Block Erupter Prisma (>=1.4 T/device, 0.75-0.78 W/G, <1 BTC/T, October Shipping)

[MrTeal]

To be fair to RoadStress, I used $180 PSUs in my calculations and the price of bitcoin is fixed at 500 USD/BTC. Also, 2000W wouldn't be enough to run 2 Prismas. I don't know whether those server PSUs have the necessary PCIe cables so I was hesitant to use them in the calculations.

Can you provide some links to those products (DPS-2000BB/breakout/cables) so people will know what to look for?

Why not use 400 USD/BTC as it is right now? Is your magic crystal ball letting you know that in 1 month the exchange rate will rise?

Ah, I see. Those are extremely poor numbers. The Prismas are a hair under $6000 right now, so that's factoring in $3250 for 10kW of power supply which is ridiculous. Even if you don't want to mess with server PSUs, you could go buy 10 well reviewed gold ATX supplies (RM1000/Capstone 1000M) for $1500 shipped from Newegg (plus tax, if you're unlucky).

Ok, with the updated numbers you will have an advantage of $1500 for all lifetime mining profits for buying AM Prismas vs 2xSP35 at the cost of needing a bigger electricity circuit.

Right. Assuming the Prismas' are $1500 cheaper and you'll mine ~$800 before the SP35 ships (start mining Oct 15th, end mining Nov 21st, 10c/kWh, 15% inc. per jump with a 5% lowering per jump), that gives you $2300 in hand with the Prismas vs the SP35.
From Nov 21st onward the difference in power is 11kW vs 7kW, so 4kW. There's 8760 hours in a year, so at 10c/kWhr it would take 2.62 years for the cost of powering the units to make up for the price differential.
At 15c/kWh, the numbers go down to 1.4 years of running before the difference in price is made up.
At 20c/kWh, don't bother. At the current price and next estimated difficulty (~35B), the network only has to increase 50% in size before you're at breakeven for power with $400/BTC which it very likely will be by the time you get your Prismas.

[1714876913]

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[1714876913]

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[Mabsark]

Static conditions, that will never apply. Difficulty will jump in 3 days and there is no immediate mining with the Prismas. So what you presented is only in your fantasy. It can't apply to the real world. So while they are not false, they are not applicable either. It's just an useless projection.

For crying out loud, you're not the brightest bulb are you? The conditions are not meant to be realistic, they're meant to remove all the variability so you can compare miners without having to guess at values. This provides you with base values which can then be modified based on your estimations of things like difficulty change.

What length of time are you looking for? I just gave you my projection for the first 2 months of mining.

Given a 1 month head start for the Prismas in which they made 1,764 USD (after power costs), how long would it take SP35s to overtake the Prisma in total mining profits? Show you're working as well.

After 60 days of mining, the 2 x SP35s would have made 4.6 * 12 * 60 = 3,312 USD = SPP. Because the Prisma set started mining 1 month earlier, it would have been mining for 3 months and made 4.2 * 14 * 90 = 5,292 USD = AMP.

How many days will it take for the condition SPP > AMP to be true?

Hint: If you use the numbers above, the gap will only widen because 4.6 * 12 < 4.2 * 14.

[jimmothy]

To be fair to RoadStress, I used $180 PSUs in my calculations and the price of bitcoin is fixed at 500 USD/BTC. Also, 2000W wouldn't be enough to run 2 Prismas. I don't know whether those server PSUs have the necessary PCIe cables so I was hesitant to use them in the calculations.

Can you provide some links to those products (DPS-2000BB/breakout/cables) so people will know what to look for?

Why not use 400 USD/BTC as it is right now? Is your magic crystal ball letting you know that in 1 month the exchange rate will rise?

Ah, I see. Those are extremely poor numbers. The Prismas are a hair under $6000 right now, so that's factoring in $3250 for 10kW of power supply which is ridiculous. Even if you don't want to mess with server PSUs, you could go buy 10 well reviewed gold ATX supplies (RM1000/Capstone 1000M) for $1500 shipped from Newegg (plus tax, if you're unlucky).

Ok, with the updated numbers you will have an advantage of $1500 for all lifetime mining profits for buying AM Prismas vs 2xSP35 at the cost of needing a bigger electricity circuit.

Right. Assuming the Prismas' are $1500 cheaper and you'll mine ~$800 before the SP35 ships (start mining Oct 15th, end mining Nov 21st, 10c/kWh, 15% inc. per jump with a 5% lowering per jump), that gives you $2300 in hand with the Prismas vs the SP35.
From Nov 21st onward the difference in power is 11kW vs 7kW, so 4kW. There's 8760 hours in a year, so at 10c/kWhr it would take 2.62 years for the cost of powering the units to make up for the price differential.
At 15c/kWh, the numbers go down to 1.4 years of running before the difference in price is made up.
At 20c/kWh, don't bother. At the current price and next estimated difficulty (~35B), the network only has to increase 50% in size before you're at breakeven for power with $400/BTC which it very likely will be by the time you get your Prismas.

