GAW / Josh Garza discussion Paycoin XPY xpy.io ION ionomy. ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :)

[tom14cat14]

Now when we have some fresh paycoiners here, I tried to ask yesterday for you to explain where the money will come from.

So I would love a discussion about it. Where does the money come from, to be able to promise a 400% yearly profit from hashstakers?

Yes i know about the wall etc, but if there ever will be a wall, it wont stand a chance if there is no new fiat flowing in. That means new people needs to buy paycoin for at least 20$/coin a "lot".

I've seen some figures that there will be many millions of paycoins in the stakers, so if theres 5 million paycoins staking all the time, they will create 20 million new coins, that are "guaranteed" a value of 20$. So where does it come from? You need $400 million a year to keep up with the pace.

I'm sure it is just me being stupid, but I have not seen any answers to this so far, so here is again your chance to "sell" us non-believers your coin

I will not claim to be an expert on paycoin. But I will try to answer things according to what I know/think.

The guarantee that hashstakers will have such a high yearly profit is only in terms of Paycoin. Just like any PoS coin you will get a certain amount of coin back. That is your profit. Now if you compare to BTC or Fiat it may be higher or lower depending on the exchange rate. So if people think that you buy $10 worth of paycoin and you will have $40 worth of paycoin they are sadly mistaken. They falsely assume that profit must mean your own currency of choice when in reality it is only in terms of Paycoin. ie: you buy 1 paycoin for $10 it by the end you have 4 coins so you have profited but paycoin is only worth $1 meaning you lost in terms of $$ but gained in terms of Paycoin.

The buy wall (assuming it shows up) was said to be $100 million. Only on paybase meaning on the exchanges it could be anything. If this wall shows up as promised it will act as a floor and a ceiling. So GAW would have to move that floor up in order to hit the $75 they are talking about. I think Sat will be a huge day to watch if the buy wall goes up we will have to see if it holds. There will be a bunch of people running for the door. The question will be will it be $100 million worth? Only time will tell.

I would have to go back and look but I do not think they guarantee $20. I think they said they will try to keep the floor of the price at $20 but people read it and assumed it is a guarantee. From what I have seen they said they will do it while funds last. Now there is logic in this because if it is there and as big as it should be that means people will jump in front of it for a penny, we see it all the time. So there is a chance that their funds will not be depleted due to people buying for slightly more than the buy wall in hopes of it going up.

[tom14cat14]

I know you guys didn’t ask but paycoin could work out. If GAW does and has what they say. They could make a coin relatively stable in price assuming people go along with it and act like in a way that is expected. Such as you see a $100 million buy wall you move just above it. This keeps the wall intact meaning it will build people confidence that it is stable. This is something businesses want. They have economy of scale for customers which will help persuade bigger businesses to work with them. They could offer a special deal if you buy with paycoin. This would be a huge marketing program for those businesses. So there is merit to what they want to do with this coin.

Of course there are a lot of problems that needed to be addressed. GAW has a history now of failing at launching new things. I know that issues happen when you upgrade to new programs however since the original hashlet I do not think they have had one thing go as planned. This does not help confidence. They have promised a lot of stuff and most have never been completed. This hurts confidence. The 2 coins I ran/launched worked perfectly under me. I am not even a coder but was able to work with 2 different people and make it work flawlessly. So this hurts confidence.

These are just some of the big positives and negatives I see. If GAW starts doing as it stated when it states it than they have a real chance to make something big. IMO But they have to understand they have lost a lot of people’s confidence because of so many promises that were not kept. Now we also have to realize that some of these may have been in the best interest of the consumer. Such as the added feature would not be worth using, so we stopped or we felt this would be much more profitable than mining.

[bumpershot]

I'm too lazy to check your math , but assuming it's correct they still need $77.5m of revenue, unless you think the "investors" are a large charity. In other words, they will expect their money back, and then some, and on top of that HashStaker owners need to get paid their generous interest rate. That's the part that doesn't make any sense to me - why would GAW need to borrow money from their customers at such high interest rates, if they already have investors throwing 100s of millions at them. Or they could just go to a bank and get money at near zero rates, joys of the recession. The only feasible explanation I can come up with is that there are no investors other than Zen/Hashlet/Staker owners (and GAW's credit rating is crap). And since those customers are seemingly ok with any rule changes, this can go on for a long time.

