Money is an imaginary concept, but humanity is enslaved by it

[GreenStox]

Well the main challenge really is increasing the awareness of humans, but there are so many forces that benefit from having an ignorant population.  We have a bullshit education system that maintains that ignorance, where the values and grading system are almost upside down.  Look at a group of ultra successful people - it's interesting to see how many dropped out of school, likely because they didn't see value in it.  Even look at kids with ADHD.  They are usually totally obsessed with a few things in life, which are not mainstream, and that obsession allows them to be amazing at it.  Instead of seeing that talent, we start drugging them out at the age of 7 on ritalin and adderal because they don't give a shit about what their grade 2 teacher is writing on the blackboard??  That kid is the aware one.  Internet is helping a lot, as localized ignorance is being shed with exposure to other parts of the world that couldn't be accessed before.

Yea i agree, mental ilness, for the most part is a made up bullshit. We label them mentally ill just because they have a different world perspective. I mean an ant or an owl has a different world perspective but we dont lock them up in a white room...

Now of course there are dangerous psychotic people, but those are a minority, but these autistic people I dont think they are ill, they just have a different world view, which for obvious reasons the establishment doesnt like

With a conscious population, where humans are treated as humans and people don't segregate into national/racial/religious teams, there wouldn't be wars.  We're not there yet, but it's improving slowly.  Not too long ago, there were slaves and people were burned alive for "witchcraft".

I disagree, 50% of the population are just savages, i mean they can kill eachother over a football game, how more primitive-tribalish can you get after 2000 of years of supposed civilization?

I dont think you can ever get to those idiots, they will just remain the plague of society, then theres another 40% that are just conformists, they do what they are told, and not question authority, and the rest of the 10% are "enlightened" writers, philosophers, thinkers, the basic intelligent people that can drive humanity ahead.

So far society is organized in that way that those 10% drive humanity forward and the other 90% are just leeching on it.

Sociopaths are usually very charming.  But they lack the ability to feel or express genuine emotion.  People that communicate with emotion will feel a void there, and the rest won't suspect anything.

Doesnt matter, the conformist will always get fooled by them. They are the predators of humanity. Gizelles always get hunted by lions, the same way humans will always be hunted by our own predators. It's not like the gizelles have ever stand up agains the tyrrany of lions? 

Decentralization just goes back to reducing the size and power of government.  It's amazing how much money and resources go to the government when it's well understood that any government entity will be the least productive.

Yea but let's be honest, some leftists may say that libertarians and such dont care about the poor. And the truth is, that we actually don't. So let's be honest atleast and dont try to lie about it. Being poor in a free society is only because of ignorance.

Being poor today can be understood, but once we get rid of these vampires, there will be no more excuse to be poor because all opportunities will be opened then and only a lazy idiot would starve in that society.

[Dotakels]

Money can change people. Its influence are so great to people it can make people irresponsible and it can kill people that need money why? because people that need money are do anything to have a money even if he/she can kill a person to only have money.

[Erza]

Money can change people. Its influence are so great to people it can make people irresponsible and it can kill people that need money why? because people that need money are do anything to have a money even if he/she can kill a person to only have money.

Yeah its true that they will be irresponsible about what they do and they will be even go too far for this money, but the truth is not money that change their minds but the mind that is being manipulated by money. It makes their mind dont think clearly and make them do things randomly just to get what they want

[JuniorSv]

In most of the people's mind, money is a standard unit of value. Just like using meter to measure length and using kilogram to measure weight, people use money to measure value

You can't blame people for their stupidity! There is one thing that make us all who we are, the genetic mutation that made us a social predator... we will never change, unless we mutate to something else!

This is my solution to how to restore the damages we made to our planet

[freeyourmind]

Yea i agree, mental ilness, for the most part is a made up bullshit. We label them mentally ill just because they have a different world perspective. I mean an ant or an owl has a different world perspective but we dont lock them up in a white room...

Now of course there are dangerous psychotic people, but those are a minority, but these autistic people I dont think they are ill, they just have a different world view, which for obvious reasons the establishment doesnt like

Yeah it's even very interesting to see what type of drugs are marketed by society.

