99 dollars liek omg !! LOL

[Spoetnik]

$325

someone is trying hard to crash the price or is mega desperate to get cash fast for some reason..

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

$325

someone is trying hard to crash the price or is mega desperate to get cash fast for some reason..

Dude have we considered the possibility that sovereign nations are even mining and dumping at this point??

[Patek]

$325

someone is trying hard to crash the price or is mega desperate to get cash fast for some reason..

Dude have we considered the possibility that sovereign nations are even mining and dumping at this point??

that too is actually a risk. there is no reason why they couldnt.. god knows who the "unknown" miners are..

Okay, I see your point, but WHY would they be doing such a thing? As many mentioned before, there is a line of cryptos which could replace bitcoin for whatever purpose those goverments are trying to shut it down.

[Spoetnik]

$315 now at BTC-e WOW !

someone is working hard at tanking the price..

a normal person woudl just wait a bit to dump some more so get more cash for selling right ?
but what i see is someone who wants to dump so much so fast he can't wait.. and needs the cash NOW !
and more interestingly maybe this person knows that they plan to dump so much Bitcoin that
the only sensible thing to do is to keep dumping ?

what will be interesting is WHAT EFFECTS ON ALTCOINS THIS WILL HAVE !

i use two gambling faucets frequently one for Doge and one for BTC run by the same guy.
and part of the reason i like to use them is it give me an indicator hourly how the price of them are doing market wise..
the more the price drops the more the faucets pay out..
so
i have been coming back and waiting for the drop in Doge to catch on and it's not dropped that much
not compared to how much BTC has been dropping..
I think the dropping BTC price is catching people by surprise and more and more alt's like Doge will be dropping a lot and soon !
a guess of sorts ..don't sell your alt's based off what i said though ..i'm just speculating here

i have not sold any of my alt coins or my BTC at all !
i plan on sitting firmly waiting it all out..

[Spoetnik]

WOW $308.1

dumpidity dump !

and still Doge has has been holding fairly well ..odd i think :/

i am expecting to see a surge in the lowest pay out for Doge on that gambling faucet i mentioned
couple months ago the average was about 15 coins and now almost 7 coins..
and the BTC pay out has gone up to 600 sat's 

here is the two links to the site i go to if you all wanna see what i mean ?

Freedoge.co.in
Freebitco.in

free coins every hour no gimmick !

[bobbyb]

I am betting on PPC.
Its an improved version of Bitcoin.
I hope that PoS will stop this stupid hashrate race.

[bobbyb]

I am betting on PPC.
Its a improved version of Bitcoin.
I hope that PoS will stop this stupid hashrate race.

that statement makes no sense..? pos doesnt have a hashrate? :/

Proof of stake doesnt rely on hashrate, it relies on your wallet balance.
You dont need powerfull asics to solve a PoS block, a normal computer fully sufficient.

Also:
A PPC PoW hashrate race is absurd, because the PPC PoW reward decreases with the increase of PoW difficulty.

[bobbyb]

ppc is probably the worst of the lot.

Why?

[bobbyb]

ppc is probably the worst of the lot.

Why?

it uses a different pos algorithm to that of the likes of nxt, which is also different to that of the likes of blackcoin. in peercoin, as far as i know they use checkpoints created by developers which is effectively the devs enforcing nodes to only download the version of the blockchain that is deemed to be "the correct chain". by rights, in a decentralized system it should be the nodes that decide, without human intervention of any kind, which chain is the correct one through consensus rather than devs enforcing this with checkpoints. i admit i havnt researched peercoin enough so i may be wrong on certain points but that is my understanding of peercoin however that is enough information for me to know that ppc will never surpass bitcoin. other pos systems dont use this version of pos and also dont have these types of checkpoints. they do have checkpoints(some only temporarily) but they are not centrally controlled as is the case with peercoin.

also a slightly better version of bitcoin would never be enough to supplant bitcoin. it needs to be vastly improved upon before it will be surpassed and overcome bitcoins (more powerful than many think) network effect.

if i am wrong, please supply some form of explanation as to how i am wrong. if i am id be interested to read how it actually works, its been a long time since i read up on it so perhaps things could have changed since then.

I dont trust nxt.
The centralised checkpoints in PPC are an issue, I fully agree with that, but as far I know, Sunny King is working on an other solution.
I like PPC because:
-Its the first PoS implementation, the devs knew what they are doing
-There was no IPO, the coins were PoW mined (they still are)
-This is a long therm project
-Low PoS inflation of 1%
-I think that Sunny King is extremely stilled/smart

[bobbyb]

ppc is probably the worst of the lot.

Why?

it uses a different pos algorithm to that of the likes of nxt, which is also different to that of the likes of blackcoin. in peercoin, as far as i know they use checkpoints created by developers which is effectively the devs enforcing nodes to only download the version of the blockchain that is deemed to be "the correct chain". by rights, in a decentralized system it should be the nodes that decide, without human intervention of any kind, which chain is the correct one through consensus rather than devs enforcing this with checkpoints. i admit i havnt researched peercoin enough so i may be wrong on certain points but that is my understanding of peercoin however that is enough information for me to know that ppc will never surpass bitcoin. other pos systems dont use this version of pos and also dont have these types of checkpoints. they do have checkpoints(some only temporarily) but they are not centrally controlled as is the case with peercoin.

also a slightly better version of bitcoin would never be enough to supplant bitcoin. it needs to be vastly improved upon before it will be surpassed and overcome bitcoins (more powerful than many think) network effect.

if i am wrong, please supply some form of explanation as to how i am wrong. if i am id be interested to read how it actually works, its been a long time since i read up on it so perhaps things could have changed since then.

I dont trust nxt.
The centralised checkpoints in PPC are an issue, I fully agree with that, but as far I know, Sunny King is working on an other solution.
I like PPC because:
-Its the first PoS implementation, the devs knew what they are doing
-There was no IPO, the coins were PoW mined (they still are)
-This is a long therm project
-Low PoS inflation of 1%
-I think that Sunny King is extremely stilled/smart

why dont you trust nxt? and there is nothing illegitimate about an ipo, its necessary for distribution seeing as pure pos coins are required to release all coins from the genisis block. the better method is to do what nem did and it has worked out fantastically.

they have been working on a solution to the issue for over a year correct? doesnt seem like they are getting very far.

i dont doubt their abilities. but their are certainly other very intelligent people in the pos space. its unwise to over look any crypto other than straight clones. hence why i research every new, modified and written from scratch coin i can find and then judge them against the most likely one to overtake bitcoin. its worked out seriously profitable so far so its obviously a good method of finding investments.

I dindt really done any research on NXT. I only know, that it is JAVA based and fully PoS.
I dont like fully premined PoS coins, because you cant really tell what happens to the coins.
With initial PoW mining you can check how every single coin has been created.
I of course know, that every NXT was mined with the genesis block, but the inital distribution is kinda untrustworthy (for me).
Also: What happens with the BTC that the NXT developer has gotten from the IPO?

[bobbyb]

I have recently read something about a capt coin with inital distribution through solving captchas (I would call it proof of human).
I think that this is a good idea, but I dont trust it.
The best way for the inital distribution of the coins is for me the proof of human.
The problem is, how to make it fully trustworthy?

The initial distribution should also be a long term process and not like 2 months or something.

[BDSM-Fetish]

It may have reached a tipping point, and a downward one, but I don't think people will move en masse to other coins.

The market will shrink, maybe, but BTC won't be overtaken.

The 1300 dollars it hit was masterminded by Gox and other exchanges.

Did anyone watch it pump? It was so clear that the price was being pushed up.

I think a lot of people got out of bitcoin and altcoins altogether.

Obviously BDSM and Fetish are two coins that will offer real benefits to humanity, so I am not worried  .... after the opening of our adult product emporium.

 

[Spoetnik]

$325

someone is trying hard to crash the price or is mega desperate to get cash fast for some reason..

Dude have we considered the possibility that sovereign nations are even mining and dumping at this point??

that too is actually a risk. there is no reason why they couldnt.. god knows who the "unknown" miners are..

Okay, I see your point, but WHY would they be doing such a thing? As many mentioned before, there is a line of cryptos which could replace bitcoin for whatever purpose those goverments are trying to shut it down.

perhaps they think if bitcoin is dumped into oblivion all the way down to the point that even the biggest of miners cant afford to mine it would essentially break bitcoin.. image if all the small guys drop out on the way down leaving say 5 mega miners, then btc sees the biggest dump off all collapsing from the hundreds to double or single digits forcing all the last 5 to shut up shop... difficulty would be left way to high for anyone to mine preventing any conformations (im guessing) for days?

this would leave behind only the "unknown entity" with complete control over the network. one entity that could turn on and off raising the difficulty and then crashing it again. while also keeping the price of bitcoin so unprofitable that no one in their right mind would try to mine or buy it.

a malicious entity does not need to buy enough mining power to get 51%. they only need enough to continuously suppress the price and push it down gradually forcing out other miners, getting back some of the money invested and also raising their percentage of hashing power as other miners drop out. it would be a slow process and costly but not even close to impossible.

 for someone with millions with a seriously high vested interest in the old money status quo it would probably be the best way to go about destroying bitcoin. if you fight a decentralized network you may harm it but it will come back stronger in one form or another. but if you crush it with out revealing yourself as a malicious entity and crush every little hope of the people they will not be so keen to fight back a second time. and once an idea fails the first time it is much harder for it to catch on a second time thus also suppressing the hopes of a reincarnation in another form.

not only that.. but with some(wouldnt take much) of the bitcoins they mine they could slowly acquire massive amounts of all the coins they cant do that to (PoS) and then just royal fuck with their respective markets for years to come as their little play toy. no investor in their right mind would buy crypto ever again. isnt it strange how many altcoins are actually not crashing (against bitcoin) while bitcoin plummets... not the norm right? i say fuck with their markets because it would be far cheaper than acquiring 50% in a PoS system - not impossible - but way too expensive an option when all you want to do is prevent adoption.

im not saying this is whats happening.. but it is certainly a possibility. dont underestimate the ones pulling the strings behind the current financial system. governments learnt their lesson about decentralised networks when file sharing effectively took down the music and film industry. why would they let a threat grow to the point that it could actually challenge them. if i were them i would invest the "pennies" to protect the pounds. and it would take fewer pennies now than in 5 years time.

now tell me bitcoin is not flawed. just food for thought.

i am no expert on how coins work really technically and i have only my observations over time to go on.
many guys know Bitcoin better than i do that is for sure..
but your comment sounds reasonable and very plausible to my ears.
i just wonder if someone woudl be motivated to get involved in that though.. and who of course right ?
as solid as that sounds there woudl still be an element of failure in trying to attack.
in hindsight it may sound and look easy but imagine sitting at the drawing board planning an attack
and then thinking hmmm.. ok well we need a lot of this and that and MONEY to do it.. aka: risk ..and lots of it !

i dunno though i wouldn't get involved in an attack that worked like that i woudl think it's a bit risky i think
but that is just me and i am really lazy LOL

i also think Bitcoin if possible to manipulate may be of more use as a vehicle to MAKE money rather than destroy it.