They may also think that it's worth the interest to tie up the coin for that length of time. If they don't have enough to support all of the coins right away, they need some tied up in stakers until the coin gains traction in the open market. My staker numbers are probably way off. It could very well be the case that the hashstakers are the difference between being able to handle the initial dump and depleting the fund within the first couple of hours. If, as they hope, the coin gains value on its own, then they won't have to fully pay for the 3 month and 6 month dumps. Some of it will come from demand for the coin. But they need coins out of action for a little while for demand to surface.

[truth_]

I know you guys didn’t ask but paycoin could work out. If GAW does and has what they say. They could make a coin relatively stable in price assuming people go along with it and act like in a way that is expected. Such as you see a $100 million buy wall you move just above it. This keeps the wall intact meaning it will build people confidence that it is stable. This is something businesses want. They have economy of scale for customers which will help persuade bigger businesses to work with them. They could offer a special deal if you buy with paycoin. This would be a huge marketing program for those businesses. So there is merit to what they want to do with this coin.

Of course there are a lot of problems that needed to be addressed. GAW has a history now of failing at launching new things. I know that issues happen when you upgrade to new programs however since the original hashlet I do not think they have had one thing go as planned. This does not help confidence. They have promised a lot of stuff and most have never been completed. This hurts confidence. The 2 coins I ran/launched worked perfectly under me. I am not even a coder but was able to work with 2 different people and make it work flawlessly. So this hurts confidence.

These are just some of the big positives and negatives I see. If GAW starts doing as it stated when it states it than they have a real chance to make something big. IMO But they have to understand they have lost a lot of people’s confidence because of so many promises that were not kept. Now we also have to realize that some of these may have been in the best interest of the consumer. Such as the added feature would not be worth using, so we stopped or we felt this would be much more profitable than mining.

 I think if the buy wall does not exist in the way that they have talked about ($100Million @ $20 a coin) they are going to lose most of the customers who still believe in them which are dwindling very quickly these days.
Do I think they will really allow anyone to sell for $20 worth of BTC a coin after the HP conversion?  Of course not.  There will be some sort of off the wall stipulations or they will make up some reason(excuse) why not like usual.
As you mentioned their history does not inspire confidence.

[WaffleMaster]

 I think if the buy wall does not exist in the way that they have talked about ($100Million @ $20 a coin) they are going to lose most of the customers who still believe in them which are dwindling very quickly these days.
Do I think they will really allow anyone to sell for $20 worth of BTC a coin after the HP conversion?  Of course not.  There will be some sort of off the wall stipulations or they will make up some reason(excuse) why not like usual.
As you mentioned their history does not inspire confidence.

^ This. I highly doubt that GAW will go like this: "Oh, nice HP you have there. Let me make those into $20 Paycoins for you if you give me 400 Hash Points ($4). You can now go sell these for an immediate 5x BTC and fiat gain. Gawsome, hash on, 80 ph/s, extreme merchant adoption, huge news interviews, lower maintenance fees."

[tom14cat14]

I know you guys didn’t ask but paycoin could work out. If GAW does and has what they say. They could make a coin relatively stable in price assuming people go along with it and act like in a way that is expected. Such as you see a $100 million buy wall you move just above it. This keeps the wall intact meaning it will build people confidence that it is stable. This is something businesses want. They have economy of scale for customers which will help persuade bigger businesses to work with them. They could offer a special deal if you buy with paycoin. This would be a huge marketing program for those businesses. So there is merit to what they want to do with this coin.

Of course there are a lot of problems that needed to be addressed. GAW has a history now of failing at launching new things. I know that issues happen when you upgrade to new programs however since the original hashlet I do not think they have had one thing go as planned. This does not help confidence. They have promised a lot of stuff and most have never been completed. This hurts confidence. The 2 coins I ran/launched worked perfectly under me. I am not even a coder but was able to work with 2 different people and make it work flawlessly. So this hurts confidence.

These are just some of the big positives and negatives I see. If GAW starts doing as it stated when it states it than they have a real chance to make something big. IMO But they have to understand they have lost a lot of people’s confidence because of so many promises that were not kept. Now we also have to realize that some of these may have been in the best interest of the consumer. Such as the added feature would not be worth using, so we stopped or we felt this would be much more profitable than mining.

