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Author Topic: [VIDEO] New Animated Bitcoin Video! "Screw Banks" make it viral!  (Read 5926 times)
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May 08, 2012, 07:58:00 PM
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After many months of hard work and collaboration, today we are proud to release "Screw Banks".

http://screwbanks.net

Starring...the Vampire Squid, Jon Corzyne, a Bought Congress, PayPay, and a Colombian Hooker!  Check out this crazy cast of characters:

http://screwbanks.net/credits.html

it's a great video targeted towards people upset with the banking system, for one reason or another.

This video introduces people to bitcoin in a nice cartoon, focusing on usability, not on technicality.

Promote it on Facebook, Twitter, Digg, everywhere you can!!!

The video is inspired by

http://weusecoins.com
http://www.theamericandreamfilm.com
http://www.dylanratigan.com
http://maxkeiser.com

and many more.

This video was funded entirely with bitcoins!  including some bitcoin crowdfunding from http://piratemyfilm.com


Thanks to everyone who contributed to the script and concept.  Now we need it to go viral!!!


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May 08, 2012, 08:09:53 PM
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LOL, great video!

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May 08, 2012, 08:14:24 PM
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Yaay, Bootstrap!
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May 08, 2012, 09:00:35 PM
 #4

+1

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May 08, 2012, 09:40:26 PM
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Nice Smiley

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May 08, 2012, 10:11:04 PM
 #6

The voice over needs to be transcripted to English asap. I want to translate it to Finnish (using subtitles).

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May 08, 2012, 10:23:36 PM
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Here is a copy of the script.  If anyone can translate this, I will have it redone with different language voiceover.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ltrpj5uL-b2urfGW3SAGBkZ3qvZTKHroVzdVZnwo-Ok/edit

Finnish
French
German
Spanish
Russian
Chinese

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May 08, 2012, 10:37:51 PM
 #8

Here is a copy of the script.  If anyone can translate this, I will have it redone with different language voiceover.
At least in Finland people are very used to subtitles so that would make sense to start with. I will translate the script asap and then give it to you and then it's very easy for you to just add it on Youtube so that the video has Finnish subtitles included. Youtube has a fairly good subtitle system these days, nothing has to be redone just copy paste to the subtitle preferences of that video.

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May 08, 2012, 10:40:30 PM
 #9

Here is a copy of the script.  If anyone can translate this, I will have it redone with different language voiceover.
At least in Finland people are very used to subtitles so that would make sense to start with. I will translate the script asap and then give it to you and then it's very easy for you to just add it on Youtube so that the video has Finnish subtitles included. Youtube has a fairly good subtitle system these days, nothing has to be redone just copy paste to the subtitle preferences of that video.

beautiful!

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May 08, 2012, 10:40:48 PM
 #10

The video does not work for people using noscript.  Even with scripting allowed to the screwbanks.net page, it still needs a few more sites to be 'allowed' to play.  

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May 08, 2012, 10:58:14 PM
 #11

yeah, I dont know.
I would rather show the old video to a sceptical friend of mine, then this one. Its good for a laugh, but does not introduce bitcoin as a serious project.
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May 08, 2012, 11:13:46 PM
 #12

Lol nice video.

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May 08, 2012, 11:17:06 PM
 #13

What's up with "PayPay?"

(BFL)^2 < 0
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May 08, 2012, 11:22:43 PM
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What's up with "PayPay?"
It's satirical, and I assume it hints at their outrageous fees. (See also: "fakebook", and "Goggle")
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May 08, 2012, 11:24:55 PM
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What's up with "PayPay?"
It's satirical, and I assume it hints at their outrageous fees. (See also: "fakebook", and "Goggle")

PayPay and all of the characters are fictional, of course.  In this scene, PayPay locks up other peoples money for 6 months without any appeal.

http://screwbanks.net/credits.html


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May 08, 2012, 11:35:15 PM
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Bold words from a company that has HIGHER fees than Paypal!

Also Bitcoin currently pays ~250k USD to miners per week (6 Blocks per hour per day per week * 350USD at a rate of 5 $ per coin). In half a year this amount will halve, meaning that miners will either give up making the network vulnerable or need real transaction fees (which are currently too small to care about).

For me it's a bit too much government bashing and too little actual information. To "just use Bitcoin" to transfer money, you need to buy them - from a japanese website that looks like a stock exchange and doesn't accept my Paypal or Credit Card! After that you get hit by AML laws until you are allowed to withdraw the money you sent "so fast"...

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May 08, 2012, 11:42:46 PM
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Bold words from a company that has HIGHER fees than Paypal!

Is Bitpay charging over 2.9% ??

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May 08, 2012, 11:45:26 PM
 #18

For me it's a bit too much government bashing and too little actual information.
Yeah, but you're probably a geek and think cute cat videos have too little actual information, too.

The video gets a +1 from me; effective marketing appeals to emotion, not intellect.

How often do you get the chance to work on a potentially world-changing project?
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May 08, 2012, 11:45:59 PM
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For me it's a bit too much government bashing and too little actual information.
Yeah, but you're probably a geek and think cute cat videos have too little actual information, too.

The video gets a +1 from me; effective marketing appeals to emotion, not intellect.


Bingo.

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May 08, 2012, 11:46:35 PM
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For me it's a bit too much government bashing and too little actual information.
Yeah, but you're probably a geek and think cute cat videos have too little actual information, too.

The video gets a +1 from me; effective marketing appeals to emotion, not intellect.


Agreed, great job on the video.
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May 08, 2012, 11:46:47 PM
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effective marketing appeals to emotion, not intellect.
Surprisingly true, sir.
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May 08, 2012, 11:50:21 PM
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effective marketing appeals to emotion, not intellect.
Surprisingly true, sir.

