Findingnemo: FortuneJack just proved with this screenshot that my 0.0672 BTC stake was not returned.
Whether this was a technical error or not, you have no right to keep my stake and it is 100% against the TOC.
So at the very least, please return my 0.0672 BTC stake back.
Thank you very much,
EpicChamp
If I Understood it correctly the amount 0.0672 was created due to the technical error on their side but later it was nullified. Means you got only 0.0672 left in your wallet and which you already withdrew it to your wallet so there is no BTC left on stake and this is what FJ wanted you to understand.
@FJ only this user has faced such kind of bugs with wallet balance or many others? Because I don't find any similar case in that time frame.
No, I did not get it in my wallet so I could never have withdrawn it. I only withdrew the 50% partial cashout that I
took out myself for 0.13974 BTC. This means that the remaining ~0.14 BTC (disguised as a stake of 0.0672 BTC @ 2.6 odds) was left open for this match to be played out.
I could have also cashed out in full for 0.2687 BTC and instantly profited ~0.13 BTC, but I decided to let the other 50% play out for the match at better returns (2.6 vs ~2.1) assuming the player who I bet on wins the match.
It is not my fault that they themselves gave me this option and allowed me to do this, and I should not be losing thousands of dollars because of their "mistake". Especially because at this point, it was
100% within their control because it's
their site, and they decided to give me this option.
Many other sites never allow any partial cashouts to be made after placing a bet (like Cloudbet or Nitrogen for example), so while they can blame betrader for giving them the "wrong" odds initially, they
cannot blame them for giving me this option to cashout for the amounts I mentioned on
their site. Therefore, FortuneJack needs to take full responsibility for giving me this option and at the very least, return my stake in full if they decided to cancel my bet.
(And quite frankly, this shouldn't even be the main discussion because my whole point is that my bet should never have been canceled in the 1st place, as 80%+ of members here agree with me as well - but this is a non-negotiable)
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To clarify what we mean by giving the initial deposit back.
Your entire deposit was used as a stake for the bet which got refunded in full.
While you keep mentioning 0.0672 BTC as your stake doesn't make sense at all, as it was coming from the standpoint of the odd bug you utilized. Nothing was kept on our end, as shown into the screenshot, the balance was annulled and corrected to the amount you owned.
I believe that any casino representative would agree with me, we are not able to issue a winning or a stake generated with a bug happening within the system. The stake of 0.0672 BTC was obtained by utilizing a technical error and that's the reason why we are unable to consider crediting neither a winning nor stake as a relevant. Please stop arguing whether it was a bug or not, because we've already provided the proofs from the provider underlying the issue in detail.
We, of course, realize the importance of the situation and not even thinking a second about blaming the player. Despite everything and our positive attitude to the user, we have to strictly follow our rules this is the only way we can deal with the case. As there have been a bunch of similar cases in the past and all of them have been solved this exact way.
Player has already received the stake he used for his first bet plus the correction of the crypto price improvement within the timeframe. On top of that, we've offered him a 25% of the initial deposit back as an appreciation from the casino. I'm afraid this is the maximum we can do in this case. Sorry once again for the inconvenia ence but the decision is final and considered entirely fair.
1. If you knew this was such a clear bug & technical error, why did you not write it in the bet cancellation email? In the email, you only stated that you canceled the bet because odds dropped from 2.6 to 1.7 - nothing about a technical error was mentioned by you.
This is a reasonable change of odds that happens quite a lot in many sports due to various reasons & factors. So if this was your main reason, then that's what you should have explained in the email,
but you didn't. And now you are changing your reasoning and making something else up that doesn't match or align with what you wrote to me originally.
2. Let me remind you once again that according to the option you've
voluntarily given me, I could have easily & instantly withdrawn
0.268 BTC with a click of a button the night before the match. Had I done that, the extra ~0.13 BTC would have came out of
your pocket and you were willingly giving it away had I taken you up on that offer. So please don't say that you cannot issue my 0.067 BTC back when at the time, you were willing to instantly issue me
up to 0.268 BTC if I decided to cash out my bet in full.
3. Every other gambling site had a "similar" situation with the exact same match on the same day, and all of them rewarded all their users their winnings if they bet on De Jong, and no bets were canceled for anyone in this match.
Don't you find it very strange that you are the
only bookie that decided to cancel this bet, ONLY for those who bet on him at 2.6+ odds (and not for others, which is not allowed to do since it has to be universal for everyone), right before the match was about to start? Do you think this is fair or normal in any way? Because I have NEVER seen or heard this ever happen before.
There is a
reason no other bookie canceled it for their users, because it doesn't make any sense and is not the user's fault if a "mistake" was made on the bookie's side. I do not believe this was a technical error at all,
especially when all other bookies had exactly the same odds at the same exact time as you - meaning it was a universal decision amongst all bookies and there was no "obvious" or clear mistake by anyone at all.
