Money is an imaginary concept, but humanity is enslaved by it

[GreenStox]

I pay 6-7%  comission on everything I buy, that is 3-4% to Mastercard, 2% to the bank and another 1% sometimes the merchant to validate the transaction, so sometimes it can be even 10% (+ 25% VAT of course as the government likes to steal too).

1)  You, as the cardholder, pay Mastercard a commission when you make a purchase?

2)   Is that normal in your country?

3) In North America, I haven't heard of a credit card that charges the cardholder unless they have a running balance - but that is an interest charge rather than a commission.  The vendor pays the commission here.

1) Yes, they are thieves, I also had a Visa Card a few years ago, and it was the same, so its the same there too

2) I guess so, nobody complained so far, I must be pretty enlightened to realize what a global scam this is?

3) I`m using debit card not credit card (not really buying into the global credit ponzi scheme), but whatever, its still a fucking ripoff.

Not to mention 25% VAT from the government, I love those thieves too.

[chmod755]

Humanity decided to live by the rules of capitalism.

Who would've made inventions like the internet or Bitcoin if we lived like animals?

[freeyourmind]

I pay 6-7%  comission on everything I buy, that is 3-4% to Mastercard, 2% to the bank and another 1% sometimes the merchant to validate the transaction, so sometimes it can be even 10% (+ 25% VAT of course as the government likes to steal too).

1)  You, as the cardholder, pay Mastercard a commission when you make a purchase?

2)   Is that normal in your country?

3) In North America, I haven't heard of a credit card that charges the cardholder unless they have a running balance - but that is an interest charge rather than a commission.  The vendor pays the commission here.

1) Yes, they are thieves, I also had a Visa Card a few years ago, and it was the same, so its the same there too

2) I guess so, nobody complained so far, I must be pretty enlightened to realize what a global scam this is?

3) I`m using debit card not credit card (not really buying into the global credit ponzi scheme), but whatever, its still a fucking ripoff.

Not to mention 25% VAT from the government, I love those thieves too.

Weird man.  What country are you in?

Here, not only is there no commission to pay for the cardholder, there are rewards programs for using it, including cash back.  So a lot of people including myself, use the credit card for almost every purchase, then pay off the balance, and receive the cash back without having any fees.

It does suck for the vendor, as they pay ~3% commission, but there usually isn't a difference in price based on method of payment, so credit card it is.

Debt spending is also largely encouraged here.  For those that don't pay the balance, it's like 18%+ interest charged.

[GreenStox]

Weird man.  What country are you in?

Here, not only is there no commission to pay for the cardholder, there are rewards programs for using it, including cash back.  So a lot of people including myself, use the credit card for almost every purchase, then pay off the balance, and receive the cash back without having any fees.

It does suck for the vendor, as they pay ~3% commission, but there usually isn't a difference in price based on method of payment, so credit card it is.

Debt spending is also largely encouraged here.  For those that don't pay the balance, it's like 18%+ interest charged.

I`d like to keep that private, but I live inside the European Maffia Union, so just a hint for you what it's life inside it.

Yes there are some promos where you get some cashback here too, but I opted those out because it's more like a scam,I knew a guy who get a cashback after purchasing from a physical store and now it's facing a civil lawsuit from the bank on some bogus "no refund policy"  because he later returned the product, but the cahsback cant be returned, yet the store had no problem with returning of the item (i think it was a lamp) , however since he purchased with the card it got an issue with his bank (even though the cashback should be a gift, looks like banks dont give out free money after all ,only scam you).

Not to talk about the governments VAT tax scam, just to keep prices high artificially, its disgusting.

[freeyourmind]

Weird man.  What country are you in?

Here, not only is there no commission to pay for the cardholder, there are rewards programs for using it, including cash back.  So a lot of people including myself, use the credit card for almost every purchase, then pay off the balance, and receive the cash back without having any fees.

It does suck for the vendor, as they pay ~3% commission, but there usually isn't a difference in price based on method of payment, so credit card it is.

Debt spending is also largely encouraged here.  For those that don't pay the balance, it's like 18%+ interest charged.

I`d like to keep that private, but I live inside the European Maffia Union, so just a hint for you what it's life inside it.

