CCminer(SP-MOD) Modded GPU kernels.

[GOLDbarISmine]

I am not convinced dual mining in geforce cards but radeon is another story.

[rednoW]

I'm almost 100% sure this is fixed with GCN 2 and higher cards. I have not seen this with Claymore miner on my AMD rigs, they're still mining at pretty much exactly what they were when they first came out. If you're getting subpar hashrate either your memory speed is lower, you have bad type of memory, or you haven't tweaked your latency properly. Hawaii is GCN 3, Polaris is GCN 4.

If it isn't fixed, do you have a source besides 'you can see it with claymore now' which isn't observable?

you are either lazy or stupid. This is the biggest news in mining and discussed and admitted everywhere. Just use --benchmark option in claymore and you'll see that polaris cards are loosing 0.1-0.2 mhs from each new DAG. This started 2 epochs ego.

[Amph]

well almost everyone here have 10 rig right? everyone here already roi'ed with his rig, minus newcomers which doesn't matter

i'll make an example, when xcn was at 20 satoshi, with 10 rig you could have mined 1 million a day, instead of buying the same amount for 0.2 btc or $500

i would have paid only 1 day of electricity to mine that 1 million...which is basically free coins

Bad trolling, sorry about that. But your math still sucks. And your example sucks even more and you know that ))

Here's the full quote:

PS. speaking about 100x, pallas is currently sitting on something very interesting.

XCN? If polo or bittrex list it again, we can se a spike in the price..

nah too old, and it's better to buy price is almost dead, you can buy 1M with 0.08 or less

So you didn't buy? ))

To be more on topic, how is your xcn hashrate poolside? 1070 should do at least 15-16MH but can you see that on pool?

at that time was different, the profit was very bad, the diff was very high and the value lower, but now is't different nitpicking from the past to prove a point in the future is a mistake

my example doesn't sucks, there is nothing wrong about what i said, it's better to mine if you have already the gear that roi'ed, buying is utterly stupid in that case

[bensam1231]

If you're worth your salt as a miner you should be dual mining (which you aren't doing).

Lol. Dual mining is not always the best way to go. You're pushing your personal opinion like it's a fact — just the same way you're doing it with your "polaris are better cards than gtx 1070". It's not as black and white as you're trying to paint it. Ideally we'd all have our own warehouses with virtually unlimited power and cooling, and then sure — dual mining it is. But in the real world (where most miners live, including the ones that are "worth their salt"), there's always a power limit. For me, there's a couple locations I can put my rigs in "for free", but when I run out of space/power in those — I can only rent apartments and put new rigs there. Renting is the cheapest way to add more rigs in my area, but it's still quite an expense. Cards are a lot hotter and louder in dual mining, consuming significantly more power, and it's just not worth it for me. I can run ~60 cards in dual mining and hit my power limit per location, or I can run ~80-90 cards in ETH only mining, hitting the same power limit in the same location.. the 2nd scenario results in more btc/day. I'd rather invest in extra GPUs and run them in ETH only than dual mine — more profitable in my case, especially at the current crazy high crypto exchange rates.

Personal opinion...? Neither a 580 or a 1070 makes more without dual mining compared to mining ethereum straight (including power).

I'm not painting as black and white... lol, hence why we're talking about volume of coins, market stability, emission, and saturation.

You're trying to argue power costs. A 580 and a 1070 use about the same amount of power while dual mining. Furthermore, you're comparing using about $.10 at $.1KWH per day for an additional $1.3 (eth+sia) while dual mining. Electricity costs stopped mattering this last spring relatively speaking. They may matter again in the future, but as of right now you're literally taking a $1.2 loss because you don't want to spend more power. I'm sure since you're a miner worth his own weight you've already looked into this.

You'd have to have extremely expensive power to justify not dual mining. Either way a 1070 is using just about the same amount of power as a 580 while dual mining (tweaking your voltage reduces voltage on 580s as well). The only algo a 1070 can mine while reducing clockspeed (IE TDP) and get ahead without a proportional reduction to hashrate is Equihash, even then power costs in no way justify it.

Yeah, you're arguing cooling. If you're using AC this conversation is done.

