PAJKA.BOND - 100% PPS 15Mhash mining bond

[SOSLOVE868]

Never mind , I was said this might be collusion between it...but you guys are too simple too naive....You take this irrelevant topic as a defence to your poor math I mean it really a good things for you to spend that much time on me....I feel myself is so important to you...

I use your previous statements to further strengthen the argument that virtually everything you have said is bullshit.

You are not important more than my next fart, but you crap all over this thread with lies, baseless accusations against the issuer (and every issuer of any asset, for that matter), wild speculations about exponential growth in computing power, insane theories about nuclear fission in Bitcoin mining...

You are so far away from any sense of reality that if anyone coming here believed one word of your statements (which you've now admitted are wrong) they might make the wrong decisions, just like you have done.

I made a mistake here, if upgrade today... you will get most of you fund back by next year...  this what I do not believe with...

You don't even believe your own math anymore. Previously, it was 4500 days, then it was 10 years, now it's a year and even that isn't correct. Do you see how your calculations don't make any sense? You don't know how to apply the numbers.

That's why you must be answered; to have people coming here see that what you are saying is insane at the very best.

You can stop at any time but as long as you keep barfing up your crap, I'll have to respond to keep others from listening to you.

The choice is yours; I cannot dictate your behavior but I can help others be damaged by it.

Oh, and look, your statement that the market will surely force PAJKA down to 0.021 seems to be, what, utter bullshit like the rest of your promises? In fact, from you bottomed out at 0.6, the price has risen 50%. How's that for 'the market will surely teach me a lesson'?

.b

Are you mad ?I said is if not upgrade it will takes 4500days to recovery!!!!!! if upgrade today and according today's difficulty it will recovery in next year...but stop...BFL will delivery ? if really BFL delivery to the issuer, and the issuer does not let you know..how could you notice that ?

I have attach the website for you to do the calculation, despite it is not perfect as what I use in Chinese version..but much better than what you have used.
I do not made judgement about anything , math did. you ignoring all those factors that will push up the difficulty, it makes you look more mad..anyway , It's your money and your choice...the problem here is I selling what I like...it is you start to talk with me ..your incentive to protect the owners look like you and him have some collusion.....why no body criticize about what decision I have made ..this is free market, you start try to convince me to holding PAJKA BOND and latter on ,You determine what you did is not working. then you start criticize about my date and my math... and during the time non of other people has joint to our argument.Even the issuer is silent !!!!

This just ridiculous? first you pretending as a professional investor who try to teach out newbies do not worry about PAJKA bond...is this really are your business to doing that? unbelievable, I feel so sick of you ....I do not needs you to teach me how to invest and what is PMB, take off your dirty mask, shows the ugly face behind the dirty mask...


  

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[SOSLOVE868]

Never mind , I was said this might be collusion between it...but you guys are too simple too naive....You take this irrelevant topic as a defence to your poor math I mean it really a good things for you to spend that much time on me....I feel myself is so important to you...

I use your previous statements to further strengthen the argument that virtually everything you have said is bullshit.

You are not important more than my next fart, but you crap all over this thread with lies, baseless accusations against the issuer (and every issuer of any asset, for that matter), wild speculations about exponential growth in computing power, insane theories about nuclear fission in Bitcoin mining...

You are so far away from any sense of reality that if anyone coming here believed one word of your statements (which you've now admitted are wrong) they might make the wrong decisions, just like you have done.

I made a mistake here, if upgrade today... you will get most of you fund back by next year...  this what I do not believe with...

You don't even believe your own math anymore. Previously, it was 4500 days, then it was 10 years, now it's a year and even that isn't correct. Do you see how your calculations don't make any sense? You don't know how to apply the numbers.

That's why you must be answered; to have people coming here see that what you are saying is insane at the very best.

You can stop at any time but as long as you keep barfing up your crap, I'll have to respond to keep others from listening to you.

The choice is yours; I cannot dictate your behavior but I can help others be damaged by it.

