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Author Topic: Mining Container by Polivka GmbH  (Read 20826 times)
Polivka GmbH
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February 07, 2015, 12:11:27 PM
Merited by OgNasty (1)
 #1

Hello Bitcoin-Community,

Polivka GmbH presents the Mining-Container, okay for >100kW of your gear:

Outside



Right aisle and shelf



Left aisle



Filter from top



Filter from bottom



Air outlet from bottom



Silencer



6 Piece 32A-three phase plugs



C13 connection cables



Left fan



Power distribution box from inside



Power distribution box



Power distribution overview



Measured air quantities:

Fans in delta operation (fast mode), filters clean:

27200m3/h (16 009cfm), 70Pa pressure difference between inside and outside

Fans in delta operation (fast mode), filters "dirty" (covered):

25502m3/h (15 009cfm), 140Pa pressure difference between inside and outside

Fans in delta operation (fast mode), filters very "dirty" (covered):

21482m3/h (12 643cfm), 190Pa pressure difference between inside and outside

Fans in star operation (slow mode), filters clean:

21205m3/h (12 480cfm), 50Pa pressure difference between inside and outside

Fans in star operation (slow mode), filters "dirty" (covered):

15301m3/h (9 005cfm), 140Pa pressure difference between inside and outside

The fans suck in the air from the front through the filters and push them over the silencers outside again - the noise level is surprisingly low!

The container can be loaded and unloaded without crane using the pictured pillars and an air-suspended truck only. (Almost all of the trucks in Europe have air suspension)

Prices are all net, without taxes (for commercial customers or export):

Base Price:

EUR 8900
~US$ 10,200 at the time of writing

includes the adapted container, the fans installed but not wired, the filter and silencer

Fully flexible, adjustable shelf 3x 97cm wide, 60cm deep, ~2.3m high, 7 compartments
Roughly 3x38inch wide, 23 inch deep and 7.5 foot high

EUR 1600
~US$ 1,800

Electric installation (6 distributors with 32A 3-phase connection each, 114 C13 cables in total fused with 10A each, 6 three-fold "Schuko"-outlets fused with 16A, 2 motor protection switches for the fans, 2 lights with switch)
Pictures and price of electric plant is for 230V and European regulations.

EUR 3600
~US$ 4,100

Pillars zinc-plated  (4 piece)

EUR 1600
~US$ 1,800

Price as pictured ex Works Austria, EU: EUR 15700, ~US$ 18,000 at the time of writing

Lead time ~6 Weeks

Containers are made to order - fully customizable!

Thanks for your attention!
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February 07, 2015, 12:24:28 PM
 #2

https://i.imgur.com/pcy9FUu.gif

Full video in 16x Speed: https://vimeo.com/119105477
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February 07, 2015, 12:37:37 PM
 #3

  This would have been nice to have last year, but this year prices make it too costly.  100 kwatts  are about 140 s-5s  since you have 114 plugs lets say it will do 114 s-5s'   114 x 1.15 th = 131 th

At 8 cents a kwatt . that 18000 usd unit take 81 days to pay off. 

I have left the shipping price out.
I have left the psu price out.
I have left the s-5 price out.

I have frozen the diff at 42 and in 3 days it is going to 45

I have to say it is a nice piece of gear .
I would love to have filled with s-5's mining in a warehouse using some low cost power.
Good luck selling it.

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I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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February 07, 2015, 12:46:02 PM
 #4

 This would have been nice to have last year, but this year prices make it too costly.  100 kwatts  are about 140 s-5s  since you have 114 plug lets say it will do 114 s-5s'   114 x 1.15 th = 131 th

Costly compared to what? Ever asked for a quotation of a factory hall with all the cooling and power distribution? Also with this you are more flexible regarding the location.

I know mining calculations look not really good at the moment - guess why this thing is still empty...
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February 07, 2015, 12:48:19 PM
 #5

I have a similar project in mind, but you beat me to it. Good work!

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February 07, 2015, 12:51:00 PM
 #6

I have a similar project in mind, but you beat me to it. Good work!

To be perfectly honest on this: these guy's beat me to it: http://cryptokube.com - they came out when I already purchased the container, however I think my concept is more suited for mining and less like traditional shipping container data centers.
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February 07, 2015, 01:55:38 PM
 #7

Well you killed them on price it seems.  It would just be too hard to recoup all the costs associated with this and the hardware during this time unfortunately.

Very well thought out piece of work though,  well done.

Tired of substandard power distribution in your ASIC setup???   Chris' Custom Cablez will get you sorted out right!  No job too hard so PM me for a quote
Check my products or ask a question here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=74397.0
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February 07, 2015, 04:24:09 PM
 #8

Think about bracing the supports along the length of the container. Two additional pieces of square pipe won't cost a lot more.
I don't want to be there when a little wind, like 6m/s (if placed outside) will literally put the mining box "on the ground".

http://www.yourspreadsheets.co.uk/wind-on-structures-analysis-to-ec-1.html

There is a free XLS there allowing you to do some wind calculations without printing or changing logos or something.
Good enough to see how big the bracing should be.

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February 07, 2015, 04:28:18 PM
 #9

It will win if you can find cheap electricity.

Suggest this is perfect for farms with biogas generators waste heat from container can be cycled into digesters to help maintain higher digester ambient temperatures for spring fall and winter. Going "green" energy for this system would be viable. You could have a large number of smaller operators using this sort of system and pooling their resources.

This thread should be in Mining Hardware not Service Announcements.

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February 07, 2015, 04:32:42 PM
 #10

Think about bracing the supports along the length of the container. Two additional pieces of square pipe won't cost a lot more.
I don't want to be there when a little wind, like 6m/s (if placed outside) will literally put the mining box "on the ground".

http://www.yourspreadsheets.co.uk/wind-on-structures-analysis-to-ec-1.html

There are actually two things still waiting to be delivered: Some guy cabling from the pillars to the corners of the container and a canvas under the container to prevent a short circuit from the air outlet to the intake.
As for the strength of the container itself: you can load >20to inside standing only on 4 corners.  

It will win if you can find cheap electricity.

Suggest this is perfect for farms with biogas generators waste heat from container can be cycled into digesters to help maintain higher digester ambient temperatures for spring fall and winter. Going "green" energy for this system would be viable. You could have a large number of smaller operators using this sort of system and pooling their resources.

