GAW / Josh Garza discussion Paycoin XPY xpy.io ION ionomy. ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :)

[jimmothy]

This is the part I think most believers fail to understand/acknowledge.

As of now you would need to dump 1.7m paycoins (14% the total coin supply) to eat through GAW's buy wall of ~$34 million.

In 5 years there will be 12.8 billion paycoins so dumping 1.4m paycoins would only be ~0.015% of the total coin supply. To dump 14% of the total coin supply (1.8b) at $20/coin would require a $35 billion buy wall.

Why does everyone here think the automatic thing is to dump?  Isn't the whole "high-brow" point of BTC centered on building an ecosystem around it's use and adoption?  So that a BTC is a BTC, and not just what it's value is today in USD?

You don't have a choice.

If you don't dump, your money is worth 1/1,000,000th it's original value every 10 years. (unless you perpetually fork over money for hashstakers)

Get rich quick schemes are a zero sum game. Everyone cannot win.

[jp333]

I saw a couple posts that still suggest that amazon will be accepting the coin directly, and instead of converting it to fiat that they'll "hold it as an investment". I keep trying to imagine what my E&Y or grant thornton auditors would say about including any unregistered cryptocurrency in an asset portfolio. I think they would laugh.

[Snail2]

Why does everyone here think the automatic thing is to dump?  Isn't the whole "high-brow" point of BTC centered on building an ecosystem around it's use and adoption?  So that a BTC is a BTC, and not just what it's value is today in USD?

Actually most ppl here are dumping for BTC what they can spend on more miners to make more dumps for new up to date miners and so on...

"HELGA      What about the killing and looting? That's just as crude, isn't it?
ERIK      Oh well - you've GOT to do them.
HELGA      Why? Why have you got to go round killing and looting?
ERIK      To pay for the next expedition, of course."

...anyway they are heavily boosting the BTC ecosytem .

[bitgeek]

To the first point, if people only spend their earned interest they are merely rentiers, and not adding any economic value.

So is it the same in the BTC world?  You have hundreds of people giving "advice" to other people here on this forum that you need to "hodl".  The BTC they hold is not doing anything to the economic value of BTC other than their exchanged currency (whether that was fiat or some other means) being locked up in the system for the period they hold it.  For some, the idea is that their speculation of a favorable  BTC->USD exchange rate will allow them to sell or trade at some later date.  But what are they selling or trading for?  Fiat or a good purchased with a BTC->fiat transaction.

I fail to see the difference here, other than the POS staking in the case of XPY.

Second point, i know they can't spend the staked XPY and that is even worse. It's like locking it into a long-term CD except no bank is issuing a loan on the other side of that!

Initially correct, but loans, escrows, added services, etc. can all be introduced that create more value for the coin.  BTC value creation is all tied into the POW, and speculation.  I don't see any other value adds.

Third, Keynes was writing at a time when all gov't money was backed by gold. And yes, there is actually a controlling entity - GAW's reserve fund of fiat - to artificially prop up the market price. This is no different than deficit spending if you want to draw the analogy.

You'll have to forgive me... I'm not a fan of Keynesian policy.  And discussing it's merits is probably best done in a separate thread in the Economics forum.

do u have selective hearing retard buddie asked you about 12.8bil inflation ps dont let the door hit u in the ass on ur way bak to ht

Ok, I'm only going to ask you once, nicely, to not call me names when I haven't addressed you as such.

If you follow the thread that Hazenyc and I are on... you will see that he did not ask me about 12.8bil anything.  If it was inferred from some other thread you are involved in... be my guest and continue talking in circles.

Let him release all that childish hate, he already got banned once another one is coming.

[seedtrue]

https://hashtalk.org/topic/23881/paycoin-sold-out-from-paycoin-com


So they sold out at $20 when people cannot even get $10 at exchange? Seems a little odd.

[vabchgent]

https://hashtalk.org/topic/23881/paycoin-sold-out-from-paycoin-com


So they sold out at $20 when people cannot even get $10 at exchange? Seems a little odd.