Oh, and look, your statement that the market will surely force PAJKA down to 0.021 seems to be, what, utter bullshit like the rest of your promises? In fact, from you bottomed out at 0.6, the price has risen 50%. How's that for 'the market will surely teach me a lesson'?

.b

Half years later , we will see who made right prediction about this BOND...it is point less to continuing this topic by nonsense argument ..time will tells everything... OK?? after half years ,if I made wrong decision, I will pay 5 BTC to you !!otherwise you owns me a apologize, you start with your stupid personal attack in this conversation...and I am out with it .

Are you brave enough to do bet with me ?
otherwise ,please shut up.... 

[furuknap]

Are you mad ?I said is if not upgrade it will takes 4500days to recovery!!!!!!

Wrong, as shown before.

if upgrade today and according today's difficulty it will recovery in next year...but stop...BFL will delivery ? if really BFL delivery to the issuer, and the issuer does not let you know..how could you notice that ?

Answered before.

I have attach the website for you to do the calculation, despite it is not perfect as what I use in Chinese version..but much better than what you have used.

You still have no idea what I've used. I have said this before.

I do not made judgement about anything , math did.

Your assumptions are wrong as is your application.

And to answer your question about my math, here's one for you:
2+2=4

See? My math is perfect. Like you, I have no idea how to apply that to anything, but hey, it doesn't stop you from pulling numbers out of your ass.

I have said this before.

you ignoring all those factors that will push up the difficulty

You still have no idea what factors I take into account. I have said this before.

your incentive to protect the owners look like you and him have some collusion.....

You need to back up such conspiracy accusations with some fact. I have said this before.

why no body criticize about what decision I have made

Uhm... You don't get it, do you? Nobody is criticizing your decision. It is your decision to make. I have said this before.

..this is free market, you start try to convince me to holding PAJKA BOND and latter on ,You determine what you did is not working. then you start criticize about my date and my math... and during the time non of other people has joint to our argument.Even the issuer is silent !!!!

I'm not trying to convince you of anything. You're trying to convince everyone that the issuer is dishonest, that there is a conspiracy between the issuer and myself, that every asset except from ASICMiner is a scam, that Intel has 0.5nm(!) chips ready to do Bitcoin mining and everyone else has 5nm chips, that a key insider in Avalon is conspiring with ASICMiner to keep share price high, that you first had 450 bonds, then you had 500 bonds, then that you sold the majority above 0.1... This list goes on and on...

I have said this before.

This just ridiculous? first you pretending as a professional investor who try to teach out newbies do not worry about PAJKA bond...is this really are your business to doing that?

No, it is my business to do consulting in SharePoint. However, despite my exposure to PAJKA being minimal, I feel a responsibility for pointing out bullshit trolls like you so that others don't make the same mistakes you do and lose 15-20% of their investments in two weeks.

I have said this before.

unbelievable, I feel so sick of you ....I do not you teach me how to invest and what is PMB, take off your dirty mask, shows the ugly face behind the dirty mask...

So, then it comes down to it, you can't respond to any arguments, just repeat the same argument over and over as if they then become more true. When that fails you resort to racist remarks about my ethnicity, age, and physical appearance.

Do you see how this doesn't really translate to anything sensible?

.b

[furuknap]

Half years later , we will see who made right prediction about this BOND...it is point less to continuing this topic by nonsense argument ..time will tells everything... OK?? after half years ,if I made wrong decision, I will pay 5 BTC to you !!otherwise you owns me a apologize, you start with your stupid personal attack in this conversation...and I am out with it .

Are you brave enough to do bet with me ?
otherwise ,please shut up.... 

This has nothing to do with bravery. I do not trust you for a second, but even if I did, there is no clear definition of what is 'wrong' so the bet is unresolvable.

Tell you what, why don't we bet that the shares I bought from you can be resold at a profit within those 6 months? That will prove that you made the 'wrong' decision, where 'wrong' is defined as you selling at too low a price.

