Videos of WoodCollector Hand Carving: Care of MOB

[jonald_fyookball]

For the third time, why is it that the burden of proof is upon WoodCollector and NOT upon Nubbins to provide proof of his accusations?

First of all, there has been plenty of evidence against woodcollector
such as the previous posts in the forum asking for help with lasers,
the line markings that people have pointed out, the dishonesty about
vectors and African woods, etc.

Second, he could have chose to ignore the accusations and said "whatever, prove it" but he did not.
He chose to take on the burden of proof when he made the video, attempting to prove
his skill at hand carving.
 

[elasticband]

http://downfall.jfedor.org/

have at it.   I am getting ready for work or I would do it....will be plowing snow..

well i got bored and it's probably shit, but here i did like 1min 30secs

http://captiongenerator.com/29786/woodcollector-hitler

[jonald_fyookball]

fuNNy!!  you shoulda kept going, that was gettin hilarious

[smoothie]

Actually no. That is experience with woodworking tools AS WELL as experience with laser engravers. I know for a fact he  have accomplished that exact effect with a hand guided router. You, however deny this possibility and claim it could ONLY have been created by a laser engraver or CNC. THAT is called speculation. The fact that you continue to insinuate he is just doing all of this as an elaborate ploy to deceive everyone here after he released the video of his HAND CARVING demonstrates very clearly your lack of a grasp on reality...

So first you say he applied those router lines by hand then you say he "could".

LOL so are you back pedaling now? Sure sounded like you KNEW he did it now you are saying he could have done it by that means.

 

Yes we should all listen to TECSHARE and heed his advice/insights as ultimate truth.  

Nope, not backpedaling at all, but of course that doesn't matter to you if you can inject some semantic games into this to distract from the lack of evidence against him. As I stated above, I said this to elucidate the fact that the only explanation for his work is not just laser, or CNC, but is easily achieved using a hand guided router. Again, why isn't the burden of proof upon Nubbins to present actual proof? Why is the burden of proof upon WC just because Nubbins strung together a bunch of speculation followed by a mob?

It isn't semantics. You obviously changed your word usage from "he applied..." to "he could have accomplished that exact effect...". Two different contexts that are worlds apart.

You changed the context and that shows your lack of being neutral and calling things as you see it (from the video that is). You could not have known what he did 100% unless he said so and showed it on the video, which he did not. And you  have the gall to say we are speculating when you do such?

 

It's so funny that my asking questions about how he got the stencil on before he started to "carve" the wood was never answered by WC himself and yet you claimed to know exactly how he did it without confirming it with him first.

LOL such fail around here.

Make your way over to cryptocrypt.org and sign up for a membership (if you can).

He applied those router lines BY HAND. Not by laser, Not by CNC, but with a HAND ROUTER.

  Sounds like speculation rather than fact.

Shill or moron. Probably not a good idea to trust either way. Negative feedback left.

Actually no. That is experience with woodworking tools AS WELL as experience with laser engravers. I know for a fact he could have accomplished that exact effect with a hand guided router. You, however deny this possibility and claim it could ONLY have been created by a laser engraver or CNC. THAT is called speculation. The fact that you continue to insinuate he is just doing all of this as an elaborate ploy to deceive everyone here after he released the video of his HAND CARVING demonstrates very clearly your lack of a grasp on reality.

By the way Nubbins, if you think abusing your position on the default trust in an attempt to intimidate myself and others into silence will work, you are SORELY mistaken. You just turned what was just a discussion, into a personal vendetta with me now by abusing the trust system in an attempt to punish me for disagreeing with you in public. You have also done the same to MANY other users over this incident for doing nothing more than disagreeing with you and your mob action, as well as convinced others to do the same. You are going to need to use a telescope to see the sky from the depth of the hole you are digging for yourself.

[Hellot]

So tell me...this (the "B", "I", "N", and the outer two circles?) is due to carbon paper?

Oh wow!  You can even see where he left the laser in place on the B and it burned more than he wanted to!  How fucking sloppy can you be??

