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Author Topic: [ANN] AMP - The Currency That Powers Your Attention On Synereo  (Read 844061 times)
m3110w
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March 23, 2015, 01:50:17 AM
 #81

How much faith can anyone put in this when you are spamming multiple OPs on Bitcointalk?

I'm a newbie to this forum so forgive my stupid question: What exactly do you mean when you say "you are spamming multiple Original Posters on Bitcointalk?"
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March 23, 2015, 02:05:47 AM
 #82

The project sure sounds interesting to me and the model seems fair.  There is a lot of skepticism in the btc world of late, but I wouldn't let that scare you away from everything.  The idea here is solid and definitely could give Facebook a run for its money. 

I know I would use synereo.  All that can be decentralized, will eventually.
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March 23, 2015, 02:09:18 AM
 #83

How much faith can anyone put in this when you are spamming multiple OPs on Bitcointalk?

I'm a newbie to this forum so forgive my stupid question: What exactly do you mean when you say "you are spamming multiple Original Posters on Bitcointalk?"

Look at his posting history.

Jump you fuckers! | The thing about smart motherfuckers is they sound like crazy motherfuckers to dumb motherfuckers. | My sig space for rent for 25 btc per week.
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March 23, 2015, 02:45:11 AM
 #84

He's just trying to get the word out for his project.  I don't know if that means he can't be trusted!!!

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March 23, 2015, 02:46:51 AM
 #85

Indeed. I am only posting in threads of projects and coins I've followed before and know a bit about the community of - and only once.

Do you think it's better to pay magazines to publish stories about you? I prefer engaging people in our community directly.


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March 23, 2015, 02:50:45 AM
 #86

How did you come up with such a high valuation? Have you released a proof on concept?  With most projects with such high initial marketcaps they are priced as a development project should be.. Room for 10x to 100x growth from ipo.. You think the risk reward competes by pricing it at 154amp per usd while releasing 1 billion coins? So after release you think the cap would be $0.154 billion? If not then why ask the ipo holders to foot the initial bill of development (thousands of btc)?

If you ask me there is innovation yes, hence my private pm to you which you seemed to have missed... But based on the specs id say as of right now it shouldnt be priced more 1540amps per usd.. 10x less then ehat you are asking and even that is stretching it. Maybe best to find angel investors outside of this community if you want 154 per since there is no mining on ipo.. Btw how does the network secure itself?

★☆★Syscoin - Decentralized Marketplace and Multisig Platform
Pay with Bitcoin, ZCash and many more
For more visit Syscoin.org  ★☆★
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March 23, 2015, 02:57:39 AM
 #87

How did you come up with such a high valuation? Have you released a proof on concept?  With most projects with such high initial marketcaps they are priced as a development project should be.. Room for 10x to 100x growth from ipo.. You think the risk reward competes by pricing it at 154amp per usd while releasing 1 billion coins? So after release you think the cap would be $0.154 billion? If not then why ask the ipo holders to foot the initial bill of development (thousands of btc)?

If you ask me there is innovation yes, hence my private pm to you which you seemed to have missed... But based on the specs id say as of right now it shouldnt be priced more 1540amps per usd.. 10x less then ehat you are asking and even that is stretching it. Maybe best to find angel investors outside of this community if you want 154 per since there is no mining on ipo.. Btw how does the network secure itself?

I'm sorry if I've missed your PM. I've been swamped! Let me take a look.

Check out the numbers in our whitepaper and let us know if you think there's room for X100-X1000 growth.
http://www.synereo.com/whitepapers/synereo.pdf#section.1.2


Keep in mind that this is a technology that's been in development for over 4 years, with millions of dollars invested.
We'll release a tech demo showcasing it soon.

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March 23, 2015, 03:09:47 AM
 #88

How did you come up with such a high valuation? Have you released a proof on concept?  With most projects with such high initial marketcaps they are priced as a development project should be.. Room for 10x to 100x growth from ipo.. You think the risk reward competes by pricing it at 154amp per usd while releasing 1 billion coins? So after release you think the cap would be $0.154 billion? If not then why ask the ipo holders to foot the initial bill of development (thousands of btc)?

If you ask me there is innovation yes, hence my private pm to you which you seemed to have missed... But based on the specs id say as of right now it shouldnt be priced more 1540amps per usd.. 10x less then ehat you are asking and even that is stretching it. Maybe best to find angel investors outside of this community if you want 154 per since there is no mining on ipo.. Btw how does the network secure itself?

I'm sorry if I've missed your PM. I've been swamped! Let me take a look.

