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Question: Bitcoin fork proposal by respected Bitcoin lead dev Gavin Andresen, to increase the block size from 1MB to 20MB.
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Author Topic: Bitcoin 20MB Fork  (Read 154258 times)
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February 06, 2015, 10:11:28 PM
 #721

And how on earth can we kill off the 1MB chain, because even if it takes the 1mb chain a year to recover it will still hold the true title of the "original Bitcoin"

Assuming that the 20MB coin got the majority, why would the 1MB need to be killed off? It would just be another altcoin, such as Litecoin etc...
It could never claim the title of "original bitcoin" because it would have a permanent block size cap and bitcoin has never had a permanent block size cap.

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February 06, 2015, 10:17:03 PM
Last edit: February 06, 2015, 10:28:14 PM by bambou
 #722

now 1GB would be if we had nations using it as default currency.

lol seriously wtf..

drop teh pipe dude..
I in no way said I expect that but for that size of a block that's the amount of transactions we would be needing.

Please for all of us on the forum, learn to read and think before you post.

you got nothing, if i would to follow your statement, it would depends on the nation size, network access, etc etc.
you are just throwing 1Gb out of nothing but the thin air your brains are filled with.
please think before posting. or else dont.

Non inultus premor
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February 06, 2015, 10:25:03 PM
 #723

If we assume the fork is needed to maintain a healthy ecosystem; (and the math dose point in that direction) then how do we stop the blocks from filling up with spam and how do we maintain a network of independent miners if fees are going to drop below a single cent per transaction? And how on earth can we kill off the 1MB chain, because even if it takes the 1mb chain a year to recover it will still hold the true title of the "original Bitcoin" and that is 99% of why Bitcoin has rained as the supreme leader in a sea of alt-coins.  

And I recommend the name of this thread be changed to "Bitcoin's 1GB to 20GB Fork" because its clear 20mb is the bare minimum requested by Gavin it was a compromise to get the ball rolling but he wants a lot more then 20MB.

Why should we stop the blocks from filling up with spam? I think that a good pruning method will be developed which will solve the bloatchain issue. This is just a technological challenge, it's nothing impossible.

rename it from 'blockchain' to 'bloatchain'
lmao

Retard. This can be solved. We only need to put our minds to work instead of throwing with shit like you do. Oh wait you haven't developed/built anything in your life so you have no idea how to do it.

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February 06, 2015, 10:26:43 PM
 #724

And how on earth can we kill off the 1MB chain, because even if it takes the 1mb chain a year to recover it will still hold the true title of the "original Bitcoin"

Assuming that the 20MB coin got the majority, why would the 1MB need to be killed off? It would just be another altcoin, such as Litecoin etc...
It could never claim the title of "original bitcoin" because it would have a permanent block size cap and bitcoin has never had a permanent block size cap.

Again we need to stop talking about the new chain as the 20MB coin it will be a lot larger then that.

As to your question, I can only ask if the people on this forum have any idea how hard it would be to coordinate all the exchanges and business leaders and miners to switch over all at the same time.
I think it would be foolish to assume everything will just work itself out in any reasonable amount of time. Any confusion or delays could give rise to a media PR disaster and even if 95+% of business leaders agree the new chain is the real Bitcoin we should assume 10% of the Bitcoin community will side with the smaller chain and that could cause prolonged issues.

(I am a 1MB block supporter who thinks all users should be using Full-Node clients)
Avoid the XT shills, they only want to destroy bitcoin, their hubris and greed will destroy us.
Know your adversary https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
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February 06, 2015, 10:27:45 PM
 #725

now 1GB would be if we had nations using it as default currency.

lol seriously wtf..

drop teh pipe dude..
I in no way said I expect that but for that size of a block that's the amount of transactions we would be needing.

Please for all of us on the forum, learn to read and think before you post.

you got nothing, if i would to follow your statement, it would depends on the nation size, network access, etc etc.
you are just throwing 1Gb out of nothing but the thin air your brains are filled with.
please think before posting. or else dont.
I was referring to the post i quoted which was saying we should call it 1Gb-20Gb fork and I wasn't being scientific with it but I do think if we were having 1Gb blocks there would at least one medium sized nation using it. I didn't say "Oh well France would be using it for 1Gb" as i have no data on that but currently in 1mb we have 800-900 transactions that times 1000 would give us 900,000 transactions in 10 minutes. Now how the fuck would we get that many transactions within 10 minutes without being a standard currency in a nation, you childish trolling douche.