I got slightly different numbers.

10 AM prismas = ~$7000/15TH
2.5 SP35 = $10,500/15TH

According to https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/calculator at 15% increase the AM Prismas will earn about 4btc before SP35 begins shipping. (if they start mining on November 1st)

So the $3500 cost difference + $1500 mined means the SP35 needs to recover $5000 in electricity savings to be a better deal.

2.5 sp35 is 8.75kw so it would save 2.25kw.

At $0.05/kwh the 2.5 sp35's would save $2.7/day and at that rate it would take more than 5 years to make up for the price difference.

[RoadStress]

Right. Assuming the Prismas' are $1500 cheaper and you'll mine ~$800 before the SP35 ships (start mining Oct 15th, end mining Nov 21st, 10c/kWh, 15% inc. per jump with a 5% lowering per jump), that gives you $2300 in hand with the Prismas vs the SP35.
From Nov 21st onward the difference in power is 11kW vs 7kW, so 4kW. There's 8760 hours in a year, so at 10c/kWhr it would take 2.62 years for the cost of powering the units to make up for the price differential.
At 15c/kWh, the numbers go down to 1.4 years of running before the difference in price is made up.
At 20c/kWh, don't bother. At the current price and next estimated difficulty (~35B), the network only has to increase 50% in size before you're at breakeven for power with $400/BTC which it very likely will be by the time you get your Prismas.

There is a small error on your post. The Prismas are not $1500 cheaper than 2xSP35. In my last post I wanted to say $1500 cheaper than Mabsark's price. The Prismas are only ~700$ cheaper than the 2xSP35 and with the ~$800 miner before SP35 ships that leaves only $1500 in hand which changes your calculations a bit.

But I appreciate your projection and I find it more honest than the other ones posted here. Thumbs up!

For crying out loud, you're not the brightest bulb are you? The conditions are not meant to be realistic, they're meant to remove all the variability so you can compare miners without having to guess at values. This provides you with base values which can then be modified based on your estimations of things like difficulty change.

Miners can't remove any variable when mining with equipment so your projection is useless. Why not use 10k$/BTC instead? It's not realistic, but it can definitely remove any discussion about ROI too. Mining IS a guessing game, but since you are not a miner you don't know that while being a shareholder all you need to focus is on pumping your company's products.

Given a 1 month head start for the Prismas in which they made 1,764 USD (after power costs), how long would it take SP35s to overtake the Prisma in total mining profits? Show you're working as well.

Please read MrTeal's above projection. AM Prismas will NOT mine $1,764 USD in their first month. That is a pure bullshit straight lie to all customers reading it coming straight from an AM shareholder.

I got slightly different numbers.

10 AM prismas = ~$7000/15TH
2.5 SP35 = $10,500/15TH

It seems that all AM shareholders like to be in a fantasy world instead of a real world. Having a 1/2 SP35 miner is impossible! Also 10 AM Prismas will NOT mine $1,500 in their first month! I am willing to bet 0.2 BTC on that! Care to take the bet and have someone who will buy prove it?

[Mabsark]

Re: the $500/BTC, we're all hoping but it seems rather sketchy to base the numbers on that since you can't order an SP35 using $500/BTC without a time machine.

That was actually a mistake, the fixed BTC price was only meant to apply to mining income. The initial purchase cost is meant to use the actual current BTC value. I'll fix that now, but I'll keep the $1800 for PSUs until more info becomes available.

I'll fix that now.

[MrTeal]

Right. Assuming the Prismas' are $1500 cheaper and you'll mine ~$800 before the SP35 ships (start mining Oct 15th, end mining Nov 21st, 10c/kWh, 15% inc. per jump with a 5% lowering per jump), that gives you $2300 in hand with the Prismas vs the SP35.
From Nov 21st onward the difference in power is 11kW vs 7kW, so 4kW. There's 8760 hours in a year, so at 10c/kWhr it would take 2.62 years for the cost of powering the units to make up for the price differential.
At 15c/kWh, the numbers go down to 1.4 years of running before the difference in price is made up.
At 20c/kWh, don't bother. At the current price and next estimated difficulty (~35B), the network only has to increase 50% in size before you're at breakeven for power with $400/BTC which it very likely will be by the time you get your Prismas.

I got slightly different numbers.

10 AM prismas = ~$7000/15TH
2.5 SP35 = $10,500/15TH

According to https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/calculator at 15% increase the AM Prismas will earn about 4btc before SP35 begins shipping. (if they start mining on November 1st)

So the $3500 cost difference + $1500 mined means the SP35 needs to recover $5000 in electricity savings to be a better deal.

