Scam Warning: WoodCollector

[nubbins]

In fact, I started this scam accusation thread because I suspected you were scamming people. It's everyone's duty to out scams when they smell them. You're smoking your socks if you think this is because of jealousy.

Look again at the last picture I posted:


$50 piece of wood, cut like shit on a jigsaw, laser engraved. Sold to a rube for $1,200 because he thought it was carved by hand.

This issue is settled for me. Others may wish to post evidence for either side if they so choose.

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[michaeladair]

In fact, I started this scam accusation thread because I suspected you were scamming people. It's everyone's duty to out scams when they smell them. You're smoking your socks if you think this is because of jealousy.

Look again at the last picture I posted:


$50 piece of wood, cut like shit on a jigsaw, laser engraved. Sold to a rube for $1,200 because he thought it was carved by hand.

This issue is settled for me. Others may wish to post evidence for either side if they so choose.

Isn't it the right of the buyer (rube) to give the scam accusation and/or negative trust rather than a bystander? I think it is, so I believe you should message rube and see if he would like to file negative trust instead of you.

[searle421]

Interesting challenge, looking forward to the response  

Why question something that is good?  

Because some people have paid up to $14,000 for the end results.

Knew nothing about wood laser engraving but have to admit the end results look very similar -

This is clearly done by a laser. I work on a furniture company for more than 10 years. And most of this carving is done by a laser it cannot be created using his tools because of the very fine details. The tools is used mainly for retouching after it was engrave by a laser. Notice the burnt marks on the lower left side and the zigzag like pattern on the edges, the zigzag like pattern on the edges occurs when the laser engraves very fast and the belt is not properly tighten or the machine is not properly cleaned.

[qwk]

Oh yeah,

Smoking gun, agreed.
A real carver would have at least filed down those corners.

Wait i thought i did these on a machine? doesnt that mean the corners would be absolutely perfect? Or could it be that i INTENTIONALLY left them not true round? Might make it harder to replicate that way you think? Wait dumb question, you hypothesize not think.

Okay, I really want to understand this.
You start work on a piece of wood.
You know that you'll probably be sitting there for hours carving, chiseling, whatever the surface.
But you feel like sparing the 5 minutes it would take to create an at least acceptably smooth blank?

Seriously, I'd be more than happy to be wrong here, because I really like some of your work, but so far, I'm not convinced to the least.

[nubbins]

Isn't it the right of the buyer (rube) to give the scam accusation and/or negative trust rather than a bystander? I think it is, so I believe you should message rube and see if he would like to file negative trust instead of you.

The history of Bitcoin is one of endless scams, misrepresentations, frauds, fly-by-night businesses, and all-around shadiness. It is the duty of us all to share our suspicions when they arise.

FWIW, "a rube" is a type of person. There is nobody named "rube" here (at least, I hope not).

Please note how WC completely avoided commenting on the embarrassingly poor cut job he did on that photo I shared. Or maybe it's actually a perfect BTC and I'm just seeing it as a piece of shit because I'm jealous, and I wish I had a laser too?

I really like some of your work

I like it too. Some of the rounds in particular look amazing.

[michaeladair]

Isn't it the right of the buyer (rube) to give the scam accusation and/or negative trust rather than a bystander? I think it is, so I believe you should message rube and see if he would like to file negative trust instead of you.

The history of Bitcoin is one of endless scams, misrepresentations, frauds, fly-by-night businesses, and all-around shadiness. It is the duty of us all to share our suspicions when they arise.

FWIW, "a rube" is a type of person. There is nobody named "rube" here (at least, I hope not).

Please note how WC completely avoided commenting on the embarrassingly poor cut job he did on that photo I shared. Or maybe it's actually a perfect BTC and I'm just seeing it as a piece of shit because I'm jealous, and I wish I had a laser too?

I really like some of your work

I like it too. Some of the rounds in particular look amazing.

I would like to see a video of WoodCollector making a piece of his art... I would like you guys to believe that he is doing what he says he does.

FYI: I would like to have a laser...

[qwk]

I would like to see a video of WoodCollector making a piece of his art... I would like you guys to believe that he is doing what he says he does.

Absolutely, a short video showing him create a tiny example of his work would make me remove my negative trust rating for him and even give him a positive one.

FYI: I would like to have a laser...

Me too

And while we're dreaming: I'd like to have a robot

[nubbins]

I would like to see a video of WoodCollector making a piece of his art... I would like you guys to believe that he is doing what he says he does.

Absolutely, a short video showing him create a tiny example of his work would make me remove my negative trust rating for him and even give him a positive one.

FYI: I would like to have a laser...

Me too

And while we're dreaming: I'd like to have a robot

If he shows a video of him carving fine-serif text like this, with hand tools, start to finish, I'll eat my hat. Heck, I'll commission a piece myself.

