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Author Topic: Scam Warning: WoodCollector  (Read 28690 times)
nubbins
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January 20, 2015, 12:04:54 PM
Last edit: January 25, 2015, 08:10:58 AM by nubbins
 #1

UPDATE 1: WoodCollector creates a hate thread in order to intimidate me into silence. He will post his evidence "soon": https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=931109.0

UPDATE 2: A carver with 40 years of experience calls bullshit: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=930649.msg10223017#msg10223017

UPDATE 3: Several pieces are found to be using stolen artwork: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=930649.msg10226824#msg10226824

UPDATE 4: IMPORTANT: I have received PMs indicating that WoodCollector is contacting his customers privately, and attempting to extort more money out of them by claiming that he will provide them with video proof once they pay their outstanding balance. I urge any customers who have not paid in full to not give this scammer any more of your money as he runs out the door.

UPDATE 5: Thread where WoodCollector attempts to recruit paid shills to push his phony wares: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=915488.0

UPDATE 6: Thread where our Master Carver is tired of making $10 million a year, and is interested in a much more lucrative career operating a dark market website selling marijuana paraphernalia: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=884265.msg9753499#msg9753499.

UPDATE 7: More stolen artwork: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=930649.msg10235300#msg10235300

UPDATE 8: WoodCollector resorts to using homophobic slurs to silence his detractors: http://i.imgur.com/DWQ8trs.png

UPDATE 9: Several of WoodCarver's customers have PMed me stating that they realize they were ripped off for hundreds/thousands of dollars, but are currently too afraid to come forward for fear their personal information will be released.

UPDATE 10: A South African resident calls bullshit on everything WC has stated about his woods, with links to back it up. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=864472.msg10237658#msg10237658

UPDATE 11: WoodCollector locks both of his hate threads against me, after posting screenshots of him uploading a proof video. The screenshots turn out to be bogus: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=930649.msg10239877#msg10239877

UPDATE 12: WoodCollector can't figure out how to engrave straight lines onto wood with his laser engraver on November 29, 2014: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=877143.0

FINAL UPDATE: WoodCollector finally shares his video proof. It is a video of WoodCollector using a Dremel rotary tool to damage a piece of wood that he has laser engraved a design into. Note that the wood is already completely engraved when the piece is first shown! https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=935115.0

WoodCollector's pieces truly are beautiful, but I believe he's SERIOUSLY misrepresenting himself as being a "master carver" and that his pieces are "carved by hand". It's too bad, because if he was honest about his production methods, people would still buy his products. They'd just know what they were paying for.

Reasons why I think WoodCollector is full of shit:

He claims to be a master wood carver, showing off insanely detailed "hand-carved" pieces:




But all of his "carvings" are impossibly perfect -- just as perfect as a laser etching tool.

Okay, well, maybe he's just that good at carving. After all, he's a master right?

But if he's so good at carving, why can't he cut shapes? Why doesn't he care that his BTC logo shapes are terribly deformed?

Look at the top two legs, as well as the inside cut-outs:


Here's another bad cut:


If he's so good at carving, why do all of his carvings have only two levels of height, as a laser cutter would produce, instead of varying height like hand tools would produce?

Check out the obvious difference in quality between the cutting of the shape and the engraving:


Here's an outlined version. Notice how the verticals do not line up, and are not even the same width.


He obviously has a laser cutter, as evidenced by these perfectly-rendered logos:





Laser cutters also etch wood to a consistent depth, like WC's pieces, whereas a hand-carved relief piece would have a varying height in the flat part.

He claims to be a MASTER CARVER making $10 million a year, but spends 130+ hours working at $18/hr because he "just loves bitcoin so much".

His normal rate is $450-800/hr.
My normal rate averages about $450 to $800 an hour depending on the difficulty of the wood i am working with.