Yes there are some promos where you get some cashback here too, but I opted those out because it's more like a scam,I knew a guy who get a cashback after purchasing from a physical store and now it's facing a civil lawsuit from the bank on some bogus "no refund policy"  because he later returned the product, but the cahsback cant be returned, yet the store had no problem with returning of the item (i think it was a lamp) , however since he purchased with the card it got an issue with his bank (even though the cashback should be a gift, looks like banks dont give out free money after all ,only scam you).

Not to talk about the governments VAT tax scam, just to keep prices high artificially, its disgusting.

Ah okay no worries.

My cash back is paid once a year, and takes into account net purchases (total purchases - total returns/refunds) when calculating the amount.  Some other added benefits are extended warranty, emergency auto assistance, and other types of insurance that most people don't use.

Yeah VAT or any consumption tax sucks, but I'd take a consumption tax over an income tax any day.  At least consumption tax is based on a purchase that an individual is willing to make (although basic needs purchases are always necessary).  There's not much you can do about income tax.

[GreenStox]

Ah okay no worries.

My cash back is paid once a year, and takes into account net purchases (total purchases - total returns/refunds) when calculating the amount.  Some other added benefits are extended warranty, emergency auto assistance, and other types of insurance that most people don't use.

Yeah VAT or any consumption tax sucks, but I'd take a consumption tax over an income tax any day.  At least consumption tax is based on a purchase that an individual is willing to make (although basic needs purchases are always necessary).  There's not much you can do about income tax.

I`d rather have no tax at all, or better yet no government, but to be realistic in a tyrranycal world we live in today, the VAT tax would only make sense if all other taxes would be eliminated.

You see VAT tax is atleast an enviromentally friendly one (to slow down the rabbid consumption based economy), but then again we got fiat printed money, and loan based economy to boost consumerism, so it's really nonsense, on 1 hand you halt comsumption by taxing it, on the other hand you give out loans from counterfeited money to boost consumerism. What a joke this government is. 

[freeyourmind]

Ah okay no worries.

My cash back is paid once a year, and takes into account net purchases (total purchases - total returns/refunds) when calculating the amount.  Some other added benefits are extended warranty, emergency auto assistance, and other types of insurance that most people don't use.

Yeah VAT or any consumption tax sucks, but I'd take a consumption tax over an income tax any day.  At least consumption tax is based on a purchase that an individual is willing to make (although basic needs purchases are always necessary).  There's not much you can do about income tax.

I`d rather have no tax at all, or better yet no government, but to be realistic in a tyrranycal world we live in today, the VAT tax would only make sense if all other taxes would be eliminated.

You see VAT tax is atleast an enviromentally friendly one (to slow down the rabbid consumption based economy), but then again we got fiat printed money, and loan based economy to boost consumerism, so it's really nonsense, on 1 hand you halt comsumption by taxing it, on the other hand you give out loans from counterfeited money to boost consumerism. What a joke this government is. 

You're not going to get a disagreement from me on not having tax, but that world is far from the socialist one we live in.  There are some things that I don't mind contributing to, like infrastructure, transportation systems, renewable energy, etc (all of that can also be done privately).  These are things that directly or indirectly benefit pretty much everyone, and making it more efficient would help everyone.  However a lot of the other bullshit responsibilities seem to fall under the government umbrella that I don't care for, and which are extremely expensive.

[deisik]

Weird man.  What country are you in?

Here, not only is there no commission to pay for the cardholder, there are rewards programs for using it, including cash back.  So a lot of people including myself, use the credit card for almost every purchase, then pay off the balance, and receive the cash back without having any fees.

It does suck for the vendor, as they pay ~3% commission, but there usually isn't a difference in price based on method of payment, so credit card it is.

Debt spending is also largely encouraged here.  For those that don't pay the balance, it's like 18%+ interest charged.

I`d like to keep that private, but I live inside the European Maffia Union, so just a hint for you what it's life inside it.

Now you live in some hole, so that you care not to say where exactly, but this in no case prevents you from making sweeping allegations, which, as it turns out, are not pertinent to the rest of the world? Good for you...