[nubbins]

http://downfall.jfedor.org/

have at it.   I am getting ready for work or I would do it....will be plowing snow..

well i got bored and it's probably shit, but here i did like 1min 30secs

http://captiongenerator.com/29786/woodcollector-hitler

[SodaWarz]

Oh wow!  You can even see where he left the laser in place on the B and it burned more than he wanted to!  How fucking sloppy can you be??

Hellot could you please not remove every ounce of doubt anyone ever had that you were an idiot.

Laser machine cutters are CNC controlled

you cant "leave the laser in place too long and have it burn more than you want to" the damn things are automated.

Could you guys be reaching any further with your wild accusations and conspiracy theory's to try and make people believe that half the crap you have said is anything close to proof.

[smoothie]

Oh wow!  You can even see where he left the laser in place on the B and it burned more than he wanted to!  How fucking sloppy can you be??

Hellot could you please not remove every ounce of doubt anyone ever had that you were an idiot.

Laser machine cutters are CNC controlled

you cant "leave the laser in place too long and have it burn more than you want to" the damn things are automated.

Could you guys be reaching any further with your wild accusations and conspiracy theory's to try and make people believe that half the crap you have said is anything close to proof.

More name calling etc... Lol

[Hellot]

Oh wow!  You can even see where he left the laser in place on the B and it burned more than he wanted to!  How fucking sloppy can you be??

Hellot could you please not remove every ounce of doubt anyone ever had that you were an idiot.

Laser machine cutters are CNC controlled

you cant "leave the laser in place too long and have it burn more than you want to" the damn things are automated.

Could you guys be reaching any further with your wild accusations and conspiracy theory's to try and make people believe that half the crap you have said is anything close to proof.

Maybe it's a knot in the wood, I'll admit that, but I'll be damned if I don't see all of the lettering and outer circle already etched into the wood.  At this point, it's clear to me we're just being trolled.
 
Also, you come off a lot like WC.

[TECSHARE]

For the third time, why is it that the burden of proof is upon WoodCollector and NOT upon Nubbins to provide proof of his accusations?

First of all, there has been plenty of evidence against woodcollector
such as the previous posts in the forum asking for help with lasers,
the line markings that people have pointed out, the dishonesty about
vectors and African woods, etc.

Second, he could have chose to ignore the accusations and said "whatever, prove it" but he did not.
He chose to take on the burden of proof when he made the video, attempting to prove
his skill at hand carving.
 

Actually, no, him asking about a laser engraver is not proof he owns one or used one for his pieces. Calling speculation evidence doesn't magically turn it into proof. Additionally if he was it would be fairly idiotic to ask about it on the forum he is supposedly trying to rip off wouldn't it. This is just more crafting of a bullshit narrative. Grasping at straws.

This is SPECULATION NOT PROOF

All the bullshit about vectors and supposed experts in African woods is just more bullshit drummed up once the laser theory was dismissed.

He didn't just dismiss the accusation because he could even reply A MOB WAS ATTACKING HIM and his reputation. Don't pretend like he had any opportunity to justly defend himself, because everyone here judged him guilty before he could even reply. ALL 100% BASED ON SPECULATION. If you had actual proof you would have posted it by now, but you don't.

Oh wow!  You can even see where he left the laser in place on the B and it burned more than he wanted to!  How fucking sloppy can you be??

Hellot could you please not remove every ounce of doubt anyone ever had that you were an idiot.

Laser machine cutters are CNC controlled

you cant "leave the laser in place too long and have it burn more than you want to" the damn things are automated.

Could you guys be reaching any further with your wild accusations and conspiracy theory's to try and make people believe that half the crap you have said is anything close to proof.

Maybe it's a knot in the wood, I'll admit that, but I'll be damned if I don't see all of the lettering and outer circle already etched into the wood.  At this point, it's clear to me we're just being trolled.

No of course it couldn't be something simple like he used a hand guided router to carve it out, that would make far too much sense. Lets also gloss over the fact that a laser burner CHARS THE WOOD. The carved parts are darker (like from friction), NOT CHARRED BLACK like a laser engraver does.

Two different contexts that are worlds apart.