This thread should be in Mining Hardware not Service Announcements.

Thanks. I already PM'ed ckolivas, who moved the thread - maybe he has mercy and reconsiders his decision. I guess a lot of interested people would miss it here.

As for the biogas generators: Don't they produce 2/3 of heat compared to electricity anyways? Do they need even more heat in the process?
My company runs mining in water power plants in Austria - if the numbers align a bit more favorably I will put it near one and fill it up with miners. Any project propositions - just PM me.
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February 07, 2015, 04:34:40 PM
 #11

I'd definitely question the strength of the leg supports. What's the empty (no miners) weight of the fully-outfitted container? Adding 114x S5 to the mix will increase the weight by a good 900lb. Have you the engineering figures on the strength of the attachments, shear strength of the bolts and drilled-out tube?

Also, is there an option to run C20 cables instead of C14? If we're looking for space density, 2KW and 2.8KW PSUs (as well as SP30 and up) require C20 cables.

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February 07, 2015, 04:39:10 PM
 #12

Costly compared to what? Ever asked for a quotation of a factory hall with all the cooling and power distribution? Also with this you are more flexible regarding the location.

I know mining calculations look not really good at the moment - guess why this thing is still empty...

It's not that your price is costly compared to anything similar, it's just that the mining market is so saturated already that there is no hope for professional miners to succeed right now, unless 1) you live anywhere above the polar circle AND 2) have access to (preferably low-latency) internet AND 3) have access to hundreds of kW <$0.04 kWh AND last but not least, 4) have access to an investment capital >$100k.

OR, mum's garage and call "ROI" what would be like stealing from her wallet at night...

I have been mining for over a year at profit (GPUs then ASICs), even rented two dedicated room for this, found investors for the equipment and foolishly guaranteed their principal, now we have to cover for this from my own pocket and my associate's, just to recover our investors' principal (as we were not scammers, we didn't implement financial insulation like an LLC or something). It's so frustrating for many of us, really. But you know, lesson learned Wink
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February 07, 2015, 04:41:27 PM
 #13

I'd definitely question the strength of the leg supports. What's the empty (no miners) weight of the fully-outfitted container? Adding 114x S5 to the mix will increase the weight by a good 900lb. Have you the engineering figures on the strength of the attachments, shear strength of the bolts and drilled-out tube?

Also, is there an option to run C20 cables instead of C14? If we're looking for space density, 2KW and 2.8KW PSUs (as well as SP30 and up) require C20 cables.

The pipe is 80x80x5mm. I had these made and dimensioned from a company licensed to do such things.
The thread on the bolts and nuts is M30.
The empty weight of a 20foot shipping container is 2.2tons. I didn't measure the weight of the fully outfitted container but I'm sure it's way below a ton without miners.

Any options for outfitting you wish. The cables are now C13, the female part which directly goes into the PSU. I have done this having SP20 in mind because of the better $/hash ratio and cheaply available second hand server PSU's.
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February 07, 2015, 04:44:49 PM
 #14

It's not that your price is costly compared to anything similar, it's just that the mining market is so saturated already that there is no hope for professional miners to succeed right now, unless 1) you live anywhere above the polar circle AND 2) have access to (preferably low-latency) internet AND 3) have access to hundreds of kW <$0.04 kWh AND last but not least, 4) have access to an investment capital >$100k.

Everyone mining needs something providing shelter from the elements, cooling and power distribution. I believe this to be a very elegant and flexible solution and mining will somehow eventually continue.
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February 07, 2015, 05:50:24 PM
 #15

Nice work!  Great price!

Looks like a great product.

Can you just answer a couple of questions.

1.  How do you get air through the filters when this is sitting on the ground?
2.  How do you change the filters when it is sitting on the ground?
3.  If it stays on the stilts how do you enter the unit?  Cargo doors with ladder?
4.  If you open the cargo doors in a snow storm and go inside how do you close the doors to do your work without getting snow and weather blowing in?
5.  How do you keep condensation from forming and dripping on the machines?

I love to talk with you sometime and compare notes.  We could even maybe highlight your product on our page so EU customers have an option.

I wish you much success. 

Doug
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February 07, 2015, 06:00:19 PM
 #16

Nice work!  Great price!

Looks like a great product.

Can you just answer a couple of questions.

1.  How do you get air through the filters when this is sitting on the ground?
2.  How do you change the filters when it is sitting on the ground?
3.  If it stays on the stilts how do you enter the unit?  Cargo doors with ladder?
4.  If you open the cargo doors in a snow storm and go inside how do you close the doors to do your work without getting snow and weather blowing in?
5.  How do you keep condensation from forming and dripping on the machines?

I love to talk with you sometime and compare notes.  We could even maybe highlight your product on our page so EU customers have an option.

I wish you much success.  

Doug
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Thanks!

It's not meant to be run without the stilts, or anything else holding it up if you don't wish to purchase them (in case you don't intend moving it anyways).
You can buy a ladder from me - tailored to the container, however you probably want to solve that problem yourself because of the price...
It's possible to lean the door to the sealing from the inside.

I prevent condensation the same way you do - heating the inside by means of bitcoin miners  Smiley
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February 07, 2015, 06:58:58 PM
 #17

This is simply amazing.
-GREAT- job!  Grin

I know this doesn't have much practical use with today's prices, but this concept is brilliant.

One question that I didn't see explained, why do you have the air vented out from the bottom of the container instead of the top?

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February 07, 2015, 07:08:51 PM
 #18

This is simply amazing.
-GREAT- job!  Grin

I know this doesn't have much practical use with today's prices, but this concept is brilliant.

One question that I didn't see explained, why do you have the air vented out from the bottom of the container instead of the top?

Hi. Thanks for the flowers  Smiley

I didn't want to injure the outside skin. Also water-proof silencers are much more expensive.
It would be nice to suck in the air from the top, but also rain comes that way so I abandoned that idea  Wink
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February 07, 2015, 10:36:36 PM
 #19

Hi. Thanks for the flowers  Smiley

I didn't want to injure the outside skin. Also water-proof silencers are much more expensive.
It would be nice to suck in the air from the top, but also rain comes that way so I abandoned that idea  Wink

yeah you built a really nice piece of gear. It is too costly  because buying 114 s-5's or 114 sp20's don't put you ahead of the curve due to the terrible price of BTC.