Psychedelics (psilocybin mushrooms, LSD, DMT, Ayahuasca, Peyote, etc.) = mind opening and illegal all over the world except for select tribes, not addictive
Stimulants (caffeine, cocaine, meth, MDMA, etc.) - of those MDMA is mind opening and illegal, but coffee which increases productivity of workers is completely fine, decently addictive
Opiates (oxycontin, herion, morphine, etc.) - mind and pain numbing, incredibly addictive - this is mostly prescribed by health professionals

Even look at what point does society acknowledge a sociopath?  These people usually have a terrible childhood and become apathetic just to get by, and until they commit some type of crime, there really isn't any help.  Even then, they become victim to the legal system and police, who are unable to help anyone with mental illness.

I disagree, 50% of the population are just savages, i mean they can kill eachother over a football game, how more primitive-tribalish can you get after 2000 of years of supposed civilization?

I dont think you can ever get to those idiots, they will just remain the plague of society, then theres another 40% that are just conformists, they do what they are told, and not question authority, and the rest of the 10% are "enlightened" writers, philosophers, thinkers, the basic intelligent people that can drive humanity ahead.

So far society is organized in that way that those 10% drive humanity forward and the other 90% are just leeching on it.

There are lots of savages, I'd guess less than 50% of the population though lol.  For the most part these are kids that grow up without love, and then turn into insecure adults, overcompensated with aggression.  It's very odd to see unreasonable aggression from a man who was loved and accepted by his father.  Without good parenting and love, there needs to be some type of therapy (doesn't have to be in the typical sense with a psychotherapist) to acknowledge traumatic events and reconcile.  It's a very difficult process for most people, but anyone can do it, it just requires more awareness and a different perspective.  Some are just unwilling to do that.

Doesnt matter, the conformist will always get fooled by them. They are the predators of humanity. Gizelles always get hunted by lions, the same way humans will always be hunted by our own predators. It's not like the gizelles have ever stand up agains the tyrrany of lions? 

Yes, agreed.  The gazelles are just stupid, similar to our unconscious population.  With some awareness of the power they hold (which is power in numbers), the 300 gazelles wouldn't need to run from 5 lions.  But instead of awareness, they just have a fear reaction and it's every gazelle for themselves, and one of the little shits that twisted its ankle becomes lunch and none of the other gazelles give a shit.  On the flip side, look at the species of ants.  They work as a single unit for the greater good, and a single ant will give it's life for the rest to prosper.  So in that respect, ants don't need to run from say a spider that is 200X its size.

Yea but let's be honest, some leftists may say that libertarians and such dont care about the poor. And the truth is, that we actually don't. So let's be honest atleast and dont try to lie about it. Being poor in a free society is only because of ignorance.

Being poor today can be understood, but once we get rid of these vampires, there will be no more excuse to be poor because all opportunities will be opened then and only a lazy idiot would starve in that society.

Well empathy is required to care about those that suffer.  Although there are empathetic individuals, society as a whole is not empathetic yet.  Current society definitely doesn't care about the poor, so criticizing libertarians of the same thing is really a mute point.

Well put on the second point.  Once you remove obstacles that are largely implemented by the government, then the political job is done, and it's up to the individual to seize the opportunity and contribute to society.

[BobK71]

Actually nowadays people have the right to elect the government, however they don't have the right to elect central bank, therefore central bank is called dictatorship by some protesters

The interesting thing is, this dictatorship is not enforced by violence, but by ignorance and no knowledge about money creation. People can think it is important to select a government that supports gay marriage, while they don't think it is important to select a central bank without printing more money (thus they become the slave)

Central bank only need to setup a Nobel price of economics and tell people: If they don't print money then economy will fall into recession.  Then people will accept it. Money creation is a topic that is too far from average Joe's life, and although long term wise he is affected by it, in a couple of years' time frame he will not feel any difference between two different monetary policy

The central bank will never be elected, right or wrong. 

The defining feature of this system is a grand alliance between the political and financial elites to jointly take wealth from everyone else by issuing financial assets and using public power to prop up their values.  Since these two groups don't trust each other, central banks are set up to institutionalize the terms of the alliance, to keep everyone honest.

If the central bank were fully elected, it might give in to populist instincts of every politician: refusing to bail banks out or to guarantee bank debt, for example.  Or it could indulge the government by allowing it to issue unlimited debt and endanger the whole system.  It's also not unheard of for governments to seize bank assets outright.

If no banker could be found to want to enter into this public/private partnership, the whole system would be seriously limited in scope, if not jeopardized.  The government needs the financial savvy of bankers to dream up assets that investors might believe in (however temporarily), and base them on government-issued assets (money and public debt), both to protect and to greatly increase the demand for those state assets.