You changed the context and that shows your lack of being neutral and calling things as you see it (from the video that is). You could not have known what he did 100% unless he said so and showed it on the video, which he did not. And you  have the gall to say we are speculating when you do such?

 

It's so funny that my asking questions about how he got the stencil on before he started to "carve" the wood was never answered by WC himself and yet you claimed to know exactly how he did it without confirming it with him first.

LOL such fail around here.

Make your way over to cryptocrypt.org and sign up for a membership (if you can).

Again, more semantics from one of the biggest trolls on the forum.

You have some nerve talking about "lack of neutrality" considering this whole time you have been talking as if it is a fact he is using lasers. You claim to know I didn't confirm with him first. I in fact DID confirm with him first, but I guess you can read my mind as well as all of my private messages right? WC isn't answering because he knows you are all a mob of idiots that wouldn't be convinced if he hand carved a bust of Abraham Lincoln into your foreheads. Also he has a JOB, something I am betting most of you here don't. Keep repeating yourself Smoothy, maybe some one will buy your bullshit if you say it over and over and over. I am interested to see how the standards of this accusation will YET AGAIN shift once he produces more video of his hand guided routing and hand carving.

THERE HAS BEEN ABSOLUTELY ZERO PROOF PRESENTED, ONLY THEORIES, ACCUSATIONS, AND SPECULATION.

[Hellot]

No of course it couldn't be something simple like he used a hand guided router to carve it out, that would make far too much sense. Lets also gloss over the fact that a laser burner CHARS THE WOOD. The carved parts are darker (like from friction), NOT CHARRED BLACK like a laser engraver does.

If he used a hand guided router, he would have video taped it because it would have helped his cause, but he didn't.  So either he didn't\can't do it or he's trolling us, either way, I've seen enough to conclude this isn't worth any more of my time.

[jonald_fyookball]

@ Tecshare,

We were talking about who has the burden of
proof, not whether the evidence presented
was absolute proof or speculative.

Switching the point of argument is a weak
tactic that will not work on me.

You keep saying you want proof, and not
theories and speculation.  Where is the
proof that WC has any hand carving skill whatsoever,
let alone being a 'master carver' ?   

[TECSHARE]

@ Tecshare,

We were talking about who has the burden of
proof, not whether the evidence presented
was absolute proof or speculative.

Switching the point of argument is a weak
tactic that will not work on me.

You keep saying you want proof, and not
theories and speculation.  Where is the
proof that WC has any hand carving skill whatsoever,
let alone being a 'master carver' ?  

Since now you have decided we are talking about burden of proof, who normally has the burden of proof? The accused or the accuser? In any place where a person is guilty until proven innocent it is usually a pretty big totalitarian hellhole.

This is not switching the point of argument, it is pointing out the fact he was FIRST JUDGED GUILTY, then everyone demanded proof of his innocence. No proof of his guilt was ever presented. End of story.

WHERE IS THE PROOF HE DID SOMETHING WRONG? IT DOESN'T EXIST, if it did it would have been brought up by now somewhere in between all of the theories and accusations.

[smoothie]

@ Tecshare,

We were talking about who has the burden of
proof, not whether the evidence presented
was absolute proof or speculative.

Switching the point of argument is a weak
tactic that will not work on me.

You keep saying you want proof, and not
theories and speculation.  Where is the
proof that WC has any hand carving skill whatsoever,
let alone being a 'master carver' ?   

In my view the BURDEN OF PROOF lies on WC as he made the claims first that his pieces were all "HAND CARVED".

Asking him to prove that isn't much to ask if he is legitimate.

But so far we have no proof of his claims being valid. Only more doubt from his video he posted and his immature way of responding to critics.

[wunkbone]

@ Tecshare,

We were talking about who has the burden of
proof, not whether the evidence presented
was absolute proof or speculative.

Switching the point of argument is a weak
tactic that will not work on me.

You keep saying you want proof, and not
theories and speculation.  Where is the
proof that WC has any hand carving skill whatsoever,
let alone being a 'master carver' ?   