That's exactly the point.  bring peoples pain and frustration to the surface, then offer the solution.  That's way better than just blabbing about bitcoin from the get-go.

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May 09, 2012, 12:15:50 AM
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Bold words from a company that has HIGHER fees than Paypal!

Is Bitpay charging over 2.9% ??
Yes, if you don't use USD... just look at their page.

I'm not sure if anger and frustrations should be the emotions that make you use Bitcoin - but I guess "anything goes" is also a marketing principle, right? Wink

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May 09, 2012, 12:20:59 AM
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Bold words from a company that has HIGHER fees than Paypal!

Is Bitpay charging over 2.9% ??
Yes, if you don't use USD... just look at their page.

I'm not sure if anger and frustrations should be the emotions that make you use Bitcoin - but I guess "anything goes" is also a marketing principle, right? Wink

Bit-Pay is less than PayPal at all price points.  for sales < $20, substantially less.

https://bit-pay.com/accountingHelp.html

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May 09, 2012, 12:32:25 AM
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FYI, the origins of the project:
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=52109.0

And a blog post referring to the bitcoin-based crowdfunding:

Quote
The video started out as a project on Max Keiser (@MaxKeiser)’s Pirate My Film (PMF) (@PirateMyFilm) crowdfunding platform.  Pledges at $5 and up were made by the Bitcoin community, and once the project was fully funded, the only way to send funds was with bitcoins.

The project had the goal of $1,500 USD but the project was oversubscribed and and extra 15% of funds were collected from 114 “shareholders”.  Though PMF does offer equity-based projects and each $5 contribution is referred to as a share, this particular project was not pitched as a revenue-generating film so there will be no dividends given to contributors, which the site labels as “shareholders”.  Screw Banks was the first project on PMF in which Bitcoins were accepted for payment.

 - http://www.bitcoinmoney.com/post/22683633233


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May 09, 2012, 02:24:38 AM
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I originally had some concerns about the overall tone of the video, but I think in the end it came out great.   Especially for a Max Keiser audience.  If you haven't checked it out, the page showing the cast of characters is hilarious.

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May 09, 2012, 02:26:21 AM
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I downloaded it , but i can't play it.

What's the file type ?  .flv or .swf ?

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May 09, 2012, 02:49:57 AM
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Bold words from a company that has HIGHER fees than Paypal!

Is Bitpay charging over 2.9% ??
Yes, if you don't use USD... just look at their page.

I'm not sure if anger and frustrations should be the emotions that make you use Bitcoin - but I guess "anything goes" is also a marketing principle, right? Wink

Bit-Pay is less than PayPal at all price points.  for sales < $20, substantially less.

https://bit-pay.com/accountingHelp.html

For me, paypal would be charging 37 cents on a $2.50 transaction (a single bumper sticker shipped in the US), bit-pay charges me 2.5 cents.  Paypal on small orders is 10x as expensive as bit-pay.

I actually have shipped out orders that cost $1.48, so paypal would be charging about a 20% fee on those orders.  Screw paypal.  Smiley

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May 09, 2012, 06:03:05 AM
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There are definitely good things about the video, but I have big problems with a number of elements.

(1) The "Occupy Wall Street" movement is anti-capitalist, and I don't like seeing bitcoin associated with anti-Wall Street sentiment.

(2) The idea of brokers "stealing" from clients is ridiculous. If your broker is stealing from you, you should take them to court and get a new broker.

(3) The notion of "screwing" the banks is insulting and juvenile. "We" (the "bitcoin community") are not out to screw anyone.

Overall, it's clear to anyone with half a brain that this video was designed purely for the sake of pulling in people who are overly emotional and irrational. That doesn't reflect well on the "bitcoin community."

And frankly, the kind of ignorant people who would fall for this kind of demagoguery are not going to be early adopters, anyway.

In contrast, I believe that someone could create a video that has a high degree of emotional appeal, while still arguing for bitcoin intelligently.

I know there will be a lot of disagreement with what I've said, but that's OK.. just my 2 cents (.004 bitcoins).
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May 09, 2012, 06:12:34 AM
 #30

This video is full of win.

I want to donate bitcoins to whoever is responsible for it, in acknowledgement of its awesomeness.  I don't want to screw around with creating an account on piratemyfilm.com or "queueing shares" (whatever the heck that means).

Could you please put a donation address somewhere on the screwbanks.net website?  Thanks, and rock on!

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May 09, 2012, 06:21:30 AM
 #31

This video is full of win.

I want to donate bitcoins to whoever is responsible for it, in acknowledgement of its awesomeness.  I don't want to screw around with creating an account on piratemyfilm.com or "queueing shares" (whatever the heck that means).

Could you please put a donation address somewhere on the screwbanks.net website?  Thanks, and rock on!

Thanks man!

The piratemyfilm window is closed.  you can donate directly through the red donate link at the site

http://screwbanks.net

which goes to lovebitcoins.  just click the 10BTC donate button and you can give whatever you want.  if you'd like your name listed as a supporter, enter that before you hit the bitcoin button.


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May 09, 2012, 06:25:14 AM
 #32

(2) The idea of brokers "stealing" from clients is ridiculous. If your broker is stealing from you, you should take them to court and get a new broker.

I don't know what it's like in other parts of the world - but in Australia about the lowest cost for a trade appears to be around $10  
Now that's trivial to most people who are trading - but it's an entry barrier tax on the small player for which I can see little excuse in an age of electronically mediated trades.
Still - I don't really see how Bitcoin is going to help with that in any reasonable timeframe even if it does grow significantly, so I did find it a somewhat strange inclusion in the video.



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May 09, 2012, 06:30:45 AM
 #33

(2) The idea of brokers "stealing" from clients is ridiculous. If your broker is stealing from you, you should take them to court and get a new broker.