The central bank also restrains bankers by regulating them and deciding to bail out or abandon a bank in trouble.

Of course, the very success of this system encourages the buildup of financial assets and eventually the weight of the buildup will break investor confidence, one way or another.  Major busts with serious consequences for the core country (US) happened just before the Great Depression and in 2008.

[twiifm]

Yea but let's be honest, some leftists may say that libertarians and such dont care about the poor. And the truth is, that we actually don't. So let's be honest atleast and dont try to lie about it. Being poor in a free society is only because of ignorance.

Being poor today can be understood, but once we get rid of these vampires, there will be no more excuse to be poor because all opportunities will be opened then and only a lazy idiot would starve in that society.

Spoken like a true douchebag

[oblivi]

Well the main challenge really is increasing the awareness of humans, but there are so many forces that benefit from having an ignorant population.  We have a bullshit education system that maintains that ignorance, where the values and grading system are almost upside down.  Look at a group of ultra successful people - it's interesting to see how many dropped out of school, likely because they didn't see value in it.  Even look at kids with ADHD.  They are usually totally obsessed with a few things in life, which are not mainstream, and that obsession allows them to be amazing at it.  Instead of seeing that talent, we start drugging them out at the age of 7 on ritalin and adderal because they don't give a shit about what their grade 2 teacher is writing on the blackboard??  That kid is the aware one.  Internet is helping a lot, as localized ignorance is being shed with exposure to other parts of the world that couldn't be accessed before.

Yea i agree, mental ilness, for the most part is a made up bullshit. We label them mentally ill just because they have a different world perspective. I mean an ant or an owl has a different world perspective but we dont lock them up in a white room...

Now of course there are dangerous psychotic people, but those are a minority, but these autistic people I dont think they are ill, they just have a different world view, which for obvious reasons the establishment doesnt like

With a conscious population, where humans are treated as humans and people don't segregate into national/racial/religious teams, there wouldn't be wars.  We're not there yet, but it's improving slowly.  Not too long ago, there were slaves and people were burned alive for "witchcraft".

I disagree, 50% of the population are just savages, i mean they can kill eachother over a football game, how more primitive-tribalish can you get after 2000 of years of supposed civilization?

I dont think you can ever get to those idiots, they will just remain the plague of society, then theres another 40% that are just conformists, they do what they are told, and not question authority, and the rest of the 10% are "enlightened" writers, philosophers, thinkers, the basic intelligent people that can drive humanity ahead.

So far society is organized in that way that those 10% drive humanity forward and the other 90% are just leeching on it.

Sociopaths are usually very charming.  But they lack the ability to feel or express genuine emotion.  People that communicate with emotion will feel a void there, and the rest won't suspect anything.

Doesnt matter, the conformist will always get fooled by them. They are the predators of humanity. Gizelles always get hunted by lions, the same way humans will always be hunted by our own predators. It's not like the gizelles have ever stand up agains the tyrrany of lions? 

Decentralization just goes back to reducing the size and power of government.  It's amazing how much money and resources go to the government when it's well understood that any government entity will be the least productive.

Yea but let's be honest, some leftists may say that libertarians and such dont care about the poor. And the truth is, that we actually don't. So let's be honest atleast and dont try to lie about it. Being poor in a free society is only because of ignorance.

Being poor today can be understood, but once we get rid of these vampires, there will be no more excuse to be poor because all opportunities will be opened then and only a lazy idiot would starve in that society.

All of your reasoning is based around the assumption that physical determinism isn't true. If physical determinism ever got proven, the whole system would basically collapse, since it basically means there is no such thing as free will.

The thing, it's extremely naive and a coping mechanism, to think we have 100% free will. Someone born in a shitty place with no money and average genetics is most likely going to be stuck on their economical class for life, statistically it's a fact. If you get paid low and you can't barely make any savings because it goes to basic expenses such as food, electricity, etc, you are fucked and destined to remain poor. Thinking otherwise is just self delusion to sleep better at night.

