Paycoin (XPY) is scam

[barabbas]

I thinki you have it all wrong... Starting February 1st, you will have 30 days to claim your $20 per PayCoin by following the instructions that will be fully revealed on February 1st. So nothing actually will happen in 5 days, except people reactions to the official announcement of the rules to be followed.

This update/announcement also mentioned other products/features waiting for implementation (regulatory green light). So far -and will be for another month and 5 days-, he is on track with his commitments so, quite frankly, I find your assumptions and those of so many here, baseless speculation.

Wait and see would be the right attitude at this point but, who cares about right attitudes, right?

[DaveWave]

I thinki you have it all wrong... Starting February 1st, you will have 30 days to claim your $20 per PayCoin by following the instructions that will be fully revealed on February 1st. So nothing actually will happen in 5 days, except people reactions to the official announcement of the rules to be followed.

This update/announcement also mentioned other products/features waiting for implementation (regulatory green light). So far -and will be for another month and 5 days-, he is on track with his commitments so, quite frankly, I find your assumptions and those of so many here, baseless speculation.

Wait and see would be the right attitude at this point but, who cares about right attitudes, right?

Errr, I said he plans to announce plans on the 1st but nothing would happen for another month. I'm totally agreeing with you on that point.

I apologise for baseless speculation lol

[DaveWave]

...but playing devil's advocate, if you were sat on 12 millions pre-mined shares, if you wanted to sell that for as much as possible, its pretty good to make as many people as possible think they're getting a steal at 1 or 2 dollars?

Just saying.

For the record, I have no financial interest in this either way. Have you?

[barabbas]

...but playing devil's advocate, if you were sat on 12 millions pre-mined shares, if you wanted to sell that for as much as possible, its pretty good to make as many people as possible think they're getting a steal at 1 or 2 dollars?

Just saying.

For the record, I have no financial interest in this either way. Have you?

Trying to figure out others, especially extraordinarily successful individuals such as Garza, by assuming that "you" would do what they do, is an exercise in futility for what you do and have done has brought you to your present reality and what he has done up until now has brought him to quite a significantly different one. So no point in answering what would I do.  I can tell you what I believe, instead, which can be very off or very close to what he will do, in case you are interested... here it goes:

-- With the money he has already collected selling XPY to investors, he has SEVERAL MONTHS leeway to start exchanging 1 XPY for $20 in BTC. Many months or regaining 100% credibility -or close to that-, at no real expense to him because the exchange would be funded by that money already collected.

-- With that credibility reinstated and fool proofed, the price of XPY surely would go considerably higher, thus resulting in much more value for whatever is the remaining premined stake he holds: win-win. And still not a single penny coming out of his pocket.

-- Paybase will become a very solidly established exchange, fully compliant and with many more accounts than any other, certainly many more than Coinbase. put on that business the value that you deem reasonable... I believe it will be worth a fortune.

These are just three of the many possibilities -non- exclusive of each other- that I am sure he is or has considering/ed. All legit. All costing ZERO. All full of possibilities of sustained, great riches.

Now, following your line of thought, he will choose to exile himself and his family while keeping whatever money he's able to scam... it just doesn't stack up, to me, that is, as a viable alternative for him. Or for anyone else. You see, to me it is cheaper -saving legal costs, alone-, way cheaper, for him to do the right thing, the one he has announces and guaranteed he will do, more efficient -no exile, no legal battles- and ultimately much more profitable.

But that is just me, of course. And that is why I remain very modestly invested in XPY -and trading most of it when given the chance-. There are reasons, as you can see, sustaining my opinion and my position... I don't really see any supporting the former in your case.

[DaveWave]

Unless he says, gee guys, market forces, sorry, tried my best. Got to go now. Love you lots.

He's a clever man you know, not the most honest person, evidenced by how he chooses to ignore reasonable questions on his own forum.

So, can I ask how much you have invested?

[barabbas]

Unless he says, gee guys, market forces, sorry, tried my best. Got to go now. Love you lots.

He's a clever man you know, not the most honest person, evidenced by how he chooses to ignore reasonable questions on his own forum.

