The BitcoinCard : Vienna, Austria Workshop

[rjk]

this doesn't make sense to me.  how can it "maintain power thru normal use"?

I've heard of low power technologies that generate a small amount of energy when flexed, does it use something like this?

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[wareen]

this doesn't make sense to me.  how can it "maintain power thru normal use"?

Normal use: you take it out and make transactions, the solar panel catches some light and uses it to maintain the power level of the card.

[cypherdoc]

this doesn't make sense to me.  how can it "maintain power thru normal use"?

Normal use: you take it out and make transactions, the solar panel catches some light and uses it to maintain the power level of the card.

does it have to be sunlight or will fluorescent or ambient light charge it?

flexing sounds like it has the potential to damage the card as well.

[Yankee (BitInstant)]

Can someone clear up these scenarios for me?

If a vendor/store had a USB gateway wouldnt that be enough to process POS transactions?

If there is no mesh and you send coins to your friends across town would he receive the coins if you were both next to a USB gateway?

Yes, thats all a merchant/vendor needs is a POS gateway to make it work.

Cards can talk to each other without a POS, and POS can talk to cards as well. They all talk to each other!

The POS would act as a 'mess teleporter' so your scenario is exactly right.

this doesn't make sense to me.  how can it "maintain power thru normal use"?

I've heard of low power technologies that generate a small amount of energy when flexed, does it use something like this?

Like I said earlier, one full solar charge is enough for 1 month of daily use.

It has the same power usage as my Citibank OTP device which I only replace the battery once a year but can generate 3-4 OTP's a day.

this doesn't make sense to me.  how can it "maintain power thru normal use"?

Normal use: you take it out and make transactions, the solar panel catches some light and uses it to maintain the power level of the card.

does it have to be sunlight or will fluorescent or ambient light charge it?

flexing sounds like it has the potential to damage the card as well.

I'm not sure about this, will ask.

[rjk]

this doesn't make sense to me.  how can it "maintain power thru normal use"?

I've heard of low power technologies that generate a small amount of energy when flexed, does it use something like this?

Like I said earlier, one full solar charge is enough for 1 month of daily use.

It has the same power usage as my Citibank OTP device which I only replace the battery once a year but can generate 3-4 OTP's a day.

The reason I mentioned that was because of this:

Anyone in the electronics industry can tell you that the e-ink screen, radio transmitter/receiver and other functions of the device cannot be run by such a small solar panel, in fact, it would need a battery the size of the whole card just to run an hour more than likely.

On this point Matthew you are incorrect 100%. The device IS ONLY SOLAR POWERED. It doesn't/can't plug into anything. Yet, has a screen and transmitter and provides all the functionality discussed. I asked them how long it could go without any sunlight and the answer was "several months". In fact it is so power-efficient that the retail version (production model) can enable it to power itself from occasional bending (bending the device back and forth to charge it) or even from pushing the buttons during normal usage.

Power is not a problem with these.

[minorman]

I want one!  

One question: Why does the charge-life depend on how many times it is used/day? If it is constantly relaying transactions in a meshnet I don't see how the thing will hold charge for a month if it is acting to relay information in a meshnet?

[Yankee (BitInstant)]

this doesn't make sense to me.  how can it "maintain power thru normal use"?

I've heard of low power technologies that generate a small amount of energy when flexed, does it use something like this?

Like I said earlier, one full solar charge is enough for 1 month of daily use.

It has the same power usage as my Citibank OTP device which I only replace the battery once a year but can generate 3-4 OTP's a day.

The reason I mentioned that was because of this:

Anyone in the electronics industry can tell you that the e-ink screen, radio transmitter/receiver and other functions of the device cannot be run by such a small solar panel, in fact, it would need a battery the size of the whole card just to run an hour more than likely.

On this point Matthew you are incorrect 100%. The device IS ONLY SOLAR POWERED. It doesn't/can't plug into anything. Yet, has a screen and transmitter and provides all the functionality discussed. I asked them how long it could go without any sunlight and the answer was "several months". In fact it is so power-efficient that the retail version (production model) can enable it to power itself from occasional bending (bending the device back and forth to charge it) or even from pushing the buttons during normal usage.

Power is not a problem with these.

The power-bending model we have not seen, it's something they spoke about possibly doing in the future.

I think Erik may have misheard on this one (Unless I did, because Im unsure as well)

The fact as I understand it is, the device has a battery that is always charging in sun light. However, it can run for 1 full month on 1 full charge.

I want one!  

One question: Why does the charge-life depend on how many times it is used/day? If it is constantly relaying transactions in a meshnet I don't see how the thing will hold charge for a month if it is acting to relay information in a meshnet?

I don't think thats how it works.

[Xenland]

Forgive me if this was answered but: How do i take my private keys off your device(or put them on?) when I'm done with it? or do I get provided with a select amount of Addresses that I have to be forced to send Bitcoins to my own "privately" owned address?

I ask because if i can't remove or add my private keys I can't trust the device with my Bitcoins.

[Gavin Andresen]

I bet Gavin got one or two of the prototypes and is digging into it as we speak. I hope we get a status report soon.

No, I don't have a prototype.

The hardware is real and very cool, but they've got a lot of work to do on software and user interface and manufacturing process and marketing and distribution and.... .  Expect the design to change before you can actually buy one. And like all really innovative projects (and to quote the MythBusters) "Failure is always an option."