[freeyourmind]

Well the main challenge really is increasing the awareness of humans, but there are so many forces that benefit from having an ignorant population.  We have a bullshit education system that maintains that ignorance, where the values and grading system are almost upside down.  Look at a group of ultra successful people - it's interesting to see how many dropped out of school, likely because they didn't see value in it.  Even look at kids with ADHD.  They are usually totally obsessed with a few things in life, which are not mainstream, and that obsession allows them to be amazing at it.  Instead of seeing that talent, we start drugging them out at the age of 7 on ritalin and adderal because they don't give a shit about what their grade 2 teacher is writing on the blackboard??  That kid is the aware one.  Internet is helping a lot, as localized ignorance is being shed with exposure to other parts of the world that couldn't be accessed before.

Yea i agree, mental ilness, for the most part is a made up bullshit. We label them mentally ill just because they have a different world perspective. I mean an ant or an owl has a different world perspective but we dont lock them up in a white room...

Now of course there are dangerous psychotic people, but those are a minority, but these autistic people I dont think they are ill, they just have a different world view, which for obvious reasons the establishment doesnt like

With a conscious population, where humans are treated as humans and people don't segregate into national/racial/religious teams, there wouldn't be wars.  We're not there yet, but it's improving slowly.  Not too long ago, there were slaves and people were burned alive for "witchcraft".

I disagree, 50% of the population are just savages, i mean they can kill eachother over a football game, how more primitive-tribalish can you get after 2000 of years of supposed civilization?

I dont think you can ever get to those idiots, they will just remain the plague of society, then theres another 40% that are just conformists, they do what they are told, and not question authority, and the rest of the 10% are "enlightened" writers, philosophers, thinkers, the basic intelligent people that can drive humanity ahead.

So far society is organized in that way that those 10% drive humanity forward and the other 90% are just leeching on it.

Sociopaths are usually very charming.  But they lack the ability to feel or express genuine emotion.  People that communicate with emotion will feel a void there, and the rest won't suspect anything.

Doesnt matter, the conformist will always get fooled by them. They are the predators of humanity. Gizelles always get hunted by lions, the same way humans will always be hunted by our own predators. It's not like the gizelles have ever stand up agains the tyrrany of lions? 

Decentralization just goes back to reducing the size and power of government.  It's amazing how much money and resources go to the government when it's well understood that any government entity will be the least productive.

Yea but let's be honest, some leftists may say that libertarians and such dont care about the poor. And the truth is, that we actually don't. So let's be honest atleast and dont try to lie about it. Being poor in a free society is only because of ignorance.

Being poor today can be understood, but once we get rid of these vampires, there will be no more excuse to be poor because all opportunities will be opened then and only a lazy idiot would starve in that society.

All of your reasoning is based around the assumption that physical determinism isn't true. If physical determinism ever got proven, the whole system would basically collapse, since it basically means there is no such thing as free will.

The thing, it's extremely naive and a coping mechanism, to think we have 100% free will. Someone born in a shitty place with no money and average genetics is most likely going to be stuck on their economical class for life, statistically it's a fact. If you get paid low and you can't barely make any savings because it goes to basic expenses such as food, electricity, etc, you are fucked and destined to remain poor. Thinking otherwise is just self delusion to sleep better at night.

Well with or without free will, the decisions you make are impacted by genetics and the environment that you're in.  Without free will, it is pure cause and effect.  So what we are talking about really is the environment, which will impact the decisions that everyone makes.

Think about how heavily conditioned kids are - from their parents, family, friends, from their school system, from media and advertising.  If we don't have free will and are just a distant echo of the big bang, wouldn't it be beneficial to back off on the intense conditioning?  With or without free will it will still change society.

So given the importance of the environment we are in, how does our current monetary system and government affect our environment?  Are resources distributed appropriately?  Do the most intelligent and benevolent and selfless people become leaders?  Not really.  But of the infinite possibilities, there is an environment where it would be so.

[johnyj]

Actually nowadays people have the right to elect the government, however they don't have the right to elect central bank, therefore central bank is called dictatorship by some protesters

The interesting thing is, this dictatorship is not enforced by violence, but by ignorance and no knowledge about money creation. People can think it is important to select a government that supports gay marriage, while they don't think it is important to select a central bank without printing more money (thus they become the slave)

Central bank only need to setup a Nobel price of economics and tell people: If they don't print money then economy will fall into recession.  Then people will accept it. Money creation is a topic that is too far from average Joe's life, and although long term wise he is affected by it, in a couple of years' time frame he will not feel any difference between two different monetary policy

The central bank will never be elected, right or wrong.  

