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Author Topic: [ANN] AMP - The Currency That Powers Your Attention On Synereo  (Read 841513 times)
Momimaus
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March 26, 2015, 01:15:31 PM
 #141


There is no big run for your crowdsale. Maybe it´s time to think about the price.
More AMP per dollar could speed it up.

Honestly, 6m$ at this state of an high risk project like Synereo is not realistic anyway.

Dear Momimaus,

The $6m number floating around here is false.
Let's examine why and where we're really at:

MaidSafe, a crypto project promising a distributed storage solution, has a marketcap value of $10m+ with only 10% of its coins available on the market. This means that once their system is up and operational, price times available coins will equal more than a hundred million dollars. $100m.

Synereo, which already has an existing storage solution and much more, is currently only releasing 18.5% of available coins to the market - along with a few bounties (not even 1% at this point) and the 1/30 of the founder reward each month (i.e. 1% allocated 3 months from now). All remaining coins -> saved for future crowdsales, distributed to people who join the network and to content creators -> will be locked away for a long time, until we release our application to the public, at which point we will have proved Synereo's worth - and AMPs will begin having their innate value in the platform.

Let's round it up and call it a 20% available (assuming all coins are sold) and we reach close to $1.3m - the number which will actually appear on coinmarketcap. Now we're in an equivalent territory to GetGems, the Telegram-based messaging app.

Do you think $1.3m is a fair cryptocurrency marketcap value for a fully distributed technology already capable of distributed storage, smart contracts, and the plethora of other offerings we have in place?

Oh wow. That´s a sick answer.

Maidsafe will be mined over many many years. The 100m is at the end, according to Bitcoin with 21m coins.
But you don´t have mining. All the coins are premined. Just because you just don´t sell them, they don´t exist?
No, quite the opposite. Further crowdsales, bountys, giveaways, etc. will dump the price.
The 6m are correct, and it`s even worse, there is a 5% inflation ontop.

Yes, 1,3m will be shown an CMC, but that´s not an argument. Do you want be ripple or what?

The marketcap is 6m, that´s a fact. Blinding people is not an appropariate behavior.

If I think it´s worth 6m at this stage? Absolutely not.
But that´s not the question. I see 30k investments so far. So I think it is safe to say, that the people don´t think that it is so much worth.
Don´t crurify the messenger.



What does it matter if it's "mined" over many years or released to the public from existing wallets over many years? Both options hinge on the success of the project. In both options, coins will only be released to the market if an application actually exists and if people use it. If Synereo doesn't release an application, the vast majority of coins will never see the light of day as no one will wish to buy them in additional crowdsales and they'll remain locked in a wallet forever. If MaidSafe doesn't release an application, people won't mine it and create more SafeCoins.

MaidSafe sold all of their coins for $8m. We are selling less than a third of our coins for $1.2m and keeping the rest until we actually prove our mettle.
There are very clear rules for what happens with the rest of the coins not available to the market, unlike any other project in the ecosystem - including Ripple.


The difference is that they will be created by an algorithm und not released by people we don´t know.

Yes an Ethereum sold 20m and NXT für 20BTC so what? Comparing apples with oranges.

Don´t matter, keep your price. But look at the coins you already sold. People don´t buy.
If you double the amount, maybe they will come. Keeping a lot of coins for future crowdsales won´t give you the money you need today.
It´s not 2013, people don´t throw their money whereever a new project rises. And that´s good.

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March 26, 2015, 01:40:32 PM
 #142

Amps will most likely trade on poloniex.com at least.

Most likely? Can the Dev confirm that?

They will be traded on at least Poloniex and MasterXchange when the crowdsale ends.

We are also planning on starting AMP distribution before the sale ends. More details will be available soon.

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March 26, 2015, 01:43:40 PM
 #143

The difference is that they will be created by an algorithm und not released by people we don´t know.

Yes an Ethereum sold 20m and NXT für 20BTC so what? Comparing apples with oranges.

Don´t matter, keep your price. But look at the coins you already sold. People don´t buy.
If you double the amount, maybe they will come. Keeping a lot of coins for future crowdsales won´t give you the money you need today.
It´s not 2013, people don´t throw their money whereever a new project rises. And that´s good.


Are you unfamiliar with Craig Sellars of Tether and the Omni Foundation?

There are few - if any - more familiar and respected people in the cryptocurrency industry today.

We will soon publish all of the AMP wallets, which will remain transparent to the community indefinitely, and have Craig sign transactions affirming that he is in control of them.

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March 26, 2015, 05:26:13 PM
 #144

I think the valuation is fair, the project is super exciting, the potential market being tapped is enormous.  I think Facebook would have a hard time trying to convince people that their model is better than this one where the users are directly benefited.  

I think the reason it's not raising more money is due to not much marketing presale.  And possibly would have been more trusted if it was clearer that it was being handled through a third party.  I know Omni is handling the funds, but it could've probably been clearer.