.b

[logicbomb666]

@ furuknap  -  Please stop posting clear and accurate arguments.  It's obvious this child will never shut up, so please stop so he will stop and I will stop getting new post updates for this thread. 

[SOSLOVE868]

Half years later , we will see who made right prediction about this BOND...it is point less to continuing this topic by nonsense argument ..time will tells everything... OK?? after half years ,if I made wrong decision, I will pay 5 BTC to you !!otherwise you owns me a apologize, you start with your stupid personal attack in this conversation...and I am out with it .

Are you brave enough to do bet with me ?
otherwise ,please shut up.... 

This has nothing to do with bravery. I do not trust you for a second, but even if I did, there is no clear definition of what is 'wrong' so the bet is unresolvable.

Tell you what, why don't we bet that the shares I bought from you can be resold at a profit within those 6 months? That will prove that you made the 'wrong' decision, where 'wrong' is defined as you selling at too low a price.

.b

OK..It should be regarding to the 15 days market average price... during the future 6 months if 15 days market average price per contract is above 0.094 and there are certain trading volume to support that price.(around 1 BTC been trading for each days) and it must shows not remaining asks below this price ,and certain bid price close to it. In case to ensure you are not manipulate the price.  can you do that ? if you can lets bet with me.
Then I will pay you 5 BTC straightaway  , otherwise you need gives me a apologize .

[furuknap]

@ furuknap  -  Please stop posting clear and accurate arguments.  It's obvious this child will never shut up, so please stop so he will stop and I will stop getting new post updates for this thread. 

 

[SOSLOVE868]

@ furuknap  -  Please stop posting clear and accurate arguments.  It's obvious this child will never shut up, so please stop so he will stop and I will stop getting new post updates for this thread. 

seems you did not understand what will happen either....Alright...look at PAMB 7days trends and RTM 7days trading trends on BITFUNDER...
I will stop posting... feel sorry to you guys loss in the future...

Good bye....

[furuknap]

Tell you what, why don't we bet that the shares I bought from you can be resold at a profit within those 6 months? That will prove that you made the 'wrong' decision, where 'wrong' is defined as you selling at too low a price.

OK..It should be regarding to the 15 days market average price... during the future 6 months if 15 days market average price per contract is above 0.094 and there are certain trading volume to support that price.(around 1 BTC been trading for each days) and it must shows not remaining asks below this price ,and certain bid price close to it. In case to ensure you are not manipulate the price.  can you do that ? if you can lets bet with me.
Then I will pay you 5 BTC straightaway  , otherwise you need gives me a apologize .

No, you can't read either obviously. Let me restate:

The shares I bought from you can be resold at a profit within those 6 months.

.b

[furuknap]

@ furuknap  -  Please stop posting clear and accurate arguments.  It's obvious this child will never shut up, so please stop so he will stop and I will stop getting new post updates for this thread. 

seems you did not understand what will happen either....Alright...look at PAMB 7days trends and RTM 7days trading trends on BITFUNDER...
I will stop posting... feel sorry to you guys loss in the future...

Good bye....

It seems like more and more people 'did not understand what will happen either'.

Or you're simply wrong.

Again.

I'm happy to hear you come to your senses about stopping your trolling, though. There may be hope for you yet, unless, of course, you come back with more ridiculousness.

In fact, let's ignore the bet too because I would be able to win that bet within minutes of you accepting my terms, considering the bids are already above what I paid. I wanted to teach you a lesson but if you now stop trolling, I'll reveal that 'ploy' and let you off the hook.

.b

[SOSLOVE868]

Tell you what, why don't we bet that the shares I bought from you can be resold at a profit within those 6 months? That will prove that you made the 'wrong' decision, where 'wrong' is defined as you selling at too low a price.

OK..It should be regarding to the 15 days market average price... during the future 6 months if 15 days market average price per contract is above 0.094 and there are certain trading volume to support that price.(around 1 BTC been trading for each days) and it must shows not remaining asks below this price ,and certain bid price close to it. In case to ensure you are not manipulate the price.  can you do that ? if you can lets bet with me.
Then I will pay you 5 BTC straightaway  , otherwise you need gives me a apologize .