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February 06, 2015, 10:31:00 PM
 #726

Well, you'll be amazed what satoshi really said in that quote and how it is distorted by gavin.

I am going to show the correct interpretation once he comes out of his basket.
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February 06, 2015, 10:40:47 PM
 #727

A sockpuppet is an online identity used for purposes of deception.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockpuppet_%28Internet%29

He has been here a long time, and how contributed to this community with good post, not just endless spam and memes. I think you need to read up a bit on your terms.

How do you know who I am talking about? I didn't say any name, just that there are many sockpuppets (yes, I have read the Wikipedia definition before) in this thread.

Yes, it may be a false assumption.

An economy based on endless growth is unsustainable.
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February 06, 2015, 10:41:15 PM
 #728

Well, you'll be amazed what satoshi really said in that quote and how it is distorted by gavin.

I am going to show the correct interpretation once he comes out of his basket.

Go and eat some shit meanwhile!

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February 06, 2015, 10:48:13 PM
 #729

I am going to show the correct interpretation once he comes out of his basket.

Got a feeling your in for a long wait. He's busy working on the core which is important. Talking to you isn't important.

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February 06, 2015, 10:48:51 PM
 #730

A sockpuppet is an online identity used for purposes of deception.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockpuppet_%28Internet%29

He has been here a long time, and how contributed to this community with good post, not just endless spam and memes. I think you need to read up a bit on your terms.

How do you know who I am talking about? I didn't say any name, just that there are many sockpuppets (yes, I have read the Wikipedia definition before) in this thread.

Yes, it may be a false assumption.
I was replying to Altcoin Hitlers post that said "Says the sockpuppet" on how you were not a sockpuppet, i never said that anyone was.

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February 06, 2015, 11:00:33 PM
 #731

A mix between pro and DGAF as I don't care but it will need to happen eventually so why not now?

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February 06, 2015, 11:02:25 PM
 #732

A mix between pro and DGAF as I don't care but it will need to happen eventually so why not now?

+
That was before i knew more of the details, it still needs to happen before we hit the cap so sooner is better than later.

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February 06, 2015, 11:43:50 PM
 #733

Sorry for the confusion.

An economy based on endless growth is unsustainable.
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February 06, 2015, 11:55:48 PM
 #734

A mix between pro and DGAF as I don't care but it will need to happen eventually so why not now?

+
That was before i knew more of the details, it still needs to happen before we hit the cap so sooner is better than later.

On the one hand, the hard fork is risky, because it means running the risk of Bitcoin splitting into networks. On the other hand, a Bitcoin that never does a hard fork and sticks with the 1 MB restriction forever has no realistic chance of ever attaining mass adoption:

The numbers below are for 2tps.  Double the numbers if you think 4tps is more appropriate but it doesn't materially change the insignificant upper limit.

Code:
Maximum supported users based on transaction frequency.
Assumptions: 1MB block, 821 bytes per txn
Throughput:  2.03 tps, 64,000,000 transactions annually

Total #        Transactions per  Transaction
direct users     user annually    Frequency
       <8,000       8760          Once an hour
      178,000        365          Once a day
      500,000        128          A few (2.4) times a week
    1,200,000         52          Once a week
    2,600,000         24  Twice a month
    5,300,000         12  Once a month
   16,000,000          4  Once a quarter
   64,000,000          1          Once a year
  200,000,000          0.3        Less than once every few years
1,000,000,000          0.06       Less than once a decade

The sooner the hard fork happens, the sooner the market will stop being spooked by the uncertainty, and can invest for growth.



 
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February 07, 2015, 01:48:46 AM
Last edit: February 07, 2015, 02:31:01 AM by toknormal
 #735


Folks. If a hardfork is really needed to support Bitcoin's role in the cryptocurrency economy, then so be it (I'm not technically clued enough to know). But before we decide about the hardfork, lets be utterly sure what that role is:

Bitcoin has done its job. Its role from now on is economic not technical. Just sit there and do sweet F.A. with slow block times and small block sizes (as long as they won't kill it).

I can understand Gavin "worrying' about blocksizes from the perspective of a programmer, but Bitcoin is the reserve of crypto. It will compensate for any technical inefficiencies with value.

Bitcoin is a BASE MONETARY UNIT - NOT TO BE FUCKED WITH.

Gold never got upgraded since the formation of the universe and neither should Bitcoin (unless it's a question of survival). Alts, cryptocurrency derivatives and the world financial system will do the heavy lifting needed to propagate bitcoin's value to the masses.

Bitcoins job (as Gold's was) is to exist. No more.