The defining feature of this system is a grand alliance between the political and financial elites to jointly take wealth from everyone else by issuing financial assets and using public power to prop up their values.  Since these two groups don't trust each other, central banks are set up to institutionalize the terms of the alliance, to keep everyone honest.

If the central bank were fully elected, it might give in to populist instincts of every politician: refusing to bail banks out or to guarantee bank debt, for example.  Or it could indulge the government by allowing it to issue unlimited debt and endanger the whole system.  It's also not unheard of for governments to seize bank assets outright.

If no banker could be found to want to enter into this public/private partnership, the whole system would be seriously limited in scope, if not jeopardized.  The government needs the financial savvy of bankers to dream up assets that investors might believe in (however temporarily), and base them on government-issued assets (money and public debt), both to protect and to greatly increase the demand for those state assets.

The central bank also restrains bankers by regulating them and deciding to bail out or abandon a bank in trouble.

Of course, the very success of this system encourages the buildup of financial assets and eventually the weight of the buildup will break investor confidence, one way or another.  Major busts with serious consequences for the core country (US) happened just before the Great Depression and in 2008.

Those so called financial assets are just a scam to rob average people off their money, when majority of the people were robbed, there will be depression and recession. But now when money can be created out of nothing at will, banks don't need to do this kind of scam any more, they can raise those financial assets' value forever using money out of thin air. And as long as people are still using fiat money to measure value, that game can last forever

There is a live show of central bank election: Greece crisis. Greece must decide if they still honor ECB to be their central bank, or they can say bye bye to ECB and setup their own central bank. The Greek people did not elect their central bank, but they elected a government who might be capable of setting up a new central bank thus totally reset the whole system

My guess is that ECB will never let them go. Print tons of euro and give it to Greece is much easier than set them free and become financially independent. However, ECB will never gain anything from enslaving Greece: They are so cunning that they just default  

If Greece are set free from ECB's control, they will be as good as heaven, then everyone will understand what is the root cause of Greece's problem

[johnyj]

This thread has become so interesting now when many other aspects like politics and psychology have entered the discussion. I tends to believe the enlightening of the knowledge of money is the way to a more just society, and with the help of internet, human are much better positioned than 300 years ago, when John Law first designed his fiat money system and failed

[GreenStox]

Yeah it's even very interesting to see what type of drugs are marketed by society.

Psychedelics (psilocybin mushrooms, LSD, DMT, Ayahuasca, Peyote, etc.) = mind opening and illegal all over the world except for select tribes, not addictive
Stimulants (caffeine, cocaine, meth, MDMA, etc.) - of those MDMA is mind opening and illegal, but coffee which increases productivity of workers is completely fine, decently addictive
Opiates (oxycontin, herion, morphine, etc.) - mind and pain numbing, incredibly addictive - this is mostly prescribed by health professionals

Even look at what point does society acknowledge a sociopath?  These people usually have a terrible childhood and become apathetic just to get by, and until they commit some type of crime, there really isn't any help.  Even then, they become victim to the legal system and police, who are unable to help anyone with mental illness.

Yes thats true, so make people smoke and drink but thats ok, but not the others. I think it will be legalized in the next 10-20 years there is just no way they can stall this much longer.

Of course the main obstacle is the church, most ultrareligious people just condemn it without even analyzing it. And there was no separation of church and state, its still the same entity in 90% of the countries.

There are lots of savages, I'd guess less than 50% of the population though lol.  For the most part these are kids that grow up without love, and then turn into insecure adults, overcompensated with aggression.  It's very odd to see unreasonable aggression from a man who was loved and accepted by his father.  Without good parenting and love, there needs to be some type of therapy (doesn't have to be in the typical sense with a psychotherapist) to acknowledge traumatic events and reconcile.  It's a very difficult process for most people, but anyone can do it, it just requires more awareness and a different perspective.  Some are just unwilling to do that.

Well its getting worse and worse, most males are without job, due to our magnificent money printing economy. And then obviously they will beat their wives and kids because of desperation. Some people are just too "alpha" and without a proper enviroment they go crazy.

And we wont see any improvement in that any time soon, as the economy will get only worse.

