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Author Topic: Hufflepuff Making 2k BTC On PrimeDice Nov 2014. March 2015 Update: He Cheated  (Read 49964 times)
mfaspk
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June 05, 2015, 04:09:21 PM
 #421

Perhaps dooglus's expertise can come in handy here?

Dooglus has come up with few things on how he managed to "cheat" on this but basically the method is still unproven, apparently only Stunna know about this and he had promised to share on this things in details. However it is not presented until now, it seems like he is caught up with something else or decided not to share on this matter to the public though

Here is a few dooglus post on how Hufflepuff managed to "cheat"

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=843892.msg10946852#msg10946852

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=843892.msg11070956#msg11070956

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=843892.msg11086396#msg11086396

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=843892.msg11090891#msg11090891

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=843892.msg11333454#msg11333454

Thanks I will look into that!

between did you say "unproven!"? yes that is indeed our typical dooglus, confused as usual Smiley
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June 05, 2015, 04:14:07 PM
 #422

Perhaps dooglus's expertise can come in handy here?

Dooglus has come up with few things on how he managed to "cheat" on this but basically the method is still unproven, apparently only Stunna know about this and he had promised to share on this things in details. However it is not presented until now, it seems like he is caught up with something else or decided not to share on this matter to the public though

Here is a few dooglus post on how Hufflepuff managed to "cheat"

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=843892.msg10946852#msg10946852

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=843892.msg11070956#msg11070956

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=843892.msg11086396#msg11086396

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=843892.msg11090891#msg11090891

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=843892.msg11333454#msg11333454

Thanks I will look into that!

between did you say "unproven!"? yes that is indeed our typical dooglus, confused as usual Smiley

Actually I didnt mean to say that (pardon my lame english) more or less im trying to say that basically dooglus come up with a few things on how he "might" do it but obviously apart from stunna we will not know on how he did that or what the method used to find a way to get through the hash. Dooglus made a good point on this, no doubt on it thought but Stunna hold the final key to this puzzle

P.S : pardon my lame english doog  Smiley

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June 05, 2015, 05:30:50 PM
 #423

its fAKE. stunna was just rolling with virtual bitcoins or bank roll to attract more customers. its a regular biz strategy. dont be fooled.

why would they fake it, when the site is already popular as is?
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June 06, 2015, 06:26:35 PM
 #424

between did you say "unproven!"? yes that is indeed our typical dooglus, confused as usual Smiley

I'm not confused. I made some guesses about what the exploit may have been. There's no way to know for sure without inside knowledge of the Prime Dice code.

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June 06, 2015, 07:10:48 PM
 #425

between did you say "unproven!"? yes that is indeed our typical dooglus, confused as usual Smiley

I'm not confused. I made some guesses about what the exploit may have been. There's no way to know for sure without inside knowledge of the Prime Dice code.
I think your guess is true about knowing server seed.
AFAIK hufflepuff was a mod of primedice; so he can easily know his server seeds etc. Also it was obvious to gain attention to primedice...



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June 06, 2015, 07:42:02 PM
 #426

AFAIK hufflepuff was a mod of primedice; so he can easily know his server seeds etc. Also it was obvious to gain attention to primedice...

No he was not a mod. Basically mod is just usual player than stand up for the PrimeDice community which means that they are an outsider. Even if he was a mod, he has no access to the server seed because no outsider has the access to it.
Stunna doesnt even trust other person to handle the support section which means that there is no doubt that only he or edward have the access to the server seed

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June 06, 2015, 09:19:03 PM
 #427

between did you say "unproven!"? yes that is indeed our typical dooglus, confused as usual Smiley

I'm not confused. I made some guesses about what the exploit may have been. There's no way to know for sure without inside knowledge of the Prime Dice code.
I think your guess is true about knowing server seed.
AFAIK hufflepuff was a mod of primedice; so he can easily know his server seeds etc. Also it was obvious to gain attention to primedice...

Yes, they got attention but also it was a bad advertisement for them coz someone compromised their system.. Mods dont have access to PD's  server seed
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June 07, 2015, 12:02:32 AM
 #428

between did you say "unproven!"? yes that is indeed our typical dooglus, confused as usual Smiley

I'm not confused. I made some guesses about what the exploit may have been. There's no way to know for sure without inside knowledge of the Prime Dice code.
I think your guess is true about knowing server seed.
AFAIK hufflepuff was a mod of primedice; so he can easily know his server seeds etc. Also it was obvious to gain attention to primedice...

Lol . He was never mod on pd . And also mods dont have any way of knowing server seeds or anything of pd code. We are just regular users with /m and /um commands thats all.

I was even in testing for pd3 months before launch and i never knew server seeds or how they are generated.

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June 07, 2015, 02:10:23 AM
 #429

i saw this guy win all this btc, winning on 3x some straight wins some streaks he did a good job of making it non-suspicious.
big lesson for pd, i think their system is all fixed now though
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June 07, 2015, 11:29:53 PM
 #430

I think Hufflepuff now owned moon on another galaxy  Cheesy maybe dan bilzerian is Hufflepuff.. who know.