I don't know what it's like in other parts of the world - but in Australia about the lowest cost for a trade appears to be around $10  
Now that's trivial to most people who are trading - but it's an entry barrier tax on the small player for which I can see little excuse in an age of electronically mediated trades.
Still - I don't really see how Bitcoin is going to help with that in any reasonable timeframe even if it does grow significantly, so I did find it a somewhat strange inclusion in the video.

Guys look into MF Global, that will answer all your questions.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/mf-global-client-theft-estimate-doubled-15-billion


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May 09, 2012, 06:50:35 AM
 #34

There are definitely good things about the video, but I have big problems with a number of elements.

(1) The "Occupy Wall Street" movement is anti-capitalist

I didn't see anything resembling OWS specifically in there.

I don't like seeing bitcoin associated with anti-Wall Street sentiment.

Might you consider why this particular headline was included in Bitcoin blockchain - Block 0:

Quote
The coinbase parameter (seen above in hex) contains, along with the normal data, the following text[1]:
"The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks"
- http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Genesis_block



(2) The idea of brokers "stealing" from clients is ridiculous. If your broker is stealing from you, you should take them to court and get a new broker.

Speaking of, ... has anyone heard if anyone from MF Global or JP Morgue been charged with a crime yet?


(3) The notion of "screwing" the banks is insulting and juvenile. "We" (the "bitcoin community") are not out to screw anyone.

I interpreted the use of that word as a slang word used in the following referenced from Dictionary.com:

screw off, Slang .
  b.) to leave; go away.

 - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/screw?s=t

So, not as in "to cheat" but as in, "stop using them" or "forget them!"


In contrast, I believe that someone could create a video that has a high degree of emotional appeal, while still arguing for bitcoin intelligently.

There was more than $1,500 raised for this project, but I believe even that didn't cover all the costs.

If a crowdfunding effort to do that as you describe, I'ld contribute!

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May 09, 2012, 06:58:15 AM
 #35

I downloaded it , but i can't play it.

What's the file type ?  .flv or .swf ?

MPEG4 version 2, which may or may not be in an FLV wrapper depending on which file you downloaded (YouTube doesn't like to make this simple).

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May 09, 2012, 07:02:03 AM
 #36

Well, if someone thinks they can do a better video, why not create one? It was crowdfunded operation, and if you have a good proposal, you will surely get investments.

I liked it - a little humorous and simplistic, this will work for certain kind of people.

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May 09, 2012, 08:07:31 AM
 #37

you can donate directly through the red donate link ... which goes to lovebitcoins.

Yeah, that's why I asked for an address to donate to the people responsible for the video.

Who is lovebitcoins?  Are they solely responsible for the video?  Are they btcpay?  Are they piratemyfilm?  Are they something else?  Sorry if this sounds stupid.  The video is awesome; the confusion over this menagerie of organizations was slightly less than awesome.

Again, thanks for the great video!

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May 09, 2012, 08:16:35 AM
 #38

Good job guys!
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May 09, 2012, 08:32:13 AM
 #39

-1. If I had seen this video when I was first introduced to Bitcoin (and hadn't been already familiar with the concept of cryptocurrency), I'd run for my life and wouldn't come back for a year or so. It only alienates normal, non-anarchist people.

I agree though that making your audience believe they already agree with you, rather than trying to convince them of anything, is a sound Demagogy technique.

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May 09, 2012, 09:28:54 AM
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-1. If I had seen this video when I was first introduced to Bitcoin (and hadn't been already familiar with the concept of cryptocurrency), I'd run for my life and wouldn't come back for a year or so. It only alienates normal, non-anarchist people.

I agree though that making your audience believe they already agree with you, rather than trying to convince them of anything, is a sound Demagogy technique.

This video isn't aimed for the normal people. It is for the zeitgeist-y anti-banking people, same niche as Max Keiser is targeting. weusecoins.com is for the mainstream.

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May 09, 2012, 10:06:15 AM
 #41

This video isn't aimed for the normal people. It is for the zeitgeist-y anti-banking people, same niche as Max Keiser is targeting. weusecoins.com is for the mainstream.
Exactly. People who dislike this video based on the content are clueless about marketing. This is aimed at a certain crowd and I like it in that context. It's not meant for people who do not think that our societal problems are systemic. Marketing is about segmenting and it's actually very rare that a piece should be directed at "everyone" in general. In fact I think Bitcoin simply does not appeal well to "everyone" no matter what type of video you make, even the weusecoins vid is not an "everyone" type video, simply because Bitcoin is not, at least not yet, an "everyone" type project.

My only problem with this video is the tone of the speech. The voice itself is great, I like it a lot, but the tone has that strong American commercial style, very over the top. In Finland that kind of commercial would be laughed at, not because it has good jokes but because the entire vid sounds too much like an American commercial. So this is basically why I would eventually like to perhaps see new voice overs in other languages or even an alternative, European style voice over in English.

But this is just my constructive criticism, other than that I really like it and have no problems with the content. It works well with a certain crowd and that is the crowd it's directed at, so there is no big issue here.

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May 09, 2012, 10:28:10 AM
 #42

This video isn't aimed for the normal people. It is for the zeitgeist-y anti-banking people, same niche as Max Keiser is targeting. weusecoins.com is for the mainstream.
Exactly. People who dislike this video based on the content are clueless about marketing. This is aimed at a certain crowd and I like it in that context. It's not meant for people who do not think that our societal problems are systemic. Marketing is about segmenting and it's actually very rare that a piece should be directed at "everyone" in general. In fact I think Bitcoin simply does not appeal well to "everyone" no matter what type of video you make, even the weusecoins vid is not an "everyone" type video, simply because Bitcoin is not, at least not yet, an "everyone" type project.
I have no problem with marketing to a specific audience in the way you deem the most effective. I just worry about the damage done if people will "Promote it on Facebook, Twitter, Digg, everywhere you can!!!" and it will be exposed to a wider audience, creating negative publicity.

