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Author Topic: Mining Container by Polivka GmbH  (Read 20650 times)
Bicknellski
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February 08, 2015, 08:13:48 AM
 #21

Think about bracing the supports along the length of the container. Two additional pieces of square pipe won't cost a lot more.
I don't want to be there when a little wind, like 6m/s (if placed outside) will literally put the mining box "on the ground".

http://www.yourspreadsheets.co.uk/wind-on-structures-analysis-to-ec-1.html

There are actually two things still waiting to be delivered: Some guy cabling from the pillars to the corners of the container and a canvas under the container to prevent a short circuit from the air outlet to the intake.
As for the strength of the container itself: you can load >20to inside standing only on 4 corners.  

It will win if you can find cheap electricity.

Suggest this is perfect for farms with biogas generators waste heat from container can be cycled into digesters to help maintain higher digester ambient temperatures for spring fall and winter. Going "green" energy for this system would be viable. You could have a large number of smaller operators using this sort of system and pooling their resources.

This thread should be in Mining Hardware not Service Announcements.


Thanks. I already PM'ed ckolivas, who moved the thread - maybe he has mercy and reconsiders his decision. I guess a lot of interested people would miss it here.

As for the biogas generators: Don't they produce 2/3 of heat compared to electricity anyways? Do they need even more heat in the process?
My company runs mining in water power plants in Austria - if the numbers align a bit more favorably I will put it near one and fill it up with miners. Any project propositions - just PM me.
 


In colder climates an issue is often to maintain heat in the digestor tanks and they often have to be buried and insulated as you may know heat loss can lower gas production.

http://acep.uaf.edu/media/50756/ACEP_ResourceOverview_Biogas.pdf

Quote
Thermophilic — Between 49˚–57°C (120°–134°F)
Mesophilic — Between 20˚–45°C (68˚–113°F)
Psychrophilic — At or below 20°C (≤68°F)

Quote
Conversion of biomass to biogas is greatly accelerated at
warm temperatures, falls off sharply at low temperatures
and is almost nominal below 15°C (59°F). Most
commercial and industrial biogas facilities in operation
today maintain a stable temperature conducive to the
specific microbial community that they utilize. Often
this involves additional heat inputs to maintain high
microbial metabolic rates and system performance.



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February 08, 2015, 08:20:14 AM
 #22

I think is a nice concept.

In my opinion needs to improve the airflow a cold area with positive pressure and a hot area with negative pressure and density unless is able to handle 400 KW is not very efficient. I am totally sure can fit more miners inside a container even using racks, I support the concept and is a nice Idea I would buy.

Thanks.
We put a lot of time and thinking into the inner layout and airflow design of this. Main problem is that the container will probably live trough more than one miner generation - so it is impossible to tell how exactly they will look like.
If I know that I'll fill this thing up with SP35's only I would have done a different layout. But given the premium for Spondoolies rack hardware and the quality of BITMAIN 19 inch miners I wanted to stay flexible.
400kW air-cooled on 3m of shelving is a little optimistic.... however, with SP35 maybe possible, didn't run the numbers.

If I could get this miner

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=944406.0

It would work.  this miner does not exist .  putting 114 s-5's or sp20 in  that crate  won't pay off.

Hi. Thanks also.
I know investing in mining does look horrible at the moment, even with cheap power and all that.
You can't write off the container in 3 month, like you might still be used to calculate when evaluating a mining invest. Most home miners already have a power outlet and don't need to build anything to get rid of the heat from one miner.
On a bigger scale this also causes costs, and not to little of it. You can't avoid it if you want to have cheap power - it doesn't come to you, you must move to it.
Therefore a mobile solution is a nice thing to have. You find a place with even much cheaper power? Not an issue, truck comes tomorrow.
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February 08, 2015, 08:24:59 AM
 #23

In colder climates an issue is often to maintain heat in the digestor tanks and they often have to be buried and insulated as you may know heat loss can lower gas production.

http://acep.uaf.edu/media/50756/ACEP_ResourceOverview_Biogas.pdf

Quote
Thermophilic — Between 49˚–57°C (120°–134°F)
Mesophilic — Between 20˚–45°C (68˚–113°F)
Psychrophilic — At or below 20°C (≤68°F)

Quote
Conversion of biomass to biogas is greatly accelerated at
warm temperatures, falls off sharply at low temperatures
and is almost nominal below 15°C (59°F). Most
commercial and industrial biogas facilities in operation
today maintain a stable temperature conducive to the
specific microbial community that they utilize. Often
this involves additional heat inputs to maintain high
microbial metabolic rates and system performance.