[Spoetnik]

I have recently read something about a capt coin with inital distribution through solving captchas (I would call it proof of human).
I think that this is a good idea, but I dont trust it.
The best way for the inital distribution of the coins is for me the proof of human.
The problem is, how to make it fully trustworthy?

The initial distribution should also be a long term process and not like 2 months or something.

NO !

This is wrong !

Captcha's are the worst thing that happened on the internet ever LOL
god i hate those damn things with a passion.. i want the creators of re-Captcha to be shot and pissed on
i can't believe some sick bastard would make a coin out of that shit WTF ?

Spoetnik Trivia Time:
- re-Captcha's we're bought by Google for character recognition studies.
when you complete a re-captcha you are working for Google improving their technology behind the scenes their working on.

- Captcha's and re-Captcha's are NOT the same thing.

- Cheats / Shortcuts to re-Captcha's are available.
You only have to type in one of the two words.
Often only part of a word is needed etc ..Google it for more info

[zvs]

The turning point, huh?

why, you silly goose, it isnt even close to $120 yet

my head hurts

[devphp]

The turning point, huh?

why, you silly goose, it isnt even close to $120 yet

my head hurts

Can you explain to this silly goose here what is so special about $120, smarty goose please? )

[RedZeppelin]

Well the current drop in BTC price might be healthy because miners in many places will turn of their hardware cause they generate a loss while running..
Last weeks free fall i guess it is partially related to the Chinese golden week to my knowledge they do not have paid vacations, the Chinese new year is another
time when BTC is highly likely to drop.

[RedZeppelin]

Well the current drop in BTC price might be healthy because miners in many places will turn of their hardware cause they generate a loss while running..
Last weeks free fall i guess it is partially related to the Chinese golden week to my knowledge they do not have paid vacations, the Chinese new year is another
time when BTC is highly likely to drop.

it's not good for bitcoin what so ever.. See my theory above and what effect a sustained period of downwards trending can have on mining. Essentially it forces further centralisation with only the bigger miners able to keep the shop open. Hold the price down long enough and you get a monopoly in the industry.

You need to stop living in 2013, mining wont equal guaranteed profit in the future, mining will be a risk investment just like buying stocks or funds.

[Man-aqua]

$325

someone is trying hard to crash the price or is mega desperate to get cash fast for some reason..

Dude have we considered the possibility that sovereign nations are even mining and dumping at this point??

that too is actually a risk. there is no reason why they couldnt.. god knows who the "unknown" miners are..

Okay, I see your point, but WHY would they be doing such a thing? As many mentioned before, there is a line of cryptos which could replace bitcoin for whatever purpose those goverments are trying to shut it down.

perhaps they think if bitcoin is dumped into oblivion all the way down to the point that even the biggest of miners cant afford to mine it would essentially break bitcoin.. image if all the small guys drop out on the way down leaving say 5 mega miners, then btc sees the biggest dump off all collapsing from the hundreds to double or single digits forcing all the last 5 to shut up shop... difficulty would be left way to high for anyone to mine preventing any conformations (im guessing) for days?

this would leave behind only the "unknown entity" with complete control over the network. one entity that could turn on and off raising the difficulty and then crashing it again. while also keeping the price of bitcoin so unprofitable that no one in their right mind would try to mine or buy it.

a malicious entity does not need to buy enough mining power to get 51%. they only need enough to continuously suppress the price and push it down gradually forcing out other miners, getting back some of the money invested and also raising their percentage of hashing power as other miners drop out. it would be a slow process and costly but not even close to impossible.

 for someone with millions with a seriously high vested interest in the old money status quo it would probably be the best way to go about destroying bitcoin. if you fight a decentralized network you may harm it but it will come back stronger in one form or another. but if you crush it with out revealing yourself as a malicious entity and crush every little hope of the people they will not be so keen to fight back a second time. and once an idea fails the first time it is much harder for it to catch on a second time thus also suppressing the hopes of a reincarnation in another form.

not only that.. but with some(wouldnt take much) of the bitcoins they mine they could slowly acquire massive amounts of all the coins they cant do that to (PoS) and then just royal fuck with their respective markets for years to come as their little play toy. no investor in their right mind would buy crypto ever again. isnt it strange how many altcoins are actually not crashing (against bitcoin) while bitcoin plummets... not the norm right? i say fuck with their markets because it would be far cheaper than acquiring 50% in a PoS system - not impossible - but way too expensive an option when all you want to do is prevent adoption.

im not saying this is whats happening.. but it is certainly a possibility. dont underestimate the ones pulling the strings behind the current financial system. governments learnt their lesson about decentralised networks when file sharing effectively took down the music and film industry. why would they let a threat grow to the point that it could actually challenge them. if i were them i would invest the "pennies" to protect the pounds. and it would take fewer pennies now than in 5 years time.

now tell me bitcoin is not flawed. just food for thought.

i am no expert on how coins work really technically and i have only my observations over time to go on.
many guys know Bitcoin better than i do that is for sure..
but your comment sounds reasonable and very plausible to my ears.
i just wonder if someone woudl be motivated to get involved in that though.. and who of course right ?
as solid as that sounds there woudl still be an element of failure in trying to attack.
in hindsight it may sound and look easy but imagine sitting at the drawing board planning an attack
and then thinking hmmm.. ok well we need a lot of this and that and MONEY to do it.. aka: risk ..and lots of it !

i dunno though i wouldn't get involved in an attack that worked like that i woudl think it's a bit risky i think
but that is just me and i am really lazy LOL

i also think Bitcoin if possible to manipulate may be of more use as a vehicle to MAKE money rather than destroy it.

for a billionaire who would lose his billions If the fiat system collapses entirely and crypto took over year's down the line I'm sure it would be a risk he wouor be willing to take. An investment of a few million to protect his billions sounds like a good deal to me. Crush the threat before it gets to big and. And when it's small enough to handle. I don't think it's all that mad.. Who's to say this guy didn't buy up thousands of btc two or three years ago "just incase" he needs to do this? Using them
To offset losses. I've known this is possible for a long tome but some are convinced that btc is flawless. It's not. There are new systems coming out that don't suffer from these flaw. Imo bitcoin will die whether it's forced to happen earlier than it should or naturally, it is goin to be superseded. And those who understand this are far from scared and own the handful of coins that have the solution and enough potential to out do bitcoin. And it's a very small handful.. And most likely don't own any bitcoin like myself.

I like to think of it like btc is bebo and these other 2 are Facebook. If you know the story behind bebo youl understand the reference

We all should hope that is the way it goes and not the end of everything we know when bitcoin is about to die.
This situation right now could lead to a tremendous change of the power and value of bitcoin and any altcoin.

[blade87]

If BTC collapses, why would anyone buy another crypto? It would just automatically be labeled a scam "just like BTC was".

[devphp]

If BTC collapses, why would anyone buy another crypto? It would just automatically be labeled a scam "just like BTC was".

Many people think BTC is scam right now, this doesn't stop you from buying it, does it? The key is to make a crypto that provides unique use cases and doesn't have the flaws that BTC has. One of the flaws of BTC and most other PoW cryptos is fiat leak due to mining expenditures, which makes this prolonged and sharp price decline possible.

[Spoetnik]

i agree if Bitcoin fails they will see a black-eye on crypto's and look to Paypal, Apple, Microsoft etc etc
not some guy who hides here using 12 accounts using Github to clone anon gimmick coins LOL

and the fiat system collapses entirely ?
nope.. not happening !
it's needed.. and they will prop it up no matter what such as bail outs before.

you guys seem to think that that paying like $99 dollars a month to download and use a blockchain etc etc
is going to be good for Grandma and Grandpa or people who simply don't trust digital bullshit etc etc tec etc
Home Depot CC# record hacks.. Gmail accounts record hacks.. The Cloud "Fappening" hacks and that was just the last few weeks LOL
you guys need to get it through your thick skulls.. fiat is not going anywhere /end of story
maybe in a 100 hundred years or something..

and she is STILL sinking i am surprised usually the dumping has died down by now right ?
i see it dropped below $300 now :/
BTC-e yet again..

[robinwilliams]

i agree if Bitcoin fails they will see a black-eye on crypto's and look to Paypal, Apple, Microsoft etc etc
not some guy who hides here using 12 accounts using Github to clone anon gimmick coins LOL

and the fiat system collapses entirely ?
nope.. not happening !
it's needed.. and they will prop it up no matter what such as bail outs before.

you guys seem to think that that paying like $99 dollars a month to download and use a blockchain etc etc
is going to be good for Grandma and Grandpa or people who simply don't trust digital bullshit etc etc tec etc
Home Depot CC# record hacks.. Gmail accounts record hacks.. The Cloud "Fappening" hacks and that was just the last few weeks LOL
you guys need to get it through your thick skulls.. fiat is not going anywhere /end of story
maybe in a 100 hundred years or something..

and she is STILL sinking i am surprised usually the dumping has died down by now right ?
i see it dropped below $300 now :/
BTC-e yet again..

i think btc-e is where all the darkwhales / early adopters hide out.  they probably didn't want to sell their wealth for fiat due to wanting to remain anonymous so they trade into fiat when they get scared (never withdraw) and i think there are more darkwhales left (like bcx) than people think and they got in earlier than most everybody else so they drive the price lower since their buy points were lower ($10 - $85)

pimps, early miners, high end prostitutes, drug dealers etc etc use btc-e

[Spoetnik]

ya i did all my BTC trading on BTC-e myself too only..

and wow she is still in heavy dump mode.. Bitcoin now at = $285 i see holy shit !
https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/btce/btcusd

funny though the impact on ALT's has not been very much i think *yet

like my favorite coin JackpotCoin is actually up in value LOL
so do you all think BTC dropping will make ALT's go Down or UP ?
i am sort of torn between the two.. i have seen long periods of time where it seemed to me like both had happened.
like Pre-NOV 2013 when BTC went down i think ALT's went up and the opposite after the DEC 2013.. so i dunno what the hell is going on i am clueless

and has anyone heard any solid info on what is causing it ?
usually Coindesk will post something about big dumping but i have not seen a word form them yet.. they seem to be ignoring what is going on :/

edit:
@robinwilliams
you forgot about cyber criminals who make malware w/ botnets and Bitcointalk scammers who steal BTC on trades etc etc
criminal free for all exchange LOL

[Zer0Sum]

If BTC collapses, why would anyone buy another crypto? It would just automatically be labeled a scam "just like BTC was".