Also, it's not just about the content. The voice, the tone, the choice of words, a lot of things raise red flags for me.

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May 09, 2012, 10:39:47 AM
 #43

I have no problem with marketing to a specific audience in the way you deem the most effective. I just worry about the damage done if people will "Promote it on Facebook, Twitter, Digg, everywhere you can!!!" and it will be exposed to a wider audience, creating negative publicity.

Also, it's not just about the content. The voice, the tone, the choice of words, a lot of things raise red flags for me.
You have a good point here and I do agree with the tone issue. It's up to us to spread these type of videos to the right audiences because it's not meant for everyone.

I don't go and spam this video everywhere, I have some groups in Facebook where spreading this video would be ridiculous. But on one hand I happen to be a former prominent Zeitgeist movement member in my country which means that I'm in many large groups related to that and a good number of friends are related to that well, and they could very well like this type of video, so it makes sense for me to post it on my wall and certain groups/pages.

So in conclusion, it's a valid point that this vid should not be spammed everywhere without thought, it could have harmful consequences as well. This is done mainly for the OWS crowd so spam it in places where there are a lot of that crowd.

There are two types of videos you can make, other one is the general type which is weusecoins and another one is where you go straight to the points that a certain crowd cares about and stick with it. What we need next is a video with libertarian tones and libertarian concerns. We could also benefit from a technical video that is meant for geeks and focuses a little more on how Bitcoin actually works and how FPGA's are awesome.

In fact wasn't there a vid planned for the libertarian crowd? I think there was a thread about a good animator possibly doing something like that. Sounds great to me and I'd be happy to help crowdfund that as well.


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May 09, 2012, 12:48:24 PM
 #44

There are definitely good things about the video, but I have big problems with a number of elements.

(1) The "Occupy Wall Street" movement is anti-capitalist

I didn't see anything resembling OWS specifically in there.

I don't like seeing bitcoin associated with anti-Wall Street sentiment.

Might you consider why this particular headline was included in Bitcoin blockchain - Block 0:

The coinbase parameter (seen above in hex) contains, along with the normal data, the following text[1]:
"The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks"

 - http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Genesis_block

There is a line in the video "You're upset with Wall Street but you keep buying their stocks." I don't know anyone who uses rhetoric like that besides Occupy Wall Street. Wall Street != the big banks like Goldman. I'm already aware of the message in the genesis block, but I think bank bailouts are a different issue.

By the way, this line goes to show how ridiculous the video is. The "demographic" this video is "targeting" does not buy stocks or trade with brokers (in general). I'm sorry, but upper and middle class people who do do those things, are not going to fall for this kind of demagoguery.

(3) The notion of "screwing" the banks is insulting and juvenile. "We" (the "bitcoin community") are not out to screw anyone.

I interpreted the use of that word as a slang word used in the following referenced from Dictionary.com:

screw off, Slang .
  b.) to leave; go away.

 - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/screw?s=t

So, not as in "to cheat" but as in, "stop using them" or "forget them!"

Not at all. It's not "screw off," it's "screw." Dictionary.com defines this variously as meaning "to coerce or threaten"; "to extract or extort"; "to cheat or take advantage of someone"; "to practice extortion." There is no ambiguity at all with regards to what this means in American English, though perhaps there is with respect to other dialects of English.

In contrast, I believe that someone could create a video that has a high degree of emotional appeal, while still arguing for bitcoin intelligently.

There was more than $1,500 raised for this project, but I believe even that didn't cover all the costs.

If a crowdfunding effort to do that as you describe, I'ld contribute!

I'd possibly contribute as well, but can't spare the time to set it all up myself.
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May 09, 2012, 12:51:15 PM
 #45

Bold words from a company that has HIGHER fees than Paypal!

Is Bitpay charging over 2.9% ??
Yes, if you don't use USD... just look at their page.

I'm not sure if anger and frustrations should be the emotions that make you use Bitcoin - but I guess "anything goes" is also a marketing principle, right? Wink

Bit-Pay is less than PayPal at all price points.  for sales < $20, substantially less.

https://bit-pay.com/accountingHelp.html

For me, paypal would be charging 37 cents on a $2.50 transaction (a single bumper sticker shipped in the US), bit-pay charges me 2.5 cents.  Paypal on small orders is 10x as expensive as bit-pay.

I actually have shipped out orders that cost $1.48, so paypal would be charging about a 20% fee on those orders.  Screw paypal.  Smiley

Quote
"The total fee for payouts in CAD, EUR, GBP, and MXN is 3.99%."

If I sell a GPU for 150€ with PP, I need to be paid 155.64 EUR according to http://www.gregledet.net/ppfcm.html
If I sell it via bit-pay, I need to be paid 155.985 EUR. Above, it gets even worse.
Might be nice for selling bumper stickers or stamps, but a flat 3.99% fee is still more than PP charges - and you can get discounts there as merchant as well, depending on your volume.

Also BitPay charges you more than 2.5 cents if you sell it for 2.50 USD and actually want to get USD as you would get with PP as well. If PP invented their own internal "PayPalcoin" - would you like to get paid in that?! Most merchants probably won't, I guess that's one of the great things about BitPay in the first place, that you don't have to even care about Bitcoin at all to offer it to your users and you'll never even have to touch a single Bitcoin.

By the way, the risk that bit-pay freezes funds is also there - they can even freeze BTC funds, since payment is not done directly to an address that you control as far as I understand.