I guess this is for gas production only - as soon as you use the gas in a combustion engine to produce electricity you should have heat in abundance.
In Austria some of the biogas electricity plants also offer the service of drying wood chips with the excess heat - I'm not an expert on the biogas field, but we have been thinking on offering the wood-chip drying with miner heat for a second...
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February 08, 2015, 04:36:43 PM
 #24


Right aisle and shelf

http://i.imgur.com/nAEMRWf.jpg
Are the shelves gonna be able to handle the heat from the miners???
Heaven forbid if one of them burns up and takes the rest with them.
Have you got any idea about the fire handling capabilities of building grade MDF?
I doubt even an exploding prisma can set any kind of noticeable fire on MDF .... well at least MDF manufactured in Germany / for EU use.

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February 08, 2015, 04:41:42 PM
 #25


Right aisle and shelf

http://i.imgur.com/nAEMRWf.jpg
Are the shelves gonna be able to handle the heat from the miners???
Heaven forbid if one of them burns up and takes the rest with them.
Have you got any idea about the fire handling capabilities of building grade MDF?
I doubt even an exploding prisma can set any kind of noticeable fire on MDF .... well at least MDF manufactured in Germany / for EU use.


No I do not know...That's why I asked. It looks like there is a lot of airflow
so the shelves should only get warm to the touch. Just wondered about higher temps.
Thanx for the info.

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February 08, 2015, 05:18:58 PM
 #26


Right aisle and shelf

http://i.imgur.com/nAEMRWf.jpg
Are the shelves gonna be able to handle the heat from the miners???
Heaven forbid if one of them burns up and takes the rest with them.
Have you got any idea about the fire handling capabilities of building grade MDF?
I doubt even an exploding prisma can set any kind of noticeable fire on MDF .... well at least MDF manufactured in Germany / for EU use.


No I do not know...That's why I asked. It looks like there is a lot of airflow
so the shelves should only get warm to the touch. Just wondered about higher temps.
Thanx for the info.

The material is indeed MDF, well spotted!
One of the advantages of mining in a container is that the fire hazard is at least limited to one container (that is if you set it up not to close to anything else). That's already a huge advantage compared to mining in a factory hall where a building and in some cases human life is at stake.
It would probably be possible to integrate a CO2 fire extinguisher, but we think that is best bought locally due to licenses and certificates. Some goes for an alarm system.
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February 08, 2015, 09:26:06 PM
 #27

Pictures of this stocked? I'd want metal shelving rather than solid wood, every bit of air flow helps.

Love to see these full!
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February 09, 2015, 01:47:48 AM
 #28

Think about bracing the supports along the length of the container. Two additional pieces of square pipe won't cost a lot more.
I don't want to be there when a little wind, like 6m/s (if placed outside) will literally put the mining box "on the ground".

http://www.yourspreadsheets.co.uk/wind-on-structures-analysis-to-ec-1.html

There are actually two things still waiting to be delivered: Some guy cabling from the pillars to the corners of the container and a canvas under the container to prevent a short circuit from the air outlet to the intake.
As for the strength of the container itself: you can load >20to inside standing only on 4 corners.  

It will win if you can find cheap electricity.

Suggest this is perfect for farms with biogas generators waste heat from container can be cycled into digesters to help maintain higher digester ambient temperatures for spring fall and winter. Going "green" energy for this system would be viable. You could have a large number of smaller operators using this sort of system and pooling their resources.

This thread should be in Mining Hardware not Service Announcements.


Thanks. I already PM'ed ckolivas, who moved the thread - maybe he has mercy and reconsiders his decision. I guess a lot of interested people would miss it here.

As for the biogas generators: Don't they produce 2/3 of heat compared to electricity anyways? Do they need even more heat in the process?
My company runs mining in water power plants in Austria - if the numbers align a bit more favorably I will put it near one and fill it up with miners. Any project propositions - just PM me.
 

Even though the thread was move to a least desirable locale [in your mind], consider posting on this forum as much as possible, whereupon your sig will garner more eyeballs, coupled with appropriately bumping your thread periodically with relative information.

Also, don't forget that there's other crypto forums out there that you can join. The key is to play nice, and have a good product (check) at a descent price point (I'm not qualified to judge this).

Do all the above, and you'll be pleasantly surprise the mileage you'll enjoy, albeit one caveat: Your mileage may vary.  Wink

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February 09, 2015, 02:05:15 AM
 #29

It is now in hardware. I will post in it  this time to say I think moving it to hardware was correct.

I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net...
I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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February 09, 2015, 03:52:30 PM
 #30



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February 09, 2015, 03:56:26 PM
 #31

[...]

I know mining calculations look not really good at the moment - guess why this thing is still empty...

In your particular case, that would mean you make more from the EU subsidies than mining? If you don't mind sharing, how much are the hydro subsidies this year?

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February 09, 2015, 04:30:25 PM
 #32

[...]

I know mining calculations look not really good at the moment - guess why this thing is still empty...

In your particular case, that would mean you make more from the EU subsidies than mining? If you don't mind sharing, how much are the hydro subsidies this year?

It's the investment cost of the miners measured in Bitcoin which is the problem. There is just nothing left to cover the risks you are taking, even it looks like you could mine back the Bitcoin invested in an acceptable time frame. It looks completely different if you already have the hardware.

