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Author Topic: [ANN] Freicoin: demurrage crypto-currency from the Occupy movement (crowdfund)  (Read 56307 times)
maaku
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April 28, 2013, 07:30:06 PM
 #301

Checks and balances. There's concern that the proof-of-stake voting could be gerrymandered into "pay me all the demurrage. kthx!" The miners would be able to reject such a budget (at a cost).

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TheSwede75
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April 28, 2013, 08:42:50 PM
 #302

So, there is a lot of 'Freicoin is dead' going around. How accurate is this?
maaku
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April 28, 2013, 08:53:08 PM
 #303

Reports of Freicoins demise have been greatly exaggerated.

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April 29, 2013, 03:28:21 AM
 #304

So, there is a lot of 'Freicoin is dead' going around. How accurate is this?

Just have a look at the links below and you tell me if it is DEAD?

1. http://coinchoose.com/  <--- Profitabilty for FRC?
2. https://bter.com/trade/frc_btc <--- Trade volume for FRC?
3. http://1.cr.rs/ <--- Hash Rate for FRC?
4. http://www.freicoin.org/general-f8.html  <--- Goods and services available to purchase for FRC?
5. http://www.freicoin.org/mining-pools-list-for-frc-t251.html <--- Pools with FRC?
6. http://www.freicoin.org/freicoin-foundation-f15.html <--- Developers and Users Discussion of the (as yet formed) Foundation for FRC?

------- LONG WINDED SPEECH IGNORE IF YOU LIKE ------------

There are certainly those who do not know very much about FRC and spread what really amounts to propaganda and ignorance because of lack of understanding or just brainwashing or group think particularly those of the right leaning neo-libertarians who for the most part live in the 1700's where everyone should be given their parcel of land and have unlimited rights to do what they damn well please and gov't should not exist. Unfortunately with 6 billion + humans the tragedy of the commons is more about the unlimited and unregulated power of corporations backed up by these neo-cons or neo-libertarians who undercut democracy and real progress. Having said that I welcome Anarchists or even these Neo-Cons to join FRC and work to have the foundation simply destroy the coin and have it recycled back to the miners. That is just as good as any other option that has been discussed about the foundations roll in the 80% dispensation.

I for one just can't sit back and listen to pure conjecture and typically misinformation of what amounts to people who really don't give a shit about this altcoin and are flexing their brains in a philosophical discussion that has already been debated and over the past 30 years. Trickle down doesn't work. 0 government doesn't work and neo-libertarianism as defined and co-opted by Ron Paul and his ilk definitely won't work given that corporations control the gov't and the purse strings of govt. To have a debate about a user defined democratic dispensation of funds can work if people get involved and be HONEST about the checks and balances. I for one appreciate that humanity can work collectively and support the bootstrapping of projects like this. My suggestion for the people with no real vision is to simply AVOID FRC and let those who see that the Demurrage alone is the selling point of this altcoin and that when adopted widely FRC will be a means of exchange not a means of storing value longer term. BTC can be for those speculators. In fact mine FRC and then convert it to BTC win win win for everyone. If you want to join in the honest debate then do so... if you are just here to rehash backwards and limited political theory of the right wing establishment in America then do it elsewhere.

I want to see a coin that can be lent to users at 0% interest that to me means more than anything in this debate. That 80% of the first 3 years will eventually be recycled back into the miners hand so to me better we actually find the best way as USERS to help everyone use this coin. If you don't want to get involved just don't,  but make sure you don't lie and misrepresent the efforts of hundreds of people simply because you want avoid a world with any human collectivism. The irrational fear of a central control and all the ills associated with it can be worked in a more PARECON arrangement or PARPOLITY something that results in REAL DIRECT DEMOCRACY at work, home and throughout society. I for one want that not some world where those with the means to buy computers and have cheap electricity can lord over the rest of the billions on our planet that do not have that access. Pure hypocrisy is what I see from those who argue for a purely technological answer to democracy and equality of bitcoin. What is frightening about those who are so vocal against FRC is that complete hypocrisy and detachment from reality with regards to democracy and equality. I chalk it up to indoctrination... but it could be ignorance or a lack of reading or better yet they are just too fucking lazy to get involved and support a community other than those who look the same talk the same or have the same last name. Really sad.

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April 29, 2013, 03:50:34 AM
 #305

So, there is a lot of 'Freicoin is dead' going around. How accurate is this?

don't worry,  there are no signs of coin dying.

I do monitor every coin every day. if anything worrying starts to happen again, this is the thread I'll ask for proofs od good FRC condion. if I dont get them I'll propose moove to dying in the sticky. if there would be no objections with serious arguments, it will be considered dying by community. so there you have it - it's a long way do be considered dying.

ignore crazy promotional or crazy FUD threads posts. those are just trying to be a manipulation .

p.s.

If you are ever gonna do a mandatory client update, I strongly suggest adopting PPC's difficulty adjustment in it.
no alt is going to be stable without it. maybe LTC can do it, but small sha256 coin cant.

maaku
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April 29, 2013, 04:42:01 AM
 #306

If you are ever gonna do a mandatory client update, I strongly suggest adopting PPC's difficulty adjustment in it.
no alt is going to be stable without it. maybe LTC can do it, but small sha256 coin cant.
The PPC difficulty adjustment algorithm has some properties we don't like. We are currently working on our own difficulty adjustment algorithm that will have relatively fast impulse response.

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Ignore@YourPeril
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April 29, 2013, 01:53:54 PM
 #307

A bicamerate proof-of-work/proof-of-stake congress would first come to agreement on the split between money going directly to miners and money distributed through budgeting. Then the proof-of-stake voters would come up with a budget, of which the proof-of-work voters (miners) would have veto power. If it passes, it then becomes the network rule: blocks are rejected unless that portion of the funds are spent within the coinbase according to the current budget.