Check out the numbers in our whitepaper and let us know if you think there's room for X100-X1000 growth.
http://www.synereo.com/whitepapers/synereo.pdf#section.1.2


Keep in mind that this is a technology that's been in development for over 4 years, with millions of dollars invested.
We'll release a tech demo showcasing it soon.

Again innovative yes, but that doesnt mean anything.. You use the blockchain for amps but not for anythimg else which is fine, but all of that untested private code may have bugs stressing the underline structure or unforseen consequences. Its not proven and its already priced as a proven and usable product as turnkey.. At $0.15 billion its hard to be convinced without a community to review code and demos..

Is it open source? Is there commits going back 4.5 yrs to verify your claim.

So if it takes 5 yrs as aggressive timeline to take over facebook $200 billion then the price of each amp would be around $153 amp per usd with 1.3 billion coins.. And price would have to rise 5% per year.. See what im saying about risk reward? You think the price of each amp will be above $153usd within 5 years??. Seems to me its a case of someone having an innovative project but far too greedy..

★☆★Syscoin - Decentralized Marketplace and Multisig Platform
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For more visit Syscoin.org  ★☆★
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March 23, 2015, 04:11:54 AM
 #89

What an amazing innovation this project could be....but alas there are too many issues / red flags arising here:

1) you keep referring to having to okay things with your "trust", who is anonymous and whom you led us to assume gave you guys $1.1 million in initial funding out of the goodness of their hearts.
BULLSHIT and major RED FLAG.
This " trust " means you're not decentralized and there are shadowy figures behind the curtain who are truly running the show.
You can go ahead and post photos and names of your devs but without also doing the same with each member of this "trust" it doesn't mean a thing.

2) you mention there will be other funding rounds in the future...RED FLAG.
While I can see why you would choose to do this you are diluting all AMPs for current investors.

3) you mention that if you don't reach 18% of funding goals with this "round 1" beginning tomorrow you'll either close shop or the leftover % will go back to the overall total and you'll have to make do? What's the absolute minimum you need?
Also, since you've posted everything to github already, what's keeping we investors from giving you the shaft and instead waiting for another top-notch Dev team from developing their own Synereo without your shadowy "trust" and with mining available and no ICO bs

Overall I read the ANN for Synereo, got excited for this idea, but then realized that you guys are answering not to yourselves or THE COMMUNITY but rather to a shadowy "trust", who could very well be among the top advertising companies in the world or could be Facebook or could be the NSA.
You guys are really fucking smart, yes, but you're going about this in a very idiotic fashion, doomed for quick failure because you don't know this community.

JL

I own a DASH Masternode.... And you should too.
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March 23, 2015, 05:13:31 AM
 #90

What an amazing innovation this project could be....but alas there are too many issues / red flags arising here:

1) you keep referring to having to okay things with your "trust", who is anonymous and whom you led us to assume gave you guys $1.1 million in initial funding out of the goodness of their hearts.
BULLSHIT and major RED FLAG.
This " trust " means you're not decentralized and there are shadowy figures behind the curtain who are truly running the show.
You can go ahead and post photos and names of your devs but without also doing the same with each member of this "trust" it doesn't mean a thing.

2) you mention there will be other funding rounds in the future...RED FLAG.
While I can see why you would choose to do this you are diluting all AMPs for current investors.

3) you mention that if you don't reach 18% of funding goals with this "round 1" beginning tomorrow you'll either close shop or the leftover % will go back to the overall total and you'll have to make do? What's the absolute minimum you need?
Also, since you've posted everything to github already, what's keeping we investors from giving you the shaft and instead waiting for another top-notch Dev team from developing their own Synereo without your shadowy "trust" and with mining available and no ICO bs

Overall I read the ANN for Synereo, got excited for this idea, but then realized that you guys are answering not to yourselves or THE COMMUNITY but rather to a shadowy "trust", who could very well be among the top advertising companies in the world or could be Facebook or could be the NSA.
You guys are really fucking smart, yes, but you're going about this in a very idiotic fashion, doomed for quick failure because you don't know this community.

JL

Dear JL,

Thanks very much for this feedback! First of all i think i have to say that you are right. i don't know this community. Dor, our CEO, knows this community much better than i do. But, i am willing to engage and get to know you and would be happy to let you get to know me, if you want to.

i confess i don't really understand a lot of your comments and would welcome clarification. i don't know what trust you're referring to. Also, i don't know where you got the 1.1 M USD figure. The investment to date is 3.2 M USD. This breaks down to 2.2 M USD in cash and 1 M USD in in-kind contributions. There are no obligations on this investment. Period. There is no shadowy "trust". i don't know where you got that phrase. Right now we're raising 1.2 M USD to get to the next phase of the project. As you are probably aware, WhatsApp, which has a much simpler architectural challenge, cost much much more than this. We believe we can significantly lower the cost by building on significant work that has gone on before, and invite you to check out our white paper to see how we plan to go about this. If you see problems, let us know!