Regarding subsidies for hydro power it depends if you get any - there is only some money if you newly renovate your power plant and can prove that it will increase the yield by at least 20%.
If that's the case you can choose between getting some money for each kWh for the next 13 years or a fraction of the investment.

It's a pretty sad story - many power plants in Austria stand still because the ROI times for investing are >50 years. Also there are many ecological rules and other regulations, until ~2024 all power plant owners will be forced to install a fish ladder which often consumes the profits of ten or more years.
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February 09, 2015, 07:05:22 PM
 #33

[...]

I know mining calculations look not really good at the moment - guess why this thing is still empty...

In your particular case, that would mean you make more from the EU subsidies than mining? If you don't mind sharing, how much are the hydro subsidies this year?

It's the investment cost of the miners measured in Bitcoin which is the problem. There is just nothing left to cover the risks you are taking, even it looks like you could mine back the Bitcoin invested in an acceptable time frame. It looks completely different if you already have the hardware.

Regarding subsidies for hydro power it depends if you get any - there is only some money if you newly renovate your power plant and can prove that it will increase the yield by at least 20%.
If that's the case you can choose between getting some money for each kWh for the next 13 years or a fraction of the investment.

It's a pretty sad story - many power plants in Austria stand still because the ROI times for investing are >50 years. Also there are many ecological rules and other regulations, until ~2024 all power plant owners will be forced to install a fish ladder which often consumes the profits of ten or more years.
Here in washington state, where we have 2 cent per kilowatt hour hydro power, and more bitcoin mines then we know what to do with... and all of our dams have fish ladders. it can be done, and done profitably.

also doesnt vienna have a nuclear power plant that has never been turned on?
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February 09, 2015, 08:04:30 PM
 #34

Here in washington state, where we have 2 cent per kilowatt hour hydro power, and more bitcoin mines then we know what to do with... and all of our dams have fish ladders. it can be done, and done profitably.

also doesnt vienna have a nuclear power plant that has never been turned on?

The 2 cents are what you get when you run the power plant or what you pay including the fee for the network, taxes etc?

The Austrian nuclear power plant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwentendorf_Nuclear_Power_Plant - never went live.

Regarding the fish ladders: I guess the dams in Washington state are all huge, the area where I live and Austria in general is full of small privately owned power plants, I guess most in the 10kW to 50kW capacity range. For them fish ladders are often very difficult to integrate. There is anyways little option because if you don't build the fish ladder you have dismantle you power plant and build back the river to it's shape before the plant, which is often even more expensive.
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February 10, 2015, 04:26:35 AM
 #35

Here in washington state, where we have 2 cent per kilowatt hour hydro power, and more bitcoin mines then we know what to do with... and all of our dams have fish ladders. it can be done, and done profitably.
The 2 cents are what you get when you run the power plant or what you pay including the fee for the network, taxes etc?

That is what you pay as an industrial customer. I also guess fish ladders were planned for those plants from day one.


Regarding the fish ladders: I guess the dams in Washington state are all huge, the area where I live and Austria in general is full of small privately owned power plants, I guess most in the 10kW to 50kW capacity range. For them fish ladders are often very difficult to integrate. There is anyways little option because if you don't build the fish ladder you have dismantle you power plant and build back the river to it's shape before the plant, which is often even more expensive.

I've heard of that. It makes even less sense for cases where the river was diverted (not entirely) to the plant many decades ago. So the water to the plant is in a separate channel and the fish can go through the old river bed. But even those channels apparently are required to build fish ladders.  Huh


It's a pretty sad story - many power plants in Austria stand still because the ROI times for investing are >50 years.

I think if you can convince them to sell their power for 0.05 US cents or less, you'd find some interested people in this space.

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February 10, 2015, 05:04:55 AM
 #36

7 cents here is residential, that's Canadian, o 6 or 5 cents USD.

I've seen 4 or 5 for Business in bulk
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February 11, 2015, 02:08:50 AM
 #37

@Polivka GmbH!!!!

Is this an Ant Castle?Huh  Any ants living in there yet?Huh


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February 11, 2015, 07:18:13 AM
 #38

@Polivka GmbH!!!!
Is this an Ant Castle?Huh  Any ants living in there yet?Huh

Any serious propositions? I am open for anything. Would love to fill up the shelf to the last square inch... 
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March 14, 2015, 01:25:03 PM
 #39

Pictures of this stocked? I'd want metal shelving rather than solid wood, every bit of air flow helps.

Love to see these full!

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March 14, 2015, 01:38:47 PM
 #40

Do you have any stats on the full setup?  Things like total container hashrate, internal/exhaust temps, decibel levels, miner stability when fully loaded container is sealed etc...

That would be most interesting.

Tired of substandard power distribution in your ASIC setup???   Chris' Custom Cablez will get you sorted out right!  No job too hard so PM me for a quote
Check my products or ask a question here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=74397.0
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