Look into small warehouses in cheap parts of town. Your solution of 'filling rental units' with miners is completely asinine and not something most people will encounter. Right along the same lines, here's a better idea which is still stupid, rent a house with a 200 amp service. Most newer houses (80s forward) will have a 200 amp service. Once again it doesn't really matter as power usage is very similar and your scenario applies to both AMD and Nvidia.

There is no efficiency benefit to using Nvidia over AMD. MAYBE if you're comparing a 1060 while mining to a 580, sure... But we aren't, because once again the price classes for mining are completely different compared to mining. A 1070 will make less then a 580, cost more, and use about the same amount of power. There literally is no other way to break it down Nvidia is absolutely a terrible choice. The only people that are disagreeing are those that have no experience with both types of hardware, experience with mining multiple cryptos, or are stuck on this 'AMD has to be terrible at power lululueoolrer'.

And no, they aren't 'a lot hotter and louder'. That's written by someone who has no experience with dual mining, you're basing it off what you read in claymores thread, by other retards who are also regurgitating what they heard without actually taking time to test it themselves. And then 'oh my 22awg wire connectors melted, claymore is at fault, never dual mining again!'. This is why most of you aren't worth talking to.

I'm almost 100% sure this is fixed with GCN 2 and higher cards. I have not seen this with Claymore miner on my AMD rigs, they're still mining at pretty much exactly what they were when they first came out. If you're getting subpar hashrate either your memory speed is lower, you have bad type of memory, or you haven't tweaked your latency properly. Hawaii is GCN 3, Polaris is GCN 4.

If it isn't fixed, do you have a source besides 'you can see it with claymore now' which isn't observable?

you are either lazy or stupid. This is the biggest news in mining and discussed and admitted everywhere. Just use --benchmark option in claymore and you'll see that polaris cards are loosing 0.1-0.2 mhs from each new DAG. This started 2 epochs ego.

Nice source. That's sarcasm, you literally didn't list one and cited 'common knowledge' for something I'm not finding sources on. Cards do lose hashrate per epoch, all of them do. That has to do with dealing with bigger and bigger epochs, it's nothing exclusive to AMD.

But since it's 'discussed and admitted' everywhere I'm sure you can easily find me a source for this, right? XD

[Genoil]

it is true bensam. i tried on my old wonky miner and it shows the same drop. dunno if it's exactly the same issue, afaik AMD arch doesn't even have a TLB. now let's see how that 1070 holds up 

[rednoW]

it is true bensam. i tried on my old wonky miner and it shows the same drop. dunno if it's exactly the same issue, afaik AMD arch doesn't even have a TLB. now let's see how that 1070 holds up  

Just tested my r9 390 with Genoil on block number 10000000 (mem usage ~3.8G) - 17mhs ))) (~epoch 333)
So Hawaii is also heavily effected but later ))
GTX1070 on block number 10000000 (mem usage ~3.8G) - 31mhs - not effected )) (~epoch 333)

[wacko]

Look into small warehouses in cheap parts of town. Your solution of 'filling rental units' with miners is completely asinine and not something most people will encounter. Right along the same lines, here's a better idea which is still stupid, rent a house with a 200 amp service. Most newer houses (80s forward) will have a 200 amp service. Once again it doesn't really matter as power usage is very similar and your scenario applies to both AMD and Nvidia.

Are you from the United States by any chance? It's just Americans for some reason often speak like there's only US on the map of the world and nothing else exists out there, so they assume a shitload of stuff about life (sometimes applicable to their country only) and push their opinions based on those assumptions. I live in the opposite part of the world, and not only electricity costs are different here, the renting situation is also very different: there are no "80s forward houses" anywhere around, 99% of people here live in apartments of high-rise buildings. Renting warehouses is a lot more complicated and expensive here than renting apartments, it's just the way that market and legal system are in my country (electricity rates are multiple times higher for warehouses, internet connections also are, there's no affordable insurance for those locations and list goes on and on).

And no, they aren't 'a lot hotter and louder'. That's written by someone who has no experience with dual mining, you're basing it off what you read in claymores thread, by other retards who are also regurgitating what they heard without actually taking time to test it themselves.