If I could get this miner

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=944406.0

It would work.  this miner does not exist .  putting 114 s-5's or sp20 in  that crate  won't pay off.

Now if I had cheap power yeah maybe.  

I do like the build.

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February 08, 2015, 08:13:48 AM
 #20

In colder climates an issue is often to maintain heat in the digestor tanks and they often have to be buried and insulated as you may know heat loss can lower gas production.

http://acep.uaf.edu/media/50756/ACEP_ResourceOverview_Biogas.pdf

Quote
Thermophilic — Between 49˚–57°C (120°–134°F)
Mesophilic — Between 20˚–45°C (68˚–113°F)
Psychrophilic — At or below 20°C (≤68°F)

Quote
Conversion of biomass to biogas is greatly accelerated at
warm temperatures, falls off sharply at low temperatures
and is almost nominal below 15°C (59°F). Most
commercial and industrial biogas facilities in operation
today maintain a stable temperature conducive to the
specific microbial community that they utilize. Often
this involves additional heat inputs to maintain high
microbial metabolic rates and system performance.

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February 08, 2015, 08:20:14 AM
 #21

I think is a nice concept.

In my opinion needs to improve the airflow a cold area with positive pressure and a hot area with negative pressure and density unless is able to handle 400 KW is not very efficient. I am totally sure can fit more miners inside a container even using racks, I support the concept and is a nice Idea I would buy.

Thanks.
We put a lot of time and thinking into the inner layout and airflow design of this. Main problem is that the container will probably live trough more than one miner generation - so it is impossible to tell how exactly they will look like.
If I know that I'll fill this thing up with SP35's only I would have done a different layout. But given the premium for Spondoolies rack hardware and the quality of BITMAIN 19 inch miners I wanted to stay flexible.
400kW air-cooled on 3m of shelving is a little optimistic.... however, with SP35 maybe possible, didn't run the numbers.

If I could get this miner

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=944406.0

It would work.  this miner does not exist .  putting 114 s-5's or sp20 in  that crate  won't pay off.

Hi. Thanks also.
I know investing in mining does look horrible at the moment, even with cheap power and all that.
You can't write off the container in 3 month, like you might still be used to calculate when evaluating a mining invest. Most home miners already have a power outlet and don't need to build anything to get rid of the heat from one miner.
On a bigger scale this also causes costs, and not to little of it. You can't avoid it if you want to have cheap power - it doesn't come to you, you must move to it.
Therefore a mobile solution is a nice thing to have. You find a place with even much cheaper power? Not an issue, truck comes tomorrow.
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February 08, 2015, 08:24:59 AM
 #22

In colder climates an issue is often to maintain heat in the digestor tanks and they often have to be buried and insulated as you may know heat loss can lower gas production.

http://acep.uaf.edu/media/50756/ACEP_ResourceOverview_Biogas.pdf

Quote
Thermophilic — Between 49˚–57°C (120°–134°F)
Mesophilic — Between 20˚–45°C (68˚–113°F)
Psychrophilic — At or below 20°C (≤68°F)

Quote
Conversion of biomass to biogas is greatly accelerated at
warm temperatures, falls off sharply at low temperatures
and is almost nominal below 15°C (59°F). Most
commercial and industrial biogas facilities in operation
today maintain a stable temperature conducive to the
specific microbial community that they utilize. Often
this involves additional heat inputs to maintain high
microbial metabolic rates and system performance.

I guess this is for gas production only - as soon as you use the gas in a combustion engine to produce electricity you should have heat in abundance.
In Austria some of the biogas electricity plants also offer the service of drying wood chips with the excess heat - I'm not an expert on the biogas field, but we have been thinking on offering the wood-chip drying with miner heat for a second...
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February 08, 2015, 04:36:43 PM
 #23

Are the shelves gonna be able to handle the heat from the miners???
Heaven forbid if one of them burns up and takes the rest with them.

Have you got any idea about the fire handling capabilities of building grade MDF?
I doubt even an exploding prisma can set any kind of noticeable fire on MDF .... well at least MDF manufactured in Germany / for EU use.

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February 08, 2015, 04:41:42 PM
 #24

Have you got any idea about the fire handling capabilities of building grade MDF?
I doubt even an exploding prisma can set any kind of noticeable fire on MDF .... well at least MDF manufactured in Germany / for EU use.

No I do not know...That's why I asked. It looks like there is a lot of airflow
so the shelves should only get warm to the touch. Just wondered about higher temps.
Thanx for the info.

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February 08, 2015, 05:18:58 PM
 #25

The material is indeed MDF, well spotted!
One of the advantages of mining in a container is that the fire hazard is at least limited to one container (that is if you set it up not to close to anything else). That's already a huge advantage compared to mining in a factory hall where a building and in some cases human life is at stake.
It would probably be possible to integrate a CO2 fire extinguisher, but we think that is best bought locally due to licenses and certificates. Some goes for an alarm system.
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February 08, 2015, 09:26:06 PM
 #26

Pictures of this stocked? I'd want metal shelving rather than solid wood, every bit of air flow helps.

Love to see these full!
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February 09, 2015, 01:47:48 AM
 #27

Thanks. I already PM'ed ckolivas, who moved the thread - maybe he has mercy and reconsiders his decision. I guess a lot of interested people would miss it here.

As for the biogas generators: Don't they produce 2/3 of heat compared to electricity anyways? Do they need even more heat in the process?
My company runs mining in water power plants in Austria - if the numbers align a bit more favorably I will put it near one and fill it up with miners. Any project propositions - just PM me.

Even though the thread was move to a least desirable locale [in your mind], consider posting on this forum as much as possible, whereupon your sig will garner more eyeballs, coupled with appropriately bumping your thread periodically with relative information.

Also, don't forget that there's other crypto forums out there that you can join. The key is to play nice, and have a good product (check) at a descent price point (I'm not qualified to judge this).

Do all the above, and you'll be pleasantly surprise the mileage you'll enjoy, albeit one caveat: Your mileage may vary.  Wink
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February 09, 2015, 02:05:15 AM
 #28

It is now in hardware. I will post in it  this time to say I think moving it to hardware was correct.