 I think if the buy wall does not exist in the way that they have talked about ($100Million @ $20 a coin) they are going to lose most of the customers who still believe in them which are dwindling very quickly these days.
Do I think they will really allow anyone to sell for $20 worth of BTC a coin after the HP conversion?  Of course not.  There will be some sort of off the wall stipulations or they will make up some reason(excuse) why not like usual.
As you mentioned their history does not inspire confidence.

Yes this weekend will be huge for them. Good or bad. If it is not completely here are your paycoins dump if you wish. Then there will be a huge group of really pissed off people and Josh and his family would have to go into hiding. There is bound to be 1 crazy out there. This is actually one reason I believe Josh. What I mean by believe is that I think they will put up the wall and try to make this as they say. However this does not mean that they will succeed. It could fail and tons of people lose their money but it would not be because Josh took it (Hope not for his sake). It can still fail for so many reasons such as people just don’t want a new coin, mismanagement on GAWs end, and many more. I personally hope it succeeds. I think competition is good and it spawns knew ideas to make everyone better in the long run.  

[Puppet]

Im not up to speed with gaw jargon or even how their stuff is supposed to work, Ive just seen enough to know I should steer clear. I would still like to get understandable updates on how this is progressing/collapsing. Is there a "GAW for dummies who are not dumb" somewhere? I mean, without the marketing and hype bullshit?

[KC6TTR]

Hi Guys -
Been away again on business and have not been following this thread for the past 4 days or so. However, having just skimmed over some of the activity in my attempt to catch up, I must say I am disappointed.

If any of you truly agree with me and some others here who believe GAW/Zen is fundamentally a crypto-scam derived from blatant lies, why even consider renting hardware to others so they can feed the PayCoin hype engine?

Is a few days of heightened rental revenue really worth it?    

Is being part of the problem GAW/Zen continues fester really worth it?

As long as there are people supporting GAW/Zen's ventures with direct money, support, and/or hardware to facilitate a mining hashrate foundation, it does nothing to help those of us who are doing our best to stop the progression of what we see is a scam. In that regards, some of the GAW/Zen shills who are popping in here saying this conduct by some of the "haters" is hypocritical are actually correct.

Again, some of us have spent a lot of time and money to combat GAW/Zen up to this point with nothing expected in return. All we want is the truth to be known about this operation in question and its primaries who are still to this day laughing all the way to bank while touting how untouchable they are.

Continue to rent as many rigs and hash power as you want, but I would ask you to think twice before pointing any hardware to that waste of a crypto and the bandwidth it is sucking. Doing so does more harm than good - at any price.

Scott-

[tom14cat14]

 I think if the buy wall does not exist in the way that they have talked about ($100Million @ $20 a coin) they are going to lose most of the customers who still believe in them which are dwindling very quickly these days.
Do I think they will really allow anyone to sell for $20 worth of BTC a coin after the HP conversion?  Of course not.  There will be some sort of off the wall stipulations or they will make up some reason(excuse) why not like usual.
As you mentioned their history does not inspire confidence.

^ This. I highly doubt that GAW will go like this: "Oh, nice HP you have there. Let me make those into $20 Paycoins for you if you give me 400 Hash Points ($4). You can now go sell these for an immediate 5x BTC and fiat gain. Gawsome, hash on, 80 ph/s, extreme merchant adoption, huge news interviews, lower maintenance fees."

This does set off the too good to be true radar. This is why I did not refer a single friend here. I am taking the risk that it turns out to be true. I did mess my plan up a little bit. I wanted to be down to 10-20 primes but I have 130. I did get rid of 130+ over the last month. I planned on my way too many ZENs to be my only exposure to hashstakers. I honestly didn’t read anything about them until just recently because I thought I would not have any to worry about. This was my bad and then when the zen upgrade went live I panic upgraded my primes.

[vabchgent]

There worried about minerpools getting all the hashrate so the pool just upped its percentage to 4% to push the miners to other pools that may or may not work thats intelligent. 

[kebabman]

Is it true some guy was beating off on camera on the GAW tinychat yesterday?  

[LiteCoinGuy]

For the sake of discussion, let's assume there is a buy wall on Paybase that's accessible to all Paycoin wallet holders.

How large would it need to be for the coin to last more than a couple of days?