You then made it official and kept it live on your site for
2-3 hours which is a very long time. If this really was such an obvious mistake you would not have kept it at these odds for this long, and would have changed odds right away (as it is always done when there is a technical error),
but you didn't. Instead, you kept slowly dropping it without any major changes. This doesn't sound
anything like a technical error, like one where a player who is a clear favorite was accidentally posted at 5.0+ when he was intended to be under 1.2 (or something of such nature).
I also cannot count the number of times I thought play A is going to beat player B because in my eyes he was the better player, and bookies made player A a smaller favorite at 3.0+ odds, which I have bet on many times in the past where sometimes odds stayed the same and sometimes there was a big change in odds - but
my bet was NEVER canceled because the odds changed.
4. As I mentioned previously, this case is no different to a situation where you bet let's say $1,000 on an underdog player to win a tennis match at 3.5 odds, then the match gets played out, and this player wins the 1st set and then has a big lead in the 2nd set. At this point, he's not longer at 3.5 odds to win, but rather 1.2. Then the bookie decided to offer the player an option to cash out for 2.5k if he does it before the match ends, which means $1k less in earnings for him and $1k less in losses for the bookie if he accepts this option.
And let's say the bettor doesn't want to take a big risk and wait until the match finishes, and opts in to withdraw 2.5k instead of being in a very good position to win 3.5k, but at least it's guaranteed to win a lot of money on the spot. So he decides to accept and not risk potentially losing that 2.5k if his player chokes & ends up losing. Ultimately, this is a win-win situation since the bettor secured a big win (despite missing out on more gains), and the bookie saved $1k in losses.
In my situation, FortuneJack realized they no longer had as good of a chance to win this bet against me as they initially thought they would, so to minimize their losses they offered me a chance to cash out any % I wanted at ~1.92 odds (0.2687/0.14), instead of me waiting for the next day to potentially win at 2.6 odds.
This makes perfect sense and creates a win-win situation for both of us, and has absolutely
nothing to do with any technical mistakes, or else they wouldn't give me this option and would have canceled my bet in full
right away, not 2 hours before the match is about to start,
However, what FortuneJack did is 5x worse. They realized they were likely going to lose the bet since odds changed against them, so right before the start of the match they decided to bend the rules and cancel my bet to
eliminate ANY risk they had of losing 0.174 BTC, and then they had the audacity to keep my entire stake to themselves as well instead of returning it back to me.
I'm sorry but you're NOT ALLOWED to do that! Not only is this morally & ethically wrong, but it's also against the rules. You cannot just cancel a bet because you feel like it or because the odds changed against your favor. That's not how it works and other bookies haven't canceled it for their users either. That is complete
burglary and yet here they are trying to play the innocent victims,
knowing that what they did is 100% wrong and not allowed.
Like I understand if you made a mistake, but we all make mistakes and they all come with some consequences. If you made a mistake on your end that had nothing to do with me & isn't my fault, then you need to own up to it and pay for making such mistake. The same way every time I make a mistake when I bet in sports and lose a lot of bets, it's no different and you are accountable for the same standards.
I hope you & everyone else now realize and better understands why I believe this is only fair and why I deserve to not only receive my full stake back, but more importantly win the full amount of the bet.
I am surprised that this issue has still not been resolved. Surely this should be arranged like this for a company like Fortunejack? It is only a small amount that matters.
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We do try our best to have it resolved.
The OP continues to make us credit the win and a stake generated within the bug. It would not be fair in any way. As mentioned above, we've had quite a few similar scenarios in the past, where a huge amount of wins were generated while system having the technical issue and all of them have been solved by giving the deposit/bet back + rewarding the player as an appreciation.
Unfortunately, EpicChamp doesn't accept the offer and keeps spamming the thread without any context or proofs provided.
UPDATE:
The amount itself doesn't matter by any means - the crucial thing for us is to treat all the players evenly. Would it be fair if we credited the stake and a win back to the user and not to the ones who had the same issue back in the past? I think that's a thing that needs to be addressed. By reading this entire case, everyone can see him shilling out pure nonsense without having an appreciation and a willingness to get the issue solved.
did not issue my initial amount back
yourself, I partially cashed it out
MYSELF the day before when
you gave me the option to do so - there is a big difference. And then after I cashed it out, I still had 50% left at 0.067 BTC (that I could have instead cashed out for an extra 0.13 BTC if I wanted to, instead of risking it for a chance to win 0.174 BTC).
To YOU this may not "feel" fair to pay me because you keep pointing fingers at and blaming betrader for everything, but at the end of the day it is YOUR site and it is 100% your responsibility for everything that happens on your site. You left the lines initially open for 2-3 hours without any major changes (instead of changing it right away if this was such an "obvious" mistake), and then YOU gave me the option to cash out my bet for whatever % I wanted for a guaranteed ~2.0 profits (instead of waiting for the next day and potentially
losing a greater amount at 2.6 if my player wins). It makes perfect sense to me and is
100% fair. If anything, you should
thank me because I did you a nice favor and saved you
0.05-0.1 BTC that you would have normally lost
had I not cashed out anything at all and this bet was never canceled & played out in full to begin with (as it should have been the case).