His normal rate is $3,000/hr.
you are going to un-ass $30,000 and get about 10 - 20 hours worth of carving out of me

Yes, a MASTER CARVER who normally earns $450 (or is it $800 (or is it $3,000)) per hour is willing to make Butterfly Labs dildos for $18/hr.

Because he loves bitcoin so much, he makes BITCOIN THEMED DILDOS.

For 0.6% of his regular wage.

Yes, a MASTER CARVER who makes three thousand dollars FOR ONE HOUR OF WORK needs to take out a thousand-dollar loan to buy a new lathe:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=871938.msg10191336#msg10191336

WoodCollector, I hereby CHARGE YOU with MISREPRESENTATION of the first degree, and REQUEST the following in order to disprove my theory:

-pictures of your carving tools
-video of you carving a coin with your tools
-name of the master artisan you studied under, and in which country he is located

My apologies to anyone who purchased one of WoodCollector's pieces -- hopefully you bought it because you like it, not because it was "carved by hand" by a "master".

FINAL STATUS: WoodCollector has proven, without a doubt, his artistic skill.

No longer buying/selling Casascius coins. Beware scammers.
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January 20, 2015, 12:10:42 PM
 #2

Why question something that is good?  Embarrassed

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January 20, 2015, 12:11:01 PM
 #3

Interesting challenge, looking forward to the response  Shocked

Why question something that is good?  Embarrassed

Because some people have paid up to $14,000 for the end results.

Knew nothing about wood laser engraving but have to admit the end results look very similar -






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January 20, 2015, 12:18:49 PM
 #4

Why question something that is good?  Embarrassed

Because some people have paid up to $14,000 for the end results.

This. And because I am an actual artisan, and it upsets me to see people claiming to be artisans -- and charging artisan prices -- when they're amateurs producing sub-par work.

He's a great *artist* and *designer*, sure... as long as those designs are his. That's where his skill ends.

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January 20, 2015, 12:21:10 PM
 #5

you would think the inside would be etched also and not left looking so scruffy

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January 20, 2015, 12:30:12 PM
 #6

you would think the inside would be etched also and not left looking so scruffy

I don't think you can etch the inside edges with a laser, so that's probably why they're not etched.

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January 20, 2015, 12:57:13 PM
 #7

you would think the inside would be etched also and not left looking so scruffy

I don't think you can etch the inside edges with a laser, so that's probably why they're not etched.

that's actually what i was meaning, by hand you could get in there and have them looking much nicer. shame to see...
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January 20, 2015, 12:58:23 PM
 #8

Smoking gun, agreed.
A real carver would have at least filed down those corners.



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January 20, 2015, 01:01:08 PM
 #9

Things worth considering at this point:

Some forum members have paid well over ten thousand dollars for some of these pieces. Given that they purchased the pieces under the impression that they were hand-carved, this appears to be a clear-cut case of fraud.

As a non-American, I'm not quite sure, but does this count as a "felony"? (We don't classify crimes this way in Canada)

I wonder does WC have import permits for the exotic woods he uses?

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January 20, 2015, 01:04:20 PM
 #10

looking at this one closely for a couple of minutes, the design of the lions is just to damn symmetrical

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January 20, 2015, 01:10:43 PM
 #11

Symmetry is fine, I'd expect a carver to draw the outline with a pencil before beginning.

How about these impossibly fine details... I wonder what sort of chisels you'd use for those tiny serifs?!


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January 20, 2015, 01:40:40 PM
 #12

One last illustrative photo before we wait for WC's response (he's online now).


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January 20, 2015, 01:43:44 PM
 #13

One last illustrative photo before we wait for WC's response (he's online now).

Ouch Roll Eyes

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January 20, 2015, 01:56:31 PM
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How many times you look at it. It was clearly carve by a 40 to 60 watts co2 laser. If he have a more powerful laser he could have cut the edge using the laser not by a saw.
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January 20, 2015, 02:00:45 PM
 #15

Aw, Did we find another Buttcoiner?