Many people think BTC is scam right now, this doesn't stop you from buying it, does it? The key is to make a crypto that provides unique use cases and doesn't have the flaws that BTC has. One of the flaws of BTC and most other PoW cryptos is fiat leak due to mining expenditures, which makes this prolonged and sharp price decline possible.

BTC market cap is now only $4 billion...
And virtually all of that went to ASIC sellers, exchanges...
Scammers, gambling peddlars, and rip off artists that build ATM machines that fleece you for 9%.

Every Bitcoin Meetup I've been to is full of scammers... HOSTED  BY  SCAMMERS...
This forum is crawling with "celebrity scammers".

That makes it extremely expensive to use Bitcoin...
Credit cards and PayPal are way cheaper... and way more convenient.

Oh, when your accountant thinks talking about Bitcoin is "cool"...
That means the hipsters are LONG GONE.

[Zer0Sum]

If BTC collapses, why would anyone buy another crypto? It would just automatically be labeled a scam "just like BTC was".

Many people think BTC is scam right now, this doesn't stop you from buying it, does it? The key is to make a crypto that provides unique use cases and doesn't have the flaws that BTC has. One of the flaws of BTC and most other PoW cryptos is fiat leak due to mining expenditures, which makes this prolonged and sharp price decline possible.

BTC market cap is now only $4 billion...
And virtually all of that went to ASIC sellers, exchanges...
Scammers, gambling peddlars, and rip off artists that build ATM machines that fleece you for 9%.

Every Bitcoin Meetup I've been to is full of scammers... HOSTED  BY  SCAMMERS...
This forum is crawling with "celebrity scammers".

That makes it extremely expensive to use Bitcoin...
Credit cards and PayPal are way cheaper... and way more convenient... and 1000 times safer.

Oh, when your accountant thinks talking about Bitcoin is "cool"...
That means the hipsters are LONG GONE.

[cassius69]

If BTC collapses, why would anyone buy another crypto? It would just automatically be labeled a scam "just like BTC was".

Many people think BTC is scam right now, this doesn't stop you from buying it, does it? The key is to make a crypto that provides unique use cases and doesn't have the flaws that BTC has. One of the flaws of BTC and most other PoW cryptos is fiat leak due to mining expenditures, which makes this prolonged and sharp price decline possible.

BTC market cap is now only $4 billion...
And virtually all of that went to ASIC sellers, exchanges...
Scammers, gambling peddlars, and rip off artists that build ATM machines that fleece you for 9%.

Every Bitcoin Meetup I've been to is full of scammers... HOSTED  BY  SCAMMERS...
This forum is crawling with "celebrity scammers".

That makes it extremely expensive to use Bitcoin...
Credit cards and PayPal are way cheaper... and way more convenient... and 1000 times safer.

Oh, when your accountant thinks talking about Bitcoin is "cool"...
That means the hipsters are LONG GONE.

so what the fuck are you doing here? 

[LiberyOrDeath]

We've tested 275 USD a few hours ago, now it's back at 300 USD. I think 270-275 USD is the final resistance , and if it is broken - there are good chances this boat could sink even further - I would say saying under 100 USD by the end of the year is now a real possibility, for the first time in 12 months.

I'm holding my BTC and not selling it - however I am not buying at these prices either, let's wait until it is a couple of hundred bucks cheaper.

[Spoetnik]

If BTC collapses, why would anyone buy another crypto? It would just automatically be labeled a scam "just like BTC was".

Many people think BTC is scam right now, this doesn't stop you from buying it, does it? The key is to make a crypto that provides unique use cases and doesn't have the flaws that BTC has. One of the flaws of BTC and most other PoW cryptos is fiat leak due to mining expenditures, which makes this prolonged and sharp price decline possible.

BTC market cap is now only $4 billion...
And virtually all of that went to ASIC sellers, exchanges...
Scammers, gambling peddlars, and rip off artists that build ATM machines that fleece you for 9%.

Every Bitcoin Meetup I've been to is full of scammers... HOSTED  BY  SCAMMERS...
This forum is crawling with "celebrity scammers".

That makes it extremely expensive to use Bitcoin...
Credit cards and PayPal are way cheaper... and way more convenient... and 1000 times safer.

Oh, when your accountant thinks talking about Bitcoin is "cool"...
That means the hipsters are LONG GONE.

so what the fuck are you doing here? 

he was talking about Bitcoin in the "Altcoin" forum section.. maybe he wants a better coin than BTC ?

anyway..
surprised nobody wants to talk about the effect on Alternative coins here.
might be a good idea or this topic might go bye bye LOL

oh and This forum is crawling with "celebrity scammers" ?
i agree with you Zer0Sum and had no idea the fee's were that high on ATM's wow !

[devphp]

If BTC collapses, why would anyone buy another crypto? It would just automatically be labeled a scam "just like BTC was".

Many people think BTC is scam right now, this doesn't stop you from buying it, does it? The key is to make a crypto that provides unique use cases and doesn't have the flaws that BTC has. One of the flaws of BTC and most other PoW cryptos is fiat leak due to mining expenditures, which makes this prolonged and sharp price decline possible.

BTC market cap is now only $4 billion...
And virtually all of that went to ASIC sellers, exchanges...
Scammers, gambling peddlars, and rip off artists that build ATM machines that fleece you for 9%.

Every Bitcoin Meetup I've been to is full of scammers... HOSTED  BY  SCAMMERS...
This forum is crawling with "celebrity scammers".

That makes it extremely expensive to use Bitcoin...
Credit cards and PayPal are way cheaper... and way more convenient.

Oh, when your accountant thinks talking about Bitcoin is "cool"...
That means the hipsters are LONG GONE.

I understand your sarcasm, but would like to just point out market cap number doesn't represent how much $$$ was invested. A lot of Bitcoins are not for sale.

[ObscureBean]

You guys should not forget that some of the brightest devs around work on Bitcoin. Bitcoin has a very strong inner circle of dedicated people that contribute to development and ideas.
People who say that there are better coins out there need to remind themselves that 'better' is relative. These days you've got a 'better' coin coming out almost every other day. So what? Are you just gonna keep migrating from one better coin to the next 100 times a year, forever? Sounds a bit hectic to me. I'm sure in time, the Bitcoin devs might add new features to the coin. I don't think that this is a necessity right now, the tech is still new and will benefit more from refining than new features.
Also people shifting their focus from coin to coin every few days makes it hard for any coin to achieve a scale of distribution similar to Bitcoin. I think Bitcoin is far from dead.
Waiting for the next floor to buy some 

[true-asset]

The USD exchange rate is still more than double of what it was exactly 1 year ago:

https://blockchain.info/charts/market-price

2013: $122
2014: $330

So its all a matter of perspective.

[Ezravdb]

The BTC volume though!!

[doo]

Bitcoin crypto has reached the tipping point

FTFY

[naplam]

The USD exchange rate is still more than double of what it was exactly 1 year ago:

https://blockchain.info/charts/market-price

2013: $122
2014: $330

So its all a matter of perspective.

Yeah, try YTD. Or wait til december.

[naplam]

But it's not the tipping point after which it grows exponentially, no. It's the tipping point where people start fleeing it en masse to other technologies and undervalued cryptos. After all, why would you buy Bitcoin if you can buy something cheaper, which does the same, or even better - if you can buy something cheaper which does the same and then a few other things. Bitcoin was the bootstrapping crypto, now is the time for other technologies to take its place. It won't happen overnight, but the process has begun.

Bitcoin has always been a very poor currency if you could even call it that and it's been in an obvious bubble for a long time. It's useful to make payments but there is no reason to hold on to it, there never was besides the growing bubble. I've always thought its long-term value per btc would be low (or zero if it gets replaced by other cryptocurrencies). A low-value btc will be even more unstable than it is now, to the point that it no longer retains any usefulness as a currency let alone a store of value. The Bitcoin payment system is an interesting breakthrough, tough. If future altcoins succeed in being a real currency, a semi-decent store of value at least, they will kill Bitcoin eventually.

[Spoetnik]

The USD exchange rate is still more than double of what it was exactly 1 year ago:

https://blockchain.info/charts/market-price

2013: $122
2014: $330

So its all a matter of perspective.

no and that retort gets old fast.. that is a load of bullshit and you know it !

what would happen if Facebook or Apple shares went down to a buck each ? would you say the same dumb shit ?

just because you repeat something stupid does not make it real or true guys.
this is a common problem in crypto sadly and you all never learn..
and i actually think you guys start to believe your own bullshit when you repeat it all so damn much LOL

[Spoetnik]

But it's not the tipping point after which it grows exponentially, no. It's the tipping point where people start fleeing it en masse to other technologies and undervalued cryptos. After all, why would you buy Bitcoin if you can buy something cheaper, which does the same, or even better - if you can buy something cheaper which does the same and then a few other things. Bitcoin was the bootstrapping crypto, now is the time for other technologies to take its place. It won't happen overnight, but the process has begun.

Bitcoin has always been a very poor currency if you could even call it that and it's been in an obvious bubble for a long time. It's useful to make payments but there is no reason to hold on to it, there never was besides the growing bubble. I've always thought its long-term value per btc would be low (or zero if it gets replaced by other cryptocurrencies). A low-value btc will be even more unstable than it is now, to the point that it no longer retains any usefulness as a currency let alone a store of value. The Bitcoin payment system is an interesting breakthrough, tough. If future altcoins succeed in being a real currency, a semi-decent store of value at least, they will kill Bitcoin eventually.

your wrong..

if the NY Stock Exchange added it right now what will happen ?

i don't need to say anymore..

[naplam]

the end result would be the same anyway. reinflating the bubble would only make us go through the last 12 months again.

[devphp]

The current dead-cat bounce has run out of steam. Prepare for a repeat of testing the lows of below $300 ~at the end of October. The next halvening of block rewards is still a long way to go, a lot of inflation is going to hit the Bitcoin ecosystem between now and then, which is reflected in the price.

[anonerd]

How about next-gen useful coins like Gridcoin (scientific mining)?
This Oktober we will see a less complicated new client, that enables robust exchange
and we could finally have people understand mechanics of scientific progress that Gridcoin brings via BOINC-integration.

[fewcoins]

The current dead-cat bounce has run out of steam. Prepare for a repeat of testing the lows of below $300 ~at the end of October. The next halvening of block rewards is still a long way to go, a lot of inflation is going to hit the Bitcoin ecosystem between now and then, which is reflected in the price.