If you made a "mistake" then you have to face the consequences & pay for your mistakes just like with anything in life (much like I always pay for my betting mistakes too). Please stop playing the victim and start taking responsibility for a mistake that was made on
your end. Whether it is your fault or betrader's, I don't care. To me, you are both equally responsible for this "mistake". It is not my fault that I got in at odds that I thought made sense for me at the time, and
I should not be the one who has to lose thousands of dollars because of a mistake that was made on YOUR end.
That is not fair to me in any way whatsoever, not only to miss out on the winning bet, but even worse to not receive my stake back.
And if you really want to play the victim and not take
any responsibility for what happened, then you should definetely approach and have a long conversation with betrader and get THEM to pay me instead, since according to you it was "their" mistake. I don't care who does it, but
one of you has to pay me for a mistake that was made on your side. Especially considering that all other bookies did so as well without complaining about anything or canceling the bet right before the match was about to start. And I expect you and every other bookie to do the same thing to honor fair play.
So if anything, how is that fair to
ME that right now I have to lose my 0.067 BTC stake (that you yourself allowed me to have), and then miss out on winning 0.174 BTC when this bet should never have been canceled in the first place? It is not MY mistake at all and I do not by any means deserve to get penalized for this and lose thousands of dollars because of a mistake that was made on your end.
What frustrates me the most is that I chose the right player to win, and then you unjustifiably canceled my bet and are not returning back my stake - in other words counting my bet as if it was a
LOSS after having chosen the right player to win. To me, it crosses all boundaries and is completely unacceptable.
You need to show respect to your users, take responsibility for any mistake that was made on your end (especially since it wasn't even a
major mistake like posting De Jong at 5.0+ odds instead of 1.15 like he was intended to for example), and honor my bet as a fully deserved win (or at the bare minimum return my stake back).
It is the only right, fair & noble thing to do in this situation, and I would greatly appreciate your cooperation.
Thank you very much,
EpicChamp
P.S. I still don't understand what kind of "proof" or context you want me to show or share with everyone. Be more specific with what you want me to show and I'll be happy to clarify + provide it.
P.P.S. I appreciate your 25% offer, but I believe it should be a bit higher than that.
And as I mentioned earlier, if you don't want to pay me out of your pocket because you feel like it isn't fair or isn't your fault - then
betrader should pay for it instead. But bottom line is that a mistake was made on your end and someone has to pay for it, I should not have to suffer because of this and lose thousands of dollars when I didn't do anything wrong at all and did everything in accordance to your rules.
So I don't really see a problem with what FJ did here. The wording is a bit weird, but at the time of the cashout, that part of this specific bet was settled in error. I do have a problem with FJ accusing this guy of exploiting a bug. He didn't exploit a bug. He used the system as it was designed. The fact that this situation is even discussed in FJ's policies indicates that this is a situation that they are aware of and have a plan for, it is not a bug.
You explained EpicChamp's situation brilliantly. The problem here is that FJ is not entirely at fault here, but it's tough to explain that to EpicChamp since he deserved the full winnings. Cashing out early caused this mess.
The silver lining here is that he received a decent portion of his stake back which is why it's best for him to move on and FJ needs to sort out these issues asap in order to avoid similar incidents in the future.
So you're saying that if I DIDN'T cash anything out, it would have made a difference?
What if I cashed out & withdrew 0.18 BTC, or 0.1 BTC, or nothing at all?
The point is that the withdrawal amount or % doesn't matter, the bottom line is it doesn't make it any right for FJ to cancel this bet due to countless of reasons. But regardless what amount I cash out, the remaining stake
must be returned in full at all times.
(
Change of odds is normal in tennis + other sports and bets never get canceled because of that, their
"technical" error reason is
not mentioned anywhere
in the original email they sent me so their explanation does not align to what they claimed initially, and as social proof -
other bookies for this match have
awarded their users the full amount considering the same situation & swing of odds, amongst many other reasons)
And this is ultimately what I'm trying to prove & argue for. FJ should have never canceled my bet to begin with because their reasoning & explanation is not justifiable, esp when other bookies haven't canceled it for their users either - whether those users won or lost their bet (depending on who they bet on). But the point is this bet was never canceled for anyone across the gambling industry except for me which just doesn't make any sense.
Not to mention - how is it fair that they canceled this bet
only for me and not for another user(s) on their site who bet on the same match? Bet cancelations must be universal either for everyone or for no one, and most definitely not based on individual odds at the time of the bet.
What they did is just so wrong in so many ways that I am still shocked and cannot believe it actually happened to me like this, and now I get to suffer and lose so much money because of that.
[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]
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