All the code written to date is open source and i've provided links to older versions in this forum already. Here they are again.

https://github.com/leithaus/SpecialK/tree/master
https://github.com/rlamb/Agent-Service-ATI-IA/tree/cryptoRedo
https://github.com/leithaus/GLoSEval/tree/cryptoRedo
https://github.com/leithaus/agentui

It's been in commercial use for two years. We sincerely believe that engagement by the community will accelerate the process of hardening the code. If you want to go through the code with me, i'd be delighted! i'll even help you stand up a node. Send me a note at greg@synereo.com.

Additional rounds do not equal dilution at all. There are all kinds of assumptions built into that claim. Maybe you can join us on this week's community hangout and we can address that in public so lots of people can hear it all at once? Otherwise, we can update the FAQ to include this kind of information!

As to who we're answering to, well, right now i'm answering to you. You want to know things about what we're doing and i'm at your service. There's no shadowy anyone looking over my shoulder. All of us at Synereo are committed to transparency. If there's any aspect of the project you want to know about, in detail, just ask.

In reality, the whole thing runs the opposite way from the way you've characterized it. Some people who really care about the current mess we're in have gotten together and put money and time and effort into addressing our current situation. We didn't whinge. We didn't give in to despair. We rolled up our sleeves and got to work, for the better part of the last 5 years. Now, there's a need to see if people can engage in even a small way. If people don't actually want to work on real solutions to our current problems, who are we to push them on people? If there's no will in the community to step up and take the bull by the horns, work together to begin to fix things, then there's no will, and that must be accepted.

If people do want to see change, then substantive engagement is what's required. AMPs are one way to participate. If you don't like that form of participation, there are lots of others. Can you code? Can you do community work? Do you make videos? Can you write blog posts? Maybe you don't like the shape of our solution? Awesome! Tell us how to fix it, or tell us a better shape! We are here to serve. Think about the current situation and what happens if we don't all work together.

Over the past decade, social media platforms have risen to become a major force on the Internet. As two-thirds of all Internet users are using these platforms, with 1 out of every 5 pageviews occurring on Facebook alone, and with many directly equating “social media” with “Internet”, the importance of these venues cannot be overstated.

The amount of money social networks generate is staggering. Leading the pack is Facebook, earning 3.85 billion dollars in the last quarter of 2014, followed by Twitter with $479m. When thinking about these numbers, it’s important to remember that the value created on these networks - what allows Facebook et al to generate these profits - comes directly and unequivocally from their users. In fact, users and their worth is the primary parameter these connetworks are measured by. Facebook recently acquired WhatsApp for $19b, paying 42$ per user. Similarly, the value of Facebook and Twitter users is often calculated through their market cap - currently at 141$ and and 81.5$, respectively.

Faced with these numbers, many people are asking themselves, “Does it make sense that the value we create simply by sharing our lives online is retained by the people who happened to be the first to provide the infrastructure allowing us to do so? That these social platforms’ stated aim is to increase the revenue they can extricate from us? From our basic need to communicate and share ourselves with others?”

Indeed, this is how current social networking service providers see their users: as unpaid laborers. As free content creators whose behaviors can be recorded and measured, the data generated auctioned off to other corporations. And for many, this may still be fine. These services are now seen as basic necessities in our digital age, and so perhaps the balance struck between user and service provider is a fair one. However, there are other issues tipping the scale against the incumbents: there’s been a breach of trust. The information going into user feeds is being manipulated, and the information going out - including details of user activity outside of Facebook - is being handed over to governmental authorities; privacy settings be damned.

The entire foundation of our established online identity is based in these axioms, of us being surveilled, labeled and “sold” to the highest bidder. And with our social network profiles serving more and more as the default identities on the web, everywhere - most services do not bother creating their own identity and authentication components - perhaps it’s time to stop and think if this how we want our digital identity to exist and evolve.

The more we wait, the more irreversible this becomes.