Ding ding ding, Even Litecoin will be a penny stock when the month ends

[Trishula]

bitcoin will rise again!

[Moneroman88]

Where is the point in Bitcoin anyway?

[Spoetnik]

How about next-gen useful coins like Gridcoin (scientific mining)?
This Oktober we will see a less complicated new client, that enables robust exchange
and we could finally have people understand mechanics of scientific progress that Gridcoin brings via BOINC-integration.

sounds great and i like the coin but is it still scrypt ?
and last year when i used it i had to setup a complicated Windows only wallet.
gotta have linux or your not going anywhere i think

i am a HUGE science fan and love stuff like GRC + Boinc + SETI project + finding aliens and making coins

just imagine the scale of how much computing power we have at our disposal and how if we could bridge the gap
and get that hashing power in the hands of research scientists.. jeez we could really fast forward science !
from space physics to medical problems to solving diseases etc

and we are sooooo close to having a solid system of POW that would incentive this concept for us ensuring the concept would keep expanding.
just imagine people falling over each other to the hash power at doing scientific computing to solve real world problems or search for Alien life etc.
this to me is the ultimate goal of this stuff !

but a basic open source Linux client is step one lol
after all Linux is popular big time in science right ? ..it only makes sense.

In other News..
Kali came out with v1.09 last week and 1.1.0 is due out pretty quick.. looking forward to those Linux distrib versions
although i am 99% a Windows 7 guy ...please tell them to make a Kali pre-integrated GRC Wallet

edit:
when was the last time a guy mentioned XPM ?
sad isn't it ?

[LiberyOrDeath]

The current dead-cat bounce has run out of steam. Prepare for a repeat of testing the lows of below $300 ~at the end of October. The next halvening of block rewards is still a long way to go, a lot of inflation is going to hit the Bitcoin ecosystem between now and then, which is reflected in the price.

That is a very relevant observation. I share your views. The price just cannot stay above 400 USD under these conditions. We will prick around 300 USD for months. If we break the 270 USD resistance then all hell might break lose, seeing BTC under $100 is not a joke anymore but a realistic option.

[TaunSew]

Then people ask how is this possible?

Nature of mining has changed significantly.  It used to be low overhead miners mining from bedrooms.  Now it's guys who spend $60K a month in electricity and have huge factories full of computers.  A lot of these industrial miners came online in 2014 and the more that come online the more the price drops.

 So the difference now is that these coins go to a few people and they have to dump most of them to pay for their overhead.

Then there's also dumping from BTC whales, previously hibernating from 2009-2013, who've been spending like drunken sailors too.

[darthcoin]

We've tested 275 USD a few hours ago, now it's back at 300 USD. I think 270-275 USD is the final resistance , and if it is broken - there are good chances this boat could sink even further - I would say saying under 100 USD by the end of the year is now a real possibility, for the first time in 12 months.

I'm holding my BTC and not selling it - however I am not buying at these prices either, let's wait until it is a couple of hundred bucks cheaper.

You think if BTC falls below 100$ it will ever recover to the previous highs?

[devphp]

You think if BTC falls below 100$ it will ever recover to the previous highs?

There is no reason why it should recover if it falls that low. It would mean the Proof-of-Work mechanism is very close to its death. The fiat leak from the mining network is too large, users can't sustain the network for a long time. PoW is unsustainable in the long run. The bitcoin core is highly unlikely to add new features. New technologies are taking over, this is a process of years, not months, don't fall for short term hype and dead-cat rebounds. I expect a rebound when the next block reward reduction takes place in (~1-2 years? can anyone remind when that is to happen?), but that is also just a technical blip.

[LiberyOrDeath]

We've tested 275 USD a few hours ago, now it's back at 300 USD. I think 270-275 USD is the final resistance , and if it is broken - there are good chances this boat could sink even further - I would say saying under 100 USD by the end of the year is now a real possibility, for the first time in 12 months.

I'm holding my BTC and not selling it - however I am not buying at these prices either, let's wait until it is a couple of hundred bucks cheaper.

You think if BTC falls below 100$ it will ever recover to the previous highs?

Nothing is impossible. It might hit 1 K in a few weeks, or it might be trading under 100 USD for a few months or years. Or it might sink even lower. At this point BTC is a much riskier investment than it was 1 or 2 years ago. We have reached a critical point and the next 12 months will be the key. As Satoshi Nakamoto said it himself, BTC will either be fully implemented in the world economy or it will die. There is no third option. That's the key issue. Either it takes over the whole monetary system of this planet or it dies. Simple as that. Now, what is closer to reality in your opinion?

[devphp]

The current dead-cat bounce has run out of steam. Prepare for a repeat of testing the lows of below $300 ~at the end of October.

And so it begins.

[Daedelus]

Does Bitcoin have any plans to have faster and still secure transactions? If not, I can't see it (or anything built on it) going anywhere.

[Sarahiko]

One of the reason why bitcoin is falling is the none stop popping of new altcoins, IPO,ICO which don`t offer anything.

[fewcoins]

One of the reason why bitcoin is falling is the none stop popping of new altcoins, IPO,ICO which don`t offer anything.

Very true, If everyone just clamped down to focus on BTC then cryptocurrencies in general will be more accepted and get very far!

[Daedelus]

One of the reason why bitcoin is falling is the none stop popping of new altcoins, IPO,ICO which don`t offer anything.

If this is true, how can they draw money away from bitcoin for more than a few weeks? And usually altcoins only amount to $200,000 - $3M marketcaps? This is a drop in the ocean of Bitcoins marketcap. If you added ALL of the other market caps to bitcoins, bitcoin would rise less than 10%!  


More likely "One of the reason why bitcoin is falling is the none stop popping selling of new alt bitcoins to pay the miners and obscure the true cost of transactions."

And people are beginning to realise. And it is slow, with apparently no plan to speed up.

[muddafudda]

One of the reason why bitcoin is falling is the none stop popping of new altcoins, IPO,ICO which don`t offer anything.

Very true, If everyone just clamped down to focus on BTC then cryptocurrencies in general will be more accepted and get very far!

do you think this one doesnt offer anything?

It really a stupid idea that offers nothing

[muddafudda]

One of the reason why bitcoin is falling is the none stop popping of new altcoins, IPO,ICO which don`t offer anything.

Very true, If everyone just clamped down to focus on BTC then cryptocurrencies in general will be more accepted and get very far!

do you think this one doesnt offer anything?

It really a stupid idea that offers nothing

HAHA.. ok.. you will see.. not many coins that have remote harvesting(forging) and multisig PRIOR to launch.. a distribution of 3000 original and mostly veteran stake holders all getting equal number of coins, 5 epic developers, a new algorithm call proof of importance that seem the next logical step. PoW -> PoS - PoI. ya if you dont see potential in that then you are blind.. lol

I've watched 100's of posts like yours, speak shit and promote something that it totally worthless.

Invest your house in it or shut the fuck up really

[fewcoins]

Investing that much in someone else's digital pyramid scheme?! You guys are nutsss!!! God bless you all!!!

[Robif]

What is the possibility for some bitcoin 2.0 technology to thrive if bitcoin fails?

I don't think bitcoin has reached the tipping point, rather say that crypto currencies has reached it.

Blockchain technology is here and it is not going away, ever. Bitcoin on the other hand probably will be replaced with 2.0 coin/share/asset.

[BoscoBlue]

But it's not the tipping point after which it grows exponentially, no. It's the tipping point where people start fleeing it en masse to other technologies and undervalued cryptos. After all, why would you buy Bitcoin if you can buy something cheaper, which does the same, or even better - if you can buy something cheaper which does the same and then a few other things. Bitcoin was the bootstrapping crypto, now is the time for other technologies to take its place. It won't happen overnight, but the process has begun.

I'm not sure if you can discount the infrastructure behind bitcoin. Others might do the same or better, but to catch up to bitcoin in terms of distribution or acceptance, seems far fetched.

[MrBig]

We've tested 275 USD a few hours ago, now it's back at 300 USD. I think 270-275 USD is the final resistance , and if it is broken - there are good chances this boat could sink even further - I would say saying under 100 USD by the end of the year is now a real possibility, for the first time in 12 months.

I'm holding my BTC and not selling it - however I am not buying at these prices either, let's wait until it is a couple of hundred bucks cheaper.

You think if BTC falls below 100$ it will ever recover to the previous highs?

I don't see why it couldn't. If a bunch of whales dumped their coins at the same time on an exchange, we could see that happen.

[e-coinomist]

Finally Litecoin will not replace Bitcoin, but Bitcoin takes Litecoin's Marketcap 

[devphp]

I'm not sure if you can discount the infrastructure behind bitcoin. Others might do the same or better, but to catch up to bitcoin in terms of distribution or acceptance, seems far fetched.

Distribution of Bitcoin is far from ideal and will only get worse as mining becomes more and more centralized. As for acceptance, I am not sure the widely publicized numbers are anywhere close to reality. It's very hard to live on Bitcoin unless you are in a very big city and make a lot of efforts to find vendors who accept Bitcoin in exchange for food, shelter, etc. Same goes for infrastructure: the programming part is easy to adjust for crypto 2.0 technologies, this crypto movement has just started, the first mover advantage of Bitcoin is not that big, except in people's minds. Well, marketing and usefulness help to change people's perception rather quickly.

[TaunSew]

I'm not sure if you can discount the infrastructure behind bitcoin. Others might do the same or better, but to catch up to bitcoin in terms of distribution or acceptance, seems far fetched.

Distribution of Bitcoin is far from ideal and will only get worse as mining becomes more and more centralized. As for acceptance, I am not sure the widely publicized numbers are anywhere close to reality. It's very hard to live on Bitcoin unless you are in a very big city and make a lot of efforts to find vendors who accept Bitcoin in exchange for food, shelter, etc. Same goes for infrastructure: the programming part is easy to adjust for crypto 2.0 technologies, this crypto movement has just started, the first mover advantage of Bitcoin is not that big, except in people's minds. Well, marketing and usefulness help to change people's perception rather quickly.

There's no first mover advantage in something with only 500K-2M users as per Bitcoin.  The internet back in the late 1980s had up to 3 million users but TCP/IP did not have 600 alternates and TCP/IP was also officiated by the US military in the 1980s.  I think everybody on Bitcointalk is wrong - I still think we're in the innovator stage of this technology and digital currencies will be $trillions someday with 100 million to 1 billion users.


Bitcoin is not the Yahoo or Alta Vista of crypto currencies yet.   Bitcoin could become that Yahoo but there's a critical problem here called userbase expansion and nobody wants to address that elephant in the living room.  