How do you even make this shit up? I mean, how do you assume things about people you know nothing about? I've got ~ 40% AMD cards and ~ 60% nvidia at the moment, and out of AMDs ~90% are Polaris and ~10% are Fiji. Yes, Polaris cards ARE A LOT HOTTER AND LOUDER in dual mining, and I haven't even read the claymore's thread yet — I'm basing it on my own experience. I run all my RX470/480 cards at 0.9V voltage, and ~1140-1200 MHz core, they're all rock solid stable at those settings in ETH only (and most other algos like equihash etc). Reducing the voltage further for most of the cards I've got requires significant downclocking as well, so it's not worth it (maybe ok for ETH, which relies on memory more, but I also mine other algos with AMD cards sometimes, and managing different overclocks for different algos is too much hassle for too little profit). On average at this voltage each rx 480 consumes about 130W from the wall in ETH only. My target temp is 60 Celsius and most cards are either quiet (like Nitros, spinning only at ~ 1500 rpm) or moderately noisy (like Gigabyte G1 cards, XFX, Strix etc). It's all very different in dual mining: the consumption from each card goes up to ~ 170-180W, and not only they become hot and noisy (no chance to stay under 60 Celsius anymore, most cards will run their fans at 100% now), some of them aren't even stable at 0.9V in dual mining. So I either have to increase the voltage, making them consume even more than they already do, or reduce the clocks. I did spend quite some time trying to find a balance with dual mining, and it's just not there for me. Yes, I could be making an extra ~$1 from a card, but I don't want it like this, it's just too much power spent — I'm making more money from running more cards in less power hungry mining modes (like ETH only for Polaris cards). Again, I am power limited (and most miners around the world are), and within those power limits it's more profitable right now to run more cards in less demanding modes than to run less cards in dual mining.

And 480/580 vs 1070 is not even really a choice here, cause there's absolutely no AMD cards available anywhere close to me. All the European online stores that I can order from like ComputerUniverse etc are also out of stock. Sometimes 580s pop up in local stores, but usually for ~ $500-600. I'd rather buy a GTX 1080 for that price. Or even a GTX 1070, which I still find a better card than 480/580. Right now, with the current ETH prices, It's earning a bit more than single 480/580 in ETH only, and a bit less if you compare it to Polaris in dual mining. But for the past year or so, most of the time 1070 was a better earner with Zec/Lbry/Skein/etc. AMD were only really good with ETH, and who knows what's gonna happen with ETH profitability in the next months? It can easily go down to the previous levels, like it was 3 or 6 months ago, and 1070 will then again have an advantage. It is a faster card in general, no matter what you say about it — just based on its "core count | core clock | ipc" ratio. That's why it's faster in games, and faster in most mining algos that don't rely heavily on gpu memory (like ETH does). I understand how Polaris is now a little bit more profitable in dual mining, but saying "Nvidia is absolutely a terrible choice" when comparing 580 to 1070 at the current prices? Seriously? Sounds like you need a chill pill, a temporary extra $1 profit from 480/580 dual mining doesn't suddenly make 1070 a "terrible choice". Not even close, you're overreacting over such a trivial difference.

[AzzAz]

Are you arguing with bensam?
Man, every your answer will bring 10 his...

[antantti]

at that time was different, the profit was very bad, the diff was very high and the value lower, but now is't different nitpicking from the past to prove a point in the future is a mistake

Nobody is trying to prove anything, that is a true case and true numbers. No ifs and buts.

my example doesn't sucks, there is nothing wrong about what i said

Everything sucks on it, starting from 1,000,000 daily mined coins.

it's better to mine if you have already the gear that roi'ed, buying is utterly stupid in that case

No, you mine what is the most profitable (€) and use some of those profits to buy something that is cheap. Something that goes up in value, it doesn't have to be a coin. Otherwise you are not maximizing your profits.

it is true bensam. i tried on my old wonky miner and it shows the same drop. dunno if it's exactly the same issue, afaik AMD arch doesn't even have a TLB. now let's see how that 1070 holds up  

Hmm, now this is interesting. People are desperetaly trying to buy my gpu´s, maybe I should start thinking of selling.