I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net...
I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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February 09, 2015, 03:52:30 PM
 #29

https://i.imgur.com/pcy9FUu.gif

Full video in 16x Speed: https://vimeo.com/119105477
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February 09, 2015, 03:56:26 PM
 #30

[...]

I know mining calculations look not really good at the moment - guess why this thing is still empty...

In your particular case, that would mean you make more from the EU subsidies than mining? If you don't mind sharing, how much are the hydro subsidies this year?

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February 09, 2015, 04:30:25 PM
 #31

In your particular case, that would mean you make more from the EU subsidies than mining? If you don't mind sharing, how much are the hydro subsidies this year?

It's the investment cost of the miners measured in Bitcoin which is the problem. There is just nothing left to cover the risks you are taking, even it looks like you could mine back the Bitcoin invested in an acceptable time frame. It looks completely different if you already have the hardware.

Regarding subsidies for hydro power it depends if you get any - there is only some money if you newly renovate your power plant and can prove that it will increase the yield by at least 20%.
If that's the case you can choose between getting some money for each kWh for the next 13 years or a fraction of the investment.

It's a pretty sad story - many power plants in Austria stand still because the ROI times for investing are >50 years. Also there are many ecological rules and other regulations, until ~2024 all power plant owners will be forced to install a fish ladder which often consumes the profits of ten or more years.
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February 09, 2015, 07:05:22 PM
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It's the investment cost of the miners measured in Bitcoin which is the problem. There is just nothing left to cover the risks you are taking, even it looks like you could mine back the Bitcoin invested in an acceptable time frame. It looks completely different if you already have the hardware.

Regarding subsidies for hydro power it depends if you get any - there is only some money if you newly renovate your power plant and can prove that it will increase the yield by at least 20%.
If that's the case you can choose between getting some money for each kWh for the next 13 years or a fraction of the investment.

It's a pretty sad story - many power plants in Austria stand still because the ROI times for investing are >50 years. Also there are many ecological rules and other regulations, until ~2024 all power plant owners will be forced to install a fish ladder which often consumes the profits of ten or more years.

Here in washington state, where we have 2 cent per kilowatt hour hydro power, and more bitcoin mines then we know what to do with... and all of our dams have fish ladders. it can be done, and done profitably.

also doesnt vienna have a nuclear power plant that has never been turned on?
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February 09, 2015, 08:04:30 PM
 #33

Here in washington state, where we have 2 cent per kilowatt hour hydro power, and more bitcoin mines then we know what to do with... and all of our dams have fish ladders. it can be done, and done profitably.

also doesnt vienna have a nuclear power plant that has never been turned on?

The 2 cents are what you get when you run the power plant or what you pay including the fee for the network, taxes etc?

The Austrian nuclear power plant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwentendorf_Nuclear_Power_Plant - never went live.

Regarding the fish ladders: I guess the dams in Washington state are all huge, the area where I live and Austria in general is full of small privately owned power plants, I guess most in the 10kW to 50kW capacity range. For them fish ladders are often very difficult to integrate. There is anyways little option because if you don't build the fish ladder you have dismantle you power plant and build back the river to it's shape before the plant, which is often even more expensive.
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February 10, 2015, 04:26:35 AM
 #34

The 2 cents are what you get when you run the power plant or what you pay including the fee for the network, taxes etc?

That is what you pay as an industrial customer. I also guess fish ladders were planned for those plants from day one.

Regarding the fish ladders: I guess the dams in Washington state are all huge, the area where I live and Austria in general is full of small privately owned power plants, I guess most in the 10kW to 50kW capacity range. For them fish ladders are often very difficult to integrate. There is anyways little option because if you don't build the fish ladder you have dismantle you power plant and build back the river to it's shape before the plant, which is often even more expensive.

I've heard of that. It makes even less sense for cases where the river was diverted (not entirely) to the plant many decades ago. So the water to the plant is in a separate channel and the fish can go through the old river bed. But even those channels apparently are required to build fish ladders.  Huh

It's a pretty sad story - many power plants in Austria stand still because the ROI times for investing are >50 years.

I think if you can convince them to sell their power for 0.05 US cents or less, you'd find some interested people in this space.

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February 10, 2015, 05:04:55 AM
 #35

7 cents here is residential, that's Canadian, o 6 or 5 cents USD.

I've seen 4 or 5 for Business in bulk
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February 11, 2015, 02:08:50 AM
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@Polivka GmbH!!!!

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February 11, 2015, 07:18:13 AM
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@Polivka GmbH!!!!
Is this an Ant Castle?Huh  Any ants living in there yet?Huh

Any serious propositions? I am open for anything. Would love to fill up the shelf to the last square inch... 
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March 14, 2015, 01:25:03 PM
 #38

Pictures of this stocked? I'd want metal shelving rather than solid wood, every bit of air flow helps.

Love to see these full!

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March 14, 2015, 01:38:47 PM
 #39

Do you have any stats on the full setup?  Things like total container hashrate, internal/exhaust temps, decibel levels, miner stability when fully loaded container is sealed etc...

That would be most interesting.

Tired of substandard power distribution in your ASIC setup???   Chris' Custom Cablez will get you sorted out right!  No job too hard so PM me for a quote
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March 14, 2015, 01:44:41 PM
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Do you have any stats on the full setup?  Things like total container hashrate, internal/exhaust temps, decibel levels, miner stability when fully loaded container is sealed etc...

That would be most interesting.



Intake left, "cool" aisle atm: 13.81 degree centigrade
Intake right, "hot" aisle atm: 14.12 degree centigrade
exhaust left, "cool" aisle atm: 17.85 degree centigrade
exhaust right, "hot" aisle atm: 24.2 degree centigrade

Both of the fans are running in delta now - we want to try soon to let the left one spin in star mode, so there is some underpressure in the hot aisle which should prevent the miners blowing hot air over to the cold side.
Regarding decibel levels: I have measurement equipment, but the place is noisy anyways - so it's hard to tell what's causing the levels. It's granted that the miners are louder than the big fans.
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March 14, 2015, 02:17:50 PM
 #41

Awesome, thanks for the data.  Is there a rough estimate on your hashrate for that 120kW?  Just curious.

Keep up the great work.

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March 14, 2015, 02:31:56 PM
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Awesome, thanks for the data.  Is there a rough estimate on your hashrate for that 120kW?  Just curious.