Ok
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June 07, 2015, 11:31:21 PM
 #431

I think Hufflepuff now owned moon on another galaxy  Cheesy maybe dan bilzerian is Hufflepuff.. who know.


Huffle was able to make about $600-700k, it sounds like much, but its really not.
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June 07, 2015, 11:35:11 PM
 #432

I think Hufflepuff now owned moon on another galaxy  Cheesy maybe dan bilzerian is Hufflepuff.. who know.


Huffle was able to make about $600-700k, it sounds like much, but its really not.

Yeah ofc, it was a joke.

Ok
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June 08, 2015, 01:05:55 PM
 #433

I think Hufflepuff now owned moon on another galaxy  Cheesy maybe dan bilzerian is Hufflepuff.. who know.


Huffle was able to make about $600-700k, it sounds like much, but its really not.

Its not huge money thats going to change anything more than his own life but it still would change anyones life dramically who didnt have that kinda amount before.
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June 15, 2015, 01:52:54 PM
 #434

between did you say "unproven!"? yes that is indeed our typical dooglus, confused as usual Smiley

I'm not confused. I made some guesses about what the exploit may have been. There's no way to know for sure without inside knowledge of the Prime Dice code.



looking back. was weird all of us watching someone steal $50,000 right in front of our eyes and didnt even notice.



stunna must have been busy hottubbing with the famous




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June 15, 2015, 06:03:49 PM
 #435

So is stunna going to update us or nah?
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June 15, 2015, 06:14:16 PM
 #436

So is stunna going to update us or nah?

He should have give us an update regarding it, he posted about his intention for this about a week ago

For example, another hufflepuff type scenario[I'll publish the post this week]

Well, unfortunately since it is Stunna who state this , it seems we would need to wait a few days more since Stunna got a different "time" than most of us ( a week period could be two weeks ). Also that this is not an important thing for him to do because it serves him no benefit at all by updating us about what happened with it since it was all his BTC that was "stolen"

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June 16, 2015, 12:33:26 AM
 #437

between did you say "unproven!"? yes that is indeed our typical dooglus, confused as usual Smiley

I'm not confused. I made some guesses about what the exploit may have been. There's no way to know for sure without inside knowledge of the Prime Dice code.



looking back. was weird all of us watching someone steal $50,000 ***my edit, it was 750000$ at that time*** right in front of our eyes and didnt even notice.



stunna must have been busy hottubbing with the famous


Actually he was closely monitored but at that time Stunna did not have any proof of him exploiting so even if they actually knew he is cheating somehow , without proof it would look rly bad for primedice to hold somebody's money on an assumption of him cheating without any actual proof .

And as u can guess it was hard to prove it coz he had server seed so him betting with reveled server seed and betting while making it look like just pure luck .

So i understand them paying him out and proving once more that pd is the most trustworthy and most reliable dice site .

They would lose some respect if they did not pay him out without strong proof of him cheating .


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June 29, 2015, 07:35:20 AM
 #438

Edited out for now, will edit in with the full details later. It would be preferable for people to be presented the full story rather than vague details here and there.

I just stumbled upon this post, claiming to be from Stunna:

Quote
Breaking the house

How Primedice was exploited for $1M in Bitcoin


This is the story of how we lost around $1 million worth of bitcoin to a hacker who exploited our online casino’s RNG system. This happened last year, but we’ve decided to share our experience for transparency and so that others can learn from our mistakes.

August 2014

Shortly after the launch of the third version of Primedice, our team faced an adversary that challenged the existence of our website. Our team had nearly two years of experience building bitcoin gaming sites, however I personally had pretty limited coding experience. We were under heavy pressure to avoid further delays and released after a short week of closed beta testing.

The heist began immediately after launch with two unusual players, Nappa & Kane. We noticed unusual betting patterns from both those accounts. Kane was automatically cashed out, we reviewed Nappa’s bets and thought they were highly unusual but could find no wrong-doing and cashed him out after a delay and a brief email exchange

September 2014

After getting spooked by his delayed cashout on Nappa, the exploiter waited a few weeks and created a new account named “Hufflepuff”. Hufflepuff was the largest bettor Primedice had ever seen, he was often seen betting upwards of $8000 worth of bitcoin every second for hours on end. Our entire team was shocked that Hufflepuff continued to beat the house edge (1%) and stack up more and more profit over time.

We were highly skeptical of his winnings and were forced to hold his cashouts time and time again to investigate and each time our developers could not find any wrong-doing. We couldn’t justify greatly delaying his withdrawals when there was no evidence he was cheating. There was also strong incentive for us to promptly pay him, so he’d keep playing. We heavily explored what we thought was every possibility, ran simulations and did the math and came to the conclusion that he was just incredibly lucky.

