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Author Topic: Letter to the EFF  (Read 35405 times)
ichi
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August 17, 2010, 08:07:01 PM
 #61

Thanks.  I pledged.

In this thread, lfm writes that "I see about 850 connections to the IRC channel."  Is that our best estimate?
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kiba
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August 17, 2010, 08:08:34 PM
 #62

Thanks.  I pledged.

In this thread, lfm writes that "I see about 850 connections to the IRC channel."  Is that our best estimate?

That's quite an assumption. It would mean there are 1 user for each nodes. It is more probable than some users run more nodes than other.

ichi
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August 17, 2010, 08:14:04 PM
 #63

OK, just say 850 nodes, then.  Could we assume that all members of this forum are users?  What's that number?  And would exchanges report numbers of distinct clients?
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August 17, 2010, 08:17:50 PM
 #64

OK, just say 850 nodes, then.  Could we assume that all members of this forum are users?  What's that number?  And would exchanges report numbers of distinct clients?

We have 691 users, with 9818 posts. This is about 36 posts a day, 3 members a day, and 15 users online each day.

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August 17, 2010, 11:39:43 PM
 #65

Thanks.  I pledged.

In this thread, lfm writes that "I see about 850 connections to the IRC channel."  Is that our best estimate?

That's quite an assumption. It would mean there are 1 user for each nodes. It is more probable than some users run more nodes than other.

Nor would all nodes show up on the IRC channel.  I, for one, would not.  IRC is blocked for me, so my client on my thumbdrive wouldn't show up, and I imagine that mybitcoin.com would only count for one.  Any user's client who was offline and not interested in generating coins wouldn't likely show up either, since is a good chance that he turns off his desktop at night.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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August 18, 2010, 03:15:26 AM
 #66

Thanks, kiba  Smiley

FWIW, I support dropping "cryptocurrency".  Bitcoin is what it is,..


YES! Why bring in banking terms? This project is as different from banking as blogs are from newspapers.

And very good work, kiba, but who is going to guarantee that Bitcoins are worth xxx USD? Not me! (What is a USD worth, anyway?)



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August 18, 2010, 03:20:48 AM
 #67

[Duplicate, sorry!]

ichi
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August 18, 2010, 03:28:42 AM
 #68

A USD is worth somewhat less than 1 mg gold, according to the current spot price.  Without active manipulation, the current equilibrium value is probably closer to 0.1 mg gold.
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August 18, 2010, 03:47:00 AM
 #69

A USD is worth somewhat less than 1 mg gold, according to the current spot price.  Without active manipulation, the current equilibrium value is probably closer to 0.1 mg gold.
You're thinking of troy ounces. One ounce of gold is worth about $1226.00. There are 31.1034768 grams in a troy ounce, so a gram is worth about $39.42. A dollar is worth about 0.000815661 troy ounces or 0.025369883 grams of gold.

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ichi
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August 18, 2010, 04:49:35 AM
 #70

DOH!

Right, 25 mg ostensibly, and 2.5 mg really.

How embarrassing  Embarrassed
fresno
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August 18, 2010, 05:13:49 AM
 #71

No, dammit! Somebody might trade x amount of gold for a FRN, but there is no guaranteed conversion. A FRN isn't worth squat, and they'll tell you that! Too bad Bitcoin isn't that smart.

ichi
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August 18, 2010, 06:45:43 AM
 #72

@fresno

You asked: "What is a USD worth, anyway?"

Perhaps we should have agreed on the meaning of "worth" before I answered.  In a fundamental sense, we agree that they're worthless.  There's no guaranteed worth, anyway.

OTOH, next weekend, I can take 9,999 USD in cash to a coin show, and (with luck) drive home with seven one-ounce Canadian Maple Leaf bullion coins, and change.  Would the seller be a fool?  Or would I?  Only time will tell.

So, how much gold is a Bitcoin worth?  Or rather, how many Bitcoin could I get for a 0.1 ounce Maple Leaf bullion coin?  I might sell a few if the price were right, just as a lark.  Just one per customer, though, and I'd need a mailing address.  And you'd need to pay me before I mailed the coin.