So, can I ask how much you have invested?

I he says "gee guys, market forces, sorry, tried my best." it equals class action lawsuit, first, regulators after his ass immediately following. He loses all assets and has to flee or go to jail. So, sorry, but no easy way out with the money. He either puts up of loses everything, including his freedom. Like Bernie Madoff. Why would he do that when it costs him nothing to make good on his warranty AND he still will have his business AND new, very profitable ones, plus millions and millions of coins worth much more? Makes no sense at all...

In his forums he chooses to avoid conflict, which is different from avoiding "reasonable questions". Engaging in the forum would inevitable lead to enormous waste to time and effort... for no positive outcome, so why would he do it? He just updated what comes next for the project. There's absolutely no reason to answer 100 times the same questions and getting enraged by the same assumptions/speculation... why would he do that either?

At this point he's obviously not doing anything to manipulate the market in any way and just the bare minimum to keep the invested community updated as to the current development of the project. Which is wise and efficient. Let the chips fall where the may. Those doubting the outcome, will continue selling; those who expect positive things in the future will continue holding and price will reflect these market forces at play for the time being. No more story beyond raw speculation at this time.

My investment in XPY is very modest... even if I price it at the $20 exchange rate. And, like I said before, I trade it frequently. My most recent sale took place for a quick 13% profit a couple days ago and I sold at the 0.0087 level. I do have some coins I purchased much higher though... very modest nonetheless, as I stated before.

[DaveWave]

Always makes me wonder how two supposedly same people can have such a different view.

Hope you don't loose any money

Good luck pal

[DaveWave]

Oh yeah, didn't he set up this virtual mining thing where you pay money and then this internet page shows how many bitcoins you made.

Hmm. like I pay you 1 bitcoin a month to make some mining but due to market conditions, not my fault honest guv, but I can only pay you 0.9 back this month mate honest.

Ahhh, but to make up for your bad luck I make you very special offer, instead of giving you 0.9 bitcoin (cos I already sold for dollars back when they were $700) I offer you thousands of paycoins that cost me nothing cos i pre-mined them but I promise you they are worth more than $20 dollars each cos I have big wall street investor on-board so must be legit yeah?

And please, please will every body stop spreading FUD, I am a very honest person, just ask all the people I gave very important badges too on my forum for free. See how nice I am?

[barabbas]

That's what makes life interesting, isn't it?

In any case, I try to reason quite profusely why I have an opinion and not a different one; you, on the other hand, emit your opinion solely based on the premise that you believe Garza is and will ultimately be, a scam artist forced to fly the US and lose everything he has here... just to scam people for whatever he can in the premine sale. To me that is peanuts, compared with what he will make doing the right thing, so I don't believe Garza is a particularly virtuous man, but an intelligent one. And that's why I believe he will do what is best and most profitable for himself.

But, again, that's just the reasoning for my opinion. I don't know what the reasoning for your is, so I cannot either compare or judge it on its merits if any.

Edit to add: If he gave XPY out of his will, with no obligation to do so, I believe it is a very nice gesture since they may not cost him anything buit they most definitely have current, corroborated exchangeable value.

Again, while he may have some customer that are not very happy -I have not found one, frankly- there are TONS of them quite happy to do repeated business with his company.... and with his new projects. He must have some nice kind of kool-aid at the ready...

[Crestington]

Unless he says, gee guys, market forces, sorry, tried my best. Got to go now. Love you lots.

He's a clever man you know, not the most honest person, evidenced by how he chooses to ignore reasonable questions on his own forum.

So, can I ask how much you have invested?

I he says "gee guys, market forces, sorry, tried my best." it equals class action lawsuit, first, regulators after his ass immediately following. He loses all assets and has to flee or go to jail. So, sorry, but no easy way out with the money. He either puts up of loses everything, including his freedom. Like Bernie Madoff. Why would he do that when it costs him nothing to make good on his warranty AND he still will have his business AND new, very profitable ones, plus millions and millions of coins worth much more? Makes no sense at all...