No, you can't read either obviously. Let me restate:

The shares I bought from you can be resold at a profit within those 6 months.

.b

I sold my contracts at average of 0.094 ,how many did you buy over me?
Other thing here , I could use this btc backed from you to make more return on investment whether TAT.V we all know it been approved by BTCT or G.AM with capital gain in short run or constant dividend..If you could not sell my contracts what you have ? needless dividend decline with time.


Really pointless to continuing this discussion, can we just stop here? ?as this free market ,every one makes their own judgement about what future's look like...before the time really coming, you and me no one will commit he is wrong...

[carnitastaco]

are any holders of Pajka interested in writing put options or lending shares? if so please pm me to discuss prices/terms...

I'm interested in durations >1 month

[joele]

Best time to buy while the value still low.

[jjdub7]

*Sigh*...let's try this again. 

PMB's would be worthless if they had more variation associated with the payout, yes.  However, because the payouts are completely pre-determined, they are valuable as an alternative to short-term wallet storage, as they accrue interest.  In this sense, they operate like a running savings account or a CD (certificate of deposit - and yes, you can operate them exactly like a CD by buying/selling options).

The yield on the bonds, much like the yield of a savings account, is driven by market forces - in this case, difficulty.  Just like in the real world, interest rates are driven very close to zero as an economy becomes fully developed.

Yes, a certain amount of risk arises from liquidity constraints, but overall, the holder determines the ask price at the end of the day.  In this sense, the bonds you hold should never lose value, only liquidity, and this is only if there are viable, low-risk alternatives in the stock market to these bonds. 

The only way you should ever lose money on the sale of a PMB is if you're foolish enough to withdraw them all at once at bid price.  That's your loss.  The price will naturally crash if there is a 'run on the bank' in the corresponding PMB market.

I'll say it again - these bonds function in the same exact way that a savings account/CD does.  You lock in your funds, trading liquidity for interest.

If anyone is still going on about PMB's after this, they just don't understand what the terms bond, savings account, or liquidity mean.

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

CDs pay you positive interest. PMBs pay you negative interest the majority of the time. That's the problem here.

If any PMBs with sufficient volume (includes PAJKA.BOND) outperforms CoinLenders which offers actual CDs (that gives you a POSITIVE return, not a negative one like PMBs), I'll bet you 100 BTC 1:1.

The only way you should ever lose money on the sale of a PMB is if you're foolish enough to withdraw them all at once at bid price.

The difficulty is increasing by 30% per two weeks recently. Let's half that, 15%/wk growth. A 3MH/s PMB will only ever pay you out ~0.01 BTC.

Saying that the difficulty will go down is like saying that the difficulty will be back in thousands when GPU mining started. We will be measuring difficulties in billions once ASICs really hit, and trillions when next gen ASICs hit.

[jjdub7]

Tell you what, why don't we bet that the shares I bought from you can be resold at a profit within those 6 months? That will prove that you made the 'wrong' decision, where 'wrong' is defined as you selling at too low a price.

OK..It should be regarding to the 15 days market average price... during the future 6 months if 15 days market average price per contract is above 0.094 and there are certain trading volume to support that price.(around 1 BTC been trading for each days) and it must shows not remaining asks below this price ,and certain bid price close to it. In case to ensure you are not manipulate the price.  can you do that ? if you can lets bet with me.
Then I will pay you 5 BTC straightaway  , otherwise you need gives me a apologize .

No, you can't read either obviously. Let me restate:

The shares I bought from you can be resold at a profit within those 6 months.

.b

I sold my contracts at average of 0.094 ,how many did you buy over me?
Other thing here , I could use this btc backed from you to make more return on investment whether TAT.V we all know it been approved by BTCT or G.AM with capital gain in short run or constant dividend..If you could not sell my contracts what you have ? needless dividend decline with time.


Really pointless to continuing this discussion, can we just stop here? ?as this free market ,every one makes their own judgement about what future's look like...before the time really coming, you and me no one will commit he is wrong...