[devphp]

...with only 500K-2M users as per Bitcoin.

Those numbers are overestimates, the real numbers are closer to 50k-200k.

[TaunSew]

...with only 500K-2M users as per Bitcoin.

Those numbers are overestimates, the real numbers are closer to 50k-200k.

Then that would be more incentive for people to roll up their sleeves and grow the userbase.  Bitcoin after all had a peak capitalization of what $18 billion or was it higher?

The commodity characteristics means if any digital currency were to hit 100 million users then it would be probably be worth $Trillions.  

[BoscoBlue]

Distribution of Bitcoin is far from ideal and will only get worse as mining becomes more and more centralized. As for acceptance, I am not sure the widely publicized numbers are anywhere close to reality. It's very hard to live on Bitcoin unless you are in a very big city and make a lot of efforts to find vendors who accept Bitcoin in exchange for food, shelter, etc. Same goes for infrastructure: the programming part is easy to adjust for crypto 2.0 technologies, this crypto movement has just started, the first mover advantage of Bitcoin is not that big, except in people's minds. Well, marketing and usefulness help to change people's perception rather quickly.

You have a great point. The focus seems to be on technology, the coin that focuses on business, ease of use, and marketing could emerge quickly. I did read the the bitcoin foundation was pushing an outreach program.

[identtitentti]

...with only 500K-2M users as per Bitcoin.

Those numbers are overestimates, the real numbers are closer to 50k-200k.

Then that would be more incentive for people to roll up their sleeves and grow the userbase.  Bitcoin after all had a peak capitalization of what $18 billion or was it higher?

The commodity characteristics means if any digital currency were to hit 100 million users then it would be probably be worth $Trillions.  

For block chain ecosystems this is still the age of first adapter nerds and the situation will remain like that for some time. In that regard the first five year period 2008-2013, aka "the age of bitcoin", has been nothing but amazing.

Bitcoin is just one monetary recepy a lá Austrian School & gold bugs, using already outdated block chain tech, and in that respect the age of bitcoin is over, and probably same goes for all purely PoW system. And this is not about bitcoin - or mere financial speculation (even though much of the hypnotism of dollar images still remain, as above), this about the full potential of block chain to reinvent and rebuild whole global society and it's multitude of various localities on decentralized peer-to-peer basis instead of currently centralized hierarchical pyramid schemes. To disrupt the destruction and to realize genuine global constructive anarchy.

To grow the user base of block chain ecosystems and make it available to averadge joe and my granny, much needs to be done and much is being done. In that respect I can talk about FIMK-project, which I'm personally most familiar with. FIMK is a semilocal and semiglobal coin, third of which will be distributed as "basic income" to identifiable Finnish citizens, and to succeed it is very important not to be and not to even appear as a pump-and-dump. The basic technical challenges of the core system are getting solved (on tech wizard 2.5 generation level), and the next and parallel phase is making the tech not only user friendly but easy and simple to adopt and use for both merchants and buyers in every day life. And as the basic philosophy of FIMK is community instead of speculation, the main interest in FIMK assets has not been to imitate stock market, but to vision and plan use of FIMK based assets for example as local community (city, (eco)village, etc.) currencies. Needless to say, FIMK is ongoing gradual process, and its experience and success can teach us a lot of how to grow user base of block chain ecosystems, and to answer from one part in responsible and creative way to the growing global demand for means of building alternative society to replace this self-destructive one.

[Normandoyle]

...with only 500K-2M users as per Bitcoin.

Those numbers are overestimates, the real numbers are closer to 50k-200k.

Then that would be more incentive for people to roll up their sleeves and grow the userbase.  Bitcoin after all had a peak capitalization of what $18 billion or was it higher?

The commodity characteristics means if any digital currency were to hit 100 million users then it would be probably be worth $Trillions.  

For block chain ecosystems this is still the age of first adapter nerds and the situation will remain like that for some time. In that regard the first five year period 2008-2013, aka "the age of bitcoin", has been nothing but amazing.

Bitcoin is just one monetary recepy a lá Austrian School & gold bugs, using already outdated block chain tech, and in that respect the age of bitcoin is over, and probably same goes for all purely PoW system. And this is not about bitcoin - or mere financial speculation (even though much of the hypnotism of dollar images still remain, as above), this about the full potential of block chain to reinvent and rebuild whole global society and it's multitude of various localities on decentralized peer-to-peer basis instead of currently centralized hierarchical pyramid schemes. To disrupt the destruction and to realize genuine global constructive anarchy.

To grow the user base of block chain ecosystems and make it available to averadge joe and my granny, much needs to be done and much is being done. In that respect I can talk about FIMK-project, which I'm personally most familiar with. FIMK is a semilocal and semiglobal coin third of which will be distributed as "basic income" to identifiable Finnish citizens, and to succeed it is very important not to be and not to even appear as a pump-and-dump. The basic technical challenges of the core system are getting solved (on tech wizard 2.5 generation level), and the next and parallel phase is making the tech not only user friendly but easy and simple to adopt and use for both merchants and buyers in every day life. And as the basic philosophy of FIMK is community instead of speculation, the main interest in FIMK assets has not been to imitate stock market, but to vision and plan use of FIMK based assets as local community currencies. Needless to say, FIMK is ongoing gradual process, and its experience and success can teach us a lot of how to grow user base of block chain ecosystems, and to answer from one part in responsible and creative way to the growing global demand for means of building alternative society to replace this self-destructive one.

The growth of Bitcoin can only be compared to the growth of the internet.

In technical terms, if Bitcoin were the internet, this would be 1998.

[devphp]

The growth of Bitcoin can only be compared to the growth of the internet.

In technical terms, if Bitcoin were the internet, this would be 1998.

Internet is not static in its underlying protocols, it has seen older technologies replaced with new technologies. I compare Bitcoin to UUCP here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=766406.msg8724572#msg8724572

[devphp]

The current dead-cat bounce has run out of steam. Prepare for a repeat of testing the lows of below $300 ~at the end of October.

$275-$300 area has to be tested again, no way around it. If that holds, the bulls can cautiously rejoice.

[LiberyOrDeath]

The current dead-cat bounce has run out of steam. Prepare for a repeat of testing the lows of below $300 ~at the end of October.

$275-$300 area has to be tested again, no way around it. If that holds, the bulls can cautiously rejoice.

Well it has happened already, we have touched $275 this month. That is the last and strongest resistance. I believe it will hold, but if it breaks, we could be in for the downfall to $100 or below. Hopefully that never happens.

[devphp]

The current dead-cat bounce has run out of steam. Prepare for a repeat of testing the lows of below $300 ~at the end of October.

$275-$300 area has to be tested again, no way around it. If that holds, the bulls can cautiously rejoice.

Well it has happened already, we have touched $275 this month. That is the last and strongest resistance. I believe it will hold, but if it breaks, we could be in for the downfall to $100 or below. Hopefully that never happens.

I believe $275-300 should hold, it's strong enough. But I think the price is still going to test it again, to confirm that the bottom is in.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

The current dead-cat bounce has run out of steam. Prepare for a repeat of testing the lows of below $300 ~at the end of October.

$275-$300 area has to be tested again, no way around it. If that holds, the bulls can cautiously rejoice.

Well it has happened already, we have touched $275 this month. That is the last and strongest resistance. I believe it will hold, but if it breaks, we could be in for the downfall to $100 or below. Hopefully that never happens.

I believe $275-300 should hold, it's strong enough. But I think the price is still going to test it again, to confirm that the bottom is in.

I commit to buying one at 300. Three at 275. Then I will hodl until probably 100 then dump

[BootstrapCoinDev]

If it is the Chinese gov. blocking access to Bitcointalk or if they claim the forum is blocking the Chinese IPs either way that cannot be a reason for the price fluctuation.

Chinese holders of Bitcoin selling to buy Ali Baba's shares makes sense, because that's the only way they can get money out of the country and use it to buy in the US stock market.

[LiberyOrDeath]

The current dead-cat bounce has run out of steam. Prepare for a repeat of testing the lows of below $300 ~at the end of October.

$275-$300 area has to be tested again, no way around it. If that holds, the bulls can cautiously rejoice.

I agree, we have tested $275 already, but if we break it, it might just as well go down to 100 bucks, hopefully this resistance is strong enough to keep it above $300.

[Spoetnik]

We hit 330 again now..
Lot of dumping as usual on BTC-e

effects on Altcoins ?

[devphp]

We hit 330 again now..
Lot of dumping as usual on BTC-e

effects on Altcoins ?

Cryptos are in the transition period that coincides with the first bear market for Bitcoin (to last 12+ months), effects on altcoins are multidirectional, chaotic and unknown. Better stick to something with good fundamentals and try to buy more of it on dips regardless of where Bitcoin price is heading, and diversify too.

[V500]

Bitcoin is the lesson we needed to learn:
don't hold coins longterm that inflate with 10%+ annually.

[rugrats]

Bitcoin's value went up five-fold in just a few months late last year primarily owing to Mark Karpeles machinations at Mt.Gox and the entry of Chinese whales into cryptoland. The price spike stopped around the time China's central bank banned financial institutions from participating in Bitcoin trade. Prices started to slide shortly thereafter, not least because of the Mt.Gox fiasco.

By the first quarter of 2014, I think everyone realized that the height of Q4/2013 was a false dawn, and a major correction was due.

Since then, four major factors, in my opinion, has further dampened Bitcoin's value.

The first, the rumored external accumulation of BTCs by whales in anticipation of the entry of U.S.-based institutional investors into the scene.
Second, the Chinese central bank's instruction for banks to close the account of Bitcoin exchanges. This triggered a sell-off that has lasted right up to now.
Third, the increasingly centralized nature of Bitcoin mining. The shadow following Ghash.io has only become larger, and the rumored SEC letter to them earlier this week has made some extremely nervous.
Fourth, the rape of Litecoin by ASICs. Many are building a position in LTC using BTC, in anticipation of a recovery.

I don't believe Bitcoin is nearing its end. I think this is a period of consolidation and correction in a very nervous and easily spooked market.

[Spoetnik]

Bitcoin's value went up five-fold in just a few months late last year primarily owing to Mark Karpeles machinations at Mt.Gox and the entry of Chinese whales into cryptoland. The price spike stopped around the time China's central bank banned financial institutions from participating in Bitcoin trade. Prices started to slide shortly thereafter, not least because of the Mt.Gox fiasco.

By the first quarter of 2014, I think everyone realized that the height of Q4/2013 was a false dawn, and a major correction was due.

Since then, four major factors, in my opinion, has further dampened Bitcoin's value.