[BobK71]

Those so called financial assets are just a scam to rob average people off their money, when majority of the people were robbed, there will be depression and recession. But now when money can be created out of nothing at will, banks don't need to do this kind of scam any more, they can raise those financial assets' value forever using money out of thin air. And as long as people are still using fiat money to measure value, that game can last forever

There is a live show of central bank election: Greece crisis. Greece must decide if they still honor ECB to be their central bank, or they can say bye bye to ECB and setup their own central bank. The Greek people did not elect their central bank, but they elected a government who might be capable of setting up a new central bank thus totally reset the whole system

My guess is that ECB will never let them go. Print tons of euro and give it to Greece is much easier than set them free and become financially independent. However, ECB will never gain anything from enslaving Greece: They are so cunning that they just default  

If Greece are set free from ECB's control, they will be as good as heaven, then everyone will understand what is the root cause of Greece's problem

There will be depression/recession when the public realize the financial assets are way over-valued *and* this time the market wins because the authorities can no longer keep reality from being reflected by prices.

You should give people (and especially relative savvy, rich investors who tend to lead the way) more credit when it comes to realizing that currency can be over-valued too.  Money is just another financial asset.  When its value buys less and less, people always take notice and take action.  Your view of money being always trusted as a measure of value is likely rooted in the lack of obvious and severe consumer price inflation in the modern West (except for a brief period in Weimar Germany.)  This is a historically specific set of conditions, not a general one.  The immediate driver of the Great Depression was that Europeans, led by the rich, no longer trusted the value of their money and speculated in dollars and US stocks, as well as converting their cash to gold.

[GreenStox]

You're not going to get a disagreement from me on not having tax, but that world is far from the socialist one we live in.  There are some things that I don't mind contributing to, like infrastructure, transportation systems, renewable energy, etc (all of that can also be done privately).  These are things that directly or indirectly benefit pretty much everyone, and making it more efficient would help everyone.  However a lot of the other bullshit responsibilities seem to fall under the government umbrella that I don't care for, and which are extremely expensive.

Indeed, i`m only annoyed with income tax, forced-by-gun-to-your-head-or-prison type social security and health care, and commercial/adminitrative regulation such as forced-by-gun-to-your-head-or-prison type accounting in business, and playing by government daddy's rules.

Eliminate those, and they you are left with property tax, tariffs, and other excises, which if it's pluralized, not 1 shitty government service on monopoly like electricity companies government run and cause always powerouts, then it would be very close to minarchism

After that we shall see, but man the income tax and the regulations are just a bullshit tyrranical and totally useless things 

[GreenStox]

Now you live in some hole, so that you care not to say where exactly, but this in no case prevents you from making sweeping allegations, which, as it turns out, are not pertinent to the rest of the world? Good for you...

Good that you live in a country where you can be proud tolerate the government. Where I live i`m only getting robbed 80% of my income and get nothing back in return but shitty government services, more robbery taxing and lies inspiration, and propaganda "news".

Plus you get the 4-5 year crazy ritual where everyone goes into a box and puts a stamp on a toilet paper ,in a ceremony , invoking the God of the Governments, and praying to it to make things better.

Very crazy occult ritual this democracy is.  

[deisik]

Now you live in some hole, so that you care not to say where exactly, but this in no case prevents you from making sweeping allegations, which, as it turns out, are not pertinent to the rest of the world? Good for you...

Good that you live in a country where you can be proud tolerate the government. Where I live i`m only getting robbed 80% of my income and get nothing back in return but shitty government services, more robbery taxing and lies inspiration, and propaganda "news".

Plus you get the 4-5 year crazy ritual where everyone goes into a box and puts a stamp on a toilet paper ,in a ceremony , invoking the God of the Governments, and praying to it to make things better.

Very crazy occult ritual this democracy is. 

But you can always renounce your citizenship, I guess. Do you live in France? If so, some prominent characters have already done just that (after their government imposed heavy taxes on the rich). So what are you waiting for?

[GreenStox]

Now you live in some hole, so that you care not to say where exactly, but this in no case prevents you from making sweeping allegations, which, as it turns out, are not pertinent to the rest of the world? Good for you...

Good that you live in a country where you can be proud tolerate the government. Where I live i`m only getting robbed 80% of my income and get nothing back in return but shitty government services, more robbery taxing and lies inspiration, and propaganda "news".