Keep up the great work.

Sorry, I honestly don't know - you would have to ask my clients for that...

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March 14, 2015, 05:27:06 PM
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I'd definitely question the strength of the leg supports. What's the empty (no miners) weight of the fully-outfitted container? Adding 114x S5 to the mix will increase the weight by a good 900lb. Have you the engineering figures on the strength of the attachments, shear strength of the bolts and drilled-out tube?

Also, is there an option to run C20 cables instead of C14? If we're looking for space density, 2KW and 2.8KW PSUs (as well as SP30 and up) require C20 cables.

You forgot to add the weight of the operator inside. Somebody has to come in for maintenance once in a while and move around, which can change a lot in the distribution.
Also, with all the wires inside there's not much room left for a person.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swap_body You are allowed to put 16to inside that Smiley

Also the aisles are 90cm in width, which is sufficiently spacy even for bigger persons.
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April 02, 2015, 03:23:57 PM
 #44

Serious mining anyone?



We have a new, improved air intake layout, also we will be able to spin the fans at different speed so to create a lower pressure in the hot aisle.



As for the stilts: We had a licensed structural engineer engineer calculate the whole thing, nothing in the dimensions changed, we can put in up to 2 metric tons of payload at normal European wind speeds.
Customers can have a CE sign for that.

Thanks for your attention!
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April 20, 2015, 01:55:43 PM
 #45

Some pictures:

"Old" stilts design vs. new one (on the right):



Air outlet, with side walls to prevent the hot air from getting sucked to the air intake again:



Inside:



Hot aisle, faster running fan:



Cold aisle, slower running fan:



Letting the fans run at different speed functions really nice, you can feel a definite airflow from the cold aisle to the hot aisle over the whole shelf.
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April 20, 2015, 02:02:38 PM
 #46

You made quite a nice piece of gear. Too bad btc is down so much.

 This would be a perfect piece of gear for someone in Washington state USA power is under 5 cents. I would think the shipping to USA would be far too high.  I do wish good luck for your gear as It is well thought out.

I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net...
I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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April 20, 2015, 02:08:22 PM
 #47

You made quite a nice piece of gear. Too bad btc is down so much.

 This would be a perfect piece of gear for someone in Washington state USA power is under 5 cents. I would think the shipping to USA would be far too high.  I do wish good luck for your gear as It is well thought out.

If somebody wants to set up a (near) Washington State company producing this things with me - I'm all open for it. This is really by far the cheapest way to set up capacity and it works just perfect.
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April 20, 2015, 02:11:41 PM
 #48

If somebody wants to set up a (near) Washington State company producing this things with me - I'm all open for it. This is really by far the cheapest way to set up capacity and it works just perfect.

Now that would be a good idea.  That State is far and away the best state in the USA for power cost. Making those containers in the state  would be  really practical.

I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net...
I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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April 20, 2015, 08:03:39 PM
 #49

Now that would be a good idea.  That State is far and away the best state in the USA for power cost. Making those containers in the state  would be  really practical.

If they could manage to do a low priced version of one if these that would be interesting.  I could see people going in together to buy and splitting cost.  But it has to be a practical cost.  If it cost's to much it would lose all the benefit of cheap electricity.
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April 21, 2015, 01:57:21 AM
 #50

If they could manage to do a low priced version of one if these that would be interesting.  I could see people going in together to buy and splitting cost.  But it has to be a practical cost.  If it cost's to much it would lose all the benefit of cheap electricity.

The main cost is the container. If I'm not mistaken a used 20ft-er can be had from about 6k USD. The rest depends on how much time you can invest in doing it yourself and your skillset.

I'm glad to see that this project seems to move forward!

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April 21, 2015, 10:07:32 AM
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This is a brilliant concept.

It would be interesting to see how it develops.
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April 21, 2015, 10:31:31 AM
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The main cost is the container. If I'm not mistaken a used 20ft-er can be had from about 6k USD. The rest depends on how much time you can invest in doing it yourself and your skillset.

I'm glad to see that this project seems to move forward!

$6000 Huh  You must be buying new......  Roll Eyes

https://www.ebay.com/itm/20-ft-used-Shipping-Ocean-Container-Steel-Water-wind-tight-Storage-Chicago-/281662529790?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41946520fe

Most ports have PLENTY of used containers,in really good shape  Cool

Then get a flatbed to haul it for about $100-500 depending on how far you go with it.

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April 21, 2015, 10:58:28 AM
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$6000 Huh  You must be buying new......  Roll Eyes

https://www.ebay.com/itm/20-ft-used-Shipping-Ocean-Container-Steel-Water-wind-tight-Storage-Chicago-/281662529790?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41946520fe

Most ports have PLENTY of used containers,in really good shape  Cool

Then get a flatbed to haul it for about $100-500 depending on how far you go with it.

I thought it sounded a little high aswell.  I know I have seen used ones sold for storage for much less.

On new i have no idea how much it cost's it could be the 6k.   If you look at the one they showcase in front page they are wanting 18k for it.  I think it is very nice, but that is a lot of cash.   That is what I was referring to when I said I thought you could do a lower priced version.
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April 21, 2015, 11:00:35 AM
 #54

Yup, mixed up prices with new.

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April 21, 2015, 03:17:50 PM
 #55

The second hand containers you get to buy are usually the ones which the transport companies don't want anymore. Guess what - they really know about containers....
We used "new" ones for this - new meaning produced in far east, one time loaded and shipped to Europe.
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April 21, 2015, 03:50:37 PM
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The second hand containers you get to buy are usually the ones which the transport companies don't want anymore. Guess what - they really know about containers....
We used "new" ones for this - new meaning produced in far east, one time loaded and shipped to Europe.

I don't know if I would agree about this completely.  I worked for a big company that I did international transportation for the company. They made items that go world wide (i won't name company).  But they shipped on boats, trains, and semi's.   The biggest thing they cared about was size of container.  I help write some of the code we did not track containers uses.  And one use might take a big tole if treated wrong, and one use might not hurt it much at all.  So number of uses was not really important.