Anyways, not to defend PP in any way (I only use it to pay myself and if I ever get payments there, I usually pull them as fast as possible) - but if I want to sell something for EUR and get EUR for it, PP is still cheaper above ~100-150 EUR than BitPay. The possibility that your account gets frozen or payouts get delayed is there in both systems, BP has the advantage that they are still small though and might have to care more about their customers. Also they should have no problem with reversed incoming transactions...

Well, back to the video:
Let's assume, I like it (for whatever reason - I'm angry at my bank, charging me for simple transactions, I like the general idea of a "free" money...) - what should I do next? There is no "Buy Bitcoins now with BitPay" or "Go to ... and get them at the current daily rate" or anything else. I'm excited now about Bitcoin but completely without a next step I should take. This means I'll either google, check Wikipedia or simply "like" the video and forget about it...

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May 09, 2012, 02:33:50 PM
 #46

By the way, this line goes to show how ridiculous the video is. The "demographic" this video is "targeting" does not buy stocks or trade with brokers (in general). I'm sorry, but upper and middle class people who do do those things, are not going to fall for this kind of demagoguery.

I think you are underestimating that demographic. OK, the vocal people of that demography probably aren't buying stocks and probably aren't wall street customers. But they are _very_ visible in the political discussion, at least how I see it.

And the guys criticizing this issue fail to see the point - they glorify their own political worldview and ideology, not understanding that the idea of this kind of videos is to spread bitcoin widely and far, to different cultures, different political ideologies.

While this video probably didn't catch the viral effect (or maybe did, I don't know the numbers), the next video might. Just keep producing them, for different demographies, different viewpoints etc. Don't keep bitcoin as a crypto-nerd - libertardian - laissez faire - anarcho-capitalist -thing, if bitcoin stays attached to those ideologies it won't catch on.

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May 09, 2012, 02:46:07 PM
 #47

In a sense, the thing that some people here are angry with this video, is a very good sign. Effective marketing usually doesn't make everyone happy - it can make some people possibly very upset, while other demographies will dig it.

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May 09, 2012, 06:06:23 PM
 #48

I think a better approach would be.

You are screwed by the banks. Here is how they do it.

etc etc...

End

If you realize its stupid, use Bitcoin its great.

Or something like that.






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May 09, 2012, 08:27:58 PM
 #49

I liked the video, pretty cool. We also need to introduce Bitcoins into the National Education Curriculum to accelerate it's acceptance.

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May 09, 2012, 09:28:41 PM
 #50

This video was really needed. The fact that only the one humorless, pompous ass in this thread does not like it is further proof that its well done. I will definitely use it in my presentations.

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May 10, 2012, 12:38:37 AM
 #51

(3) The notion of "screwing" the banks is insulting and juvenile. "We" (the "bitcoin community") are not out to screw anyone.

I interpreted the use of that word as a slang word used in the following referenced from Dictionary.com:

screw off, Slang .
  b.) to leave; go away.

 - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/screw?s=t

So, not as in "to cheat" but as in, "stop using them" or "forget them!"

Not at all. It's not "screw off," it's "screw." Dictionary.com defines this variously as meaning "to coerce or threaten"; "to extract or extort"; "to cheat or take advantage of someone"; "to practice extortion." There is no ambiguity at all with regards to what this means in American English, though perhaps there is with respect to other dialects of English.

If you re-listen to the last few seconds of the video you will know the context, and it is not "to threaten" or "extort" or "cheat".   They would have used the phrase "Fuck banks" but couldn't for obvious reasons.  To me, there is little doubt as to the meaning.

As far as to whom a message must resonate the most with (assuming there's only one message to deliver), see the left half or so of the following:



 - http://payments.intuit.com/mobile-payments-infographics

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May 10, 2012, 12:47:43 AM
 #52

They would have used the phrase "Fuck banks" but couldn't for obvious reasons.

I agree with you that that is precisely the message/attitude that is conveyed, and the intended meaning of "screw" in this video.
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May 10, 2012, 02:12:14 AM
 #53

As far as to whom a message must resonate the most with (assuming there's only one message to deliver), see the left half or so of the following:



 - http://payments.intuit.com/mobile-payments-infographics

Yep, Marketing 101.  Know your target audience, get their attention, and speak to them.

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May 10, 2012, 02:22:06 AM
 #54

In context, the only plausible meaning for "screw banks" is that you should view banks with contempt. Much like "screw you".

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May 10, 2012, 02:57:37 AM
 #55

This video isn't aimed for the normal people. It is for the zeitgeist-y anti-banking people, same niche as Max Keiser is targeting. weusecoins.com is for the mainstream.
Exactly. People who dislike this video based on the content are clueless about marketing. This is aimed at a certain crowd and I like it in that context. It's not meant for people who do not think that our societal problems are systemic. Marketing is about segmenting and it's actually very rare that a piece should be directed at "everyone" in general. In fact I think Bitcoin simply does not appeal well to "everyone" no matter what type of video you make, even the weusecoins vid is not an "everyone" type video, simply because Bitcoin is not, at least not yet, an "everyone" type project.
I have no problem with marketing to a specific audience in the way you deem the most effective. I just worry about the damage done if people will "Promote it on Facebook, Twitter, Digg, everywhere you can!!!" and it will be exposed to a wider audience, creating negative publicity.

Also, it's not just about the content. The voice, the tone, the choice of words, a lot of things raise red flags for me.

Yup. 

And on the view that it is meant for a specific niche, note in the subject line of this thread: "make it viral!"   
Either that is meant to target it at everybody or else it is meant in the sense of making that small group
sick with an infection.   Wink

Quote from: JoelKatz
In context, the only plausible meaning for "screw banks" is that you should view banks with contempt. Much like "screw you".

Yup. 
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May 10, 2012, 03:06:13 AM
 #56

I completely disagree with those who say this video isn't effective.