How large for more than three months?

How large for more than six months?

If it can pass six months, it'll be around for a while, but how much backing do they need to get there?

I don't think it needs to be terribly large for the initial dump, considering how many HashStakers there are out there. Just pulling numbers out of my ass (hey, GAW's CEO does it, so why not me?) - Let's say they pass out 4 mil PC to Hashpointers, and around 500k are mined. I'm not sure how many hashlets have been converted, or have been sold, but let's guess 250k into perms, 250k six month, and 250k 3 month. Some people might keep coins in a normal wallet for 5%, let's say 10%. So you're looking at 3.75*.9 = 3.375 million coins in the initial dump. At $20 per,

$67.5 million for initial.



So, just guessing at the numbers, It would take a wall of $77.5 million to keep this coin sustainable, assuming that all large investors keep their coins more than six months.

a return rate of 50% for hashstakers every three months.

Amazon already invested in Paycoin. Dont worry mister. 

[JanisPetke]

Is it true some guy was beating off on camera on the GAW tinychat yesterday?  

Who could resist strangling the ostrich while thinking ye olde homero in a leotard?

[bitpop]

Hi Guys -
Been away again on business and have not been following this thread for the past 4 days or so. However, having just skimmed over some of the activity in my attempt to catch up, I must say I am disappointed.

If any of you truly agree with me and some others here who believe GAW/Zen is fundamentally a crypto-scam derived from blatant lies, why even consider renting hardware to others so they can feed the PayCoin hype engine?

Is a few days of heightened rental revenue really worth it?    

Is being part of the problem GAW/Zen continues fester really worth it?

As long as there are people supporting GAW/Zen's ventures with direct money, support, and/or hardware to facilitate a mining hashrate foundation, it does nothing to help those of us who are doing our best to stop the progression of what we see is a scam. In that regards, some of the GAW/Zen shills who are popping in here saying this conduct by some of the "haters" is hypocritical are actually correct.

Again, some of us have spent a lot of time and money to combat GAW/Zen up to this point with nothing expected in return. All we want is the truth to be known about this operation in question and its primaries who are still to this day laughing all the way to bank while touting how untouchable they are.

Continue to rent as many rigs and hash power as you want, but I would ask you to think twice before pointing any hardware to that waste of a crypto and the bandwidth it is sucking. Doing so does more harm than good - at any price.

Scott-

Actually I think it's better that the victims are giving Bitcoin to these guys vs Josh.

There's a possibility they could help victims in the future. But at least they won't be dumping Bitcoin like Homero. This is war.

I'm surprised Josh didn't offer to sell more fake mining. I don't think he thought the scam would last this long.

[truth_]

 I think if the buy wall does not exist in the way that they have talked about ($100Million @ $20 a coin) they are going to lose most of the customers who still believe in them which are dwindling very quickly these days.
Do I think they will really allow anyone to sell for $20 worth of BTC a coin after the HP conversion?  Of course not.  There will be some sort of off the wall stipulations or they will make up some reason(excuse) why not like usual.
As you mentioned their history does not inspire confidence.

^ This. I highly doubt that GAW will go like this: "Oh, nice HP you have there. Let me make those into $20 Paycoins for you if you give me 400 Hash Points ($4). You can now go sell these for an immediate 5x BTC and fiat gain. Gawsome, hash on, 80 ph/s, extreme merchant adoption, huge news interviews, lower maintenance fees."

No kidding.  Only problem is they have been telling all of their customers that is what they were going to do for months now.
Watch out if/when they don't!

[bobcaticus]

Is there a "GAW for dummies who are not dumb" somewhere? I mean, without the marketing and hype bullshit?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme

[truth_]

I know you guys didn’t ask but paycoin could work out. If GAW does and has what they say. They could make a coin relatively stable in price assuming people go along with it and act like in a way that is expected. Such as you see a $100 million buy wall you move just above it. This keeps the wall intact meaning it will build people confidence that it is stable. This is something businesses want. They have economy of scale for customers which will help persuade bigger businesses to work with them. They could offer a special deal if you buy with paycoin. This would be a huge marketing program for those businesses. So there is merit to what they want to do with this coin.