If you need any evidence for that, here it is:

[1] - during the last 2 years, a flotilla of altcoins far more technically advanced than bitcoin has emerged, yet none of them even made a dent in Bitcoin's marketcap. What does that tell you ? That a currency reserve has more value than a technically superior derivative.

[2] - all the alt's are PRICED in Bitcoin. Therefore even if it doesn't get used as a direct payments medium, its value is still being propagated by the alts

[3] - it is the first ever cryptocurrency. It was designed by Satoshi Nakomoto. All other cryptos valuations are measured in "Satoshis", so even if another crypto is used for "fast confirmation" or "anonymity" or "other fandango bells and whistles all sing all dance features", Bitcoin is what backs that crypto with value because Bitcoin is the BASE MONETARY UNIT of crypto

So a complimentary relationship is emerging here.

Let Bitcoin be the 'old man of crypto' which accrues in value and backs the "alts" as they find their way into all kinds of specific market sectors with increasingly powerful functionality.

Meanwhile, just allow it to exist, be maintained, and be transmitted in a reasonably practical time period (half an hour is fine). Impatient ? Use an alt (who's value is backed by bitcoin).

Bitcoin will never compete with the alts on "features and functions" but the alts will never compete with Bitcoin on value because ultimately it's Bitcoin's value that endorses them (Just look at all the exchanges - everything is priced in BTC). That's where this industry is going.



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February 07, 2015, 02:14:54 AM
 #736

Bitcoin is a BASE MONETARY UNIT - NOT TO BE FUCKED WITH.

Bitcoin isn't a base monetary unit because you want it to be. Bitcoin is a protocol because it's how it was designed.

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February 07, 2015, 02:41:29 AM
 #737


Bitcoin is a BASE MONETARY UNIT - NOT TO BE FUCKED WITH.

Bitcoin isn't a base monetary unit because you want it to be. Bitcoin is a protocol because it's how it was designed.

I was talking definitions.

If a market prices an asset using a common unit, then that unit represents the "base monetary unit" for pricing purposes. If you care to check across all cryptocurrency exchanges, you'll find that 99% of all cryptocurrencies are priced in Bitcoin.

That in itself makes Bitcoin the "base monetary unit" of the entire cryptocurrency economy, however there is another, more fundamental basis for that terminology - namely the fact that Bitcoin is an unbacked monetary token, just as gold was.

Any economy needs something which can function as a monetary medium. It's very rare to find a candidate that works as such because the requirements of a monetary medium are so demanding. Gold worked in physical markets because it's one of the few elements that isn't found in abundance.

Until 2009 there wasn't a single technology that could fulfil that role on an electronic platform - you needed counterparties (otherwise known as 'banks').

So saying that "Bitcoin is a protocol" is a bit like saying "Gold is a metal" - i.e. true but not very relevant to its potential monetary function.

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February 07, 2015, 02:46:09 AM
 #738

tl,dr

@graphic: Btc backing alts with monetary value is wrong. The dollar/euro/CNY backs alts with monetary value. People will trade alts more and more directly for fiat in the future. Bitcoin isn't as significant as it wants to be

In fact it has been observed that trading alts against bitcoin is harmful for the altmarkets because of bitcoins volatility. Any altcoin that wants to grow needs a direct fiatmarket. Bitcoin is not useful as currency to trade other coins against because it is too volatile to let an altmarket be healthy or stable.
If you want a stable and healthy altcoin: avoid trading it against bitcoin (for now)


Different more stable alternatives will take its place as basemoney. Bitcoin is  on the best way to sink into obscurity - this hardfork just speeds it up.
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February 07, 2015, 02:54:59 AM
 #739

@graphic: Btc backing alts with monetary value is wrong. The dollar backs alts with monetary value. People will trade alts more and more directly for fiat in the future. Bitcoin isn't as significant as it wants to be

That sounds like a bit of a robotic statement that's never been thought through.

The dollar is backed by the debt of bond and mortgage holders. It is not in a position to back anything. It is a vague proxy for future economic activity for the most part.

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February 07, 2015, 02:58:37 AM
 #740


@graphic: Btc backing alts with monetary value is wrong. The dollar backs alts with monetary value. People will trade alts more and more directly for fiat in the future. Bitcoin isn't as significant as it wants to be

That sounds like a bit of a robotic statement that's never been thought through.

The dollar is backed by the debt of bond and mortgage holders. It is not in a position to back anything. It is a proxy for future economic activity.



This leads into deep discussion  Cheesy
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