In his forums he chooses to avoid conflict, which is different from avoiding "reasonable questions". Engaging in the forum would inevitable lead to enormous waste to time and effort... for no positive outcome, so why would he do it? He just updated what comes next for the project. There's absolutely no reason to answer 100 times the same questions and getting enraged by the same assumptions/speculation... why would he do that either?

At this point he's obviously not doing anything to manipulate the market in any way and just the bare minimum to keep the invested community updated as to the current development of the project. Which is wise and efficient. Let the chips fall where the may. Those doubting the outcome, will continue selling; those who expect positive things in the future will continue holding and price will reflect these market forces at play for the time being. No more story beyond raw speculation at this time.

My investment in XPY is very modest... even if I price it at the $20 exchange rate. And, like I said before, I trade it frequently. My most recent sale took place for a quick 13% profit a couple days ago and I sold at the 0.0087 level. I do have some coins I purchased much higher though... very modest nonetheless, as I stated before.

Personally I think it's the wrong method to regulate a Cryptocurrency at all because you have millions of dollars in costs for all legal, trademarking, paying employees, body guards etc.

Really, you don't need any of that at all. You can get the same end result without spending a dime and with a complete free market approach. the heart of what runs a Cryptocurrency is the protocol level itself and just a few people updating some stuff here and there can have a secure and thriving network without needing to spend millions of dollars on litigation.

You are right though, Josh needs to make good on his word otherwise he's done. I do think it's poor planning on their part to put themselves in these situations in the first place when you don't need to but hey it's definitely interesting to follow a Cryptocurrency trying to get regulated hard by the government.

[barabbas]

I fully disagree: Regulation -and subsequent full compliance- is not just inevitable but necessary to eliminate the bad players. And, regardless of opinion, in USA it isn't just coming, it is already here, so I believe he is ahead of the curve and very intelligent in pre-empting rather than following.

Furthermore, altcoins -including BTC-, have failed miserably to serve an actual real life purpose so far. Adoption is minimal -and dwindling- and use case very limited (although expanding slowly). The idea behind PayCoin to line up tens of thousands of merchants IS indeed the right one towards the full adoption and usage in the real world. A real world that want to be protected against scams and don't care if it is centralized, decentralized or dances samba.

It is a major, major undertaking and he have jumped the gun on a couple of key things ... which will cost him, no question. But will the project fully materialize, survive and eventually thrive? No one knows at this stage.

I for one believe he has better chances than any other out there... but it is by no means an easy undertaking.

[DaveWave]

That's what makes life interesting, isn't it?

In any case, I try to reason quite profusely why I have an opinion and not a different one; you, on the other hand, emit your opinion solely based on the premise that you believe Garza is and will ultimately be, a scam artist forced to fly the US and lose everything he has here... just to scam people for whatever he can in the premine sale. To me that is peanuts, compared with what he will make doing the right thing, so I don't believe Garza is a particularly virtuous man, but an intelligent one. And that's why I believe he will do what is best and most profitable for himself.

But, again, that's just the reasoning for my opinion. I don't know what the reasoning for your is, so I cannot either compare or judge it on its merits if any.

Edit to add: If he gave XPY out of his will, with no obligation to do so, I believe it is a very nice gesture since they may not cost him anything buit they most definitely have current, corroborated exchangeable value.

Again, while he may have some customer that are not very happy -I have not found one, frankly- there are TONS of them quite happy to do repeated business with his company.... and with his new projects. He must have some nice kind of kool-aid at the ready...

A) Big pre-mine makes it possible to scam.
B) Broken promises time and time again, all of which are in favour of positive price.
C) Somebody has been making some big sell transactions.
D) If you give coins to people, they are unlikely to say things that would impact their value. When you say he gave them, how much did he pay for those pre=mined coins exactly?

....but, this is something that will go on for ever and ever, see the old icelandic coin is still going on, we all know it was a scam but it's still traded. Josh has taken 90% out of paycoin already, that's why there won't be any more significant development ongoing. But there will remain a long tail to the foolish who will remain faithful to the very end.


ps, I agree, Josh is very intelligent. Are you?