In my view the BURDEN OF PROOF lies on WC as he made the claims first that his pieces were all "HAND CARVED".

Asking him to prove that isn't much to ask if he is legitimate.

But so far we have no proof of his claims being valid. Only more doubt from his video he posted and his immature way of responding to critics.

I would disagree with this. He should be presumed innocent until proven guilty. Absent any proof/evidence that he is in fact being dishonest he should not be under any obligation to prove anything.

If everyone needed to prove they were telling the truth about their product to a trustworthy person then it would be impossible for anyone to ever become trustworthy in the first place

[smoothie]

@ Tecshare,

We were talking about who has the burden of
proof, not whether the evidence presented
was absolute proof or speculative.

Switching the point of argument is a weak
tactic that will not work on me.

You keep saying you want proof, and not
theories and speculation.  Where is the
proof that WC has any hand carving skill whatsoever,
let alone being a 'master carver' ?  

Since now you have decided we are talking about burden of proof, who normally has the burden of proof? The accused or the accuser? In any place where a person is guilty until proven innocent it is usually a pretty big totalitarian hellhole.

This is not switching the point of argument, it is pointing out the fact he was FIRST JUDGED GUILTY, then everyone demanded proof of his innocence. No proof of his guild was ever presented. End of story.

WHERE IS THE PROOF HE DID SOMETHING WRONG? IT DOESN'T EXIST, if it did it would have been brought up by now somewhere in between all of the theories and accusations.

Wrong.

In dec 2014 I approached him about this same issue and never got any clear answers to my questions and he conveniently tried to get me to take the discussion off of the forum.

Which we never continued as I never got around to it.

So no there was initially NO JUDGEMENT of being GUILTY by me as I was the FIRST person to question him.

He even says I approached him professionally. He just never proved he never used a laser and when questioned diverted the discussion elsewhere.

Here is my proof of my claim:

Is this hand carved?

Honestly, no offense it looks like it was laser engraved. I've lasered wood and it looks very similar in nature.

Nice work!!

Hand carved with chisels and worked with a dremmel tool and sandpaper.



No offense taken.

I've seen lasered wood before and it just looks dull to me. It only has 1 real dimension and that's depth. I was looking into getting a laser to speed up the stenciling process but after a day of searching found that any good ones run $20,000 up to $80,000 which is a lot more than i want to spend to save 5 minutes of work of transferring an outline from paper to wood.

Perhaps I misread why the smell was "burnt"?

Isn't carving's only dimension DEPTH given length and width is a given on any flat surface?

Please realize I am no expert in carving and am really just curious.

The smell was "Like Ass" and its because of the UV sealer. As it cures it off gasses and smells like rotten eggs mixed with horse manure.

Its hard to see in some photos of some pieces but carving has many dimensions, A laser printer looks flat like ink on paper, Carving creates many dimensions along the horizontal plane. When you look at Transcendence you can see that each block that was carved is not only rectangular when looking at it straight on but it is also perfectly round when you look at it from a side view as each block holds 2 shapes as you move around it, thus giving it the appearance that it is moving while it is sitting still. To put it simply, THIS PIECE was carved, and THIS PIECE was lasered. you can see that the carved piece ans 3 dimensional characteristics while the lasered piece has no relief or charecter. Lasering is like extruded images.

This is really very, very cool!

big question is, should I include this in my guide of physical crypto coins? perhaps not as a 'normal' entry, but a special page for out-of-the-box things like this.

see it at www.coinfirm.org

You may, yes. There will only be 10 coins made this year ranging from $500 to maybe $10,000 or $20,000 each certified by a CoA. You could list the bitcoin addresses used on the CoA as a means of verifying authenticity for future buyers if someone who purchases the piece from me wishes to sell it to someone else. Each piece in the collection will have a name, and each piece will have its own design and be made from a different exotic wood.

Perhaps I misread why the smell was "burnt"?

Isn't carving's only dimension DEPTH given length and width is a given on any flat surface?

Please realize I am no expert in carving and am really just curious.

The smell was "Like Ass" and its because of the UV sealer. As it cures it off gasses and smells like rotten eggs mixed with horse manure.

