Bitcoin Forum
August 21, 2018, 07:03:09 AM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.16.2  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 9 10 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: [2014-09-18] Bitcoin Core Developer Jeff Garzik Believes NXT is a “Scamcoin”  (Read 10695 times)
Sukrim
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2394
Merit: 1002


View Profile
September 25, 2014, 09:43:42 AM
 #81

The more interesting part is that people get upset because NXT is called a scam with a list of reasons, yet people only discuss if it should be called scam or not, not if the reasons are correct or not.

https://www.coinlend.org <-- automated lending at various exchanges. No fees(!).
Mail me at Bitmessage: BM-BbiHiVv5qh858ULsyRDtpRrG9WjXN3xf
1534834989
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1534834989

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1534834989
Reply with quote  #2

1534834989
Report to moderator
1534834989
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1534834989

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1534834989
Reply with quote  #2

1534834989
Report to moderator
Bitcoin mining is now a specialized and very risky industry, just like gold mining. Amateur miners are unlikely to make much money, and may even lose money. Bitcoin is much more than just mining, though!
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1534834989
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1534834989

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1534834989
Reply with quote  #2

1534834989
Report to moderator
1534834989
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1534834989

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1534834989
Reply with quote  #2

1534834989
Report to moderator
1534834989
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1534834989

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1534834989
Reply with quote  #2

1534834989
Report to moderator
superresistant
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1890
Merit: 1071



View Profile
September 25, 2014, 10:04:06 AM
 #82

The more interesting part is that people get upset because NXT is called a scam with a list of reasons, yet people only discuss if it should be called scam or not, not if the reasons are correct or not.

The problem is that people use words that have different/opposite definitions.

In the case of Nxt, if you call it a scam, define scam first.

devphp
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 336
Merit: 250


View Profile
September 25, 2014, 10:17:32 AM
 #83

The more interesting part is that people get upset because NXT is called a scam with a list of reasons, yet people only discuss if it should be called scam or not, not if the reasons are correct or not.

The thing is those who call NXT a scam don't know how to discuss, because they haven't read the whitepaper. And when someone asks them to prove their point, having no technical knowledge on how things operate, they repeat 'scam, scam' or roll around the old Nothing-at-stake argument which is not even relevant for NXT implementation of PoS, as this term was coined for Peercoin's PoS, which is a completely different PoS algo. They just bunch together all different implementations of PoS and call it scam without giving it any thought, you can't even come close to discussing reasons with these people Smiley
Sukrim
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2394
Merit: 1002


View Profile
September 25, 2014, 10:48:19 AM
 #84

Again, here are Jeff's arguments:
Quote
It is marketed like a scammy penny stock.

Anon early super large stakeholders + Proof-Of-Stake == the big guys run the table, if they choose. https://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/pos.pdf  The central bankers are in place from Day One unless they are super-virtuous and give tons away “fairly.”

Anonymous developers

Closed developing process.  Source is periodically handed down from the ivory tower to the masses.

Certain notable personages (& key stakeholders) that dodge, dodge, dodge, when an obvious attack vector — mitigated in other crypto-finance projects by known techniques — is highlighted.

Active resistance to making it easier to independently reproduce the software

Technical criticism is routinely met with bizarre behavior (notably from come-from-beyond)

Attacking critics, rather than responding to criticism.

Several security incidents that smell like inside jobs.
Except for the early stakeholders + PoS thingie, most of them are NOT towards the technology but more the developers or community.

https://www.coinlend.org <-- automated lending at various exchanges. No fees(!).
Mail me at Bitmessage: BM-BbiHiVv5qh858ULsyRDtpRrG9WjXN3xf
devphp
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 336
Merit: 250


View Profile
September 25, 2014, 10:52:07 AM
 #85

Exactly, most of them have nothing to do with technology. If it has nothng to do with technology, then it's just a personal dislike for how things look, personal = subjective. There are thousands of users who obviously like how things look and don't have a problem with all those listed issues. It would be more natural for Jeff to argue on the basis of technical merits or faults, as he is also a software engineer.
arnuschky
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 516
Merit: 500


View Profile
September 25, 2014, 11:42:07 AM
 #86

Lots of misinformation here.  NXT is not a clone of Bitcoin, it was written from scratch using java + javascript and has almost nothing in common with Bitcoin aside from the general concept of using a blockchain.

How is this blockchain secured, if not by mining? (honest question)
toknormal
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1708
Merit: 1110


View Profile
September 25, 2014, 11:44:20 AM
 #87

The more interesting part is that people get upset because NXT is called a scam with a list of reasons, yet people only discuss if it should be called scam or not, not if the reasons are correct or not.