[Crestington]

I fully disagree: Regulation -and subsequent full compliance- is not just inevitable but necessary to eliminate the bad players. And, regardless of opinion, in USA it isn't just coming, it is already here, so I believe he is ahead of the curve and very intelligent in pre-empting rather than following.

Furthermore, altcoins -including BTC-, have failed miserably to serve an actual real life purpose so far. Adoption is minimal -and dwindling- and use case very limited (although expanding slowly). The idea behind PayCoin to line up tens of thousands of merchants IS indeed the right one towards the full adoption and usage in the real world. A real world that want to be protected against scams and don't care if it is centralized, decentralized or dances samba.

It is a major, major undertaking and he have jumped the gun on a couple of key things ... which will cost him, no question. But will the project fully materialize, survive and eventually thrive? No one knows at this stage.

I for one believe he has better chances than any other out there... but it is by no means an easy undertaking.

Interest in AltCoins are expanding, not decreasing. Adoption is not minimal at all, just check out some graphs of posting on Bitcointalk the amount of posts per day are increasing every day and at the rate it's going just Bitcointalk itself will be a massive enterprise within 2-3 years.

I do agree with the rest of what you said, really all a Cryptocurrency needs to do is to survive in the wild, maybe it will work, maybe it won't.

[EvilDave]

Always makes me wonder how two supposedly same people can have such a different view.

Hope you don't loose any money

Good luck pal

Lets take the Schrodingers Cat approach: PayCoin could turn out to be either a monster scam, or a legit project dogged by early mistakes.
We won't really know for sure until we open the box and have a look inside.

Personally I think it's the wrong method to regulate a Cryptocurrency at all because you have millions of dollars in costs for all legal, trademarking, paying employees, body guards etc.

Really, you don't need any of that at all. You can get the same end result without spending a dime and with a complete free market approach. the heart of what runs a Cryptocurrency is the protocol level itself and just a few people updating some stuff here and there can have a secure and thriving network without needing to spend millions of dollars on litigation.

You are right though, Josh needs to make good on his word otherwise he's done. I do think it's poor planning on their part to put themselves in these situations in the first place when you don't need to but hey it's definitely interesting to follow a Cryptocurrency trying to get regulated hard by the government.

Much agreement from me, I'm not a big fan of corporate/centralised cryptocurrency initiatives.

[barabbas]

I fully disagree: Regulation -and subsequent full compliance- is not just inevitable but necessary to eliminate the bad players. And, regardless of opinion, in USA it isn't just coming, it is already here, so I believe he is ahead of the curve and very intelligent in pre-empting rather than following.

Furthermore, altcoins -including BTC-, have failed miserably to serve an actual real life purpose so far. Adoption is minimal -and dwindling- and use case very limited (although expanding slowly). The idea behind PayCoin to line up tens of thousands of merchants IS indeed the right one towards the full adoption and usage in the real world. A real world that want to be protected against scams and don't care if it is centralized, decentralized or dances samba.

It is a major, major undertaking and he have jumped the gun on a couple of key things ... which will cost him, no question. But will the project fully materialize, survive and eventually thrive? No one knows at this stage.

I for one believe he has better chances than any other out there... but it is by no means an easy undertaking.

Interest in AltCoins are expanding, not decreasing. Adoption is not minimal at all, just check out some graphs of posting on Bitcointalk the amount of posts per day are increasing every day and at the rate it's going just Bitcointalk itself will be a massive enterprise within 2-3 years.

I do agree with the rest of what you said, really all a Cryptocurrency needs to do is to survive in the wild, maybe it will work, maybe it won't.

The good thing about data is that you really cannot argue with it: You can google the recent study showing the minimal increment in adoption of BTC (and none of non-BTC has ANY rate of adoption at all, lets make that perfectly clear). I believe it is -BTC- at only 5% more than it was in 2013, for all or 2014... so that's not arguable, is it?

BTCT is a place visited by the initiated only, not by any regular people at all -other than the newly interested, which are normally people without any money at all and average age 16. It in no way, shape or form reflects the levels of adoption of cryptocurrencies out there in the real world.

[barabbas]

ps, I agree, Josh is very intelligent. Are you?