Yes, agreed.  The gazelles are just stupid, similar to our unconscious population.  With some awareness of the power they hold (which is power in numbers), the 300 gazelles wouldn't need to run from 5 lions.  But instead of awareness, they just have a fear reaction and it's every gazelle for themselves, and one of the little shits that twisted its ankle becomes lunch and none of the other gazelles give a shit.  On the flip side, look at the species of ants.  They work as a single unit for the greater good, and a single ant will give it's life for the rest to prosper.  So in that respect, ants don't need to run from say a spider that is 200X its size.

Yes but most animals are driven by instincts, and if that instinct is not made for survival then they will perish. Ants were evolved to be a collectivist society, the individual ant is easily sacrificed to hunt down a spider for the greater good.

Collectivism however is evil and its not good for people, there is no common good in humans, except survival, everything else is subjective.

Well empathy is required to care about those that suffer.  Although there are empathetic individuals, society as a whole is not empathetic yet.  Current society definitely doesn't care about the poor, so criticizing libertarians of the same thing is really a mute point.

Well put on the second point.  Once you remove obstacles that are largely implemented by the government, then the political job is done, and it's up to the individual to seize the opportunity and contribute to society.

No but really, i can understand why people are desperate in this tyranical society. But in a free society they would not have any excuses.

The fact that you cannot open your own restaurant chain because you require a 10m $ license from your slavemasters is a big obstacle, but in a free society everybody could do that. So a poor guy in a free society is only his own fault, whereas now its the governments fault.

[GreenStox]

Well with or without free will, the decisions you make are impacted by genetics and the environment that you're in.  Without free will, it is pure cause and effect.  So what we are talking about really is the environment, which will impact the decisions that everyone makes.

Think about how heavily conditioned kids are - from their parents, family, friends, from their school system, from media and advertising.  If we don't have free will and are just a distant echo of the big bang, wouldn't it be beneficial to back off on the intense conditioning?  With or without free will it will still change society.

So given the importance of the environment we are in, how does our current monetary system and government affect our environment?  Are resources distributed appropriately?  Do the most intelligent and benevolent and selfless people become leaders?  Not really.  But of the infinite possibilities, there is an environment where it would be so.

I`m very sure determinism is not true. Because if determinism were true then you will have to ask who/what is determining things.

Some God is playing around with humans as their toys attached on strings. Whats the point of that?

Free will must be true otherwise nothing would make sense.

[deisik]

Well the main challenge really is increasing the awareness of humans, but there are so many forces that benefit from having an ignorant population.  We have a bullshit education system that maintains that ignorance, where the values and grading system are almost upside down.  Look at a group of ultra successful people - it's interesting to see how many dropped out of school, likely because they didn't see value in it.

I'm afraid this won't work. If you somehow increase the awareness of humans at large, this should also increase the cunning of your "sociopaths" and their skills at fooling the general populace. So, in the end, we will most likely have absolutely the same result as we have today...

[GreenStox]

Well the main challenge really is increasing the awareness of humans, but there are so many forces that benefit from having an ignorant population.  We have a bullshit education system that maintains that ignorance, where the values and grading system are almost upside down.  Look at a group of ultra successful people - it's interesting to see how many dropped out of school, likely because they didn't see value in it.

I'm afraid this won't work. If you somehow increase the awareness of humans at large, this should also increase the cunning of your "sociopaths" and their skills at fooling the general populace. So, in the end, we will most likely have absolutely the same result as we have today...

Thats nonsense, the sociopaths already control everything and they are already very cunning.

But if you make your average savage trendy leftist a well informed and peaceful person, then you (on average) increased the wisdom and understanding of the average people.

Now they will still fall for some smaller scams: psychics, alternative medicine, sorcerers and other frauds, but they wont fall for the bigger scams: democracy, voting and state.

[oblivi]

Well the main challenge really is increasing the awareness of humans, but there are so many forces that benefit from having an ignorant population.  We have a bullshit education system that maintains that ignorance, where the values and grading system are almost upside down.  Look at a group of ultra successful people - it's interesting to see how many dropped out of school, likely because they didn't see value in it.  Even look at kids with ADHD.  They are usually totally obsessed with a few things in life, which are not mainstream, and that obsession allows them to be amazing at it.  Instead of seeing that talent, we start drugging them out at the age of 7 on ritalin and adderal because they don't give a shit about what their grade 2 teacher is writing on the blackboard??  That kid is the aware one.  Internet is helping a lot, as localized ignorance is being shed with exposure to other parts of the world that couldn't be accessed before.