Of course there are a lot of problems that needed to be addressed. GAW has a history now of failing at launching new things. I know that issues happen when you upgrade to new programs however since the original hashlet I do not think they have had one thing go as planned. This does not help confidence. They have promised a lot of stuff and most have never been completed. This hurts confidence. The 2 coins I ran/launched worked perfectly under me. I am not even a coder but was able to work with 2 different people and make it work flawlessly. So this hurts confidence.

These are just some of the big positives and negatives I see. If GAW starts doing as it stated when it states it than they have a real chance to make something big. IMO But they have to understand they have lost a lot of people’s confidence because of so many promises that were not kept. Now we also have to realize that some of these may have been in the best interest of the consumer. Such as the added feature would not be worth using, so we stopped or we felt this would be much more profitable than mining.

 I think if the buy wall does not exist in the way that they have talked about ($100Million @ $20 a coin) they are going to lose most of the customers who still believe in them which are dwindling very quickly these days.
Do I think they will really allow anyone to sell for $20 worth of BTC a coin after the HP conversion?  Of course not.  There will be some sort of off the wall stipulations or they will make up some reason(excuse) why not like usual.
As you mentioned their history does not inspire confidence.

Yes this weekend will be huge for them. Good or bad. If it is not completely here are your paycoins dump if you wish. Then there will be a huge group of really pissed off people and Josh and his family would have to go into hiding. There is bound to be 1 crazy out there. This is actually one reason I believe Josh. What I mean by believe is that I think they will put up the wall and try to make this as they say. However this does not mean that they will succeed. It could fail and tons of people lose their money but it would not be because Josh took it (Hope not for his sake). It can still fail for so many reasons such as people just don’t want a new coin, mismanagement on GAWs end, and many more. I personally hope it succeeds. I think competition is good and it spawns knew ideas to make everyone better in the long run.  

It will definitely be an interesting weekend in GAW land. Going to be fireworks either way.
 

[bumpershot]

Anyone notice that, from an "investor" standpoint, what's happening right now is like a surrogate round 3 of the ICO? Paycoin was supposed to be open to a restricted number of people for $10 each. Now, you can get it for like $9.50 each on the open market.

The order's a little flipped, as Round 3 was supposed to happen after Round 2, but you can still get a bunch of XPY for under $10, and that was what was going to be available during this time period in the initial timeline.

[suchmoon]

Im not up to speed with gaw jargon or even how their stuff is supposed to work, Ive just seen enough to know I should steer clear. I would still like to get understandable updates on how this is progressing/collapsing. Is there a "GAW for dummies who are not dumb" somewhere? I mean, without the marketing and hype bullshit?

Here is a good overview:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=857670.msg9749458#msg9749458

The only notable thing that happened since then is the Paycoin launch, which was hugely disappointing in terms of features (none of the promised thermodynamic stuff), but very profitable for miners.

[interstellar]

The irony is, I bet it's the first time any of us have done any actual coin mining in all the time we've had anything to do with Garzas' Gawd Awful Wreck.

It doesn't stop here, think how the Genesis hashlet owners feel. They purchased an overpriced SHA256 miner and can't take advantage of this. Also where is GAW's 5 PH/s or whatever is remaining of it? Does it even make sense for them to mine Paycoin since they already have 12 million of it? So the only ones making money out of this are GAW's most despised individuals, i.e. Bitcoin bagholders pulling out their USB erupters and whatnot. Great show

BTW despite what the CEO is tweeting, average network hashrate is still 10-15 PH/s. I have no clue why someone hasn't told him yet to stop embarrassing himself.

http://paycoin.minerpools.com/index.php?page=statistics&action=blocks

Josh Garza retweeted
 Mr Coins @CryptoDabbler  ·  5h 5 hours ago
Paycoin net hash reached an astonishing 84 PH, see live stats at http://suchpool.pw  #paycoin #paybase @gawceo

It really doesn't make any sense why Genesis hashlets cant mine their own coin. The only answer is they were never "mining" in the first place. The "rates" are just made up numbers that don't correlate to real world data.

Also eightcylinders makes a great point by questioning low zenpool payouts. The "negotiations" have failed to bring the rate up even with the blistering rate of renting out on nicehash. Wouldn't GAW be in a better position to rent out hardware better than ever before? Shouldn't we NOW see rates of .006-.007 ?

Genesis are mining!! There's a "mine" formula on the excel spreadsheet to prove it!