That's for others to decide. Me? I only know that I don't know anything...

[Crestington]

I fully disagree: Regulation -and subsequent full compliance- is not just inevitable but necessary to eliminate the bad players. And, regardless of opinion, in USA it isn't just coming, it is already here, so I believe he is ahead of the curve and very intelligent in pre-empting rather than following.

Furthermore, altcoins -including BTC-, have failed miserably to serve an actual real life purpose so far. Adoption is minimal -and dwindling- and use case very limited (although expanding slowly). The idea behind PayCoin to line up tens of thousands of merchants IS indeed the right one towards the full adoption and usage in the real world. A real world that want to be protected against scams and don't care if it is centralized, decentralized or dances samba.

It is a major, major undertaking and he have jumped the gun on a couple of key things ... which will cost him, no question. But will the project fully materialize, survive and eventually thrive? No one knows at this stage.

I for one believe he has better chances than any other out there... but it is by no means an easy undertaking.

Interest in AltCoins are expanding, not decreasing. Adoption is not minimal at all, just check out some graphs of posting on Bitcointalk the amount of posts per day are increasing every day and at the rate it's going just Bitcointalk itself will be a massive enterprise within 2-3 years.

I do agree with the rest of what you said, really all a Cryptocurrency needs to do is to survive in the wild, maybe it will work, maybe it won't.

The good thing about data is that you really cannot argue with it: You can google the recent study showing the minimal increment in adoption of BTC (and none of non-BTC has ANY rate of adoption at all, lets make that perfectly clear). I believe it is -BTC- at only 5% more than it was in 2013, for all or 2014... so that's not arguable, is it?

BTCT is a place visited by the initiated only, not by any regular people at all -other than the newly interested, which are normally people without any money at all and average age 16. It in no way, shape or form reflects the levels of adoption of cryptocurrencies out there in the real world.

Take away the market data and look at the amount of people with general knowledge in the field and compare that to when you first started. The reason you see minimal impact of other Coins are because there are so many of them, many may never be useful or will die off but the amount of people working on Blockchain technology has grown exponentially.

[barabbas]

I fully disagree: Regulation -and subsequent full compliance- is not just inevitable but necessary to eliminate the bad players. And, regardless of opinion, in USA it isn't just coming, it is already here, so I believe he is ahead of the curve and very intelligent in pre-empting rather than following.

Furthermore, altcoins -including BTC-, have failed miserably to serve an actual real life purpose so far. Adoption is minimal -and dwindling- and use case very limited (although expanding slowly). The idea behind PayCoin to line up tens of thousands of merchants IS indeed the right one towards the full adoption and usage in the real world. A real world that want to be protected against scams and don't care if it is centralized, decentralized or dances samba.

It is a major, major undertaking and he have jumped the gun on a couple of key things ... which will cost him, no question. But will the project fully materialize, survive and eventually thrive? No one knows at this stage.

I for one believe he has better chances than any other out there... but it is by no means an easy undertaking.

Interest in AltCoins are expanding, not decreasing. Adoption is not minimal at all, just check out some graphs of posting on Bitcointalk the amount of posts per day are increasing every day and at the rate it's going just Bitcointalk itself will be a massive enterprise within 2-3 years.

I do agree with the rest of what you said, really all a Cryptocurrency needs to do is to survive in the wild, maybe it will work, maybe it won't.

The good thing about data is that you really cannot argue with it: You can google the recent study showing the minimal increment in adoption of BTC (and none of non-BTC has ANY rate of adoption at all, lets make that perfectly clear). I believe it is -BTC- at only 5% more than it was in 2013, for all or 2014... so that's not arguable, is it?

BTCT is a place visited by the initiated only, not by any regular people at all -other than the newly interested, which are normally people without any money at all and average age 16. It in no way, shape or form reflects the levels of adoption of cryptocurrencies out there in the real world.

Take away the market data and look at the amount of people with general knowledge in the field and compare that to when you first started. The reason you see minimal impact of other Coins are because there are so many of them, many may never be useful or will die off but the amount of people working on Blockchain technology has grown exponentially.