The first, the rumored external accumulation of BTCs by whales in anticipation of the entry of U.S.-based institutional investors into the scene.
Second, the Chinese central bank's instruction for banks to close the account of Bitcoin exchanges. This triggered a sell-off that has lasted right up to now.
Third, the increasingly centralized nature of Bitcoin mining. The shadow following Ghash.io has only become larger, and the rumored SEC letter to them earlier this week has made some extremely nervous.
Fourth, the rape of Litecoin by ASICs. Many are building a position in LTC using BTC, in anticipation of a recovery.

I don't believe Bitcoin is nearing its end. I think this is a period of consolidation and correction in a very nervous and easily spooked market.

ya i kinda figured as much all along too.. i just wouldn't want to have to type all that out.. i'm pretty damn lazy LOL

[devphp]

It's interesting that when bitcoiners finally realize that Bitcoin itself is not going anywhere, the rush into crypto 2.0 technologies will be quick and violent. And because the supply of crypto 2.0 tokens is limited, the price will shoot up. At this point many people will be asking "what happened?", "why did the price of a certain crypto 2.0 go up so quickly?", "is it too late to buy now?" usual questions.

[V500]

too high inflation too long into adoption kills off adoption and makes it look bad in general.

We know that now.
By the end of the year media is going to beat bitcoin as a popped bubble and ponzi if it doesn't start to perform.

Inflation helps noone

If it doesn't get off the ground soon it's done with. If it rises like crazy on the other hand after this performance past year people will say "somethings wrong with it" and they will be right about that.
People will not see it as a currency but as a manipulated casino for the crazy ones. Almost too late now. If it turns now and rises to 1000$+ in a matter of days or weeks people will say it's an unclean asset because the performance is not normal or in the slightest way predictable.

High inflation and clumsy halving in bitcoin made it ultra-volatile, look very bad and shy away investors.

[naplam]

It's interesting that when bitcoiners finally realize that Bitcoin itself is not going anywhere, the rush into crypto 2.0 technologies will be quick and violent. And because the supply of crypto 2.0 tokens is limited, the price will shoot up. At this point many people will be asking "what happened?", "why did the price of a certain crypto 2.0 go up so quickly?", "is it too late to buy now?" usual questions.

it's not happening because the so-called crpyto-2.0 features are useless

[LeChatNoir]

It's interesting that when bitcoiners finally realize that Bitcoin itself is not going anywhere, the rush into crypto 2.0 technologies will be quick and violent. And because the supply of crypto 2.0 tokens is limited, the price will shoot up. At this point many people will be asking "what happened?", "why did the price of a certain crypto 2.0 go up so quickly?", "is it too late to buy now?" usual questions.

I agree.

It's a shame and a danger that bitcoin currently represents about 94% of total cryptocurrencies market cap.
This is due to bitcoin maximalism and those bitcoin cheerleaders who fell in love with bitcoin, don't want to see the limits of bitcoin, think bitcoin is perfect and refuse to diversify even 1% of their holdings into valid alternatives.

[naplam]

It's a shame and a danger that bitcoin currently represents about 94% of total cryptocurrencies market cap.
This is due to being firstbitcoin maximalism and those bitcoin cheerleaders who fell in love with bitcoin, don't want to see the limits of bitcoin, think bitcoin is perfect and refuse to diversify even 1% of their holdings into valid alternatives.

fixed that for you

[Dr. Coin]

I disagree with a lot being said here. Bitcoins are still more useful than other crypto currencies due to its usability and higher price actually. Someone mentioned why use Bitcoin if we can get other cryptos for cheaper and still have the same usability. Well, first off, most other cryptos do not have the same usability on a practical level (forget the anonymity and other shenanigans for a moment). Major corporations are accepting them and the higher price makes it more practical. Unless you call practical using 1,000,000 crypto coins to pay for a can of soda. Also, there you go again, mentioning cheaper. Why does that matter? Everyone just wants to profit, but forget that. Look at it like a currency if you want Bitcoins, or any crypto to move far.

Bitcoins are at a very low point right now, price wise, not necessarily momentum wise if you look at the big picture.

Just because 1 Bitcoin is not worth what it used to be worth is not a bad thing. If it stabilized at $200, that would be fine by me and this consistent price further ensures usability and practicality to the masses whether its for purchasing items, or using it as an investment to store money.

I do not think that all other cryptos are silly, some have good value, and by some, I mean 2-4 of them.

Just my two cents.

[naplam]

The most promising news for bitcoin in quite a while:
http://rt.com/business/200883-banking-secrecy-obsolete-berlin-tax/

[gustocoin]

Clearly the way Bitcoin is mined is extremely wasteful. It has probably cost tens of millions of dollars to create what we have so far and that cost is only going to rise more quickly going forward. A completely new approach to mining that does not lead to waste but actually creates benefits for miners and society will be the next revolution. Believe me.

[TaunSew]

It's interesting that when bitcoiners finally realize that Bitcoin itself is not going anywhere, the rush into crypto 2.0 technologies will be quick and violent. And because the supply of crypto 2.0 tokens is limited, the price will shoot up. At this point many people will be asking "what happened?", "why did the price of a certain crypto 2.0 go up so quickly?", "is it too late to buy now?" usual questions.

I agree.

It's a shame and a danger that bitcoin currently represents about 94% of total cryptocurrencies market cap.
This is due to bitcoin maximalism and those bitcoin cheerleaders who fell in love with bitcoin, don't want to see the limits of bitcoin, think bitcoin is perfect and refuse to diversify even 1% of their holdings into valid alternatives.

Not when you consider the distribution breakdown of Bitcoin.  Most of the funds are held by very few people (or even lost wallets), so it doesn't make any sense for them to champion or empower another alternate currency when their gains would be higher just from hodling Bitcoin.

Not that it really matters as the real persons behind Bitcoin is only 500K-2M million.  Bitcoin with such a small userbase will likely be replaced by another coin better at promotion and userbase expansion and the biggest Bitcoin holders will be denial and would refuse to move over and even would FUD that currency as much as possible.

[TaunSew]

Clearly the way Bitcoin is mined is extremely wasteful. It has probably cost tens of millions of dollars to create what we have so far and that cost is only going to rise more quickly going forward. A completely new approach to mining that does not lead to waste but actually creates benefits for miners and society will be the next revolution. Believe me.

Not even close.  There's multiple vblogs which claim the cost for Bitcoin security is actually $680 million a year.  Something like $2 million is mined everyday and like 80% of it is dumped to meet the overhead of production (electricity, factory space, new hardware).

This cost for security will only increase exponential alongside the growth of Bitcoin.  So $10K Bitcoin might mean security cost exceeding $10s of billions a year and this would all go to a few mining professionals who might be dumping 80%-95% of that.

[devphp]

I disagree with a lot being said here. Bitcoins are still more useful than other crypto currencies due to its usability and higher price actually. Someone mentioned why use Bitcoin if we can get other cryptos for cheaper and still have the same usability. Well, first off, most other cryptos do not have the same usability on a practical level (forget the anonymity and other shenanigans for a moment). Major corporations are accepting them and the higher price makes it more practical. Unless you call practical using 1,000,000 crypto coins to pay for a can of soda. Also, there you go again, mentioning cheaper. Why does that matter? Everyone just wants to profit, but forget that. Look at it like a currency if you want Bitcoins, or any crypto to move far.

Bitcoins are at a very low point right now, price wise, not necessarily momentum wise if you look at the big picture.

Just because 1 Bitcoin is not worth what it used to be worth is not a bad thing. If it stabilized at $200, that would be fine by me and this consistent price further ensures usability and practicality to the masses whether its for purchasing items, or using it as an investment to store money.

I do not think that all other cryptos are silly, some have good value, and by some, I mean 2-4 of them.

Just my two cents.

Bitcoin is not useful to common folks and that's what counts. Crypto currencies need to find unique use cases to generate demand to be successful. Major corporations accepting them? There are not so many yet and all that serves is to milk the Bitcoin ecosystem for fiat, the price drops as a result. The right approach would be to make it a closed loop where Bitcoins that merchants accept for goods and services are used by them to pay back their suppliers, but no, this is not happening. Bitcoins are swapped for fiat immediately, this fiat leakage needs to be fixed before this ecosystem has a chance to be as dominating the world as some dream it should be.

Bitcoin still has to test below $300 again as mentioned a few posts above, and if that holds, that could be the low in this bear market. It can't go above $500 before it re-tests and doesn't break the below $300 (~$275) target it reached in October.

What is your plan if this bear market is to continue another 12 months?

[Wekkel]

What is your plan if this bear market is to continue another 12 months?

I am HODLING

[djm34]

I disagree with a lot being said here. Bitcoins are still more useful than other crypto currencies due to its usability and higher price actually. Someone mentioned why use Bitcoin if we can get other cryptos for cheaper and still have the same usability. Well, first off, most other cryptos do not have the same usability on a practical level (forget the anonymity and other shenanigans for a moment). Major corporations are accepting them and the higher price makes it more practical. Unless you call practical using 1,000,000 crypto coins to pay for a can of soda. Also, there you go again, mentioning cheaper. Why does that matter? Everyone just wants to profit, but forget that. Look at it like a currency if you want Bitcoins, or any crypto to move far.

Bitcoins are at a very low point right now, price wise, not necessarily momentum wise if you look at the big picture.

Just because 1 Bitcoin is not worth what it used to be worth is not a bad thing. If it stabilized at $200, that would be fine by me and this consistent price further ensures usability and practicality to the masses whether its for purchasing items, or using it as an investment to store money.

I do not think that all other cryptos are silly, some have good value, and by some, I mean 2-4 of them.

Just my two cents.

Bitcoin is not useful to common folks and that's what counts. Crypto currencies need to find unique use cases to generate demand to be successful. Major corporations accepting them? There are not so many yet and all that serves is to milk the Bitcoin ecosystem for fiat, the price drops as a result. The right approach would be to make it a closed loop where Bitcoins that merchants accept for goods and services are used by them to pay back their suppliers, but no, this is not happening.

closed loop never works... looks at russian ruble during soviet era, that was a closed loop money since it wasn't bound to international market.
We know, now that the experience is over, it didn't work and would require self-sufficiency, which never entirely happens.
Also the market isn't interested either by this as it has to have a value to interest people...

[mistercoin]

Meh. it is really hard to say. Crypto in general is probably the only other tech that people in this type of community will ever go to anyway, or at least, people who are true to the original philosophy of crypto-currency.

[devphp]

closed loop never works...

I sure didn't mean a 100% closed loop, there would always be fiat gateways back and forth. But when 95-100% of bitcoins paid to merchants are immediately exchanged back to fiat, that's bad, mkay )

[devphp]

What is your plan if this bear market is to continue another 12 months?