Not odd not everyone owns a miner or BTC to buy coin. They do have HP however.

[puwaha]

1.A problem with BTC is that people hoard. Especially those buying it to speculate on price rather than use it for transactions. As more merchants accept BTC this will change. Microsoft and Dell now taking BTC helps a lot. But there is no incentive to hold BTC per se. POS incentivizes hoarding.

Hoarding does have an effect on stabilization as well because of it's finite resource aspect.  POS incentivises hoarding trapping the fiat value of the coins into the ecosystem to stabilize the price.

There's one thing I don't agree with... or don't understand yet about XPY...  It has been stated in the whitepaper that if there is low demand for XPY, then the POS algorithm will not release as many coins.  I get that this helps stabilize price to keep the finite resource limited.  But if you hit an extended period of low demand, then the only POS "profit" to come by is through transactions and other services alone.  That doesn't bring any new "money" into the ecosystem, just transfer from one to another.  But, then again... there's a lot I don't fully grasp about XPY yet.

But then yet, again... there's a lot I don't fully grasp about BTC yet, because it doesn't follow typical norms of real-world economics.  I find a lot of the speculation and economics threads here are helpful in some ways, but harmful in other ways.

2.Well this all depends on whether you believe savings create loans or if the direction of causality is loans create deposits. There is still a debate amongst economists as to which is the correct way or if it can be bidirectional. I believe that loans create deposits. And yes, I agree that in time there will be enough financial engineering in place to take cryptocoin loans, trade derivatives and all sorts of fun stuff.
POW is labor, albeit computational. Labor is valuable. POS is idle.

I don't know if I'd call POS an idle.  One thing I think we can all agree on is that we have seen what POW coins can do with enough energy and effort behind it... but we haven't seen what a POS model can do with this much effort and energy behind it.

A lot remains to be seen, but until proven otherwise, I'm not going to say GAW can't do it.

[anti_gaw_DONKEY_KONG_DK]

tonight we attack ht again if these shrills continue id suggest the zincsave photo shop and bizz link for starts

[puwaha]

This is the part I think most believers fail to understand/acknowledge.

As of now you would need to dump 1.7m paycoins (14% the total coin supply) to eat through GAW's buy wall of ~$34 million.

In 5 years there will be 12.8 billion paycoins so dumping 1.4m paycoins would only be ~0.015% of the total coin supply. To dump 14% of the total coin supply (1.8b) at $20/coin would require a $35 billion buy wall.

Why does everyone here think the automatic thing is to dump?  Isn't the whole "high-brow" point of BTC centered on building an ecosystem around it's use and adoption?  So that a BTC is a BTC, and not just what it's value is today in USD?

why dump? cause im sick of gaws lack of transparency

Ok, so you've stated the reason why *you* will dump.  But you haven't given any valid reason as to why you think thousands of others will.  Don't get me wrong, there will be a sell-off when people first get the opportunity.  But GAW has staged and marketed it in a way to prevent as much of it as possible.  That is why I'm thinking might not be as bad as people think.

ps if im insulting its cause your pissing me off no one here likes gaw u dense retard so why u here to annoyance us hence fuck off srs bitpop me tourist  waffle raskul etc need a modded forum and use this one as a gray buffer zone

Oh, gee... I'm sorry.  I didn't realize you were master and commander of all knowledge and opinion.  If I'm offending you with positioning reason and debate of a different type above rhetoric and name calling, I'll leave you to your imaginary circle-jerk.

[suchmoon]

https://hashtalk.org/topic/23881/paycoin-sold-out-from-paycoin-com


So they sold out at $20 when people cannot even get $10 at exchange? Seems a little odd.

It might still be available from resellers at $69.99.

[puwaha]

This is the part I think most believers fail to understand/acknowledge.

As of now you would need to dump 1.7m paycoins (14% the total coin supply) to eat through GAW's buy wall of ~$34 million.

In 5 years there will be 12.8 billion paycoins so dumping 1.4m paycoins would only be ~0.015% of the total coin supply. To dump 14% of the total coin supply (1.8b) at $20/coin would require a $35 billion buy wall.