I would agree the ones sold are not brand new and near as clean/nice as what you are using.  But you could get a decent one not torn to heck.  I don't know prices as I never really cared to buy one.
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April 21, 2015, 11:53:50 PM
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I don't know if I would agree about this completely.  I worked for a big company that I did international transportation for the company. They made items that go world wide (i won't name company).  But they shipped on boats, trains, and semi's.   The biggest thing they cared about was size of container.  I help write some of the code we did not track containers uses.  And one use might take a big tole if treated wrong, and one use might not hurt it much at all.  So number of uses was not really important.

I would agree the ones sold are not brand new and near as clean/nice as what you are using.  But you could get a decent one not torn to heck.  I don't know prices as I never really cared to buy one.

Don't forget,in the US we don't ship out much but we import alot!!! So there's an ample supply of decent used containers in most any port  Wink

Go shopping guys!!!  Grin

I plan on building my house with USED containers BTW  Cool

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April 22, 2015, 01:07:29 AM
 #58

Don't forget,in the US we don't ship out much but we import alot!!! So there's an ample supply of decent used containers in most any port  Wink

Go shopping guys!!!  Grin

I plan on building my house with USED containers BTW  Cool

We did a tiny tiny bit of export of us.  Most was import as you said. And a surprising amount of US to US.  And we imported to a lot of other countries aswell.  But on containers our product was loaded and they sent it on a boat for a decent voyage.   These products were not time sensitive, so you just shipped them far enough in advance to cover demand.  But travel time was quite a bit on the boats.  

I can say I have worked with most of the big companies on shipping with containers, and if something is imputed wrong it is a huge pain.  Not all the companies use nice new software, so you are getting tons of legacy software tied into new software.

But yea container prices can be a lot less used.  With the big companies they have HUGE volume so they their price on containers is less then what a individual would get going to a company pumping out new ones.
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July 07, 2015, 09:41:27 AM
 #59

Just in front of the hydro power plant  Smiley

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January 18, 2017, 04:33:08 PM
 #60

Hey just thought I'd bump this for an update? How many container units did you make after and are they still operating?

I love the idea. I've been thinking about doing something similar lately.

What is the spec for your intake / exhaust fans?

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January 18, 2017, 04:47:23 PM
 #61

Another question came to mind. Since these units are portable and would sit outside, how would you pre-heat the miners if the unit was shut down in the winter? I understand you cannot start up miners if it's -20 degC outside and the miners are at that temperature. So you would need a way to preheat them would you not?

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January 20, 2017, 07:18:25 AM
 #62

Another question came to mind. Since these units are portable and would sit outside, how would you pre-heat the miners if the unit was shut down in the winter? I understand you cannot start up miners if it's -20 degC outside and the miners are at that temperature. So you would need a way to preheat them would you not?

Nope. Pre-heating miners is not a concern. You can leave the vents off for a minute, that will do Wink
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January 20, 2017, 05:39:23 PM
 #63

I have been told on other threads I should not start up my Antminers until it is close to or above 0 deg C. I could add an electric heater to start up before my controller starts up the miners I guess, and have the miners start after so much time has passed (enough time to warm up the miners).

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January 20, 2017, 08:29:37 PM
 #64

if it were really a concern adding 10-20 kilowatts of electric heaters for 10 or 20 mins before firing them up would fix it. be cheap to add i would think.
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January 21, 2017, 07:45:01 PM
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if it were really a concern adding 10-20 kilowatts of electric heaters for 10 or 20 mins before firing them up would fix it. be cheap to add i would think.

Yeah this is what I'm thinking as well Cheesy

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January 24, 2017, 07:23:00 PM
 #66

I have a concern with your design since there is no de-humidification, is there a risk that fog, rain or high moisture will end up in your miners and cause damage? It looks to me you have a simple exhaust fan set up creating negative pressure in the container and air is supplied through the bottom filters. This does not address potential moisture concerns?

Thanks for the help. Did you find a partner in NA to sell these units after? I live in Canada

There are no moisture concerns as long as you heat the incoming air. Even if the relative humidity is 100%, as soon as you heat it up with the absolute water content staying the same the relative humidity gets lower.
The only thing which would lead to a condensing condition on the miners would be a power outage at night, with the hardware cooling down and then the environment warming up faster than the hardware...

There is a company in Canada called KubeData which made a product called CryptoKube.
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January 24, 2017, 07:41:08 PM
 #67

There are no moisture concerns as long as you heat the incoming air. Even if the relative humidity is 100%, as soon as you heat it up with the absolute water content staying the same the relative humidity gets lower.
The only thing which would lead to a condensing condition on the miners would be a power outage at night, with the hardware cooling down and then the environment warming up faster than the hardware...

There is a company in Canada called KubeData which made a product called CryptoKube.

I went to both links but did not find where they are in located in canada exactly.
To ship one of those across the country would cost a couple of thousands. So it would help to know where they are operating out of and in which province they were be able to drop that container.
Thanks.

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January 24, 2017, 08:19:26 PM
 #68

Thanks for the info Polivka, intriguing stuff Smiley

CryptoKube has a cool set up, although too expensive. Doesn't appear to be selling them anymore Sad

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February 03, 2017, 06:02:10 PM
 #69

Polivka GmbH, I really like your idea of using shipping containers as data centers.

I wonder why you have chosen to pull and push air through the floor? I guess that you preferred water tightness over efficiency of the air movement & cooling. One could design an intake from the bottom of one side, then an air velocity through the miners and then an exhaust on the top of the other side. This design would be much better for hotter days. Rain could be managed with deflectors for intake and gravity flaps on exhaust fans for the other side.

Did you experienced troubles with water being sucked in or with leakage?
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February 07, 2017, 11:59:48 AM
 #70

Polivka GmbH, I really like your idea of using shipping containers as data centers.

I wonder why you have chosen to pull and push air through the floor? I guess that you preferred water tightness over efficiency of the air movement & cooling. One could design an intake from the bottom of one side, then an air velocity through the miners and then an exhaust on the top of the other side. This design would be much better for hotter days. Rain could be managed with deflectors for intake and gravity flaps on exhaust fans for the other side.

Did you experienced troubles with water being sucked in or with leakage?

No water sucked in - snow would be more prone to any ways, but also isn't a problem as long as you have filters.

This design also allows to integrate silencers, which you often need - depending on the place you put the container.
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February 09, 2017, 12:26:03 AM
 #71

Have you guys released updated versions with new hardware? or is it sold empty of miners?