I am HODLING

Such determination )

[devphp]

Do you guys feel that with each failed rally AKA dead-cat bounce confidence in Bitcoin is waning and investors more and more probe into what's behind those alternatives? That's certainly the impression I've had recently. Yeah, there are a few die-hard bitcoiners here, who are in denial, but they don't seem to have enough dough to reverse the trend.

[Wekkel]

Do you guys feel that with each failed rally AKA dead-cat bounce confidence in Bitcoin is waning and investors more and more probe into what's behind those alternatives? That's certainly the impression I've had recently. Yeah, there are a few die-hard bitcoiners here, who are in denial, but they don't seem to have enough dough to reverse the trend.

Bitcoin price does not hamper its function. Bitcoin is doing just fine.

[devphp]

Bitcoin price does not hamper its function. Bitcoin is doing just fine.

That's not the point I make. The point is that Bitcoin's function is to fuel growth of more advanced crypto technologies and that's what has been going on. Bitcoin funds R&D of crypto 2.0 and its price is a reflection of that trend.

[e-coinomist]

Bitcoin price does not hamper its function. Bitcoin is doing just fine.

Except that people cannot mine it no more at home. Which is probably the reason why we are dabbling in Altcoins here.

Price merely follows that effect. Other impacts on the price decline might be caused by that notorious shortage of Silkroads out there, getting busted on a fixed shedule now. So any predictions of 1000 dollars at Xmas are outdated, obviously.

[raskul]

there have been many smoke and mirror attempts by longstanding members of these forums and long-term bitcoiners to dilute the bitcoin network, push people away towards 'other' cryptocurrencies, and in my view, this thread is just another attempt at that.

isn't it desirable to hardcore miners to have the network reduce in hashrate by duping miners into believing 'thiscoin' and 'thatcoin' are going to be worth more than bitcoin in the future? thus leading the blind miner towards mining something else, which in the end has no intrinsic value whatsoever?

I do however, believe that BTC did reach its ATH (that is ALL TIME high in the truest sense of its meaning) in winter 2013. it will not go beyond the mark of $1200 ever again, but it may reach near to it once or twice in the future.

personally, i'm content with that. too many folk dwell on their own greed, thinking that $350 $400 $500 is a low mark for BTC.

it should be realised, $400 is in no way a low mark.

BTC-e $369.783 at time of writing this post - a good price for any cryptocurrency.

[devphp]

there have been many smoke and mirror attempts by longstanding members of these forums and long-term bitcoiners to dilute the bitcoin network, push people away towards 'other' cryptocurrencies, and in my view, this thread is just another attempt at that.

isn't it desirable to hardcore miners to have the network reduce in hashrate by duping miners into believing 'thiscoin' and 'thatcoin' are going to be worth more than bitcoin in the future? thus leading the blind miner towards mining something else, which in the end has no intrinsic value whatsoever?

So, you think I am a hardcore Bitcoin miner trying to lead other miners with my thread to other coins to reduce hashrate of Bitcoin network so I could mine more Bitcoins for myself? Well, you certainly are free to make that conclusion. But it just goes to prove that die-hard Bitcoiners often think that everyone else has the same blind faith in Bitcoin that they do, brushing away all the reasoning and logic given in this thread, obsessed with the idea that Bitcoin is salvation, such religion

[raskul]

there have been many smoke and mirror attempts by longstanding members of these forums and long-term bitcoiners to dilute the bitcoin network, push people away towards 'other' cryptocurrencies, and in my view, this thread is just another attempt at that.

isn't it desirable to hardcore miners to have the network reduce in hashrate by duping miners into believing 'thiscoin' and 'thatcoin' are going to be worth more than bitcoin in the future? thus leading the blind miner towards mining something else, which in the end has no intrinsic value whatsoever?

So, you think I am a hardcore Bitcoin miner trying to lead other miners with my thread to other coins to reduce hashrate of Bitcoin network so I could mine more Bitcoins for myself? Well, you certainly are free to make that conclusion. But it just goes to prove that die-hard Bitcoiners often think that everyone else has the same blind faith in Bitcoin that they do, brushing away all the reasoning and logic given in this thread, obsessed with the idea that Bitcoin is salvation, such religion

in cyrpto-world we have:

shitcoin, scamcoin, porncoin, countrycoin, cloudcoin and Bitcoin.

So... why on earth would you advise anyone to invest in anything which is simply a rip-off (or an advanced ripoff) of something that already has sustained value?
me? i mine because i get free electric, there is no religion in that, just a simple extra bit of cash every month. The more hash-rate that gets dumped on the network, the less pocket money I get from mining every month. You are awfully keen to jump to conclusions regarding my personal faith.

here is the current balance of my wallet: 1N5u4nxxitJZoZ86g7M2zU6hvXVkDHruqk

you see me worshipping anything? i'm quite transparent. not selling anything, not diverting anyones ideals and not trying to promote a shitcoin.
yes, your OP seems like smoke and mirrors to divert miners away from bitcoin.

just saying.

[devphp]

So... why on earth would you advise anyone to invest in anything which is simply a rip-off (or an advanced ripoff) of something that already has sustained value?

I won't comment on how you put all the alternatives into the same 'scam' category, but the bolded statement is surprising. Have you checked the charts recently? What has sustained value, Bitcoin? Seriously? Sure it did for you if you purchased or mined it back a few years ago, not so much for all the recent bag holders.

[raskul]

So... why on earth would you advise anyone to invest in anything which is simply a rip-off (or an advanced ripoff) of something that already has sustained value?

I won't comment on how you put all the alternatives into the same 'scam' category, but the bolded statement is surprising. Have you checked the charts recently? What has sustained value, Bitcoin? Seriously? Sure it did for you if you purchased or mined it back a few years ago, bot so much for all the recent bag holders.

1 digital (with no physical entity) bitcoin is currently worth ~$370.
quite an astonishing accomplishment is you ask me.

you were clearly expecting more?

[devphp]

1 digital (with no physical entity) bitcoin is currently worth ~$370.
quite an astonishing accomplishment is you ask me.

you were clearly expecting more?

You stressed that it sustains value, but no it doesn't. We're not talking about short term accomplishments. 'Sustain value' has a long term connotation, what you said about sustained value is simply not true.

[raskul]

1 digital (with no physical entity) bitcoin is currently worth ~$370.
quite an astonishing accomplishment is you ask me.

you were clearly expecting more?

You stressed that it sustains value, but no it doesn't. We're not talking about short term accomplishments. 'Sustain value' has a long term connotation, what you said about sustained value is simply not true.

No, then I might have said 'sustains long term value'

However, neither did i say, 'sustains short term value'

i said: 'already has sustained value'

see the median (where the two white lines cross) - what I am saying is that's pretty good for the price of something which has no physical entity, and that bitcoin has sustained 'a' value since it's inception. I hope this clears up the meaning of 'sustains value'


ADD; median = 11th January 2015 @ $342 per 1BTC

[devphp]

Your play on words is no consolation to bag holders who bought near the peak, and for them Bitcoin hasn't sustained value at all.

It either sustains value for everyone, or it doesn't and can be grouped into the same 'scam' category.

However, grouping it into the same 'scam' category would reveal absence of knowledge whatsoever on the subject of money, just like your grouping of all Bitcoin alternatives into the same 'scam' category based on the fact that Bitcoin has achieved the current $370 price and others haven't yet, totally ignoring utility value of the alternatives, reveals this absence of knowledge, blind religious faith, vested miner interests, or some combination of all three.

[raskul]

Your play on words

'your' misquoting my words, actually

is no consolation to bag holders who bought near the peak, and for them Bitcoin hasn't sustained value at all.

i'm not on this earth to console anyone, neither am i interested in what prices anyone buys BTC at.

It either sustains value for everyone, or it doesn't and can be grouped into the same 'scam' category.

please give an example of any commodity which has 'held value for everyone who bought it' - your remark is ludicrous and shows your immaturity where trading is concerned. I wouldn't trust you with £1.

However, grouping it into the same 'scam' category would reveal absence of knowledge whatsoever on the subject of money, just like your grouping of all Bitcoin alternatives into the same 'scam' category based on the fact that Bitcoin has achieved the current $370 price and others haven't yet, totally ignoring utility value of the alternatives, reveals this absence of knowledge, blind religious faith, vested miner interests, or some combination of all three.

personal attacks based on the fact I have a differing opinion, shows your immaturity. I am merely giving constructive comment towards your thread.
You don't have to like my ideas, but please, refrain from personal abuse in your arguments.

[devphp]

please give an example of any commodity which has 'held value for everyone who bought it' - your remark is ludicrous and shows your immaturity where trading is concerned. I wouldn't trust you with £1.

I never claimed there is any commodity that can hold value for everyone who bought it. It was you who claimed that Bitcoin has sustained value, I just showed you that it didn't, not for everyone, that's why many people have proof that it doesn't sustain value. While you may have proof that it does sustain value, it's only your subjective experience, and it is no proof at all to those bag holders who have experienced the opposite.

personal attacks based on the fact I have a differing opinion, shows your immaturity. I am merely giving constructive comment towards your thread.
You don't have to like my ideas, but please, refrain from personal abuse in your arguments.

You haven't given any constructive comment yet. All you said is there is Bitcoin which sustains value (which it doesn't as I said above) and the rest are scam coins. What's constructive about this? You haven't presented any proof of your statement, just your personal experience, which has nothing to do with objective (as in everyone's combined personal experiences, not just your own) reality.

[raskul]

I never claimed there is any commodity that can hold value for everyone who bought it.

It either sustains value for everyone, or it doesn't and can be grouped into the same 'scam' category.

  like.. Brent Crude Oil?

[devphp]

No, oil doesn't qualify, although it can be said it is more stable than Bitcoin, but you wouldn't want to sustain value with oil, unless you can buy and keep yourself a personal tanker )

[raskul]

No, oil doesn't qualify, although it can be said it is more stable than Bitcoin, but you wouldn't want to sustain value with oil, unless you can buy and keep yourself a personal tanker )

sorry, you are wrong.
you can buy and sell oil in the exact same way that you can buy and sell bitcoin.

I am sure there are people who bought in oil at $110 per barrel. today it is ~$85 per barrel.
so, in your hypothesis  :

It either sustains value for everyone, or it doesn't and can be grouped into the same 'scam' category.

the same applies to oil.
I am pointing out that you continually contradict yourself, and am not correlating the price of oil with the price of bitcoin (before you begin that argument).