Yea i agree, mental ilness, for the most part is a made up bullshit. We label them mentally ill just because they have a different world perspective. I mean an ant or an owl has a different world perspective but we dont lock them up in a white room...

Now of course there are dangerous psychotic people, but those are a minority, but these autistic people I dont think they are ill, they just have a different world view, which for obvious reasons the establishment doesnt like

With a conscious population, where humans are treated as humans and people don't segregate into national/racial/religious teams, there wouldn't be wars.  We're not there yet, but it's improving slowly.  Not too long ago, there were slaves and people were burned alive for "witchcraft".

I disagree, 50% of the population are just savages, i mean they can kill eachother over a football game, how more primitive-tribalish can you get after 2000 of years of supposed civilization?

I dont think you can ever get to those idiots, they will just remain the plague of society, then theres another 40% that are just conformists, they do what they are told, and not question authority, and the rest of the 10% are "enlightened" writers, philosophers, thinkers, the basic intelligent people that can drive humanity ahead.

So far society is organized in that way that those 10% drive humanity forward and the other 90% are just leeching on it.

Sociopaths are usually very charming.  But they lack the ability to feel or express genuine emotion.  People that communicate with emotion will feel a void there, and the rest won't suspect anything.

Doesnt matter, the conformist will always get fooled by them. They are the predators of humanity. Gizelles always get hunted by lions, the same way humans will always be hunted by our own predators. It's not like the gizelles have ever stand up agains the tyrrany of lions? 

Decentralization just goes back to reducing the size and power of government.  It's amazing how much money and resources go to the government when it's well understood that any government entity will be the least productive.

Yea but let's be honest, some leftists may say that libertarians and such dont care about the poor. And the truth is, that we actually don't. So let's be honest atleast and dont try to lie about it. Being poor in a free society is only because of ignorance.

Being poor today can be understood, but once we get rid of these vampires, there will be no more excuse to be poor because all opportunities will be opened then and only a lazy idiot would starve in that society.

All of your reasoning is based around the assumption that physical determinism isn't true. If physical determinism ever got proven, the whole system would basically collapse, since it basically means there is no such thing as free will.

The thing, it's extremely naive and a coping mechanism, to think we have 100% free will. Someone born in a shitty place with no money and average genetics is most likely going to be stuck on their economical class for life, statistically it's a fact. If you get paid low and you can't barely make any savings because it goes to basic expenses such as food, electricity, etc, you are fucked and destined to remain poor. Thinking otherwise is just self delusion to sleep better at night.

Well with or without free will, the decisions you make are impacted by genetics and the environment that you're in.  Without free will, it is pure cause and effect.  So what we are talking about really is the environment, which will impact the decisions that everyone makes.

Think about how heavily conditioned kids are - from their parents, family, friends, from their school system, from media and advertising.  If we don't have free will and are just a distant echo of the big bang, wouldn't it be beneficial to back off on the intense conditioning?  With or without free will it will still change society.

So given the importance of the environment we are in, how does our current monetary system and government affect our environment?  Are resources distributed appropriately?  Do the most intelligent and benevolent and selfless people become leaders?  Not really.  But of the infinite possibilities, there is an environment where it would be so.

If we take the premise of the environment being everything as the source of the outcome, it wouldn't matter because genetics would dictate how you react to said environment, which means that if you try to change the environment it was because your genetics allowed to do so, therefore rendering free will irrelevant as we know it.

[GreenStox]

If we take the premise of the environment being everything as the source of the outcome, it wouldn't matter because genetics would dictate how you react to said environment, which means that if you try to change the environment it was because your genetics allowed to do so, therefore rendering free will irrelevant as we know it.

I`ve heard that argument before, i`m not sure where but i think a philosopher said this once:
"The enviroment creates the organism and the organisms shape the enviroment"

It can be interpreted as a hybrid form of free and non-free will. I dont think its a black and white situation. Although i still think free will is as it is free, but even if you think otherwise, the mere thing that the enviroment is shaped (wind makes the mountain erosion, or ocean makes the beach) its still in some sense the organism having free will to shape the enviroment.

Therefore doesnt matter what perspective you look in from: Free will is valid in all cases.

[johnyj]

Well the main challenge really is increasing the awareness of humans, but there are so many forces that benefit from having an ignorant population.  We have a bullshit education system that maintains that ignorance, where the values and grading system are almost upside down.  Look at a group of ultra successful people - it's interesting to see how many dropped out of school, likely because they didn't see value in it.