[bensam1231]

Look into small warehouses in cheap parts of town. Your solution of 'filling rental units' with miners is completely asinine and not something most people will encounter. Right along the same lines, here's a better idea which is still stupid, rent a house with a 200 amp service. Most newer houses (80s forward) will have a 200 amp service. Once again it doesn't really matter as power usage is very similar and your scenario applies to both AMD and Nvidia.

Are you from the United States by any chance? It's just Americans for some reason often speak like there's only US on the map of the world and nothing else exists out there, so they assume a shitload of stuff about life (sometimes applicable to their country only) and push their opinions based on those assumptions. I live in the opposite part of the world, and not only electricity costs are different here, the renting situation is also very different: there are no "80s forward houses" anywhere around, 99% of people here live in apartments of high-rise buildings. Renting warehouses is a lot more complicated and expensive here than renting apartments, it's just the way that market and legal system are in my country (electricity rates are multiple times higher for warehouses, internet connections also are, there's no affordable insurance for those locations and list goes on and on).

And why should the 'average' be based around outliers? If you're having issues and need a highly complex and completely outside of the norm solution why would you ever reply to people discussing what the average is going to be exhibiting?

Good for you, you have a couple rigs and because of where you live in addition to the circumstances you're under it's never going to amount to much because you're limited by them. That in no way, shape, or form should influence what I'm talking about as the majority of miners will not be operating under the same circumstance. In other words your response wasn't even worth replying to because now you're pointing out that you're a outlier and really no one will ever experience the same issues (which is funny because you were pointing out that a lot of people are renting extra rentals...). Even if you live in euro you can still rent warehouses, those don't magically disappear outside of the US. Matter of a fact, if you live in a underdeveloped country the chances of you finding cheap warehouses that are derelict and can be 'reactivated' is extremely high. In other words you have a better chance of figuring that out.

It's like when I was arguing with someone who was trying to push his $.4KWH energy usage as 'common'. That's silly.

You definitely have a weird system if warehouse energy (industrial) use is higher then commercial or residential. I almost want to say you live in Brazil will energy is essentially free for normal citizens (but of course you can get arrested for over using it).

The funny thing about this, is even when presenting this scenario, once again you're losing a massive amount of profit for no gain. There is no efficiency gain by mining eth over eth+sia and a 580 and 1070 use about the same amount of power. So what you're describing doesn't even matter, we already covered this. You just don't understand how things are weighted when it comes to cryptos and are stuck on the 'nvidia is always more efficiency and a $400 GPU can't be worth as much as a $200 one'.

And no, they aren't 'a lot hotter and louder'. That's written by someone who has no experience with dual mining, you're basing it off what you read in claymores thread, by other retards who are also regurgitating what they heard without actually taking time to test it themselves.

How do you even make this shit up? I mean, how do you assume things about people you know nothing about? I've got ~ 40% AMD cards and ~ 60% nvidia at the moment, and out of AMDs ~90% are Polaris and ~10% are Fiji. Yes, Polaris cards ARE A LOT HOTTER AND LOUDER in dual mining, and I haven't even read the claymore's thread yet — I'm basing it on my own experience. I run all my RX470/480 cards at 0.9V voltage, and ~1140-1200 MHz core, they're all rock solid stable at those settings in ETH only (and most other algos like equihash etc). Reducing the voltage further for most of the cards I've got requires significant downclocking as well, so it's not worth it (maybe ok for ETH, which relies on memory more, but I also mine other algos with AMD cards sometimes, and managing different overclocks for different algos is too much hassle for too little profit). On average at this voltage each rx 480 consumes about 130W from the wall in ETH only. My target temp is 60 Celsius and most cards are either quiet (like Nitros, spinning only at ~ 1500 rpm) or moderately noisy (like Gigabyte G1 cards, XFX, Strix etc). It's all very different in dual mining: the consumption from each card goes up to ~ 170-180W, and not only they become hot and noisy (no chance to stay under 60 Celsius anymore, most cards will run their fans at 100% now), some of them aren't even stable at 0.9V in dual mining. So I either have to increase the voltage, making them consume even more than they already do, or reduce the clocks. I did spend quite some time trying to find a balance with dual mining, and it's just not there for me. Yes, I could be making an extra ~$1 from a card, but I don't want it like this, it's just too much power spent — I'm making more money from running more cards in less power hungry mining modes (like ETH only for Polaris cards). Again, I am power limited (and most miners around the world are), and within those power limits it's more profitable right now to run more cards in less demanding modes than to run less cards in dual mining.