Why does everyone here think the automatic thing is to dump?  Isn't the whole "high-brow" point of BTC centered on building an ecosystem around it's use and adoption?  So that a BTC is a BTC, and not just what it's value is today in USD?

You don't have a choice.

If you don't dump, your money is worth 1/1,000,000th it's original value every 10 years. (unless you perpetually fork over money for hashstakers)

Get rich quick schemes are a zero sum game. Everyone cannot win.

I'm sensing some irony here from you posting this on a bitcoin forum.

[alienesb]

https://hashtalk.org/topic/23881/paycoin-sold-out-from-paycoin-com


So they sold out at $20 when people cannot even get $10 at exchange? Seems a little odd.

It might still be available from resellers at $69.99.

I lol'd

[puwaha]

Why does everyone here think the automatic thing is to dump?  Isn't the whole "high-brow" point of BTC centered on building an ecosystem around it's use and adoption?  So that a BTC is a BTC, and not just what it's value is today in USD?

Actually most ppl here are dumping for BTC what they can spend on more miners to make more dumps for new up to date miners and so on...

"HELGA      What about the killing and looting? That's just as crude, isn't it?
ERIK      Oh well - you've GOT to do them.
HELGA      Why? Why have you got to go round killing and looting?
ERIK      To pay for the next expedition, of course."

...anyway they are heavily boosting the BTC ecosytem .

I get that, but the same is true in the BTC mining world.  You've got to spend your mined/earned BTC on new equipment to continue to make it "profitable" to continue to mine.  It's a never ending spiral.  At least that is what the "hodlers" will tell you.

[hazenyc]

Hoarding does have an effect on stabilization as well because of it's finite resource aspect.  POS incentivises hoarding trapping the fiat value of the coins into the ecosystem to stabilize the price.

Hoarding a finite resource makes it worth more if others need those scarce units to transact. That doesn't necessarily mean stability, just means more upside than downside when priced in dollars.

[anti_gaw_DONKEY_KONG_DK]

This is the part I think most believers fail to understand/acknowledge.

As of now you would need to dump 1.7m paycoins (14% the total coin supply) to eat through GAW's buy wall of ~$34 million.

In 5 years there will be 12.8 billion paycoins so dumping 1.4m paycoins would only be ~0.015% of the total coin supply. To dump 14% of the total coin supply (1.8b) at $20/coin would require a $35 billion buy wall.

Why does everyone here think the automatic thing is to dump?  Isn't the whole "high-brow" point of BTC centered on building an ecosystem around it's use and adoption?  So that a BTC is a BTC, and not just what it's value is today in USD?

why dump? cause im sick of gaws lack of transparency

Ok, so you've stated the reason why *you* will dump.  But you haven't given any valid reason as to why you think thousands of others will.  Don't get me wrong, there will be a sell-off when people first get the opportunity.  But GAW has staged and marketed it in a way to prevent as much of it as possible.  That is why I'm thinking might not be as bad as people think.

ps if im insulting its cause your pissing me off no one here likes gaw u dense retard so why u here to annoyance us hence fuck off srs bitpop me tourist  waffle raskul etc need a modded forum and use this one as a gray buffer zone

Oh, gee... I'm sorry.  I didn't realize you were master and commander of all knowledge and opinion.  If I'm offending you with positioning reason and debate of a different type above rhetoric and name calling, I'll leave you to your imaginary circle-jerk.

why will so many dump? simple people are fed up you want a debate? wtf is there to debate your a idiot if you cant see homeros deception why debate when you can scroll back pages weve debunked enough shit as is srs we need a private forum guys so far the fact is there is 0 fiat reserve proof only statements from gaw statements arnt facts but the fact is there is 0 prove atm debateing faith is useless

[maildir]

Someone remind me why you cannot set up shop and sell BTC or LTC or DOGE direct to the public with credit card payments?

Isn't there someone about money handling / transfer licenses and verification of customers in the US?

So has Homero set up a shopify shop, taken credit card payments and sent the people his paycoins? No license no verification nothing.

Is this legal?