Sure, i'll Humor you for a few minutes, then i am moving on with my day until you try and come up with some other reason why i am a scammer? is it, or a fraud?

Here we go.....



^This tool is called a gouge, it is used for making fingernail cuts like this if you need an example



^ This is another Gouge, this one is used for making deeper cuts and clearing out larger amounts of wood.



^This tool is called a Skew, i am sure you can use google to find out what it does.



^This is a large gouge



^This is a large Skew



^ This is a scraper. Can you guess what it does?



^This is a "set" of tools, Set means multiple tools belonging together. I can link the dictionary definition if you would like.



^ This is a carvers rotary tool, any idea what that does?



^ This is an engraving burr, that is how the "tiny serifs" are made  Kiss



^ These are wood SHAVINGS, notice they are larger than sawdust, this is what happens when you put a skew to a piece of wood and apply pressure



^ This is a wood lathe, this is how i take square things and make them round.

Now, what else.......


Oh yeah,
Smoking gun, agreed.
A real carver would have at least filed down those corners.

Wait i thought i did these on a machine? doesnt that mean the corners would be absolutely perfect? Or could it be that i INTENTIONALLY left them not true round? Might make it harder to replicate that way you think? Wait dumb question, you hypothesize not think.

looking at this one closely for a couple of minutes, the design of the lions is just to damn symmetrical

Awww, thanks, one minute your telling me i am a fraud, then your telling me that its because my work has symmetry? Seems your reaching quite a bit here, be careful you might fall off that conspiracy ledge.

Why question something that is good?  Embarrassed

Because some people have paid up to $14,000 for the end results.

This. And because I am an actual artisan, and it upsets me to see people claiming to be artisans -- and charging artisan prices -- when they're amateurs producing sub-par work.

He's a great *artist* and *designer*, sure... as long as those designs are his. That's where his skill ends.

You are claiming to be an artisin silkscreener? never new there was such a thing. In that case, i am also an ARTISAN dishwasher, well when my wife is mad anyways. Oh and an Artisan snow shoveler as i have decades of experience with that too. I mean, as long as we are making up names for professions.

What else before i go get some work done and leave you to conspire to yourself.

Oh yeah the loan. I bought $80k in new tools and machines last year, my wife was a little pissy when i said i was going to buy a new lathe so i could turn a few larger objects for the bitcoin community, I have more tools than i have room as is. She said that if i wanted a new lathe i could sell enough pieces to the community to buy it or wait until after january so we could write it off on the 2015 taxes. You missed the part where it was a $10,000 lathe and 2BTC was barley $1k at the time, It was duca's way of helping out.

Anyways, i have work to do, i may swing in later to play this dumb game with you some more

ROFLMFAO - The bullshit faggot dictators (A.K.A The Mods) banned this account. May you all rot in cryptocurrency hell.
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January 20, 2015, 02:09:07 PM
 #16

could it be that i INTENTIONALLY left them not true round?



You did this shit job on PURPOSE?

You are claiming to be an artisin silkscreener? never new there was such a thing.

Well, I guess you know now. I suppose this will be the first of several personal attacks.

I bought $80k in new tools and machines last year, my wife was a little pissy when i said i was going to buy a new lathe

You make $10 million a year and your wife is pissed because you wanted to spend $10k on tools for your profession? Sounds legit.

Anyways, i have work to do, i may swing in later to play this dumb game with you some more

Waiting with bated breath. Hopefully next time you'll show us pictures of a work in process, not some brand-new tools laying around in a shop and an image of an "in-progress" piece so dark you can't tell if there's anything carved into it.

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January 20, 2015, 02:17:04 PM
 #17

i apologies, i know nothing about wood carving, be that by hand or machine. I just thought you would finish up the insides, it looks quite scruffy and unfinished, which i thought was a shame to see. The symmetry comment is again down to my complete lack of knowledge of wood carving, it's so good i could see it being machine done, kudos to you indeed if done by hand.
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January 20, 2015, 02:17:33 PM
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could it be that i INTENTIONALLY left them not true round?