1)  Unless you're a total nerd (and the vast majority of the population are not), you will not be picking apart this commercial line by line.  The message is extremely simple:  "Are you the little guy that's sick of being pushed around by bigger guys?  Here's a solution."  Thus, it's empowering.

2)  That line about stock brokers does not need to appeal to stock brokers.  Any teenage idiot has heard about occupy wall street or zeitgeist or alex jones or someone like that, and they're easy to brainwash.  They're not stock brokers and they think stock brokers are boring guys in suits, and for that reason the message still works.  You could start a video about rebelling against lunch ladies that make horrible hair-laden casseroles and they'd buy into it.  Besides, the tone of voice that's used in the video is a brilliant form of peer pressure, almost like a  "if you don't get what I'm saying by now then you're fucking retarded" kind of deal.

3)  Gavin hit the nail on the head.  Marketing is about appeal to emotion and not intelligence.  This is why sex sells and why peer pressure sells (peer pressure marketing made rap music successful...entourages, anyone?).  I posted this video up on my Facebook and within 10 minutes some dumb bitch that I've almost never talked to in my life (but whom I went to school with) gave it a 'like.'  This video creates a brilliant but unspoken dichotomy -- either you're on board with the Bitcoiners or you're a piece of shit who sides with corruption and greed.

Again, awesome video.

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May 10, 2012, 03:09:44 AM
 #57

I liked it.  I thought it was simple enough that it might get people to take a closer look at Bitcoin.  Good Facebook material.

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May 10, 2012, 04:32:25 AM
 #58

Any teenage idiot has heard about occupy wall street or zeitgeist or alex jones or someone like that, and they're easy to brainwash.

Besides, the tone of voice that's used in the video is a brilliant form of peer pressure

Emphasis in the above quotes mine.

Does this community really endorse trying to spread bitcoins through brainwashing and peer pressure?

Does this community really endorse trying to spread bitcoins through emotions instead of intelligence?

I was actually assuming the people who made the video actually agreed with the video, in which case I would just say I have a difference of opinion with them.

But it doesn't seem like very many people here really do agree with it. It seems like almost everyone is saying, "I don't agree with it, but I think it's OK to trick other people that are gulliable enough to fall for it."

I think that such an approach is unethical.

Now, some people will say, "it's unethical - OK, so what, who cares, as long as it attracts people to bitcoin?"

I don't agree that's it's OK to be unethical. But even setting that aside, being unethical doesn't really make sense as a strategy for attracting people to bitcoin.

Consider the following (independent) points.

(1) That strategy reflects very poorly on the trustworthiness of the bitcoin community, which is going to dissuade people from getting involved.

(2) Behaving unethically is just going to attract unethical people, and that's not really going to help the community much.

(3) Most importantly: "Idiot" teenagers who can easily be "brainwashed" are not going to be particularly good advocates of bitcoin. Bitcoin needs smart, articulate people to spread - there are still TONS of those who have not even HEARD of it. Also, it takes someone with intelligence and a good deal of patience/persistance to actually obtain and use bitcoin, at this stage of the game.

By the way, let me emphasize, I am really glad people are putting time/effort into making videos to get more people interested in bitcoin. I do applaud that effort.

I know most people who have bothered to speek up in this thread so far do not agree with me, but there are going to be differences of opinion and I hope everyone is OK with that fact.
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May 10, 2012, 07:04:27 AM
 #59

This video creates a brilliant but unspoken dichotomy -- either you're on board with the Bitcoiners or you're a piece of shit who sides with corruption and greed.


This.

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May 10, 2012, 07:18:49 AM
 #60

Does this community really endorse trying to spread bitcoins through brainwashing and peer pressure?

Does this community really endorse trying to spread bitcoins through emotions instead of intelligence?
If you were advising Martin Luther King, he would have given an "I have a plan" speech, and African Americans would still be drinking from their own water fountains.

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May 10, 2012, 07:32:46 AM
 #61

Any teenage idiot has heard about occupy wall street or zeitgeist or alex jones or someone like that, and they're easy to brainwash.

Besides, the tone of voice that's used in the video is a brilliant form of peer pressure

Emphasis in the above quotes mine.

Does this community really endorse trying to spread bitcoins through brainwashing and peer pressure?

Does this community really endorse trying to spread bitcoins through emotions instead of intelligence?

I was actually assuming the people who made the video actually agreed with the video, in which case I would just say I have a difference of opinion with them.

But it doesn't seem like very many people here really do agree with it. It seems like almost everyone is saying, "I don't agree with it, but I think it's OK to trick other people that are gulliable enough to fall for it."

I think that such an approach is unethical.

Now, some people will say, "it's unethical - OK, so what, who cares, as long as it attracts people to bitcoin?"

I don't agree that's it's OK to be unethical. But even setting that aside, being unethical doesn't really make sense as a strategy for attracting people to bitcoin.

Consider the following (independent) points.

(1) That strategy reflects very poorly on the trustworthiness of the bitcoin community, which is going to dissuade people from getting involved.

(2) Behaving unethically is just going to attract unethical people, and that's not really going to help the community much.

(3) Most importantly: "Idiot" teenagers who can easily be "brainwashed" are not going to be particularly good advocates of bitcoin. Bitcoin needs smart, articulate people to spread - there are still TONS of those who have not even HEARD of it. Also, it takes someone with intelligence and a good deal of patience/persistance to actually obtain and use bitcoin, at this stage of the game.

By the way, let me emphasize, I am really glad people are putting time/effort into making videos to get more people interested in bitcoin. I do applaud that effort.

I know most people who have bothered to speek up in this thread so far do not agree with me, but there are going to be differences of opinion and I hope everyone is OK with that fact.

If, as you assumed, the makers of the video believe in what they are saying in the video, then where does the unethical part come in?