[I_IZ_CEO]

Price of XPY down to .024 BTC on Coin Swap. So far slightly over 132,000 mined out of 500,000 coins to be mined. What happens on Friday when the 12,000,000 pre-mine become available to "investors" and HP holders? 12,5000,000 XPY at $20 each would require a fiat reserve of $250,000,000 if everyone sells. Josh claims a buy wall at $20 per XPY but if "investors" paid only $4.00 per XPY that would require 250,000,000 XPY sold to create the wall. That is 20X the number of XPY that will exist on Friday. Something is definitely out of whack here.  

Oh boy hope he is not going to dump all the BTC he was supposedly mining with our miners when the payouts dropped on Zen cloud. That would be a disaster for BTC. Robbing BTC to pay XPY. We also know he has PH somewhere mining something.

you make no sense.

sit and watch this just for 30 mins and see what kind of volume BTC trading does....
https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/kraken/btceur

Garza doing any density of mining won't affect anything, whatsoever.

I might be wearing a tinfoil hat right now. But he did get a lot of BTC from cutting the Mining contracts so he could be sitting on a mountain of it.

we are currently seeing selloffs by whoever was fortunate enough to win that last FBI auction. these selloffs are done in dribs and drabs and have short term effect on the price, in dumps of ~100BTC at a time. This is my take on what is occurring in the marketplace currently. Then we have the normal dumps by the mining farms... put together it's a slow short term drop in btc price, but we are talking tens of thousands of BTC volume here...

I don't care which hat you are wearing but Garza has nowehere near the volume which is actually suppressing short term btc price.

Or.. I presume you can back up your statement with hard numbers?
thought not.

I dont think the auction buyers, Tim being one of them, are selling their bitcoins. Tims wallet:
28,156.51316529 BTC
https://blockchain.info/address/16cTyJLWbXQz3UZ3sYjy6A6VGX4sAqiEo1
I also think he is funding some start ups with his bitcoins.
I don't think Homero is selling his bitcoins too.. He might be selling his paycoins to get more bitcoins..

that was the 1st FBI auction. there has been another since and the buyer remained anonymous AFAIK

Second Market won the 2nd auction, a 104-person syndicate. How much did each person get from that auction? Enough to do damage to bitcoin if they sold their share? And tbh I do not think these investors are selling their coins. At a later time, maybe.

[TracerX]

Why does everyone here think the automatic thing is to dump?  Isn't the whole "high-brow" point of BTC centered on building an ecosystem around it's use and adoption?  So that a BTC is a BTC, and not just what it's value is today in USD?

Actually most ppl here are dumping for BTC what they can spend on more miners to make more dumps for new up to date miners and so on...

"HELGA      What about the killing and looting? That's just as crude, isn't it?
ERIK      Oh well - you've GOT to do them.
HELGA      Why? Why have you got to go round killing and looting?
ERIK      To pay for the next expedition, of course."

...anyway they are heavily boosting the BTC ecosytem .

I get that, but the same is true in the BTC mining world.  You've got to spend your mined/earned BTC on new equipment to continue to make it "profitable" to continue to mine.  It's a never ending spiral.  At least that is what the "hodlers" will tell you.

I'm not positive about this, honestly.  I'm not the most successful miner here by any means, but I started with a $200 video card and now have a small army of equipment and more BTC than I ever expected.  I haven't gamed the system in any way, either, I've just brushed up on a fair amount of math in the last year.  I suppose YMMV.

[raskul]

Code:

[quote author=raskul link=topic=857670.msg9859310#msg9859310 date=1418756388]
[quote author=I_IZ_CEO link=topic=857670.msg9859292#msg9859292 date=1418756236]
[quote author=raskul link=topic=857670.msg9857220#msg9857220 date=1418742281]
[quote author=vabchgent link=topic=857670.msg9857161#msg9857161 date=1418741922]
[quote author=raskul link=topic=857670.msg9857143#msg9857143 date=1418741829]
[quote author=vabchgent link=topic=857670.msg9857111#msg9857111 date=1418741649]
[quote author=jackbox link=topic=857670.msg9857063#msg9857063 date=1418741305]
Price of XPY down to .024 BTC on Coin Swap. So far slightly over 132,000 mined out of 500,000 coins to be mined. What happens on Friday when the 12,000,000 pre-mine become available to "investors" and HP holders? 12,5000,000 XPY at $20 each would require a fiat reserve of $250,000,000 if everyone sells. Josh claims a buy wall at $20 per XPY but if "investors" paid only $4.00 per XPY that would require 250,000,000 XPY sold to create the wall. That is 20X the number of XPY that will exist on Friday. Something is definitely out of whack here.  :'(
[/quote]

Oh boy hope he is not going to dump all the BTC he was supposedly mining with our miners when the payouts dropped on Zen cloud. That would be a disaster for BTC. Robbing BTC to pay XPY. We also know he has PH somewhere mining something. 
[/quote]

you make no sense.

sit and watch this just for 30 mins and see what kind of volume BTC trading does....
https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/kraken/btceur

Garza doing any density of mining won't affect anything, whatsoever.
[/quote]

I might be wearing a tinfoil hat right now. But he did get a lot of BTC from cutting the Mining contracts so he could be sitting on a mountain of it. 
[/quote]
we are currently seeing selloffs by whoever was fortunate enough to win that last FBI auction. these selloffs are done in dribs and drabs and have short term effect on the price, in dumps of ~100BTC at a time. This is my take on what is occurring in the marketplace currently. Then we have the normal dumps by the mining farms... put together it's a slow short term drop in btc price, but we are talking tens of thousands of BTC volume here...

I don't care which hat you are wearing but Garza has nowehere near the volume which is [i]actually[/i] suppressing short term btc price.

Or.. I presume you can back up your statement with hard numbers?
thought not.

[/quote]

I dont think the auction buyers, Tim being one of them, are selling their bitcoins. Tims wallet:
28,156.51316529 BTC
https://blockchain.info/address/16cTyJLWbXQz3UZ3sYjy6A6VGX4sAqiEo1
I also think he is funding some start ups with his bitcoins.
I don't think Homero is selling his bitcoins too.. He might be selling his paycoins to get more bitcoins..

[/quote]

that was the 1st FBI auction. there has been another since and the buyer remained anonymous AFAIK
[/quote]

Second Market won the 2nd auction, a 104-person syndicate. How much did each person get from that auction? Enough to do damage to bitcoin if they sold their share? And tbh I do not think these investors are selling their coins. At a later time, maybe.

ah ok, thanks for that, i hadn't been following it.

[jimmothy]

This is the part I think most believers fail to understand/acknowledge.

As of now you would need to dump 1.7m paycoins (14% the total coin supply) to eat through GAW's buy wall of ~$34 million.

In 5 years there will be 12.8 billion paycoins so dumping 1.4m paycoins would only be ~0.015% of the total coin supply. To dump 14% of the total coin supply (1.8b) at $20/coin would require a $35 billion buy wall.

Why does everyone here think the automatic thing is to dump?  Isn't the whole "high-brow" point of BTC centered on building an ecosystem around it's use and adoption?  So that a BTC is a BTC, and not just what it's value is today in USD?

You don't have a choice.

If you don't dump, your money is worth 1/1,000,000th it's original value every 10 years. (unless you perpetually fork over money for hashstakers)

Get rich quick schemes are a zero sum game. Everyone cannot win.

I'm sensing some irony here from you posting this on a bitcoin forum.

The difference is that BTC is a freely traded asset. Supply/demand have determined the value of Bitcoin. The CEO alone has determined the value of paycoin.

Here's an example of what will happen:

Step 1: Investor spends $2.5m to acquire 125,000 paycoins to buy a prime node.

Step 2: After 2 years at 400% apr the investor now has 2,000,000 paycoins

Step 3: Investor thinks that turning $2.5m in to $40m is good enough. dumps $35m worth of paycoins. Scheme collapses.

The problem with this scheme is that the only real value is the promise of profit. Without the "guaranteed" price of $20/coin everything collapses.