You dumped all your bonds on the market at once, a move usually reserved for those who are desperate for liquidity, and you almost definitely took a loss on that sale.  That's your fault.  If you would've held the ask line, you could've slowly divested at a smaller loss or even at a profit, but you chose to dump your assets on the market all at once, giving a lot of investors a nice, cheap buy-in on an asset that's already almost recovered to its normal price.

You go on and on about numbers, but you forget the most important variable in trading - time.  Sure, TAT's bonds pay a higher yield, I'll give you that.  But there's no way you recovered what you lost in your panic-selloff by buying TAT's bonds at 0.007 and selling at 0.00725.  If you would've slowly divested, you might've been able to pull a better return.

[jjdub7]

CDs pay you positive interest. PMBs pay you negative interest the majority of the time. That's the problem here.

If any PMBs with sufficient volume (includes PAJKA.BOND) outperforms CoinLenders which offers actual CDs (that gives you a POSITIVE return, not a negative one like PMBs), I'll bet you 100 BTC 1:1.

The only way you should ever lose money on the sale of a PMB is if you're foolish enough to withdraw them all at once at bid price.

The difficulty is increasing by 30% per two weeks recently. Let's half that, 15%/wk growth. A 3MH/s PMB will only ever pay you out ~0.01 BTC.

Saying that the difficulty will go down is like saying that the difficulty will be back in thousands when GPU mining started. We will be measuring difficulties in billions once ASICs really hit, and trillions when next gen ASICs hit.

TF, again, the issue isn't that the bonds lose value - they're not "worth" anything themselves.  But consider situations like we have right now with US treasuries with interest rates near zero...as the interest rate approaches zero, treasuries and cash essentially become the same thing conceptually.  For people with "loose" BTC in their wallets and no liquidity constraints, the PMB is the better option because its still earning interest (no matter how small the interest is).

EDIT: And I should've mentioned it again, but PMB's are a terrible long-term investment, yes.  My argument is based on short-term storage, not long-term gains.

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

jjdub, as one of the vocal pumpers of PMBs which are causing people to lose money (while you probably try to sell your own PMBs), I'd like to offer you a wager.

I send 100 BTC to John. You send 100 BTC to John. If PAJKA.BOND (dividends - capital loss) outperforms CoinLenders (1.06123x) over 90 days, you get 198 BTC. If not, I get 198 BTC.

If you are not willing to put your money where your mouth is, kindly stop misleading people with misleading investment advice.

For people with "loose" BTC in their wallets and no liquidity constraints, the PMB is the better option because its still earning interest (no matter how small the interest is).

No it is not, you are losing money. If I pay you 1% of interest a week, but my bonds go down in value by 1.5% a week, that's called losing money.

[jjdub7]

Sorry, edited too late, my bad...

EDIT: And I should've mentioned it again, but PMB's are a terrible long-term investment, yes.  My argument is based on short-term storage, not long-term gains.

Don't get me wrong, investors should know what they're dealing with with PMB's.  However, because they're listed on the same exchanges as other assets, you don't have to pay mining fees upon transfer to get into an interest-paying situation.  I'm still not selling my PMB's either, because they're in my portfolio to balance out risk from other assets I hold.  I'm not trying to pump them by any means, just making sure people know what they are and what the risks associated with them are (I only hold 3 PMB's, all PAJKA, and I do have BTC spread out in other places as well).

[jjdub7]

TF,

The entire argument here wasn't whether they were the best investment out there, it was whether they're worth anything at all.  Any asset that pays dividends/coupons and has resale liquidity has value, and that's what I've been saying on here.

And I haven't exactly been spamming this info everywhere...my only posts regarding PMB's have been in this thread, TAT's VM thread, and one more on the glossary thread I started.  I can see how pro-PMB posts annoy you, as PMB's are a direct (albeit not the best) substitute for your service, but its not like I've been pumping PMB's by bad-mouthing any alternative service.