BFL returned money for preorder (ASIC minirig - 30.000$) [solved]

[sadpandatech]

So if he paid USD and it went the other way they should pay him in BTC?

No, of course not. Some of the previous posters are mistaken about how BFL received funds. BFL used a payment processor who converted the BTC for each order and deposited the sale amount in USD to BFL's bank.

I'm also fairly certain that the OP made no mention of wanting a jacked up amount in return. Just his 30k...

cheers

[psilan]

Ah I see. I wasn't aware about the conversion. Thanks.

[Barracuda]

I just want to receive 30.000$ + shipping cost i paid in BTC. Conversion $ -> BTC will be calculated by BFL. Will it be the rate on the date of refund confirmation or not it's up to them.

[||bit]

I just want to receive 30.000$ + shipping cost i paid in BTC. Conversion $ -> BTC will be calculated by BFL. Will it be the rate on the date of refund confirmation or not it's up to them.

The rate at the date of purchase is not relevant. It's not an expense report... it's a full refund:

If you paid them $30,000...then you should get $30,000 refunded.
If you paid them 5,000 BTC...then you should get 5,000 BTC refunded.
If you paid them 10,000 clam shells... then you should get 10,000 clam shells refunded.
....etc....

||bit

[rjk]

I just want to receive 30.000$ + shipping cost i paid in BTC. Conversion $ -> BTC will be calculated by BFL. Will it be the rate on the date of refund confirmation or not it's up to them.

The rate at the date of purchase is not relevant. It's not an expense report... it's a full refund:

If you paid them $30,000...then you should get $30,000 refunded.
If you paid them 5,000 BTC...then you should get 5,000 BTC refunded.
If you paid them 10,000 clam shells... then you should get 10,000 clam shells refunded.
....etc....

||bit

Sorry dude, that's not how it works in the real world.

[||bit]

I just want to receive 30.000$ + shipping cost i paid in BTC. Conversion $ -> BTC will be calculated by BFL. Will it be the rate on the date of refund confirmation or not it's up to them.

The rate at the date of purchase is not relevant. It's not an expense report... it's a full refund:

If you paid them $30,000...then you should get $30,000 refunded.
If you paid them 5,000 BTC...then you should get 5,000 BTC refunded.
If you paid them 10,000 clam shells... then you should get 10,000 clam shells refunded.
....etc....

||bit

Sorry dude, that's not how it works in the real world.

How does it work? Every time I've ever returned a product, I get back (to the penny) what I paid. Unless there are shipping costs or bank fee's.

[LATE EDIT: On second thought. I haven't done any oversea's ordering that I can recall. So, I'm not as familiiar with the nuances of it, and don't wnat to think about it anymore right now.
I've been up all night... my brain feels like a soup sandwich.]

||bit

[MXRider]

BFL doesn't have bitcoins and that's why they will refund 30k$. That happens to be exactly what he paid.

[rjk]

I just want to receive 30.000$ + shipping cost i paid in BTC. Conversion $ -> BTC will be calculated by BFL. Will it be the rate on the date of refund confirmation or not it's up to them.

The rate at the date of purchase is not relevant. It's not an expense report... it's a full refund:

If you paid them $30,000...then you should get $30,000 refunded.
If you paid them 5,000 BTC...then you should get 5,000 BTC refunded.
If you paid them 10,000 clam shells... then you should get 10,000 clam shells refunded.
....etc....

||bit

Sorry dude, that's not how it works in the real world.

How does it work? Every time I've ever returned a product, I get back (to the penny) what I paid. Unless there are shipping costs or bank fee's.

||bit

Yes, but how often have you been dealing with multiple currencies in the same way? If I used my USD PayPal to pay someone in GBP for something, and then got it refunded, PayPal isn't going to refund the exact USD amount, especially if the exchange rate has changed between the purchase date and the refund date. Ignoring fees of course.

[ice_chill]

I just want to receive 30.000$ + shipping cost i paid in BTC. Conversion $ -> BTC will be calculated by BFL. Will it be the rate on the date of refund confirmation or not it's up to them.

The rate at the date of purchase is not relevant. It's not an expense report... it's a full refund:

If you paid them $30,000...then you should get $30,000 refunded.
If you paid them 5,000 BTC...then you should get 5,000 BTC refunded.
If you paid them 10,000 clam shells... then you should get 10,000 clam shells refunded.
....etc....

||bit

Sorry dude, that's not how it works in the real world.