Pretty slick. I like it Smiley
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February 12, 2017, 02:20:47 PM
 #72

Have you guys released updated versions with new hardware? or is it sold empty of miners?

Pretty slick. I like it Smiley

Customized and made to order.
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March 06, 2017, 02:44:30 PM
 #73

I have a concern with your design since there is no de-humidification, is there a risk that fog, rain or high moisture will end up in your miners and cause damage? It looks to me you have a simple exhaust fan set up creating negative pressure in the container and air is supplied through the bottom filters. This does not address potential moisture concerns?

Thanks for the help. Did you find a partner in NA to sell these units after? I live in Canada

Thanks for the info Polivka, intriguing stuff Smiley

CryptoKube has a cool set up, although too expensive. Doesn't appear to be selling them anymore Sad

I am wondering if you ship to the United States and how much would it cost to send from Austria.
Cause the person who asked you about this is right. That company doesn't sell them anymore that is close enough.
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March 08, 2017, 04:59:16 PM
 #74

I am wondering if you ship to the United States and how much would it cost to send from Austria.
Cause the person who asked you about this is right. That company doesn't sell them anymore that is close enough.

Shipping cost is not the issue - lead time probably is.
Also you guy's have completely different electrical standards in USA, I wouldn't even be able to buy a single component around here.
Shipping only the steel structure with the fans would be doable.
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May 03, 2017, 04:36:55 PM
 #75

Hi,

I have 3 slightly modified Container for sale.
At the moment they are located in Austria, powerprice there is 0,055€ per kwh (netto)
But they can also be transported to a new location easily.

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May 16, 2017, 11:47:19 AM
 #76

~up~



At the moment they are filled with A721,
but can be sold empty as well

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May 16, 2017, 11:12:18 PM
 #77

A few questions for ya:

  • How do they get internet, cellular modem?
  • What kind of theft prevention is in place? It's pretty easy to cut through a shipping container wall with the right tools, that's a lot of value a thief could easily grab in under 1 hour at night.
  • What happens if they are shut down in cold weather, how do you pre-heat them prior to re-start? How do you prevent them from getting too cold during a shut-down?

Pretty cool tho.
Thx

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May 16, 2017, 11:13:41 PM
 #78

Also what is the spec of the exhaust fans?

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May 20, 2017, 07:49:34 AM
 #79

A few questions for ya:

  • How do they get internet, cellular modem?
  • What kind of theft prevention is in place? It's pretty easy to cut through a shipping container wall with the right tools, that's a lot of value a thief could easily grab in under 1 hour at night.
  • What happens if they are shut down in cold weather, how do you pre-heat them prior to re-start? How do you prevent them from getting too cold during a shut-down?

Pretty cool tho.
Thx

1) Yes
2) It's also pretty easy to smash the window of a jeweler. Or cut into a house (at least in America...). Insurance makes you sleep better, insuring the contents of a shipping container is nothing new.
3) Can you point me to any posting that shows that any professional mine has heaters in place?

Also what is the spec of the exhaust fans?

First post. They changed in the meantime and got even stronger. Also I'm working on a 4 - Fan version right now, pretty excited about that Wink

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May 21, 2017, 08:32:23 AM
 #80

How many Bittmain AntMiner S9s would fit in one of these containers?

Also, why do some containers have a skirt on the bottom?

Run a Bitcoin node, support the network.
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May 21, 2017, 11:55:11 AM
 #81

How many Bittmain AntMiner S9s would fit in one of these containers?

Also, why do some containers have a skirt on the bottom?

Female container.........  Cheesy

"If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day long, you are the asshole."  -Raylan Givens
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May 22, 2017, 05:42:46 AM
 #82

3) Can you point me to any posting that shows that any professional mine has heaters in place?

No I can't. But the difference between mining in a warehouse and in a container is you will not have heat during a shut down. No problem in warm weather, but becomes a problem in cold weather, so just wondering how to design for that. Any ideas?

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May 22, 2017, 07:17:03 AM
 #83

No I can't. But the difference between mining in a warehouse and in a container is you will not have heat during a shut down. No problem in warm weather, but becomes a problem in cold weather, so just wondering how to design for that. Any ideas?

I suggest just not let it run again automatically if the weather is too cold if that's a concern. There is not much difference between a warehouse with it's whole side wall cut out and replaced with fans and a container btw.
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May 22, 2017, 08:28:26 AM
 #84

There was never a Problem with starting.
But I use Avalon, they always work Smiley

But if you are worried, easy fix:
install 10KW Avalon7, they will start, stop the fans, heat the container,
start the other miners. solved

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May 22, 2017, 11:27:39 AM
 #85

There was never a Problem with starting.
But I use Avalon, they always work Smiley

But if you are worried, easy fix:
install 10KW Avalon7, they will start, stop the fans, heat the container,
start the other miners. solved

Smart.

and to add to it have a few racks of pc mining with gpus

for preheating and diversification

I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net...
I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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May 23, 2017, 03:08:53 PM
 #86

Female container.........  Cheesy

Cheesy:D The color and material reminds me of butcher's apron.

I think they wanted cooler air inside the container. The cover makes the fans suck the air from right above the ground, where it's a bit cooler than 1m above.

There's only one thing that I'd change in this project. The brown color makes them go much hotter in the sun, so I'd use silver or chrome paint.


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May 23, 2017, 04:50:02 PM
 #87

Smart.

and to add to it have a few racks of pc mining with gpus

for preheating and diversification

I thought the Avalon 7's were also spec'd at an operating temp of 0 - 40 deg C? If true would it not be risky at firing up the miners at -20 deg C?

I know this is a very limited scenario, but it is a scenario I am also designing for. Since it might affect the use case of these containers I am curious to get help on optimal way to deal it it.

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May 23, 2017, 05:21:41 PM
 #88

I thought the Avalon 7's were also spec'd at an operating temp of 0 - 40 deg C? If true would it not be risky at firing up the miners at -20 deg C?

I know this is a very limited scenario, but it is a scenario I am also designing for. Since it might affect the use case of these containers I am curious to get help on optimal way to deal it it.


The Avalons will die just like any other miner if you try to start them in extreme cold.

It wouldnt be hard to plumb in a large heater that is only used in emergencies to heat up the container.