Edit:  How about y'all send Bitcoin contributions for the EFF to me, and I'll mail Maple Leaf bullion coins to them  Wink  Or would that be confusing the message?
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August 18, 2010, 06:58:51 AM
 #73

I'm confused.  How about you send the maple leaf bullions to me and I'll let you pay to me in bitcoins to cover their costs.  So as to show a bit of generosity, I'll even let you pay a bit extra, maybe 1.5x to provide more incentive for you.
ichi
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August 18, 2010, 08:32:49 AM
 #74

 Roll Eyes

OK, just drop any reference in the letter to any of those worthless fiat currencies.  Yes?

I'll still sell a few 0.1 oz gold bullion coins for Bitcoin.  Bidding for the first starts at 2,500 Bitcoin, and will close at midnight Sunday (GMT).  The buyer will cover postage, and accept all risks.
fresno
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August 18, 2010, 01:57:14 PM
 #75

@fresno

Edit:  How about y'all send Bitcoin contributions for the EFF to me, and I'll mail Maple Leaf bullion coins to them  Wink  Or would that be confusing the message?

Whose side are you on?!!

We donate Bitcoins to EFF. They do whatever they want with them. Maybe they'll discover something we haven't thought of.

Stop converting Bitcoins into everything under the sun! That's not our business. We regulate Bitcoins and keep the system working. That is all.

Let somebody else convert Bitcoins into drachmas and poker chips. Or maybe do it yourself, on your own site. Keep Bitcoin out of it.


RHorning
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August 18, 2010, 04:16:26 PM
 #76

Roll Eyes

OK, just drop any reference in the letter to any of those worthless fiat currencies.  Yes?

I'll still sell a few 0.1 oz gold bullion coins for Bitcoin.  Bidding for the first starts at 2,500 Bitcoin, and will close at midnight Sunday (GMT).  The buyer will cover postage, and accept all risks.

Just send me the equivalent in e-gold and I'll be fine.  For that matter, I've sort of wondered why e-gold doesn't have an exchange market yet?  The largest problem with gold is that the stuff is heavy as gold is nearly one of the most dense metals you can find... and one of the earlier methods to detect counterfeiting or dilution of gold bullion with "cheaper" metals and most heavier metals are generally worth more than gold.  In fact, when "panning" for gold you depend on the density of the metal in order to extract it out of the other materials.  If you have an actual use for gold for artistic or industrial uses, it may make sense to ship it but it is a lousy currency precisely due to its weight.

In terms of sending a letter to the EFF, the K.I.S.S. principle should apply here.  Don't get side tracked into anything other than presenting this project in a clean and simple manner.  To note that there are several exchanges that will convert Bitcoins to other forms of money is useful perhaps as a side note, but that should also be a demonstration of its value as a currency.

I would encourage the EFF to set up a node to receive donations, and in fact I would be willing to at least donate a small portion of the coins I've already generated to the EFF.  What they choose to do with them afterward is their business, but it would seem like something they should at least be aware of, and perhaps even to note that there may be some legal challenges ahead with Bitcoins that perhaps could use some of their expertise in terms of protecting both the digital frontier and to note another form of innovation that is introduced by a free and open internet. If it wasn't for efforts of organizations like the EFF, Bitcoins simply wouldn't exist as software at all.   To me, this is also an excellent example of positive good that can come from peer to peer networks.

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ichi
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August 18, 2010, 07:24:16 PM
 #77

Whose side are you on?!!
Bitcoin, gold/silver and gold/silver-based crypto exchange systems, yes.  Fiat stuff, no.
ichi
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August 18, 2010, 07:29:11 PM
 #78

Just send me the equivalent in e-gold and I'll be fine.  For that matter, I've sort of wondered why e-gold doesn't have an exchange market yet? ...
Not e-gold!!!  They were hosed, and I'd never trust them.

If you want to buy stuff locally, and the net is down, you'd better have some gold and/or silver.
MoonShadow
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August 18, 2010, 07:37:03 PM
 #79

If you want to buy stuff locally, and the net is down, you'd better have some gold and/or silver.

Personally, I prefer silver rounds.  I keep them in my desk.  I would recommend worrying about getting out of debt and building up your pantry closet first, however.  If it ever gets to the point that I'm trading silver as the common currency, it's *already* bad enough that most people won't be willing to trade anything at all.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
ichi
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August 18, 2010, 07:52:53 PM
 #80

Yes, silver "dollars" for small purchases, and gold for long-term savings.  All physical, in our own well-hidden safe.  We also have freeze-dried food, total-nutrition tablets, guns and ammunition, and we live in a close-knit community far from large cities.
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