The Discovery

About two days after sending his final withdrawal placing him above 2037 profit on the Hufflepuff account alone, our main developer detected the exploit after we found a handful of accounts sharing the same server seed.

To understand how Hufflepuff beat our system, one must understand how our provably fair system (RNG) works. A user is shown an encrypted random value (the server seed) before they bet and they must also submit their own random value (the client seed). These two random values are combined and used to determine win or lose. The random encrypted random value used for the bet then is shown to the user after the bet so that they can be guaranteed that their bet is not rigged. You can find the detailed and in-depth explanations of provably fair here:

https://primedice.com/verify and http://dicesites.com/provably-fair

Part of the functionality of our site is that we have to give out decrypted server seeds (to assure users no bet manipulation has occurred) and put a new random seed in place, essentially trashing the old revealed seed. Hufflepuff found a way to “confuse” our server, and made it give out a decrypted server seed that was also an active seed. This was done by sending it more requests than it could handle in a small time period, think hundreds of requests in under a second. The result of this is that he knew all the information required to corroborate the outcomes of his bets. He knew whether if he would win or lose, and could wager accordingly.

We figured this out after frantically checking our servers after a eureka moment. We suspected something could have been going on and eventually realized the possibility of a timing attack described above. Our database had seeds that were both inactive and in use at the same time all connected to Hufflepuff. Along these “Schrödinger” seeds existed many seemingly unused seeds connected to the same accounts, indicative of the rapid fire of requests needed to obtain these.

Déjà vu

Unfortunately we detected this exploit after cashing out Hufflepuff and his handful of accounts 2400+ coins (roughly $1M at the time). Given the nature of Bitcoin there wasn’t much we could do but take it on the chin. We reached out to Hufflepuff via his bitcointalk forum account and demanded the return of the coins, however this backfired unbelievably hard. It turned out that our developer had improperly patched the glitch. In response to our message, Hufflepuff created a new account named Robbinhood and proceeded to rapidly win 2000+ additional bitcoins using a work-around to the patch. He was unable to cashout more than 50 or 60 coins this time around as our site hot-wallet was drained.

Shortly after he privately sent us this message which was preceded with the dox of a primedice employee:

“Your offer is declined. Your demands are laughable. I’m happy to walk away and leave you be, but if you’re going to take this further, then so will I. I don’t think you want this to go further. I actually enjoy this shit. Your move.
Oh, and by the way, there are some pending withdrawals that you need to process.”
And that was the day the house didn’t win…

Evidence for transparency and investigative purposes
Hufflepuff’s deposit address: https://blockchain.info/address/1BiPXmDrHm7VXZnWy6NnW1ZbPc4dcpfkH5

His primary withdrawal address: https://blockchain.info/address/14iS2UvcLK33xkC1K1qL1dhEbp49aiNfNp

Email: hufflepuff@anonymousspeech.com

RobbinHood withdrawals:

https://blockchain.info/address/14HQ67ZhmATviHi9RdYhbUriAGSFmJpYoB

— Note — : Nappa/Kane were two other usernames used early on, amongst many others.

Kane’s Withdrawal address: https://blockchain.info/address/18dMBap634aESPTeD3FGcAgJ2S9n4qtBTZ

Nappa Deposit address: https://blockchain.info/address/16h9ggSzUWdvagEJdNvWVYiUkytw6SJgiB

Nappa email: kritonian@outlook.com

Some IP’s used between accounts: 184.75.221.106, 184.75.223.34 , 151.224.50.156 , 76.179.22.16

Any information that leads to the return of the coins from this incident will be greatly rewarded. We invite you to analyze the above bitcoin addresses and find out where the bulk of the coins ended up if you have the skills.

It’s also important to note that this incident is proof of the strength of our integrity and provably fair system. If at any point we attempted to rig Hufflepuff’s bets (skip nonces etc) we would have instantly realized he was cheating and we would have 2400+ more bitcoins. Hufflepuff only took a brief break from playing after we halved our max bet, I believe he would have cleaned us had we never discovered what was going on. We fund our own bankroll so no users were negatively impacted as a result of this.

Sorry for the long read,

Stunna & Primedice



Contact: Stunna@primedice.com

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Pony789
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June 29, 2015, 08:07:20 AM
 #439

Edited out for now, will edit in with the full details later. It would be preferable for people to be presented the full story rather than vague details here and there.

I just stumbled upon this post, claiming to be from Stunna:

Stunna has also posted that link in https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=208986.msg11740956#msg11740956, so yup it is the real official report.

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June 29, 2015, 08:23:53 AM
 #440

Edited out for now, will edit in with the full details later. It would be preferable for people to be presented the full story rather than vague details here and there.

I just stumbled upon this post, claiming to be from Stunna:

Stunna has also posted that link in https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=208986.msg11740956#msg11740956, so yup it is the real official report.

Yeah interesting, i have updated the OP and put this link https://medium.com/@Stunna/breaking-the-house-63f1021a3e6d and quoted the story for historical archive.
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