I think once they can release a platform, they will have MUCH better luck on the second round.
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March 26, 2015, 09:45:34 PM
 #145

I think once they can release a platform, they will have MUCH better luck on the second round.

We actually have a working prototype, which we'll be able to talk more about in a few days. Stay tuned.
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March 26, 2015, 11:34:12 PM
 #146

We know some of you have been asking, so here's short update on the AMP generation -

We're hard at work generating the initial tokens together with the awesome team at Omni. We're taking extra steps to secure the process in ways that no other coin provides, and we expect to finalize the process over the next few days. Here's what Craig Sellars, our partner at Omni, has to say on the process:

Quote
The Synereo crowdsale was architected by the Synereo and Omni teams to be the most secure crowdsale performed on the Bitcoin blockchain to date.  Every element of the process, from the purchase address receiving BTC, to the designated operational wallets, the issuing address for AMPs and the distribution of purchased tokens leverages the multi-signature capability of Bitcoin.  The parties responsible for each step include Synereo personnel as well as external verifiers, each holding keys.  This demonstrates to purchasers and future users of the Synereo platform that the commitments made by Synereo are fulfilled and verified by a third-party for each next step in the process.  I hope this level of diligence is repeated (and even improved!) in the future by others looking to provide participants with such a high level of confidence.

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March 27, 2015, 12:57:37 AM
 #147

I think the valuation is fair, the project is super exciting, the potential market being tapped is enormous.  I think Facebook would have a hard time trying to convince people that their model is better than this one where the users are directly benefited.  

I think the reason it's not raising more money is due to not much marketing presale.  And possibly would have been more trusted if it was clearer that it was being handled through a third party.  I know Omni is handling the funds, but it could've probably been clearer.

I think once they can release a platform, they will have MUCH better luck on the second round.


tokens are selling for fixed USD price, so people waiting for btc to go back up to ~300 USD. Why buy today and feel crap if you can get 25% more AMPs if bitcoin rallies.

Personally I think you should have sold for fixed btc price

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March 27, 2015, 04:02:29 AM
 #148

They are overvalued by 10x if i get 10x more amps for this price id be bothered to be interested...

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March 27, 2015, 05:10:33 AM
 #149

it's a interesting Project.
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March 27, 2015, 05:13:00 AM
 #150

I think the valuation is fair, the project is super exciting, the potential market being tapped is enormous.  I think Facebook would have a hard time trying to convince people that their model is better than this one where the users are directly benefited.   

I think the reason it's not raising more money is due to not much marketing presale.  And possibly would have been more trusted if it was clearer that it was being handled through a third party.  I know Omni is handling the funds, but it could've probably been clearer.

I think once they can release a platform, they will have MUCH better luck on the second round.


tokens are selling for fixed USD price, so people waiting for btc to go back up to ~300 USD. Why buy today and feel crap if you can get 25% more AMPs if bitcoin rallies.

Personally I think you should have sold for fixed btc price


great idea.

devs, pls consider selling with fixed btc price

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March 27, 2015, 01:14:45 PM
 #151

I like the project and it has potential indeed, however,

I think you fail at explaining the evaluation. Note that I'm not saying I agree or disagree with it. What I'm saying is that you aren't capable to give a proper explanation for an investor to be interested. This because, you're comparing yourself with other projects. I believe that's wrong. You're just making assumptions. The fact some projects had a bigger or smaller valuation doesn't matter. Second, you have to evaluate what you currently have. What you have at the moment is what the investors are buying in. It has potential indeed but you can't just say "I valuate my company in XM$" because we have the potential to be as big or even bigger as FB. By that logic most companies would have crazy valuations.

In the end is all about the numbers. Sure, this is a high risk/high profit project and it definitely has potential, however, the current explanations you're giving to possible investor aren't good enough. Not criticizing the valuation, but the way you presented it.

Also, you seem to underestimate the reasons why people are worried about not being able to 'mine'. People aren't worried about mining in particular, they are worried because a single entity will hold (100%-18-6%) of all coins in existence. People think "what actually keeps them from dumping all the coins when they feel like it?", see? Sure, you probably can't dump them all, there is no demand, but people actually have to trust that for the upcoming years, you will remain faithful to the project. I'm sure you're motivated to, the concept is awesome, however, there is always the possibility and with so many scams in the cryptoworld, you can't trust anyone, even that member who has a good reputation for years. There has been scams of all types. Adding to the worry is the fact that "years" in the cryptoworld is too long. We all know in 1 month so much can change, in years, we can't even imagine.

Just trying to explain why all worries and doubts around here. my 2 cents

Question: What about the next crowdsales? Imagine the value per AMP is 3x lower at the time of your next crowdsale, will you sell the AMPs at that price or at the same price of the initial distribution? If you sell at lower prices, the first batch of investors will get hurt, however, if you sell at a higher price at which is being traded at the time, you won't sell. Have you thought about that? I personally think even if the first batch of investors gets hurt, well, this is an investment, it carries risks, however you have to be prepared for all the flame, FUD and scam accusations you probably will have to face.