2.5 sp35 is 8.75kw so it would save 2.25kw.

At $0.05/kwh the 2.5 sp35's would save $2.7/day and at that rate it would take more than 5 years to make up for the price difference.

In my numbers the AM Prismas (at 14TH/s) would earn 4.4BTC between Oct 15th (~1/3 of the way through their delivery window, coincidentally also an estimated diff change) and Nov 21st (1/3 of the way through the SP35 late November delivery window, also an estimated difficulty change). However, in those 37 days the Prismas would burn 11kW*24hrs*37days= 9768kWh of electricity, which you have to account for. At the 10c per kWh I was using, that's almost $1000 of electricity you need to pay for. Even at 5c, it's $500.

[hdbuck]

ffs roadstress and mabsark can you just bury the axe? let it be guys. bitcoin is magic.

[RoadStress]

ffs roadstress and mabsark can you just bury the axe? let it be guys. bitcoin is magic.

Hard to do it with an ongoing bet...

Bitcoin is magic internet money!

[stompysteve]

ffs roadstress and mabsark can you just bury the axe? let it be guys. bitcoin is magic.

Hard to do it with an ongoing bet...

Bitcoin is magic internet money!

well good for you the bet is on now plz stfu until it resolves.

Why should I stfu and not you?

Because you two are being complete bitches and cluttering AM's thread with BULLSHIT? Because you alone have 12 posts of the 70 posts in this thread yet you have contributed nothing? Because nobody really wants to hear more of your rambling? Because you sound like children measuring their tiny peckers?

The list goes on.

Here you go guys, discuss all you want

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=792766.0

[Finksy]

Are you an AM shareholder too? I would like to clarify that from the start.

Nope. Just a happy previous customer of AM that sifts through their product threads to find some actual information, only to find "rubbish."  Although in fairness I would probably be better off as a shareholder than a miner these days.

[Rival]

Raising up a strawman of ROI and then beating it to death does little to neither help people make informed decisions nor cast any confidence in your credibility. The chances of anything from anyone ever achieving ROI has dropped so significantly in the last few years that it appears almost unseemly to attempt to either convince people that a particular rig will, or conversely, that a particular rig will not.

Friedcat has stated that his goal is to put pressure on the profitability of other manufacturers. He may not be able to underprice everyone, but then again, he does not have to. His pricing structure is certainly competitive enough to cause a great deal of pain to a good number of his competition. China is still a huge market, and his new rigs are very cheap if you live in China. There are plenty of large scale mines there more than happy to put large amount of Phash of his chips to work immediately, increasing the difficulty even further and putting even more pressure on the competition.

[Finksy]

Fanboy Warfare is what this is.  I'll refrain from posting more until FC gives us something concrete, sorry to contribute to the drivel.

[Blazed]

So will these look like tubes or are they larger?  Do they come pre built?

[TheRealSteve]

So will these look like tubes or are they larger?

It takes the same cooling structure and similar form factor as the ASICMiner Tube

[Somekindabitcoin]

You guys go on complaining about ROI. Meanwhile, i'll ROI in 100 days even if the difficulty reaches 50,000,000,000

.03 cents per kwh : )

already got all the PSU's and power for 2 MW.

[seriouscoin]

You guys go on complaining about ROI. Meanwhile, i'll ROI in 100 days even if the difficulty reaches 50,000,000,000

.03 cents per kwh : )

already got all the PSU's and power for 2 MW.

Bitch, you got nothing on me. I'm paying 2.5cents and free cooling due to cold weather. 5MW capability. Go big or go home bitches.

[stompysteve]

could someone post or PM me their TX info for a purchase they made

thanks

[dogie]

You guys go on complaining about ROI. Meanwhile, i'll ROI in 100 days even if the difficulty reaches 50,000,000,000

.03 cents per kwh : )

already got all the PSU's and power for 2 MW.

Bitch, you got nothing on me. I'm paying 2.5cents and free cooling due to cold weather. 5MW capability. Go big or go home bitches.

...And I'm sitting here on 10KW of testing capacity @ 13c.

[klondike_bar]

So will these look like tubes or are they larger?

It takes the same cooling structure and similar form factor as the ASICMiner Tube

The chips could likely be placed much closer if the overall thermal distribution is the same.

[Somekindabitcoin]

You guys go on complaining about ROI. Meanwhile, i'll ROI in 100 days even if the difficulty reaches 50,000,000,000

.03 cents per kwh : )

already got all the PSU's and power for 2 MW.

Bitch, you got nothing on me. I'm paying 2.5cents and free cooling due to cold weather. 5MW capability. Go big or go home bitches.

...And I'm sitting here on 10KW of testing capacity @ 13c.

But you get mining equipment for writing because you're an I.T baws