It’s clear that many users are aware of these issues and are looking for other ways to network online. A simple look at different offerings in the space, aiming to subvert some of the aforementioned premises, have been met with hope and with praise before ever delivering anything substantial. Diaspora, in many ways ushering the popular conception of a decentralized service, was quickly backed financially by hundreds of people. Ello, a recent attempt to create an environment where users aren’t monetized through ads, exploded in popularity within a few months of its launch, registering 1 million users and keeping 3 million more on its waiting list as it went on to scale its centralized technology.

So, we're just suggesting that instead of continuing to be unpaid laborers in building the global panopticon for the 1%, that we work together to build something we can use to support and take care of each other and the planet. If after a thorough review of what we've actually done, there's any part of what we've done you think smells rotten, just let us know and we will address it to the satisfaction of the community.

Peace be with you,

--greg
CSO, Synereo
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March 23, 2015, 05:53:29 AM
 #91

How did you come up with such a high valuation? Have you released a proof on concept?  With most projects with such high initial marketcaps they are priced as a development project should be.. Room for 10x to 100x growth from ipo.. You think the risk reward competes by pricing it at 154amp per usd while releasing 1 billion coins? So after release you think the cap would be $0.154 billion? If not then why ask the ipo holders to foot the initial bill of development (thousands of btc)?

If you ask me there is innovation yes, hence my private pm to you which you seemed to have missed... But based on the specs id say as of right now it shouldnt be priced more 1540amps per usd.. 10x less then ehat you are asking and even that is stretching it. Maybe best to find angel investors outside of this community if you want 154 per since there is no mining on ipo.. Btw how does the network secure itself?

I'm sorry if I've missed your PM. I've been swamped! Let me take a look.

Check out the numbers in our whitepaper and let us know if you think there's room for X100-X1000 growth.
http://www.synereo.com/whitepapers/synereo.pdf#section.1.2


Keep in mind that this is a technology that's been in development for over 4 years, with millions of dollars invested.
We'll release a tech demo showcasing it soon.

Again innovative yes, but that doesnt mean anything.. You use the blockchain for amps but not for anythimg else which is fine, but all of that untested private code may have bugs stressing the underline structure or unforseen consequences. Its not proven and its already priced as a proven and usable product as turnkey.. At $0.15 billion its hard to be convinced without a community to review code and demos..

Is it open source? Is there commits going back 4.5 yrs to verify your claim.

So if it takes 5 yrs as aggressive timeline to take over facebook $200 billion then the price of each amp would be around $153 amp per usd with 1.3 billion coins.. And price would have to rise 5% per year.. See what im saying about risk reward? You think the price of each amp will be above $153usd within 5 years??. Seems to me its a case of someone having an innovative project but far too greedy..

Hello! Thanks for asking about the code! Here are the links to the open source repos.

https://github.com/leithaus/SpecialK/tree/master
https://github.com/rlamb/Agent-Service-ATI-IA/tree/cryptoRedo
https://github.com/leithaus/GLoSEval/tree/cryptoRedo
https://github.com/leithaus/agentui

The commit history doesn't tell the whole story because we migrated repos a couple of times, but it tells a lot of it. i'm happy to go over it with you. It's been in commercial use for about two years. Does it need refactoring? You bet! Are the bugs? Yes, come help us quash them!

i really like your thinking in trying to apply FB costs to AMP costs. It doesn't work out in practice, but it's great place to begin. First of all, a lot of cost goes into figuring out what works and what doesn't. That's sunk cost for FB that we don't face. (Pun gratefully accepted. ;-) (On the other hand, we quietly ate a lot of that cost for a lot of dead-end designs when it came to making the decentralized architecture work.) Secondly, FB began with some pretty backwards architecture and commitment to code practices, designs and platform choices that were all terrifically expensive. Again, we have the luxury of hindsight. That's a huge efficiency for us. Thirdly, we have something to accelerate our development that FB didn't avail themselves of -- a mathematical blueprint for how this works. Checkout our white paper to learn more. Fourthly, we don't have to take over FB all at once. We just have to build out the network to the point where it's self-sustaining, then network effects begin to kick in, as they do for any open source project that is successful. That's just some of the issue with the cost side of your analysis.

On the value generation side, AMPs and the attention economy have the potential to address the squeeze on the creative classes from journalists to musicians. Check out what world-class musicians like the California Guitar Trio and Tony Levin think about this idea. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP3IRS0VaIY . Matt Black, of ColdCut and Ninja Tunes had a similar response. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwXqQ0QHKNk) And, he's putting his money where his mouth is. It also works as a much better platform for advertisers, cutting out the middle folk, and letting people be compensated for attending advertisement-based content, or opting out all together. Honestly, i don't know anyone who's done the economic analysis who doesn't think the value prop causes a significant rise in the value of AMPs. If, however, you see a different analysis, we are all ears. We are in this together and absolutely want to hear reasoned argumentation for every aspect of this offering.