If you bought into bitcoin at $1000, then that was your free minded choice to do so.
If you sold out lower than you bought, then that also, was your free minded choice to do so.

just, don't expect people to believe that it was Bitcoins fault that you lost money, it wasn't.

anyway, it's been fun debating this with you. i have things to do. so i'll bid you good luck on your endeavours, whatever they may be.

[jonoiv]

But it's not the tipping point after which it grows exponentially, no. It's the tipping point where people start fleeing it en masse to other technologies and undervalued cryptos. After all, why would you buy Bitcoin if you can buy something cheaper, which does the same, or even better - if you can buy something cheaper which does the same and then a few other things. Bitcoin was the bootstrapping crypto, now is the time for other technologies to take its place. It won't happen overnight, but the process has begun.

why would you buy dollars when you can buy Zimbabwe dollars cheaper?

does the same thing right?

[devphp]

No, oil doesn't qualify, although it can be said it is more stable than Bitcoin, but you wouldn't want to sustain value with oil, unless you can buy and keep yourself a personal tanker )

sorry, you are wrong.
you can buy and sell oil in the exact same way that you can buy and sell bitcoin.

I am sure there are people who bought in oil at $110 per barrel. today it is ~$85 per barrel.
so, in your hypothesis  :

It either sustains value for everyone, or it doesn't and can be grouped into the same 'scam' category.

the same applies to oil.
I am pointing out that you continually contradict yourself, and am not correlating the price of oil with the price of bitcoin (before you begin that argument).

If you bought into bitcoin at $1000, then that was your free minded choice to do so.
If you sold out lower than you bought, then that also, was your free minded choice to do so.

just, don't expect people to believe that it was Bitcoins fault that you lost money, it wasn't.

anyway, it's been fun debating this with you. i have things to do. so i'll bid you good luck on your endeavours, whatever they may be.

You can still use oil even though its price dropped to zero, but you can't use a crypto currency if its price goes to zero - crypto currencies have no intrinsic value. Oil does have intrinsic value and hence it can't be termed as scam even if it drops in price for some unlucky buyers, at least they can burn it to heat their house or something. That's why you can't compare crypto currencies with real commodities: cryptos (all of them with no exception) have this 'artificial' value that comes from use cases people invent for them, whereas oil has a 'built-in' use case AKA intrinsic value. Hence there is no contradiction here at all, you can't compare apples to oranges.

Have a nice day.

[devphp]

But it's not the tipping point after which it grows exponentially, no. It's the tipping point where people start fleeing it en masse to other technologies and undervalued cryptos. After all, why would you buy Bitcoin if you can buy something cheaper, which does the same, or even better - if you can buy something cheaper which does the same and then a few other things. Bitcoin was the bootstrapping crypto, now is the time for other technologies to take its place. It won't happen overnight, but the process has begun.

why would you buy dollars when you can buy Zimbabwe dollars cheaper?

does the same thing right?

Cheaper is just part of the argument (see: a few other things). Then again Zimbabwe dollar doesn't do the same (doesn't have as many use cases) as USD, that comparison is completely invalid.

[raskul]

No, oil doesn't qualify, although it can be said it is more stable than Bitcoin, but you wouldn't want to sustain value with oil, unless you can buy and keep yourself a personal tanker )

sorry, you are wrong.
you can buy and sell oil in the exact same way that you can buy and sell bitcoin.

I am sure there are people who bought in oil at $110 per barrel. today it is ~$85 per barrel.
so, in your hypothesis  :

It either sustains value for everyone, or it doesn't and can be grouped into the same 'scam' category.

the same applies to oil.
I am pointing out that you continually contradict yourself, and am not correlating the price of oil with the price of bitcoin (before you begin that argument).

If you bought into bitcoin at $1000, then that was your free minded choice to do so.
If you sold out lower than you bought, then that also, was your free minded choice to do so.

just, don't expect people to believe that it was Bitcoins fault that you lost money, it wasn't.

anyway, it's been fun debating this with you. i have things to do. so i'll bid you good luck on your endeavours, whatever they may be.

You can still use oil even though its price dropped to zero, but you can't use a crypto currency if its price goes to zero - crypto currencies have no intrinsic value. Oil does have intrinsic value and hence it can't be termed as scam even if it drops in price for some unlucky buyers, at least they can burn it to heat their house or something. That's why you can't compare crypto currencies with real commodities: cryptos (all of them with no exception) have this 'artificial' value that comes from use cases people invent for them, whereas oil has a 'built-in' use case AKA intrinsic value. Hence there is no contradiction here at all, you can't compare apples to oranges.

Have a nice day.

you do realise you have come full circle to become in agreement with the point of my own argument, don't you?

[vipgelsi]

I like it to funny.

[devphp]

you do realise you have come full circle to become in agreement with the point of my own argument, don't you?

No, not at all. Your argument (if we can call that an argument, because to me it looked like an ungrounded statement) was that there is Bitcoin and the rest are scam coins. Is that what you say I have come to agreement with? I don't see how I have come to agreement with that. Sure, Bitcoin might have more use cases now than others at this time, however, that 'the rest are scam coins' statement reveals lack of thought. If you meant something else where I'm now in agreement with you, please be more clear.

[devphp]

What are your predictions for Christmas? Would miners dump bitcoins to buy gifts for their loved ones and thus would Bitcoin re-test the $300-275 level (which still has an over 50% chance to hold) this December? Price action and order books look like selling pressure is gradually mounting.

[raskul]

What are your predictions for Christmas? Would miners dump bitcoins to buy gifts for their loved ones and thus would Bitcoin re-test the $300-275 level (which still has an over 50% chance to hold) this December? Price action and order books look like selling pressure is gradually mounting.

€303.

[arieq]

Well, the higher the price doesn't make people think it should go back but give them more confidence. People in BTC area is crazy, there's no fair price of BTC since it is only a token

[LiberyOrDeath]

It has reached it a long time ago.

[e-coinomist]

What are your predictions for Christmas? Would miners dump bitcoins to buy gifts for their loved ones and thus would Bitcoin re-test the $300-275 level (which still has an over 50% chance to hold) this December? Price action and order books look like selling pressure is gradually mounting.

Why 50% chance? Any numbers to back that up?
Will test the $100 level but next spring season.

[hack_]

Every institution will reach a point in its existence where its primary function becomes self-preservation and perpetuation, instead of serving human need.

Perhaps my views are incorrect but this is how the BTC ruled crypto space appears to me now. Development of anything that does not directly benefit BTC and it's whales is both passively and actively discouraged. You can barely get a conversation going to discuss anything that offers an alternative.

[teknohog]

What are your predictions for Christmas? Would miners dump bitcoins to buy gifts for their loved ones and thus would Bitcoin re-test the $300-275 level (which still has an over 50% chance to hold) this December? Price action and order books look like selling pressure is gradually mounting.

€303.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6eIBE7Bo3U

[xcapator]

Just hold guys, ignore the dip to $300 last month, it's just manipulation! Don't feed the whales and help the bitcoin economy, ignore the easy profit, holding long time will also make you money

[HCLivess]

I think bitcoin will worth 1200$ within 1 month.

Should be in 15 days according to Bank of America 

[Daedelus]

I disagree with a lot being said here. Bitcoins are still more useful than other crypto currencies due to its usability and higher price actually. Someone mentioned why use Bitcoin if we can get other cryptos for cheaper and still have the same usability. Well, first off, most other cryptos do not have the same usability on a practical level (forget the anonymity and other shenanigans for a moment). Major corporations are accepting them and the higher price makes it more practical. Unless you call practical using 1,000,000 crypto coins to pay for a can of soda. Also, there you go again, mentioning cheaper. Why does that matter? Everyone just wants to profit, but forget that. Look at it like a currency if you want Bitcoins, or any crypto to move far.

Bitcoins are at a very low point right now, price wise, not necessarily momentum wise if you look at the big picture.

Just because 1 Bitcoin is not worth what it used to be worth is not a bad thing. If it stabilized at $200, that would be fine by me and this consistent price further ensures usability and practicality to the masses whether its for purchasing items, or using it as an investment to store money.

I do not think that all other cryptos are silly, some have good value, and by some, I mean 2-4 of them.

Just my two cents.

Bitcoin is not useful to common folks and that's what counts. Crypto currencies need to find unique use cases to generate demand to be successful. Major corporations accepting them? There are not so many yet and all that serves is to milk the Bitcoin ecosystem for fiat, the price drops as a result. The right approach would be to make it a closed loop where Bitcoins that merchants accept for goods and services are used by them to pay back their suppliers, but no, this is not happening. Bitcoins are swapped for fiat immediately, this fiat leakage needs to be fixed before this ecosystem has a chance to be as dominating the world as some dream it should be.

Bitcoin still has to test below $300 again as mentioned a few posts above, and if that holds, that could be the low in this bear market. It can't go above $500 before it re-tests and doesn't break the below $300 (~$275) target it reached in October.

What is your plan if this bear market is to continue another 12 months?

Seems devphp was right. Bitcoin's tipping point was reach, $275 was tested and destroyed.

I never knew his reasoning for his prediction of a bear market until Oct 15 (I vaguely think it was due to anticipated fiat crisis, problems for a nation rolling over debt perhaps?). Shame devphp isn't around any more really.

[hack_]

seems we are back to the 2013 situation

[e-coinomist]

seems we are back to the 2013 situation

seems we are fast forwards to the 2015 situation

[gnargnar]

Bitcoin is not useful to common folks and that's what counts. Crypto currencies need to find unique use cases to generate demand to be successful. Major corporations accepting them? There are not so many yet and all that serves is to milk the Bitcoin ecosystem for fiat, the price drops as a result. The right approach would be to make it a closed loop where Bitcoins that merchants accept for goods and services are used by them to pay back their suppliers, but no, this is not happening. Bitcoins are swapped for fiat immediately, this fiat leakage needs to be fixed before this ecosystem has a chance to be as dominating the world as some dream it should be.

quoted for wow! spot on

[okbit]

Every institution will reach a point in its existence where its primary function becomes self-preservation and perpetuation, instead of serving human need.

Perhaps my views are incorrect but this is how the BTC ruled crypto space appears to me now. Development of anything that does not directly benefit BTC and it's whales is both passively and actively discouraged. You can barely get a conversation going to discuss anything that offers an alternative.

I agree with one exception. You are right that all the so called "innovation" coins don't add enough value to make them significant. But I do think there will be a few niche coins like Doge, AppleByte, Gulden that will do well in their niche and will actually lead more people to bitcoin.

[JayJuanGee]

The tipping point seems to be more apparent now, after 12 months of downward price pressures, and nearly another 12 months of fairly flat with plenty of ongoing BTC infrastructure developments in the meantime.