[spazzdla]

Is this thread serious.....

When I make my chainmaille jewellery is it not hand made because I didn't mine, smelt and coil the metal myself....

[shipitbuddy]

I will be taking bets , who says that he will upload the video and who say's he wont.

Nah for serious I'm looking foward to see if this is really hand made something I doubt.

[nubbins]

Is this thread serious.....

When I make my chainmaille jewellery is it not hand made because I didn't mine, smelt and coil the metal myself....

Imperfect analogy. Do you link the maille by hand, or do you just load the design into a machine that links it for you?

Seriously, look at the white lines. Did he even draw the outline with a pencil before he started cutting, or did he freehand the whole thing?



If I cut a piece of wood that poorly, my dignity and self-respect would prevent me from showing it to people.

[spazzdla]

I will be taking bets , who says that he will upload the video and who say's he wont.

Nah for serious I'm looking foward to see if this is really hand made something I doubt.

What is "hand made".  If he carves out everything and uses a machine for the fine details is it not hand made then?  If a machine cuts out the rough shape and he does the rest is it not hand made then?

[qwk]

When I make my chainmaille jewellery is it not hand made because I didn't mine, smelt and coil the metal myself....

Nobody expects him to go out into the woods and cut down trees.
But hand-carved is definitely not the same as "I used my hands to fire up the laser".

[spazzdla]

When I make my chainmaille jewellery is it not hand made because I didn't mine, smelt and coil the metal myself....

Nobody expects him to go out into the woods and cut down trees.
But hand-carved is definitely not the same as "I used my hands to fire up the laser".

Do you expect me to coil the metal by hand?  Is it no longer hand made because I used a drill to coil the metal?

What if I use a machine to open half the rings and close the other half is it not hand made now?

[qwk]

If he carves out everything and uses a machine for the fine details is it not hand made then?

Hand-made, partially. Hand-carved, no.

If a machine cuts out the rough shape and he does the rest is it not hand made then?

Hand-made, partially. Hand-carved, yes.
It's that easy, you do the carving part by hand, it's hand-carved. Duh!

[nubbins]

I will be taking bets , who says that he will upload the video and who say's he wont.

Nah for serious I'm looking foward to see if this is really hand made something I doubt.

What is "hand made".  If he carves out everything and uses a machine for the fine details is it not hand made then?  If a machine cuts out the rough shape and he does the rest is it not hand made then?

The problem is that he has gone out of his way to hide his use of a machine, while at the same time letting people think it's done completely by hand.

He exclusively uses the word "carve" to describe his process, as you can see here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=868931.0;all

Here's a buyer saying "The hand-carved detail is astonishing": https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=868954.msg9777724#msg9777724

WC's response? "Thanks". Not "Oh, it was actually done with a laser, not carved."

The point is NOT how he makes the pieces, but how he represents them as being made.

If he was selling "beautiful hand-lacquered and polished laser-cut wooden bitcoin pieces", this thread would not exist.

[spazzdla]

If he carves out everything and uses a machine for the fine details is it not hand made then?

Hand-made, partially. Hand-carved, no.

If a machine cuts out the rough shape and he does the rest is it not hand made then?

Hand-made, partially. Hand-carved, yes.
It's that easy, you do the carving part by hand, it's hand-carved. Duh!

Alright lets say it's hand made and mostly carved + machine for the fine details.  He has always delivered and great product now we are going to attack his reputation because he is exaggerating..  Sounds kind of like a bored soccer mom looking for someone to harass... :S

Technically he is not lying.. he did carve some by hand.  Some of it was made by hand thus it was hand made..

[qwk]

WC's response? "Thanks". Not "Oh, it was actually done with a laser, not carved."
The point is NOT how he makes the pieces, but how he represents them as being made.
If he was selling "beautiful hand-lacquered and polished laser-cut wooden bitcoin pieces", this thread would not exist.

This sums it up nicely.

If he finds people who are willing to pay serious money for his laser-craft-work, no issue.
If he finds people who pay for hand-carved but receive laser-craft, it's scam.

[nubbins]

The hand-carved detail is "astonishing", but not as astonishing as the massive discrepancy in width between the two verticals.



Amazing that someone who can carve as well as a laser cutter is unable to use a saw properly.

[Quickseller]

I would say that what he is doing is dishonest if he is lying about how he produces his art. I am fairly confident that his art would probably not be sold for as much or would sell as frequently.

I do however think there would still be a market for his work if he had previously disclosed how he makes his art. I have somewhat thought about buying a piece from him.

Does anyone have any kind of estimate as to the price difference between what he would generally be able to sell his work for if these facts were previously disclosed verses what he actually sold for?