In summary, we really appreciate your engagement! Skepticism is very welcome. We will do our very best to answer all of your questions to your satisfaction. So, keep them coming!

Love to all Beings,

--greg

CSO, Synereo
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March 23, 2015, 11:45:40 AM
 #92

So if it takes 5 yrs as aggressive timeline to take over facebook $200 billion then the price of each amp would be around $153 amp per usd with 1.3 billion coins.. And price would have to rise 5% per year.. See what im saying about risk reward? You think the price of each amp will be above $153usd within 5 years??. Seems to me its a case of someone having an innovative project but far too greedy..

Jag,

$1.2M is the bare-minimum to be able to develop an application as a part of the complex project you see before you.
How much would you suggest we raise and under what different conditions?


You guys are really fucking smart, yes, but you're going about this in a very idiotic fashion, doomed for quick failure because you don't know this community.

JL

Jesse,

I do know this community. I've been here from day one. I've participated in all the major (and many of the minor) crowdsales myself.
This is the community that has given 31000 BTC to a project that had zero code and 200% promises.
It's the community that has given $6-8M to a project that has been in development for 8 years before it had anything working to show for it.
It's the community that has thrown good money at various empty promises by unskilled developers operating without any legal structure and has allowed their projects to rise to ludicrous positions in coinmarketcap without ever delivering a single piece of working technology.

It's also the community known for its insane negativity and desire to spread FUD at the slightest sign of problem - and often without.

If you look at the threads for the successful projects that have come before us, you'll see the same pattern of extreme negativity, peppered with those who are genuinely interested in the project or that just chimed in to voice their support. When you like a project and wish to support it, there's not much more to say about it! Smiley

We believe that most people here understand that we have a very solid plan for developing a platform that marks an evolution in the way communications are done on the Internet. We believe that most people understand that $1.2m is on the low-end of resources required for the task, and appreciate that we're not trying to unload of all our tokens on the market for a quick cash grab, like so many other projects have done before, rather saving them until we reach future milestones and selling them at a higher price - to everyone's benefit. And if you don't - I advise you to ask your investment-savvy friends and inquire how much is usually invested at this stage of a project's life, where there's stable code with a proven track record in commercial services.


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Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master.
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March 23, 2015, 12:12:01 PM
 #93

Hmmmmm  Undecided Finding it difficult to suss this out
Edit will watch this for a bit see how things progress.

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March 23, 2015, 01:51:39 PM
 #94

In the meantime, check out this interview with me on Let's Talk Bitcoin.
https://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/lets-talk-bitcoin-190-the-attention-economy

We discuss our attention model as well as go into the tech and talk about how it all meshes together.

Synereo: liberating the Internet from abusive business models.

Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master.
<br>
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March 23, 2015, 02:07:26 PM
 #95

one thing you have to think of is that the success of this project would be immensely more profitable to the founders as well as the investors than a $1.2 million quick cash grab.  So they are extremely motivated to push the project forward.
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March 23, 2015, 02:49:43 PM
 #96

one thing you have to think of is that the success of this project would be immensely more profitable to the founders as well as the investors than a $1.2 million quick cash grab.  So they are extremely motivated to push the project forward.

That`s the point I currently do not quite get. I "invest" when I buy some cryptocoins and have to hope that they gain in value. It is quite possible that the site is a success (=many users), but the coins drop in value or do not rise as much as actual shares in the company.
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March 23, 2015, 03:00:32 PM
 #97

Advertisers would pay you in AMPs.  So as the demand for AMPs increases, and the amount is fixed at 1 billion then the price per AMP goes up.
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March 23, 2015, 03:06:56 PM
 #98

Advertisers would pay you in AMPs.  So as the demand for AMPs increases, and the amount is fixed at 1 billion then the price per AMP goes up.

Well...maybe. Maybe not. I`d rather have shares than AMPs.
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March 23, 2015, 03:32:27 PM
 #99

Advertisers would pay you in AMPs.  So as the demand for AMPs increases, and the amount is fixed at 1 billion then the price per AMP goes up.

Well...maybe. Maybe not. I`d rather have shares than AMPs.
If you like shares and you like owning shares in a business that is paying monthly btc dividends and growing then you should check my signiture

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March 23, 2015, 04:23:14 PM
 #100

Or you could look at buying some shares of Exxon mobil from www.Scottrade.com.  They pay a good dividend I hear.
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