I'm afraid this won't work. If you somehow increase the awareness of humans at large, this should also increase the cunning of your "sociopaths" and their skills at fooling the general populace. So, in the end, we will most likely have absolutely the same result as we have today...

Great point! That's the reason I don't really believe in totally free market, since the rule of "winner takes it all" applies not only to power, but also to intelligence. In a totally free market, the less intelligent people will become the slaves no matter how hard they work/think

And awareness can only reach certain level. Today's financial system is too complicated for normal people to understand, I have met several professors from different economy school, almost none of them really understand the essential of the fiat money system

So a better solution is to give people choice: People have the freedom to select whatever monetary system they like, so that if one system is total slavery, the opposite system might be the way to total freedom. No matter how rosy picture the central banks paint about their fiat money, if people using bitcoin get much better life, then the fiat money will get less and less attractive

If people have tried both alternatives and none of the choices will give them freedom, then most likely the problem is not located at the monetary system, but some other area. But at least they can give it a try for an alternative system, and I doubt most of the social problem is caused by fiat money, since it involves action of crime: Stealing and robbery, at GDP scale

[GreenStox]

Great point! That's the reason I don't really believe in totally free market, since the rule of "winner takes it all" applies not only to power, but also to intelligence. In a totally free market, the less intelligent people will become the slaves no matter how hard they work/think

And awareness can only reach certain level. Today's financial system is too complicated for normal people to understand, I have met several professors from different economy school, almost none of them really understand the essential of the fiat money system

So a better solution is to give people choice: People have the freedom to select whatever monetary system they like, so that if one system is total slavery, the opposite system might be the way to total freedom. No matter how rosy picture the central banks paint about their fiat money, if people using bitcoin get much better life, then the fiat money will get less and less attractive

If people have tried both alternatives and none of the choices will give them freedom, then most likely the problem is not located at the monetary system, but some other area. But at least they can give it a try for an alternative system, and I doubt most of the social problem is caused by fiat money, since it involves action of crime: Stealing and robbery, at GDP scale

HOW IS THAT NOT A FREE MARKET? Wtf are you talking about.

That is exactly the definiteion of free market. People voluntarly choosing between the products and services they want to use.

If 1 product turns out to be a scam they can embargo and boycott it.

If you introduce a regulator into the market then that itself will take advantage of it, as its much easier to corrupt the regulator than the market itself. Easier to pay off 1 state bureocrat than 10000000 customers dont you think?

Please rethink your logic, because its nonsense.

[johnyj]

Great point! That's the reason I don't really believe in totally free market, since the rule of "winner takes it all" applies not only to power, but also to intelligence. In a totally free market, the less intelligent people will become the slaves no matter how hard they work/think

And awareness can only reach certain level. Today's financial system is too complicated for normal people to understand, I have met several professors from different economy school, almost none of them really understand the essential of the fiat money system

So a better solution is to give people choice: People have the freedom to select whatever monetary system they like, so that if one system is total slavery, the opposite system might be the way to total freedom. No matter how rosy picture the central banks paint about their fiat money, if people using bitcoin get much better life, then the fiat money will get less and less attractive

If people have tried both alternatives and none of the choices will give them freedom, then most likely the problem is not located at the monetary system, but some other area. But at least they can give it a try for an alternative system, and I doubt most of the social problem is caused by fiat money, since it involves action of crime: Stealing and robbery, at GDP scale

HOW IS THAT NOT A FREE MARKET? Wtf are you talking about.

That is exactly the definiteion of free market. People voluntarly choosing between the products and services they want to use.

If 1 product turns out to be a scam they can embargo and boycott it.

If you introduce a regulator into the market then that itself will take advantage of it, as its much easier to corrupt the regulator than the market itself. Easier to pay off 1 state bureocrat than 10000000 customers dont you think?

Please rethink your logic, because its nonsense.

I understand your point, and if people really select bitcoin, it will be like the free market as you described. But the reality is that average people still don't choose bitcoin, maybe never will, because of the fiat money's domination in people's life: As long as they unconsciously use fiat money to measure value, it means fiat money is already rooted deeply in their thoughts. The free competition phase has already passed long time ago

And now when fiat money is dominating, it will use all the possible tools to crash the bitcoin if it ever becomes some kind of threat, currently banks don't care since bitcoin is just too small