You did this shit job on PURPOSE?

You are claiming to be an artisin silkscreener? never new there was such a thing.

Well, I guess you know now. I suppose this will be the first of several personal attacks.

I bought $80k in new tools and machines last year, my wife was a little pissy when i said i was going to buy a new lathe

You make $10 million a year and your wife is pissed because you wanted to spend $10k on tools for your profession? Sounds legit.

Anyways, i have work to do, i may swing in later to play this dumb game with you some more

Waiting with bated breath. Hopefully next time you'll show us pictures of a work in process, not some brand-new tools laying around in a shop and an image of an "in-progress" piece so dark you can't tell if there's anything carved into it.

Nubbins, there is no personal attack, well, you attacking me without cause beyond your wild accusations. I really dont have time for you, i have met people like you before, i post pictures, "there too dark" i'll go make a video, then it will be the accusations that its photoshoped or something, i'll go do this, then you'll have that to say. I'm not a fool by any means, every great man has a few detractors, Like i have said before.

"Those who can, DO, and make good money for it, Those who cant, Start scam accusation threads so they feel important too."

When one of my clients, someone who is paying me, wants something, i will give them the proof the request. You, well, your just another detractor who is mad because you cannot do it yourself.


I am not wasting any more of my time on this, when one of my clients wants something, a picture or video or something, message me. Continuing to argue with this guy is an exercise in futility.

ROFLMFAO - The bullshit faggot dictators (A.K.A The Mods) banned this account. May you all rot in cryptocurrency hell.
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January 20, 2015, 02:20:06 PM
 #19

could it be that i INTENTIONALLY left them not true round?



You did this shit job on PURPOSE?

You are claiming to be an artisin silkscreener? never new there was such a thing.

Well, I guess you know now. I suppose this will be the first of several personal attacks.

I bought $80k in new tools and machines last year, my wife was a little pissy when i said i was going to buy a new lathe

You make $10 million a year and your wife is pissed because you wanted to spend $10k on tools for your profession? Sounds legit.

Anyways, i have work to do, i may swing in later to play this dumb game with you some more

Waiting with bated breath. Hopefully next time you'll show us pictures of a work in process, not some brand-new tools laying around in a shop and an image of an "in-progress" piece so dark you can't tell if there's anything carved into it.

Nubbins, there is no personal attack, well, you attacking me without cause beyond your wild accusations. I really dont have time for you, i have met people like you before, i post pictures, "there too dark" i'll go make a video, then it will be the accusations that its photoshoped or something, i'll go do this, then you'll have that to say. I'm not a fool by any means, every great man has a few detractors, Like i have said before.

"Those who can, DO, and make good money for it, Those who cant, Start scam accusation threads so they feel important too."

When one of my clients, someone who is paying me, wants something, i will give them the proof the request. You, well, your just another detractor who is mad because you cannot do it yourself.


I am not wasting any more of my time on this, when one of my clients wants something, a picture or video or something, message me. Continuing to argue with this guy is an exercise in futility.

wow i really like to see a video of your work, but im no client of yours Smiley , hope this scam warning got settle down soon
WoodCollector
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January 20, 2015, 02:20:12 PM
 #20

i apologies, i know nothing about wood carving, be that by hand or machine. I just thought you would finish up the insides, it looks quite scruffy and unfinished, which i thought was a shame to see. The symmetry comment is again down to my complete lack of knowledge of wood carving, it's so good i could see it being machine done, kudos to you indeed if done by hand.

No worries elasticband, i didnt take it personal. i know how quick the herd mentality starts and gets out of hand around here, by the end of the day i'll probably have a -200 trust rating and have heard every wild accusation there is to be hear.

"scruffy and unfinished" was kind of the look that i was going for. It's "growing"

ROFLMFAO - The bullshit faggot dictators (A.K.A The Mods) banned this account. May you all rot in cryptocurrency hell.
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