With that I agree. Including IBM (working on blockchain tech).

But that doesn't reflect, so far, in any significant growth in the rate of adoption or BTC and much less of any other altcoins.

As a matter of fact, the opposite seems to be happening, as many people scammed run away from crypto for good.

[Crestington]

I fully disagree: Regulation -and subsequent full compliance- is not just inevitable but necessary to eliminate the bad players. And, regardless of opinion, in USA it isn't just coming, it is already here, so I believe he is ahead of the curve and very intelligent in pre-empting rather than following.

Furthermore, altcoins -including BTC-, have failed miserably to serve an actual real life purpose so far. Adoption is minimal -and dwindling- and use case very limited (although expanding slowly). The idea behind PayCoin to line up tens of thousands of merchants IS indeed the right one towards the full adoption and usage in the real world. A real world that want to be protected against scams and don't care if it is centralized, decentralized or dances samba.

It is a major, major undertaking and he have jumped the gun on a couple of key things ... which will cost him, no question. But will the project fully materialize, survive and eventually thrive? No one knows at this stage.

I for one believe he has better chances than any other out there... but it is by no means an easy undertaking.

Interest in AltCoins are expanding, not decreasing. Adoption is not minimal at all, just check out some graphs of posting on Bitcointalk the amount of posts per day are increasing every day and at the rate it's going just Bitcointalk itself will be a massive enterprise within 2-3 years.

I do agree with the rest of what you said, really all a Cryptocurrency needs to do is to survive in the wild, maybe it will work, maybe it won't.

The good thing about data is that you really cannot argue with it: You can google the recent study showing the minimal increment in adoption of BTC (and none of non-BTC has ANY rate of adoption at all, lets make that perfectly clear). I believe it is -BTC- at only 5% more than it was in 2013, for all or 2014... so that's not arguable, is it?

BTCT is a place visited by the initiated only, not by any regular people at all -other than the newly interested, which are normally people without any money at all and average age 16. It in no way, shape or form reflects the levels of adoption of cryptocurrencies out there in the real world.

Take away the market data and look at the amount of people with general knowledge in the field and compare that to when you first started. The reason you see minimal impact of other Coins are because there are so many of them, many may never be useful or will die off but the amount of people working on Blockchain technology has grown exponentially.

With that I agree. Including IBM (working on blockchain tech).

But that doesn't reflect, so far, in any significant growth in the rate of adoption or BTC and much less of any other altcoins.

As a matter of fact, the opposite seems to be happening, as many people scammed run away from crypto for good.

Survival of the fittest in a free market, some will leave and some will comeback and some will stay no matter what.

I recently watched a Youtube video on Friedrich Hayek, a famous economist during the 1929 Stock Market crash and his ideas on deregulation of all currencies and that for a real market, the more open and free the market the better and I think it relates to Cryptocurrencies in general quite a bit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8bfTjp6Xw0

[inBitweTrust]

Some troubling signs --

From 51 PRIME ADDRESSES LARGE AMOUNTs OF XPY are being moved. Suspected that they are slowly being dumped at exchanges for BTC.
https://hashtalk.org/topic/30495/need-everyones-attention
https://hashtalk.org/topic/30400/crazy-anyone-notice-this

Many reports of people having trouble withdrawing from paybase which are temporarily resolved than re-appear again a day later.

Josh's house is for sale and bedrooms already empty:

SERIOUSLY BAD NEWS  

Garbozo's house is up for sale !

Getting ready to flee? Or to be spun around needs the money to pay everyone back thus showing his commitment?

Homero J Garza
Age: 30-34
Phone number
 413-xxx-xxxx
Address
14 High Meadow Cir
East Longmeadow, MA 01028-3171

http://www.newenglandmoves.com/property/details/1086872/MLS-71756401/14-High-Meadow-Cir-East-Longmeadow-MA-01028.aspx

Property Detail
14 High Meadow Cir
East Longmeadow, MA 01028

Magnificient 1990 custom Williamsburg brick colonial. Exquisite architectural details throughout! Spectacular theater and various entertainment areas are but a few of the many features
Price:$969,000