Just because NxT might make a few people a lot of money doesn't make it a scam.

The market will distribute it. The "scam" accusation has long been debunked - by the market no less.

It's a good coin with one of the strongest, most active and creative followings in the entire cryptocurrency economy and it ain't going away anytime soon.

All of these things are relative anyway - there isn't one single criticism that the crypto community have made of NxT that the wider world wouldn't justifiably make of crypto in general. "Centralised", "all owned by a few big holders", "overvalued"....the entire market fits this bill so everyone should just stfu and stop being so hypocritical because the mud slinging's coming to a coin near you soon.
superresistant
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1890
Merit: 1071



View Profile
September 25, 2014, 11:45:18 AM
 #88

Lots of misinformation here.  NXT is not a clone of Bitcoin, it was written from scratch using java + javascript and has almost nothing in common with Bitcoin aside from the general concept of using a blockchain.
How is this blockchain secured, if not by mining? (honest question)

Please, if you never heard about Proof-of-Work and Proof-of-Stake, use google.
It is quite long to explain.
ShroomsKit_Disgrace
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 952
Merit: 1000

Yeah! I hate ShroomsKit!


View Profile
September 25, 2014, 01:04:21 PM
 #89

Again, here are Jeff's arguments:
Quote
It is marketed like a scammy penny stock.

Anon early super large stakeholders + Proof-Of-Stake == the big guys run the table, if they choose. https://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/pos.pdf  The central bankers are in place from Day One unless they are super-virtuous and give tons away “fairly.”

Anonymous developers

Closed developing process.  Source is periodically handed down from the ivory tower to the masses.

Certain notable personages (& key stakeholders) that dodge, dodge, dodge, when an obvious attack vector — mitigated in other crypto-finance projects by known techniques — is highlighted.

Active resistance to making it easier to independently reproduce the software

Technical criticism is routinely met with bizarre behavior (notably from come-from-beyond)

Attacking critics, rather than responding to criticism.

Several security incidents that smell like inside jobs.
Except for the early stakeholders + PoS thingie, most of them are NOT towards the technology but more the developers or community.

Do I have to repost here this video?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3r8areoxqag

He answers all these question quite well in my opinion.
Sukrim
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2394
Merit: 1002


View Profile
September 25, 2014, 01:29:36 PM
 #90

Watching a 25 minute video instead of reading a blog post in 3 minutes? Sorry, this is the wrong medium. Feel free to post a transcript...

Also the audio is waaay down on that video, but that's a rather easy fix.

https://www.coinlend.org <-- automated lending at various exchanges. No fees(!).
Mail me at Bitmessage: BM-BbiHiVv5qh858ULsyRDtpRrG9WjXN3xf
arnuschky
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 516
Merit: 500


View Profile
September 25, 2014, 02:11:12 PM
 #91

Lots of misinformation here.  NXT is not a clone of Bitcoin, it was written from scratch using java + javascript and has almost nothing in common with Bitcoin aside from the general concept of using a blockchain.
How is this blockchain secured, if not by mining? (honest question)

Please, if you never heard about Proof-of-Work and Proof-of-Stake, use google.
It is quite long to explain.

Phrased my question wrong, sorry.
If NXT is not using PoW, do they use PoS or something else?
devphp
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 336
Merit: 250


View Profile
September 25, 2014, 02:15:26 PM
 #92

Phrased my question wrong, sorry.
If NXT is not using PoW, do they use PoS or something else?

PoS.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=787100.msg8928459#msg8928459
arnuschky
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 516
Merit: 500


View Profile
September 25, 2014, 02:39:15 PM
 #93

Phrased my question wrong, sorry.
If NXT is not using PoW, do they use PoS or something else?

PoS.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=787100.msg8928459#msg8928459

Thanks. I just looked it up as well. PoS, so they fail:

Quote
It is not well-advertised, but in fact there has never been an example of a cryptocur-
rency achieving distributed consensus by proof-of-stake. The prototypical proof-of-stake currency,
Peercoin, depends on developer signatures to determine block validity: that is, its consensus is not
distributed. The same fate has befallen other nominally-PoS currencies such as Blackcoin.
From https://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/alts.pdf

It even mentions NXT:
Quote
In its initial incarnation, NXT was susceptible to a trivial stake-grinding attack (to be described below)
and could not achieve any consensus. Since becoming closed-source while spamming technically-
illiterate claims at popular conferences, it has fallen out of scope of this document.
devphp
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 336
Merit: 250


View Profile
September 25, 2014, 02:42:54 PM
 #94

Quote

PoS implementation of NXT is a completely different algo than the PoS implementation of Blackcoin or Peercoin that this document refers to.
NXT is open-source and has been achieving distributed consensus for 10 months now Smiley
This document is irrelevant.
arnuschky
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 516
Merit: 500


View Profile
September 25, 2014, 03:48:53 PM
 #95

Quote

PoS implementation of NXT is a completely different algo than the PoS implementation of Blackcoin or Peercoin that this document refers to.
NXT is open-source and has been achieving distributed consensus for 10 months now Smiley
This document is irrelevant.