And 480/580 vs 1070 is not even really a choice here, cause there's absolutely no AMD cards available anywhere close to me. All the European online stores that I can order from like ComputerUniverse etc are also out of stock. Sometimes 580s pop up in local stores, but usually for ~ $500-600. I'd rather buy a GTX 1080 for that price. Or even a GTX 1070, which I still find a better card than 480/580. Right now, with the current ETH prices, It's earning a bit more than single 480/580 in ETH only, and a bit less if you compare it to Polaris in dual mining. But for the past year or so, most of the time 1070 was a better earner with Zec/Lbry/Skein/etc. AMD were only really good with ETH, and who knows what's gonna happen with ETH profitability in the next months? It can easily go down to the previous levels, like it was 3 or 6 months ago, and 1070 will then again have an advantage. It is a faster card in general, no matter what you say about it — just based on its "core count | core clock | ipc" ratio. That's why it's faster in games, and faster in most mining algos that don't rely heavily on gpu memory (like ETH does). I understand how Polaris is now a little bit more profitable in dual mining, but saying "Nvidia is absolutely a terrible choice" when comparing 580 to 1070 at the current prices? Seriously? Sounds like you need a chill pill, a temporary extra $1 profit from 480/580 dual mining doesn't suddenly make 1070 a "terrible choice". Not even close, you're overreacting over such a trivial difference.

They aren't. You're putting your hand over the top of them and go 'oh more heat is coming out of them'. How about talking some watts, with a wall meter, instead of your hand or looking at the core voltage and reported energy 'use'. You're going to use about 40-50 more watts of energy to dual mine. Of course that seems like a 'huge' increase in heat because it's a 30% increase in energy. However at $.1KWH which I described earlier that's an additional $.12 per day to run those GPUs and it nets you an additional $1.3 per day. You're losing $1.18 per day by not dual mining. A 1070 will use less energy while dual mining (it also makes less) as it doesn't have the assembly changes yet, however you're still netting an additional $.6 including power.

Lol, even with the numbers you described, it's still more profitable mining in eth+sia by a long shot.

If you're talking about AMD shortage, I mentioned that earlier before we even started with this. That's not a point. I never said purchasing a 580 for $600. I said a 580 is worth more then a 1070. If we compare that to market prices it's worth more then $400 cost to buy a 1070.

AMD is not only good at ETH, that's why you buy a 580 instead of old R9-290s or something, also why you dual mine with them instead of buying old hardware that can only mine Eth.

You know what's more likely to drop in price? Niche markets. IE coins that don't have a lot of volume and buy protection. You have very little understanding of how cryptos work. It takes a lot less to crash a small market (and manipulate it) then it does a large market. If you talk about something like Zcash and look at volume, it will take a lot less and be more likely for Zcash to crash then Ethereum, just like it's more likely Ethereum will crash then Bitcoin. I mentioned this earlier and it's one of the points I've iterated numerous times. AMD mining is on strong mainstream coins where as Nvidia is on either coins that don't earn much at all (Zcash is earning $5.88 in revenue right now) or coins that can very easily lose all their value or become over saturated.

A 1070 isn't faster in mining most algos compared to a 580, it depends on the software that's being used (AMD also has a lot more support there) and how the architecture reacts to it, once again you were using your assumption that because the card is faster at gaming and is priced accordingly it will be in the rest of the crypto scene, that's not the way it works. When you have Wolf and Claymore floating around a lot of algos get worked pretty hard for AMD, matter of a fact that's one of the complaints I've had about Nvidia over the years that I've posted in this very same thread. If your assumption were right Equihash would be earning a pittance on AMD hardware compared to Nvidia, but it's not. It's just not mined by AMD because you can earn a lot more mining eth or eth+sia/dcr/pasc.