Plus you get the 4-5 year crazy ritual where everyone goes into a box and puts a stamp on a toilet paper ,in a ceremony , invoking the God of the Governments, and praying to it to make things better.

Very crazy occult ritual this democracy is.  

But you can always renounce your citizenship, I guess. Do you live in France? If so, some prominent characters have already done just that. So what are you waiting for?

No i`m not from france. And go where exactly? There is no cm^2 on earth that is not claimed by a fucking government. They even fight amongs those tiny islands in the pacific with 1-2 km^2, they are everywhere.

Some are better some are worse, but all of them want to control you and to steal your money, so there is not much alternative.

[deisik]

Now you live in some hole, so that you care not to say where exactly, but this in no case prevents you from making sweeping allegations, which, as it turns out, are not pertinent to the rest of the world? Good for you...

Good that you live in a country where you can be proud tolerate the government. Where I live i`m only getting robbed 80% of my income and get nothing back in return but shitty government services, more robbery taxing and lies inspiration, and propaganda "news".

Plus you get the 4-5 year crazy ritual where everyone goes into a box and puts a stamp on a toilet paper ,in a ceremony , invoking the God of the Governments, and praying to it to make things better.

Very crazy occult ritual this democracy is.  

But you can always renounce your citizenship, I guess. Do you live in France? If so, some prominent characters have already done just that. So what are you waiting for?

No i`m not from france. And go where exactly? There is no cm^2 on earth that is not claimed by a fucking government. They even fight amongs those tiny islands in the pacific with 1-2 km^2, they are everywhere.

Some are better some are worse, but all of them want to control you and to steal your money, so there is not much alternative.

It will always be a matter of choosing between the two (actually many) evils. Indeed, it is much easier to blame a government, or aliens, or whatever rather than actually change something in your own life...

[JackRipper]

I pay 6-7%  comission on everything I buy, that is 3-4% to Mastercard, 2% to the bank and another 1% sometimes the merchant to validate the transaction, so sometimes it can be even 10% (+ 25% VAT of course as the government likes to steal too).

You, as the cardholder, pay Mastercard a commission when you make a purchase?

Is that normal in your country?

In North America, I haven't heard of a credit card that charges the cardholder unless they have a running balance - but that is an interest charge rather than a commission.  The vendor pays the commission here.

People often pay an annual fee. It all depends on which bank you go through. With my MasterCard, there is no annual fee, but when I was younger and building my credit, I couldn't qualify for a MasterCard without the fee.

[freeyourmind]

I pay 6-7%  comission on everything I buy, that is 3-4% to Mastercard, 2% to the bank and another 1% sometimes the merchant to validate the transaction, so sometimes it can be even 10% (+ 25% VAT of course as the government likes to steal too).

You, as the cardholder, pay Mastercard a commission when you make a purchase?

Is that normal in your country?

In North America, I haven't heard of a credit card that charges the cardholder unless they have a running balance - but that is an interest charge rather than a commission.  The vendor pays the commission here.

People often pay an annual fee. It all depends on which bank you go through. With my MasterCard, there is no annual fee, but when I was younger and building my credit, I couldn't qualify for a MasterCard without the fee.

Yeah that's true.  The basic credit cards usually have no fee.  The cards with higher rewards and protection usually do have a fee, but the bank waives the fee if you maintain a minimum balance.

I think my card is otherwise $99/year.  I'd have a very different view on it if I was incurring fees.  As it stands, I pay no fees and receive 1% cash back on all purchases.

[rif]

It's time to move on trade relations.

[Erdogan]

Money is pure value.

[BTCevo]

Money is pure value.

Yes money is a pure value, but it is for now. So later after bitcoin have affected they surely money will slowly replace by bitcoin then it will affect all world to use this kind of payment. Just wait for that time to booming then all people will be affected where the new era is coming

[Erdogan]

Money is pure value.

Yes money is a pure value, but it is for now. So later after bitcoin have affected they surely money will slowly replace by bitcoin then it will affect all world to use this kind of payment. Just wait for that time to booming then all people will be affected where the new era is coming

There is a common misconception that money is not value, because it can not be eaten etc. But, all value is one individual's preference for one thing over another, which includes money. Therefore, money is value just like other things.