Its hard to see in some photos of some pieces but carving has many dimensions, A laser printer looks flat like ink on paper, Carving creates many dimensions along the horizontal plane. When you look at Transcendence you can see that each block that was carved is not only rectangular when looking at it straight on but it is also perfectly round when you look at it from a side view as each block holds 2 shapes as you move around it, thus giving it the appearance that it is moving while it is sitting still. To put it simply, THIS PIECE was carved, and THIS PIECE was lasered. you can see that the carved piece ans 3 dimensional characteristics while the lasered piece has no relief or charecter. Lasering is like extruded images.

This is really very, very cool!

big question is, should I include this in my guide of physical crypto coins? perhaps not as a 'normal' entry, but a special page for out-of-the-box things like this.

see it at www.coinfirm.org

You may, yes. There will only be 10 coins made this year ranging from $500 to maybe $10,000 or $20,000 each certified by a CoA. You could list the bitcoin addresses used on the CoA as a means of verifying authenticity for future buyers if someone who purchases the piece from me wishes to sell it to someone else. Each piece in the collection will have a name, and each piece will have its own design and be made from a different exotic wood.

WoodCollector, thank you for pointing this out for me. Now I have learned something new and will take it and use it going forward.

Aloha!

Any time smoothie. You know, sooner or later you are going to have to make one of these art pieces yours, or commission your own. A man with your reputation and stature in the Bitcoin community needs something beautiful in his home or office to memorialize his position on Bitcoin.

Maybe something from Koa or Mangowood to represent Hawaii

Beautiful.

Thanks Og, I will be messaging you in a bit or maybe tomorrow for an escrow if you wouldnt mind. Have to ship a $17,000 bitcoin art piece and there is no way it leaves my hands without funding from someone who who has 0 reputation in this community and only 9 posts as of today.

From what I gather from the photos you posted above it seems to me (from what I can see) that your piece looks more like this https://i.imgur.com/CoDNGQm.jpg than this https://i.imgur.com/CoDNGQm.jpg

If I am not mistaken it does look a bit flat from the pictures. Could you elaborate to me how it is not like the first link I pasted above?

Lasers also have the ability to go at different depths. I would imagine other more specialized lasers have the ability to move the laser in a 3-dimensional space to carve out an image like the second link you provided above.

All one would need to do is provide the 3dimensional vector image to the system and it would do something as complex as the second link.

Then again that last part I am just guessing as I have not used a 3d laser (if it exists).

Shoot me a PM smoothie, i will go more into detail for you, or do you maybe have skype? I dont want to clutter up the thread with a pages full of talk about the difference between laser engraving and carving. On skype we could have conversation, you could teach me some things i dont know about laser engraving, and i can teach you about the process and results of carving.

Notice how he never got around to answering my question which is directly related to his work vs a stock image of a lasered piece and how they are so similar in nature??

[smoothie]

@ Tecshare,

We were talking about who has the burden of
proof, not whether the evidence presented
was absolute proof or speculative.

Switching the point of argument is a weak
tactic that will not work on me.

You keep saying you want proof, and not
theories and speculation.  Where is the
proof that WC has any hand carving skill whatsoever,
let alone being a 'master carver' ?   

In my view the BURDEN OF PROOF lies on WC as he made the claims first that his pieces were all "HAND CARVED".

Asking him to prove that isn't much to ask if he is legitimate.

But so far we have no proof of his claims being valid. Only more doubt from his video he posted and his immature way of responding to critics.

I would disagree with this. He should be presumed innocent until proven guilty. Absent any proof/evidence that he is in fact being dishonest he should not be under any obligation to prove anything.

If everyone needed to prove they were telling the truth about their product to a trustworthy person then it would be impossible for anyone to ever become trustworthy in the first place

I've worked with a laser engraver and his work does look laser engraved so I told him directly what I thought. See my long post above where I approached him nicely about it in dec 2014.