And even if they didn't, consider this question:  Would it be unethical to brainwash someone into choosing good over evil?  If, as I think we all assume, that the Bitcoin protocol itself has more potential for ethical application than does the alternative (fiat currency and its implications), then is it wrong to brainwash others to get them to use it?

Regardless, perhaps "brainwash" as understood in the fullest sense was an inappropriate word choice.  People can make their own decisions, including choosing to be ignorant.

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May 10, 2012, 08:46:13 AM
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Would it be unethical to brainwash someone into choosing good over evil?
Yes. If you're using evil methods to achieve your goals - even if the goal is to promote a supposedly good cause - it means your moral compass is too screwed up to be trusted to decide what is good and what is evil. Sooner or later you'll use the evil methods you have perfected for evil goals, making the victory Pyrrhic.

Achieving your goals honestly is tougher, but any success is genuine and indicative of truly making the world more good.

Does this community really endorse trying to spread bitcoins through brainwashing and peer pressure?

Does this community really endorse trying to spread bitcoins through emotions instead of intelligence?
If you were advising Martin Luther King, he would have given an "I have a plan" speech, and African Americans would still be drinking from their own water fountains.
The words "instead of" are very important, hence they were bolded. You can invoke emotions while still respecting your audience's intelligence, it's all about how you do it.

Edit: Ironically, one could argue that using bolded words was a form of appeal to emotion...

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May 10, 2012, 09:14:55 AM
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Yes. If you're using evil methods to achieve your goals - even if the goal is to promote a supposedly good cause - it means your moral compass is too screwed up to be trusted to decide what is good and what is evil. Sooner or later you'll use the evil methods you have perfected for evil goals, making the victory Pyrrhic.

Achieving your goals honestly is tougher, but any success is genuine and indicative of truly making the world more good.

What is so evil about this video? I thought that you were earlier criticizing the tone/style of this video, now it is ethically wrong? Are there some wrong facts in this video?

The video is simplistic/naive, but that is the point.

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May 10, 2012, 09:36:25 AM
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Yes. If you're using evil methods to achieve your goals - even if the goal is to promote a supposedly good cause - it means your moral compass is too screwed up to be trusted to decide what is good and what is evil. Sooner or later you'll use the evil methods you have perfected for evil goals, making the victory Pyrrhic.

Achieving your goals honestly is tougher, but any success is genuine and indicative of truly making the world more good.

What is so evil about this video? I thought that you were earlier criticizing the tone/style of this video, now it is ethically wrong? Are there some wrong facts in this video?

The video is simplistic/naive, but that is the point.
I didn't say the video is evil. I answered the joint's question.

mollison argued that, under a given interpretation of the video creators' intentions, promoting the video could be construed as unethical, and there was a question about the implications of such a conclusion.

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May 10, 2012, 09:59:30 AM
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"People do not buy what you do , they buy why you do it". This is brilliantly explained by Simon Sinek in this video
Why do I do bitcoin software ?


Because I believe in changing the status quo for a better world. A better world needs a better banking system. I believe bitcoin is going to change the status quo in banking.

"Screw banks" sums it up like no other bitcoin video did so far.

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May 10, 2012, 03:33:07 PM
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Any teenage idiot has heard about occupy wall street or zeitgeist or alex jones or someone like that, and they're easy to brainwash.

Besides, the tone of voice that's used in the video is a brilliant form of peer pressure

Emphasis in the above quotes mine.

Does this community really endorse trying to spread bitcoins through brainwashing and peer pressure?

Does this community really endorse trying to spread bitcoins through emotions instead of intelligence?

I was actually assuming the people who made the video actually agreed with the video, in which case I would just say I have a difference of opinion with them.

But it doesn't seem like very many people here really do agree with it. It seems like almost everyone is saying, "I don't agree with it, but I think it's OK to trick other people that are gulliable enough to fall for it."

I think that such an approach is unethical.

Now, some people will say, "it's unethical - OK, so what, who cares, as long as it attracts people to bitcoin?"

I don't agree that's it's OK to be unethical. But even setting that aside, being unethical doesn't really make sense as a strategy for attracting people to bitcoin.

Consider the following (independent) points.

(1) That strategy reflects very poorly on the trustworthiness of the bitcoin community, which is going to dissuade people from getting involved.

(2) Behaving unethically is just going to attract unethical people, and that's not really going to help the community much.

(3) Most importantly: "Idiot" teenagers who can easily be "brainwashed" are not going to be particularly good advocates of bitcoin. Bitcoin needs smart, articulate people to spread - there are still TONS of those who have not even HEARD of it. Also, it takes someone with intelligence and a good deal of patience/persistance to actually obtain and use bitcoin, at this stage of the game.

By the way, let me emphasize, I am really glad people are putting time/effort into making videos to get more people interested in bitcoin. I do applaud that effort.

I know most people who have bothered to speek up in this thread so far do not agree with me, but there are going to be differences of opinion and I hope everyone is OK with that fact.

Hear hear. Well said.

I have always maintained the view - might as well repeat it - that we don't need belligerence ( which is more a sign of insecurity than anything ).
We don't need to attack the banks, credit cards, and paypal etc. in order for bitcoin to be successful. That would, if anything, only give them a
moral advantage.

We just need to focus on what bitcoin can do and let people choose what works best for them.  Better than trying to manipulate the ignorant
emotionally is to help relieve them of that ignorance somewhat with information.

Is bitcoin so lacking in positive qualities that we need to play these unethical marketing games to try and impose it on the masses? 

Do we really need to become raving conspiracy clowns?

 
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May 10, 2012, 11:16:03 PM
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Any teenage idiot has heard about occupy wall street or zeitgeist or alex jones or someone like that, and they're easy to brainwash.

Besides, the tone of voice that's used in the video is a brilliant form of peer pressure

Emphasis in the above quotes mine.