How does it work? Every time I've ever returned a product, I get back (to the penny) what I paid. Unless there are shipping costs or bank fee's.

||bit

Yes, but how often have you been dealing with multiple currencies in the same way? If I used my USD PayPal to pay someone in GBP for something, and then got it refunded, PayPal isn't going to refund the exact USD amount, especially if the exchange rate has changed between the purchase date and the refund date. Ignoring fees of course.

I agree, BFL should not stand to lose on the BTC rise.

[pieppiep]

If I buy something with paypal for $20, I pay paypal with 16 euro.
If I cancel it, the company will pay me $20 on my paypal.
If the value of the euro dropped a little, I get 15 euro on my paypal account.
That's how it works.

If you pay via bitpay with BTC, the company doesn't see BTC just like it doesn't see my euro.
If bitpay keeps 10% (probably less, I don't know their terms) of the transaction value and you pay and get a refund via bitpay, you only have 81% of your initial payment.
If the value of a currency rises or lowers it can be different.

I don't see why BFL should compensate for that.

[||bit]

I just want to receive 30.000$ + shipping cost i paid in BTC. Conversion $ -> BTC will be calculated by BFL. Will it be the rate on the date of refund confirmation or not it's up to them.

The rate at the date of purchase is not relevant. It's not an expense report... it's a full refund:

If you paid them $30,000...then you should get $30,000 refunded.
If you paid them 5,000 BTC...then you should get 5,000 BTC refunded.
If you paid them 10,000 clam shells... then you should get 10,000 clam shells refunded.
....etc....

||bit

Sorry dude, that's not how it works in the real world.

How does it work? Every time I've ever returned a product, I get back (to the penny) what I paid. Unless there are shipping costs or bank fee's.

||bit

Yes, but how often have you been dealing with multiple currencies in the same way? If I used my USD PayPal to pay someone in GBP for something, and then got it refunded, PayPal isn't going to refund the exact USD amount, especially if the exchange rate has changed between the purchase date and the refund date. Ignoring fees of course.

Yeah, I kinda thought something like that already and amended my comment. However, we are not talking PayPal (yet). BFL is taking wired funds and BTC. And I doubt they already exchanged all the preorder BTC for local currency...or whatever currency they are going to need to buy materials (or tickets to the Cayman Islands?).

[crazyates]

Yeah, I kinda thought something like that already and amended my comment. However, we are not talking PayPal (yet). BFL is taking wired funds and BTC. And I doubt they already exchanged all the preorder BTC for local currency...or whatever currency they are going to need to buy materials (or tickets to the Cayman Islands?).

Actually they do. When you buy thru Bitpay, Bitpay takes the BTC and gives BFL USD. BFL never actually touches the BTC.

[||bit]

Yeah, I kinda thought something like that already and amended my comment. However, we are not talking PayPal (yet). BFL is taking wired funds and BTC. And I doubt they already exchanged all the preorder BTC for local currency...or whatever currency they are going to need to buy materials (or tickets to the Cayman Islands?).

Actually they do. When you buy thru Bitpay, Bitpay takes the BTC and gives BFL USD. BFL never actually touches the BTC.

Then that settles any questions about it with me. Bit-pay owes him 5000BTC!  just kidding
Makes sense then to convert it to a more current rate.

||bit

[Ente]

Well, the problem is not if BFL should refund BTC or USD.
They don't refund anything, although they already promised. Barracuda wants his money back, that simple. It is not about profit or risen exchange rates, he simply wants his money back.

Ente

[sadpandatech]

Well, the problem is not if BFL should refund BTC or USD.
They don't refund anything, although they already promised. Barracuda wants his money back, that simple. It is not about profit or risen exchange rates, he simply wants his money back.

Ente

*noggles* That is the issue at hand. Being that BFL publicy stated here they would refund him it will likely happen. How long it will take them is anyones guess though.

[ice_chill]

$30k is also quite big, not the same as refunding $1k

[opentoe]

$30k is also quite big, not the same as refunding $1k

Why not?

[Barracuda]

Well, the problem is not if BFL should refund BTC or USD.
They don't refund anything, although they already promised. Barracuda wants his money back, that simple. It is not about profit or risen exchange rates, he simply wants his money back.

Ente

Exactly! Thanks for this brilliant post!

[ice_chill]

$30k is also quite big, not the same as refunding $1k

Why not?

It's to do with TAX, moving around large sums like that might look suspicious to the tax inspector. They need to figure out the right way to do it.

[Barracuda]

And what to do now? BFL doesn't return money already 10 days (from my enquiry) ... Smells like a fraud...