'Temporary' is a very ambiguous term. A 580 has been earning more then a 1070 for the last four months. Back in January they were earning the same and at the time you could purchase them for $200 a pop. I guess if half a year is 'temporary' then, it is and it can be if we start looking at decades and millennia. I'm sure that'll help everyone.

[bensam1231]

it is true bensam. i tried on my old wonky miner and it shows the same drop. dunno if it's exactly the same issue, afaik AMD arch doesn't even have a TLB. now let's see how that 1070 holds up  

Yes this is true... Something else to remember is Ethereum profit on a 480/580 isn't just limited to Ethereum, when Eth starts earning less you start cranking the intensity up on the secondary algo (PASC/DCR/SIA), just the same as mining with a 1070 or any piece of Nvidia hardware, only AMD has the assembly changes which almost double the secondary algo earnings compared to Nvidia (which is why it would be nice if someone made a good dual miner for Nvidia).

Seems as though everyone is freaking out on the lost revenue, but one of the reasons you buy say a 580 over a old school R9-390 off eBay is because it performs better when you take into account other algos.

[sp_]

it is true bensam. i tried on my old wonky miner and it shows the same drop. dunno if it's exactly the same issue, afaik AMD arch doesn't even have a TLB. now let's see how that 1070 holds up  

Yes this is true... Something else to remember is Ethereum profit on a 480/580 isn't just limited to Ethereum, when Eth starts earning less you start cranking the intensity up on the secondary algo (PASC/DCR/SIA), just the same as mining with a 1070 or any piece of Nvidia hardware, only AMD has the assembly changes which almost double the secondary algo earnings compared to Nvidia (which is why it would be nice if someone made a good dual miner for Nvidia).
Seems as though everyone is freaking out on the lost revenue, but one of the reasons you buy say a 580 over a old school R9-390 off eBay is because it performs better when you take into account other algos.

The latest claymore can do 30-32MHASH ethereum and 1000MHASH decred (-dcri 20) on the r9 390 But the power usage is 340watt.

I am dualmining eth at 27-28MHASH and 1000MHASH decred or 500 mhash sia @260 watt (with a homemade bios mod).

Profitable, but use too much fuel compared to NVIDIA cards or 470-580 cards.

With the bios mod, I can run 6 390 cards on a 1700W psu.

[sp_]

Skein sp-mod #3...

Private miner not for sale.

[bensam1231]

"Nvidia is a great choice gais, why would you ever want AMD!!??!@?!"

It only took a partial run on Nvidia GPUs to completely smother the Nvidia mining markets. Zcash is still on it's way down and we probably wont see a stop to the decline in profits for another 1-2 weeks as people finish turning on their nice shiny new Nvidia rigs their friends told them to buy.

580 is doing $5.15 on Eth+Sia, 1070 is doing $4.12 and continuing to decline on Zcash at about 10% per day.

It's going to be scary to see how much we're making in a month. Hopefully BTC doesn't crap out or we're all screwed. It's actually pretty amazing this mining bubble lasted as long as it did.

[sp_]

Coin crash today.

Only 3 of the 100 biggest altcoins is in green. 97 coins in red..

Hold or dump?

What are your strategies?

[go6ooo1212]

dump and dump  - the best strategy ever

[antantti]

Coin crash today.

Only 3 of the 100 biggest altcoins is in green. 97 coins in red..

Hold or dump?

What are your strategies?

All in usd, eur, cny

[go6ooo1212]

dont forget gold also...

[jpouza]

Coin crash today.

Only 3 of the 100 biggest altcoins is in green. 97 coins in red..

Hold or dump?

What are your strategies?

It depends, as a miner, which coins do you intend to dump? Do you need to cover the electricity costs right now?

As a trader, dump now is not an option, now it's time to buy some cheap coins, if BTC drops to 1k USD I would buy some.

[antantti]

dont forget gold also...

I like fresh water more haha...

Dirty profitable to play with these "thanks for the cheap coins" guys...