So no you can't say there wasn't any evidence that he was being dishonest as he already has been proven dishonest by saying he never said he does original/custom work but then I have found several of his own posts where he clearly and strongly implies he does do original work...just to find out he uses clip art off of the internet. So no...he now has reason to be doubted as he misrepresented himself as an artist that does original/custom work.

Burden of proof is on WoodCollector.

[wunkbone]

@ Tecshare,

We were talking about who has the burden of
proof, not whether the evidence presented
was absolute proof or speculative.

Switching the point of argument is a weak
tactic that will not work on me.

You keep saying you want proof, and not
theories and speculation.  Where is the
proof that WC has any hand carving skill whatsoever,
let alone being a 'master carver' ?   

In my view the BURDEN OF PROOF lies on WC as he made the claims first that his pieces were all "HAND CARVED".

Asking him to prove that isn't much to ask if he is legitimate.

But so far we have no proof of his claims being valid. Only more doubt from his video he posted and his immature way of responding to critics.

I would disagree with this. He should be presumed innocent until proven guilty. Absent any proof/evidence that he is in fact being dishonest he should not be under any obligation to prove anything.

If everyone needed to prove they were telling the truth about their product to a trustworthy person then it would be impossible for anyone to ever become trustworthy in the first place

I've worked with a laser engraver and his work does look laser engraved so I told him directly what I thought. See my long post above where I approached him nicely about it in dec 2014.

So no you can't say there wasn't any evidence that he was being dishonest as he already has been proven dishonest by saying he never said he does original/custom work but then I have found several of his own posts where he clearly and strongly implies he does do original work...just to find out he uses clip art off of the internet. So no...he now has reason to be doubted as he misrepresented himself as an artist that does original/custom work.

Burden of proof is on WoodCollector.

Like I said, if there is evidence against him then he needs to prove his case. However just because he makes some claim does not mean that he otherwise needs to prove himself.

[smoothie]

@ Tecshare,

We were talking about who has the burden of
proof, not whether the evidence presented
was absolute proof or speculative.

Switching the point of argument is a weak
tactic that will not work on me.

You keep saying you want proof, and not
theories and speculation.  Where is the
proof that WC has any hand carving skill whatsoever,
let alone being a 'master carver' ?   

In my view the BURDEN OF PROOF lies on WC as he made the claims first that his pieces were all "HAND CARVED".

Asking him to prove that isn't much to ask if he is legitimate.

But so far we have no proof of his claims being valid. Only more doubt from his video he posted and his immature way of responding to critics.

I would disagree with this. He should be presumed innocent until proven guilty. Absent any proof/evidence that he is in fact being dishonest he should not be under any obligation to prove anything.

If everyone needed to prove they were telling the truth about their product to a trustworthy person then it would be impossible for anyone to ever become trustworthy in the first place

I've worked with a laser engraver and his work does look laser engraved so I told him directly what I thought. See my long post above where I approached him nicely about it in dec 2014.

So no you can't say there wasn't any evidence that he was being dishonest as he already has been proven dishonest by saying he never said he does original/custom work but then I have found several of his own posts where he clearly and strongly implies he does do original work...just to find out he uses clip art off of the internet. So no...he now has reason to be doubted as he misrepresented himself as an artist that does original/custom work.

Burden of proof is on WoodCollector.

Like I said, if there is evidence against him then he needs to prove his case. However just because he makes some claim does not mean that he otherwise needs to prove himself.

And this is where hopefully we can agree that he misrepresented himself previously.

This is why things also got called into question. So I still stick to it that WC has the burden of proof.

[MrTeal]

No of course it couldn't be something simple like he used a hand guided router to carve it out, that would make far too much sense. Lets also gloss over the fact that a laser burner CHARS THE WOOD. The carved parts are darker (like from friction), NOT CHARRED BLACK like a laser engraver does.

If he used a hand guided router, he would have video taped it because it would have helped his cause, but he didn't.  So either he didn't\can't do it or he's trolling us, either way, I've seen enough to conclude this isn't worth any more of my time.

The outer circles, sure, no problem. The letters would be a pretty amazing job of handrouting, but whatever. Can anyone really try and suggest that the hand was handrouted though?