What about introducing some kind of duo-coin for this purpose? Let's say we have a 'Senate' coin much like PPCoin, with one vital exception: All it gets in POS revenue (only freicoin proper) from the coin generation and regenerated demurrage can only be spent on a list of grantees voted over by the present holders of freicoin proper (or for a simpler solution: POW workers), possibly even with an option for negative voting to suppress scam charities.

With this I envisage Senate coin to have utility as a gift-coin, but not much more. A gift coin, especially suitable for gifting to youngsters with a lot of idealism, to be transferred to the gift recipients favorite charity for there to generate revenue in perpetuity. Thus network security will in the long run be centralized somewhat to be operated by charities. But I can´t see much downside to that - other than you might have to redesign the generated coins to be distributed not per block but rather as a subsidy for tx-fees (to give an incentive to small charities for investing in decent hardware and network connection). Gesellians (i am only a Gesell agnostic btw) might be inclined to give their senate coins to free land charities. There will certainly be a market for the Senate coin, but with a suitable long quarantine period after last transaction for POS generation to commence, the coin will naturally gravitate towards being held long term by an accepted charity.

Voting for the accepted list of charities by POW can be attacked by any large holder of hashing power (something like a voting 51% attack). But this would also be a motivation for anyone with a strong conviction of which charities should be accepted (or not, if negative voting is allowed) to be hashing away on their private PC (or more likely with political mining pools). Even if this protection is just partly successful charities that are not very highly regarded will be at an disadvantage. This because the charity trying to cling on to the list will incur extra expenses for hashing power wich after a while will make it more economical for the charity to rather sell their Senate coins on an exchange. We could even distill this all the way to have an exclusive political POW, not being allowed to keep any tx-fees or coin generation (which then over time will be recycled by demurrage); the miner will be hashing away only motivated by the privilege of voting rights. There could arise some POW hashing-war scenarios between belligerents over who should be white- or blacklisted, but this will never be of the magnitude of having all of the demurrage benefit to POW.
RetardedMonkey
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April 29, 2013, 01:57:27 PM
 #308

ignore crazy promotional or crazy FUD threads posts. those are just trying to be a manipulation .

This is definitely something important.

Just because an alt coin has a lot of threads here going on and on about how great it is, doesn't mean it is great.

I must admit, I've been surprised at how long FRC has flown under the radar for an extremely different and innovative coin.

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May 01, 2013, 05:29:48 PM
 #309

0 confirmation after 3 day.....what and how to do? i deleted everything but keep wallet, re-install all thing in new and still 0 confirmation  Huh

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May 01, 2013, 06:07:08 PM
 #310

If you have problems recovering your wallet, or any other technical question, I recommend the official freicoin forum: http://www.freicoin.org/technical-support-f16.html

If you make a clean install of freicion you should replace its generated wallet.dat with your backed up wallet.dat, so you are certain to restore the backed up wallet _after_  re-installing the freicoin client.
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May 02, 2013, 03:46:29 AM
 #311

Does anyone knowledgable of Freicoin have formulas for:

1) The value of the current block reward
2) The current money supply (other variable block reward coins have a "moneysupply" field in the getinfo response)

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May 02, 2013, 07:04:13 AM
 #312

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=133020.msg1420188#msg1420188
galambo
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May 02, 2013, 11:41:57 AM
 #313

Does anyone knowledgable of Freicoin have formulas for:

1) The value of the current block reward
2) The current money supply (other variable block reward coins have a "moneysupply" field in the getinfo response)

1)

mining

before 161280   -0.000986912724567928 * block number + 254.53671561
after 161280   95.36743164

foundation

before 161280      496.03174604

2)

if cryptocoinexplorer ever comes back up its listed on there, or you can use the formula above to calculate the money supply
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May 03, 2013, 01:44:17 PM
 #314

Freicoin is now trading on Vircurex and it looks like there is an order that is really high!

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May 03, 2013, 01:55:31 PM
 #315

I have to restrain myself heavily from saying:

this coin is the biggest piece of shit ever made

don't waste your time... fuck you occupy

If this is a ban-able offense please inform me and i will edit my post.
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May 03, 2013, 01:59:08 PM
 #316

I have to restrain myself heavily from saying:

this coin is the biggest piece of shit ever made

don't waste your time... fuck you occupy

If this is a ban-able offense please inform me and i will edit my post.

Not sure if it is bannable Smiley, but specifics would be nice.  Why do you dislike it?

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May 03, 2013, 03:39:04 PM
 #317

funny thing is, Freicoin isn't much compatible to the Occupy-crowd.

Silvio Gesell and his Freiwirtschaft theories are usually considered rather reactionary and bourgeois-y by the German left and are rather located as something from the political spectrum towards the right.

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May 03, 2013, 04:26:23 PM
 #318

Freicoin can now be traded on Vircurex.com
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May 03, 2013, 05:08:53 PM
 #319

funny thing is, Freicoin isn't much compatible to the Occupy-crowd.

If a freiconomy can remove interest on mortgages, then this surely will avail much of the financial sorrows of the common Occupyer. Political labeling of wether to call the theory left or right is not relevant when you narrow it down to that.
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May 03, 2013, 06:29:53 PM
 #320

If a freiconomy can remove interest on mortgages, then this surely will avail much of the financial sorrows of the common Occupyer. Political labeling of wether to call the theory left or right is not relevant when you narrow it down to that.

doesn't matter, leftish idealists and Marxists would call it "verkürzte Kapitalismuskritik", that would translate to something like (dangerously) reduced critique of capitalism.

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