Does this community really endorse trying to spread bitcoins through brainwashing and peer pressure?

Does this community really endorse trying to spread bitcoins through emotions instead of intelligence?

I was actually assuming the people who made the video actually agreed with the video, in which case I would just say I have a difference of opinion with them.

But it doesn't seem like very many people here really do agree with it. It seems like almost everyone is saying, "I don't agree with it, but I think it's OK to trick other people that are gulliable enough to fall for it."

I think that such an approach is unethical.

Now, some people will say, "it's unethical - OK, so what, who cares, as long as it attracts people to bitcoin?"

I don't agree that's it's OK to be unethical. But even setting that aside, being unethical doesn't really make sense as a strategy for attracting people to bitcoin.

Consider the following (independent) points.

(1) That strategy reflects very poorly on the trustworthiness of the bitcoin community, which is going to dissuade people from getting involved.

(2) Behaving unethically is just going to attract unethical people, and that's not really going to help the community much.

(3) Most importantly: "Idiot" teenagers who can easily be "brainwashed" are not going to be particularly good advocates of bitcoin. Bitcoin needs smart, articulate people to spread - there are still TONS of those who have not even HEARD of it. Also, it takes someone with intelligence and a good deal of patience/persistance to actually obtain and use bitcoin, at this stage of the game.

By the way, let me emphasize, I am really glad people are putting time/effort into making videos to get more people interested in bitcoin. I do applaud that effort.

I know most people who have bothered to speek up in this thread so far do not agree with me, but there are going to be differences of opinion and I hope everyone is OK with that fact.

Hear hear. Well said.

I have always maintained the view - might as well repeat it - that we don't need belligerence ( which is more a sign of insecurity than anything ).
We don't need to attack the banks, credit cards, and paypal etc. in order for bitcoin to be successful. That would, if anything, only give them a
moral advantage.

We just need to focus on what bitcoin can do and let people choose what works best for them.  Better than trying to manipulate the ignorant
emotionally is to help relieve them of that ignorance somewhat with information.

Is bitcoin so lacking in positive qualities that we need to play these unethical marketing games to try and impose it on the masses? 

Do we really need to become raving conspiracy clowns?

 

Look, I'm all for an ideal world where we can all play Dalai Lama and Gandhi and let everyone decide for themselves and do what they want to do.  That's fine, and I would prefer it.

Practically, we live within a global economy driven by capitalism, and if you want any idea to succeed in a capitalist market, it will likely be done through competition in any of its various forms.

Your words are dubious.  Appealing to someone's intellect to convince them is also manipulation, though ironically, perhaps the words I chose earlier such as 'brainwash' appealed to YOUR emotion, (albeit negatively) and so here you are stating what you are stating. 

In either case, appealing to emotion works and it elicits a reaction.  If the intent is to deceive for a greater good, and I don't believe it was, then that's what we call a little white lie, and little white lies are ethically justified in their own right.  By the way, I love that ugly sweater your wearing.


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May 11, 2012, 02:37:14 AM
 #68

Your words are dubious.  Appealing to someone's intellect to convince them is also manipulation, though ironically, perhaps the words I chose earlier such as 'brainwash' appealed to YOUR emotion, (albeit negatively) and so here you are stating what you are stating.

What I am saying, which might be a little different from Meni and Mollison, even though I agree pretty much with the points they make as well,
is that bitcoin's positive qualities can speak for themselves, once they are communicated in such a way as to be understood. No need to try and
convince or persuade people with any games, intellectual, emotional or otherwise.  I certainly feel bank bashing and belligerence will only tend
to obscure those qualities, especially if you throw in any "white lies", as you call it, which would only give ammunition to bitcoin's critics, in this
war some seem to want to start. 
 
Quote
In either case, appealing to emotion works and it elicits a reaction...

Often the opposite from what is intended... often resented when the audience feels they are being manipulated...
often having little to do with the actual subject of the advertising/promotional campaign... and sure often successful if one is
very skillful or very lucky, but I would prefer to see people respond to bitcoin itself. Why do some seem to be in desperate
need of a reaction? Why try to push the river?  Why not allow it to build organically; slowly, but deeply...
   
Your words didn't bother me emotionally or otherwise. And I am not trying to push anyone's buttons either.
These are just my opinions on this subject. 

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May 11, 2012, 07:26:33 AM
 #69

The most effective marketing invokes lots of emotions. Both negative and positive. Deal with it.

Or if you don't like it, make your own marketing video.

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May 11, 2012, 06:43:10 PM
 #70

The most effective marketing invokes lots of emotions. Both negative and positive. Deal with it.

Or if you don't like it, make your own marketing video.


An emotional reaction... causing you to totally miss my point...

Thanks for helping to make my point.   Grin
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May 17, 2012, 01:55:47 AM
 #71

Illum Productions explains a bit about the production of the video

Bitcoin to the Rescue…
May 16th, 2012

http://illumproductions.com/blog/?p=488

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May 21, 2012, 03:09:24 AM
 #72

For me it's a bit too much government bashing and too little actual information.
Yeah, but you're probably a geek and think cute cat videos have too little actual information, too.

The video gets a +1 from me; effective marketing appeals to emotion, not intellect.


Agreed, great job on the video.

+1 on the video for promo and marketing

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May 22, 2012, 12:11:26 AM
 #73

Would it be possible to port the video to the webm format

yes

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May 22, 2012, 06:27:32 PM
 #74

I too was confused by the term "screw banks".

After watching the video I immediately went to a local bank, bored a hole in the side of it and had intercourse with the bank.

Boy was I embarrassed when I came back to this thread and read what it really meant.

Some people just do not understand slang.

You need to put a disclaimer..."do not go have sexual intercourse with a bank". If it saves one other person from the chaffing it would be worth it.

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