Answering detailed questions about exactly how it works right now would be a waste of time, because I think before it ships most of the answers will be different. The meeting in Vienna was for bitcoincard to get early feedback on whether or not they're headed in a good direction.

RE: why would you want a bitcoincard versus just using your cellphone:  I personally think you'll want both; I'm trying to convince them that the bitcoincard could be a perfect "second device" for multisignature transactions. Cell phone viruses and trojans and malware will be the next big wave of security vulnerabilities.

[proudhon]

this doesn't make sense to me.  how can it "maintain power thru normal use"?

I've heard of low power technologies that generate a small amount of energy when flexed, does it use something like this?

Like I said earlier, one full solar charge is enough for 1 month of daily use.

It has the same power usage as my Citibank OTP device which I only replace the battery once a year but can generate 3-4 OTP's a day.

The reason I mentioned that was because of this:

Anyone in the electronics industry can tell you that the e-ink screen, radio transmitter/receiver and other functions of the device cannot be run by such a small solar panel, in fact, it would need a battery the size of the whole card just to run an hour more than likely.

On this point Matthew you are incorrect 100%. The device IS ONLY SOLAR POWERED. It doesn't/can't plug into anything. Yet, has a screen and transmitter and provides all the functionality discussed. I asked them how long it could go without any sunlight and the answer was "several months". In fact it is so power-efficient that the retail version (production model) can enable it to power itself from occasional bending (bending the device back and forth to charge it) or even from pushing the buttons during normal usage.

Power is not a problem with these.

The power-bending model we have not seen, it's something they spoke about possibly doing in the future.

I think Erik may have misheard on this one (Unless I did, because Im unsure as well)

The fact as I understand it is, the device has a battery that is always charging in sun light. However, it can run for 1 full month on 1 full charge.

I want one!  

One question: Why does the charge-life depend on how many times it is used/day? If it is constantly relaying transactions in a meshnet I don't see how the thing will hold charge for a month if it is acting to relay information in a meshnet?

I don't think thats how it works.

I'm sure I've read of technologies in development and possibly in production which produce energy from some physical force on an object (e.g. bending, rubbing, pressing, etc.)  I'll try and dig up some of the articles.

[Raoul Duke]

RE: why would you want a bitcoincard versus just using your cellphone:  I personally think you'll want both; I'm trying to convince them that the bitcoincard could be a perfect "second device" for multisignature transactions. Cell phone viruses and trojans and malware will be the next big wave of security vulnerabilities.

Now, this would make me buy one.

[Nejc Kodric (BitStamp.net)]

I loved the bitcoin card, it fits perfectly to my wallet

Best regards,
Nejc Kodrič
www.Bitstamp.net

[proudhon]

RE: why would you want a bitcoincard versus just using your cellphone:  I personally think you'll want both; I'm trying to convince them that the bitcoincard could be a perfect "second device" for multisignature transactions. Cell phone viruses and trojans and malware will be the next big wave of security vulnerabilities.

Now, this would make me buy one.

Yes, I'd be all over that.  Something small enough to keep in my wallet, so that it's typically on my person that I can use for multisig with my phone or, say, an untrusted computer or something.

[Elwar]

I can tell you that ALL of your problems have been thought about and addressed.

Can it take a bullet?

[punningclan]

From the site it sounds like giving them away free to your friends or handing them out as incentives instead of calculators, pens, and paper weights is going to be a big possibility and certainly much easier for folks not willing or able to delve into the intricacies of installing the client. Most importantly they are promoting these cards to businesses so the combination of complete anonymity and perfect customer tracking just has to be a panacea for them. Additionally with the wireless mesh, swiper, no more swiping!    

[interlagos]

RE: why would you want a bitcoincard versus just using your cellphone:  I personally think you'll want both; I'm trying to convince them that the bitcoincard could be a perfect "second device" for multisignature transactions. Cell phone viruses and trojans and malware will be the next big wave of security vulnerabilities.

Now, this would make me buy one.

Yes, I'd be all over that.  Something small enough to keep in my wallet, so that it's typically on my person that I can use for multisig with my phone or, say, an untrusted computer or something.

I don't think it would be simple to implement.
As I understood the radio technology used in the card is different from wireless technologies used in phones so they won't be able to communicate.

Also the card can only store two Bitcoin addresses and two private keys at the moment.
So either it would need to share one of those for multisig or drop this functionality all together.

Edit: it seems that I confused the limit of two inputs and two outputs per transaction with the limit on private keys. More info is here: http://bitcoincard.org/product.php

[cbeast]

It sounds like it uses Texas Instruments ULP. 

[World]

In the future will everything be open source exclusive for bitcoin network?
Will have customers and merchants the ability to customize a design?
Can the USB dongle work on all cross-platform ?
thx

[EhVedadoOAnonimato]

There is alot of money behind this project, in the double digit millions.

 

It's quite amazing that they've decided, as a first use case for they're product, to make it a bitcoin transmitting device.
Rich entrepreneurs are starting to see the potential of bitcoin.

[cypherdoc]

There is alot of money behind this project, in the double digit millions.

 

It's quite amazing that they've decided, as a first use case for they're product, to make it a bitcoin transmitting device.
Rich entrepreneurs are starting to see the potential of bitcoin.

Charlie, i hope you're not exaggerating this.