TheButterZone
Legendary
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Activity: 3038
Merit: 1032
RIP Mommy
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September 30, 2014, 04:06:57 AM |
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Saying that you don't trust someone because of their behavior is completely valid.
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sidhujag
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Activity: 2044
Merit: 1005
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September 30, 2014, 04:10:33 AM |
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Tax is necessitated by a broken system with no risidual benefits... Tx fees are to use a service to provide benefit. different things.
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sifter
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September 30, 2014, 04:57:50 AM |
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You can always lower it, but without your transaction is going to take quite a while to confirm.
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Envrin
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September 30, 2014, 06:30:47 AM |
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I'm with ya. I mean, having to pay $0.04 to send a $20,000 wire instantly from the convenience of your home, without any banks, forms or questions? That's just ridiculous.
heh.
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awesome31312 (OP)
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September 30, 2014, 07:41:50 AM |
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I pay zero fee TXs all the time and they get confirms. The Constitution only applies to the government. Nobody is armed forcing you to pay TX fees.
True, but paying at least a small txn fee helps the protocol. How? The protocol says I don't have to pay a fee for my aged coin TXNs to be relayed. Try paying a satoshi to one of your alternative wallets with a 0.00000000 BTC fee There is no legit reason why you would want to do this. Sending this kind of TX takes up other people's resources while you are not engaging any kind of commerce. Even the laxo trade spam TXs are paying huge amounts of TX fees to the tune of ~.048 on some of them. If you want to use bitcoin and not pay any TX fees then you can engage in off-chain transactions, although you would need to trust your money to be held by some other third party That really makes sense
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Account recovered 08-12-2019
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Buffer Overflow
Legendary
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Activity: 1652
Merit: 1016
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September 30, 2014, 08:02:54 AM |
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We are FORCED to pay a tax upon every transaction, and they say Bitcoin doesn't have any taxes? That's just pure crap. Taxation is unconstitutional theft via armed extortion. In Bitcoin's case, it's unavoidable, and is without the armed extortion (YOU ARE FORCED TO PAY).
Well this ill researched rant is a steaming pile of poo isn't it. Nowhere in the core protocol does it FORCE you to pay any transaction fees. But likewise nowhere in the protocol does it FORCE miners to include your transactions into their blocks. Sit down in a quiet room and think about that for five minutes.
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Spoetnik
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Merit: 1011
FUD Philanthropist™
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September 30, 2014, 09:00:41 AM |
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I pay zero fee TXs all the time and they get confirms. The Constitution only applies to the government. Nobody is armed forcing you to pay TX fees.
how ? people may not know.. i use Multibit and it forces a fee that is NOT cheap ! if i want to send $500,000 worth of BTC it would cost me 0.0001 BTC and if i want to send 0.0002 BTC it costs me 0.0001 BTC ..not good ! the cost of sending the occasional small amount is bullshit ! and i don't want to hear any excuses about it bloating the block chain or something. if sending around small amounts is a problem then fix it . edit: and guys don't forget that guys abuse what is popular with a strange hold. if the top 3 wallets enforce a fee then no.. actually YOU sit down and "think about it" lol
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FUD first & ask questions later™
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jdany
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September 30, 2014, 09:28:19 AM |
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Bitcoin is not a free service. It's a product that must compete with the marketplace, and be exceptional vs. its competitors. The transaction fees are a necessary component to keep our infrastructure growing.
The beauty of bitcoin: If there is something you'd like change, go change it. Create an off-chain small transaction service.
Then, you get to set the rules and charge whatever you like.
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Envrin
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September 30, 2014, 09:30:26 AM |
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the cost of sending the occasional small amount is bullshit ! and i don't want to hear any excuses about it bloating the block chain or something. if sending around small amounts is a problem then fix it . Fix what? The tx fee helps cover resources, not the amount you're sending. It takes the EXACT same amount of resources to send 500 BTC versus 0.0002 BTC, so why should the tx fee be any different?
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umair127
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September 30, 2014, 09:32:20 AM |
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I dont know why u have problem with tx fee, what I have problem is the middleman overcharging to exchange btc to fiat. I have to pay WU and the middleman to collect the fiat which really sucks.
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Buffer Overflow
Legendary
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Activity: 1652
Merit: 1016
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September 30, 2014, 10:05:27 AM |
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I dont know why u have problem with tx fee
Because certain people are more interested in dreaming how rich they will become instead of learning how bitcoin actually works. Every transaction that is included inside a block has a cost involved to include that transaction. Who pays for that cost? We have 3 choices: 1) Miners are FORCED to included transactions, absorbing the cost themselves. 2) Users are FORCED to included transaction fees to pay for the cost. 3) Nobody is FORCED to pay the cost. Users give an incentive to miners to include their transaction. Miners may do it for free or meet somewhere in the middle, so both pay half. Bitcoin uses option 3.
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Light
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September 30, 2014, 10:16:53 AM |
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Create an off-chain small transaction service.
Not sure about you, but I for one would avoid those like the plague unless they have had a crap ton of vetting as well as having their identity well known. Far too many off-chain "wallet" system scams have been seen over the years. @OP: When the block rewards eventually run out, what incentive do miners have to continually mine blocks and confirm transactions? Fundamentally, people won't do anything without some sort of reward for their work - and you expect miners to do so for free (actually at a loss if you count electricity).
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jdany
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
September 30, 2014, 11:05:09 AM |
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Create an off-chain small transaction service.
Not sure about you, but I for one would avoid those like the plague unless they have had a crap ton of vetting as well as having their identity well known. Far too many off-chain "wallet" system scams have been seen over the years. @OP: When the block rewards eventually run out, what incentive do miners have to continually mine blocks and confirm transactions? Fundamentally, people won't do anything without some sort of reward for their work - and you expect miners to do so for free (actually at a loss if you count electricity). The market would prove that a small transaction fee is well worth the security of being part of the chain. I'm almost certain of it.
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awesome31312 (OP)
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September 30, 2014, 11:13:53 AM |
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It's $0.04 right now, but when Bitcoin is worth 100k, the transaction fee would be worth $4,000
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Account recovered 08-12-2019
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Krona Rev
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
September 30, 2014, 11:48:19 AM |
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If you want to pay 0 tx fees (which I don't recommend), I have three words for you:
createrawtransaction signrawtransaction sendrawtransaction
The power is in your hands.
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awesome31312 (OP)
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September 30, 2014, 12:19:35 PM |
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Seriously, what's the rush? It's not like I'm paying for emergency services (which by the way, are not feasible to pay for using Bitcoin and is therefore the reason Bitcoin can never replace fiat)
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Account recovered 08-12-2019
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bitllionaire
Legendary
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Activity: 1120
Merit: 1000
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September 30, 2014, 12:26:00 PM |
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use Electrum and set zero fees you risk to lose your bitcoins
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shawshankinmate37927
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September 30, 2014, 12:26:55 PM |
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We are FORCED to pay a tax upon every transaction, and they say Bitcoin doesn't have any taxes? That's just pure crap. Taxation is unconstitutional theft via armed extortion. In Bitcoin's case, it's unavoidable, and is without the armed extortion (YOU ARE FORCED TO PAY).
Sounds like you should probably just stick with Western Union.
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"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning." - Henry Ford
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