I doubt it: It's arguments haven't been refuted, as far as I can tell.
See also https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=770591
superresistant
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1890
Merit: 1071



View Profile
September 25, 2014, 03:55:02 PM
 #96

Quote

PoS implementation of NXT is a completely different algo than the PoS implementation of Blackcoin or Peercoin that this document refers to.
NXT is open-source and has been achieving distributed consensus for 10 months now Smiley
This document is irrelevant.

I doubt it: It's arguments haven't been refuted, as far as I can tell.
See also https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=770591

I confirm that the PoS of Nxt is unique and totally different from Blackcoin which is also totally different from Peercoin.
nutildah
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1134
Merit: 1045


:D


View Profile
September 25, 2014, 04:36:04 PM
 #97

Watching a 25 minute video instead of reading a blog post in 3 minutes? Sorry, this is the wrong medium. Feel free to post a transcript...

Also the audio is waaay down on that video, but that's a rather easy fix.

Ergo NXT is bad, right?

The BTC community's jealousy of NXT grows more palpable by the day.

Sukrim
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2394
Merit: 1002


View Profile
September 25, 2014, 05:28:57 PM
 #98

Watching a 25 minute video instead of reading a blog post in 3 minutes? Sorry, this is the wrong medium. Feel free to post a transcript...

Also the audio is waaay down on that video, but that's a rather easy fix.
Ergo NXT is bad, right?
No.

Ergo I'll continue to watch from the sidelines and use my time better than watch someone whispering into a MacBook for half an hour. I don't use NXT and have my reasons why, but I don't consider it "bad" or a "scam" for that matter.

https://www.coinlend.org <-- automated lending at various exchanges. No fees(!).
Mail me at Bitmessage: BM-BbiHiVv5qh858ULsyRDtpRrG9WjXN3xf
kodtycoon
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1064
Merit: 1002


ICOForums.net - A Cryptocurrency & ICO Forum


View Profile
September 25, 2014, 05:51:39 PM
 #99

Watching a 25 minute video instead of reading a blog post in 3 minutes? Sorry, this is the wrong medium. Feel free to post a transcript...

Also the audio is waaay down on that video, but that's a rather easy fix.
Ergo NXT is bad, right?
No.

Ergo I'll continue to watch from the sidelines and use my time better than watch someone whispering into a MacBook for half an hour. I don't use NXT and have my reasons why, but I don't consider it "bad" or a "scam" for that matter.
whats your reasons?


████████
██████████████
█████████████████
████████████████████
██████████████████████
████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
██████████████████████████
███████████████████████████
███████████████████████████
███████████████████████████
██████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
████████████████████████
██████████████████████
████████████████████
██████████████████
███████████████
███    ████████  
██         ████████
█         ████████

|
███
Activity Contest██████Promotion Contest██████ ̅ ̅ ̅ ̅ ̅ \
███
\___████ICO Review Contest███Signature Campaign
||
mczarnek
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 527
Merit: 500


View Profile
September 25, 2014, 09:22:30 PM
 #100

any non mineble currency is like fiat , it can be inflated forever and thats the problem.


I think you are thinking about Peercoin and most other POS implementations which pay forgers via a steady inflation rate.. with Nxt the only thing powering the network is transaction fees.  Meaning that the currency is capped and there will never be another Nxt created.. though they can be destroyed.  So no, Nxt is not inflationary.

BitSend ◢◤Clients | Source
www.bitsend.info
█▄
█████▄
████████▄
███████████▄
██████████████
███████████▀
████████▀
█████▀
█▀












Segwit | Core 0.14 | Masternodes
XEVAN | DK3 | Electrum soon
Bitcore - BTX/BTC -Project












BSD -USDT | Bittrex | C.Gather | S.Exchange
Cryptopia | NovaExchange | Livecoin
Litebit.eu | Faucet | Bitsend Airdrop













████
 ████
  ████
   ████
    ████
     ████
      ████
       ████
        ████
       ████
      ████
     ████
    ████
   ████
  ████
 ████
████

████
 ████
  ████
   ████
    ████
     ████
      ████
       ████
        ████
       ████
      ████
     ████
    ████
   ████
  ████
 ████
████
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 9 10 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!