Stop buying industrial miners, running them at home, and then complaining about the noise.
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May 23, 2017, 06:24:41 PM
 #89

If the container has -20 degree, that means all miners stopped, something fucked up.
You want to take a look anyway. As fanatic26 wrote, take a heater with you.
But on how many days do you have -20.

And btw: I tested  aA741 at -12°C
No problems for me. But that is clearly out of operating temp!
So do it only on your own risk. I wanted to see what will happen.

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September 27, 2017, 09:38:42 AM
 #90

Hi,
I know I'm a bit late to the discussion but I was just wondering how many S9's you think could run in there (factoring in cfm, temp etc).
I am interested in possibly ordering one, do you have any newer / larger versions too or just this one? What is the base power consumption for the fans / power monitors or what ever is in there?
One more thing, do you have some sort of walk around video of inside so I can get a feel for the size and what it is like.
Thanks
- James
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September 28, 2017, 07:05:07 PM
 #91

Here in asic-minerworld.com you can find equipment for the most demanding miners. The prices are good. You can choose from the options offered the most appropriate. High quality products from well-known manufacturers.
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October 06, 2017, 12:22:56 PM
 #92

Hi,
I know I'm a bit late to the discussion but I was just wondering how many S9's you think could run in there (factoring in cfm, temp etc).
I am interested in possibly ordering one, do you have any newer / larger versions too or just this one? What is the base power consumption for the fans / power monitors or what ever is in there?
One more thing, do you have some sort of walk around video of inside so I can get a feel for the size and what it is like.
Thanks
- James

Hi,

 it fits roughly 100kW worth of S9's.

I have a 4-Fan version

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October 22, 2017, 11:57:21 PM
 #93

What would be the temperature inside if the outside temperature is 40C?
Would those miners survive?
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October 23, 2017, 09:38:39 AM
 #94

What would be the temperature inside if the outside temperature is 40C?
Would those miners survive?

Higher than 40C - that's the thing with outside air cooling Wink

You could use some evap cooling on the intake - however you need water supply and have added complexity. Where do you intend to mine?
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November 16, 2017, 10:57:34 PM
 #95

Hello Polivka,

I would be interested for an quite urgent order to deliver in Andorra. I could also be interested in the electricity prices in Austria.
Is there any way you could fit 100 S9 or 150 inside that container?
I've sent an email to you company directly as well,


Thanks

Etienne
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November 30, 2017, 08:42:24 PM
 #96

Hi,

 it fits roughly 100kW worth of S9's.

I have a 4-Fan version

[...]

The most beautiful thing I've seen in my life. Four fan version for absolute air circulation. I wonder what level of noise at the maximum speed of such huge fans?

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November 30, 2017, 09:52:11 PM
 #97

So far from reading the thread, I gained this amount of information.

You guys are based in Europe and can't deliver to the US/Canada due to electric regulations correct?
How much do these cost in Europe and how hard is it to just send one with European electrical design? What problems does this face?

If you were to move, or come here how much capital would be required to create a new one and start selling?
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December 01, 2017, 08:52:23 AM
 #98

The most beautiful thing I've seen in my life. Four fan version for absolute air circulation. I wonder what level of noise at the maximum speed of such huge fans?

Thanks for the flowers Smiley

It's not that loud, it's got silencers also Wink

So far from reading the thread, I gained this amount of information.

You guys are based in Europe and can't deliver to the US/Canada due to electric regulations correct?
How much do these cost in Europe and how hard is it to just send one with European electrical design? What problems does this face?

If you were to move, or come here how much capital would be required to create a new one and start selling?

You can have me as a consultant. Building a container in China, shipping it to some European harbour by sea, then to middle of Europe by truck to modify it and then to America simply doesn't make sense.

Please contact CryptoKube/KubeData.
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January 19, 2018, 03:52:45 PM
 #99

Did someone ever order them with 19" racks?

I wonder how many 4U cases i can fit and if the airflow is still decent...
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January 30, 2018, 01:09:29 AM
 #100

What is the actual base price of the container with 4 fans as of January 2018? Is there any estimate on shipping to Canada?
Polivka GmbH
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Hydromining!


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February 06, 2018, 10:31:49 AM
 #101

Did someone ever order them with 19" racks?

I wonder how many 4U cases i can fit and if the airflow is still decent...

How deep do they need to be?

What is the actual base price of the container with 4 fans as of January 2018? Is there any estimate on shipping to Canada?

Base price without electric distribution is 12 300 EUR, I basically only do ex works but can arrange shipping to the next container terminal (LINZ or ENNS).

Thanks
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February 06, 2018, 12:33:27 PM
Merited by jadefalke (10)
 #102

Is there a post at the german board aswell? Would be easier ^^

The cases are 69cm long, 3 delta fans pull the air through, optional 6 but i doubt 3 more will change much.

The magic question i guess is how to arrange them to use up space most efficiently and still keep them cool enough to mine...
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February 25, 2018, 02:38:20 PM
 #103

Base price without electric distribution is 12 300 EUR, I basically only do ex works but can arrange shipping to the next container terminal (LINZ or ENNS).

How much is the price with electricity?

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July 18, 2018, 05:59:20 PM
 #104

3) Can you point me to any posting that shows that any professional mine has heaters in place?

I have a conductive paint on heater that is easy to put on a piece of wallboard or the floor and put on a thermostat. 750Watts would keep the container up to temp even if miners go off for hours. You could set it up to alert when power up and set temp to reach running temp prior to bootup to protect units.

I make this stuff really cheap and all you need is a thermostat take up no space as you could mount it on a wall or in the floor. Temp control should not be difficult if you are dealing with wattage for mining already.

I am as I prove myself to be.
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July 18, 2018, 06:39:25 PM
 #105

re: ^^
The problem is not the miners just going offline -- it is the miners going offline because of a power outage. No power means electric heating would be useless.

For bitcoin to succeed the community must police itself - Joshua Zipkin aka Joshua Alexander leaked AMT A1 miner skype chats
How a miner mfgr SHOULD operate: HaggsFIN trip to Canaan My info useful? Donations welcome! 1Fuzzyk398kDWVjuC5qPX5v6CjSkvbgAbd
-Support Sidehacks miner development. Donations to:   1BURGERAXHH6Yi6LRybRJK7ybEm5m5HwTr
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