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March 27, 2015, 01:57:34 PM
 #152

Thank you so much for taking the time to write this, Bisha.

A few points:

1) The valuation is not justified in comparison to FB and its market size. It's directly related to both what we have at hand and the potential growth brought by even very modest success. If you want to see our calculations, send me an email and I'll send you our business plan.

By ANY start-up world standard, the valuation we are putting forth it LOW. If we were to go to a VC, we would get a lot more. It would have been our series A. However, going that route, Synereo becomes controlled by an entity that pushes hard for profit generation and ROI. That would defeat the purpose of the project - creating a social platform unbound by financial motivations.

2) About mining: the concerns are understood. This is precisely why we wanted to have a very trusted third party acting as evaluators and trustees for the fund. This quote from Craig, our main trustee, was posted a few posts up, but it's worth repeating:

"The Synereo crowdsale was architected by the Synereo and Omni teams to be the most secure crowdsale performed on the Bitcoin
blockchain to date. Every element of the process, from the purchase address receiving BTC, to the designated operational wallets,
the issuing address for AMPs and the distribution of purchased tokens leverages the multi-signature capability of Bitcoin. The parties
responsible for each step include Synereo personnel as well as external verifiers, each holding keys. This demonstrates to purchasers
and future users of the Synereo platform that the commitments made by Synereo are fulfilled and verified by a third-party for each
next step in the process. I hope this level of diligence is repeated in the future by others looking to provide participants with such a
high level of confidence."
-- Craig Sellars, Co-founder and CTO of Tether and Technologist for Omni.

Keep in mind that besides not being under our control, these unreleased AMPs are going to reside in published wallets that are easily trackable. Doing anything against the published rules - like dumping them on the market - would be a clear violation of them and would in fact be illegal. All of our identities are known and we are fully transparent about them as well. It would be easier for MaidSafe to change the rules of their mining operation without recourse than it would be for us to release these coins. It would not be different than breaking an agreement you have with an investor and selling shares you don't own on the stock exchange.

3) We have given this a lot of thought, yes. If the price per AMP is lower, we will have probably failed. Either way, we won't sell AMPs at lower than the market price!
The entire purpose of not selling all AMPs now is that we can raise more money later on once we have an application we can release to the public.


Having said all this, what would you suggest for explaining the evaluation? I would welcome any suggestion. Maybe you can help us explain this in a clearer manner.



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March 27, 2015, 02:46:43 PM
 #153

If we were to go to a VC, we would get a lot more.

Yes, but not for AMPs. For shares in the company. Or am I wrong on that?
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March 27, 2015, 04:37:41 PM
 #154

If we were to go to a VC, we would get a lot more.

Yes, but not for AMPs. For shares in the company. Or am I wrong on that?

For shares, yes. These shares would then represent the value of the AMPs the company has. The difference would be that they would have control over the decision making processes.


What  happens if you SYnereo doesn`t  raise the full amount? What happens with the remaining coins up for presale? are they destroyed?


Yes.

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March 27, 2015, 07:21:03 PM
 #155

If we were to go to a VC, we would get a lot more.

Yes, but not for AMPs. For shares in the company. Or am I wrong on that?

For shares, yes. These shares would then represent the value of the AMPs the company has. The difference would be that they would have control over the decision making processes.


What  happens if you SYnereo doesn`t  raise the full amount? What happens with the remaining coins up for presale? are they destroyed?


Yes.

I thought I read that you simply do another sale at a later time but they are not destroyed? Did you change that?

Ahh https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zLBm8OHt5-81flihJ6iSKEm0WbRa6FL0mJ5ivBN34Po/edit

I Read it again.. oddly I don't remember the part of them being destroyed I read that another future sale would take place until they are all sold or something like that... hmm

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March 27, 2015, 07:32:27 PM
 #156

Judging by the amount of FUD here i'll say this has a potential....




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ALL YOU NEED IS LOAN





















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jokumat
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March 27, 2015, 09:55:37 PM
 #157

I thought I read that you simply do another sale at a later time but they are not destroyed? Did you change that?

I Read it again.. oddly I don't remember the part of them being destroyed I read that another future sale would take place until they are all sold or something like that... hmm

sidhujag is right. I remember the same thing. This is a very important issue ... and they changed this   - silently  - and must have edited their former response to dzarmush in the thread

I guess the initial sales are bad and they feel the market pressure.
Elokane
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March 27, 2015, 11:00:43 PM
 #158

I thought I read that you simply do another sale at a later time but they are not destroyed? Did you change that?

I Read it again.. oddly I don't remember the part of them being destroyed I read that another future sale would take place until they are all sold or something like that... hmm

sidhujag is right. I remember the same thing. This is a very important issue ... and they changed this   - silently  - and must have edited their former response to dzarmush in the thread

I guess the initial sales are bad and they feel the market pressure.

I just edited it, yes, in anticipation of an announcement we'll make about this shortly. I also messaged everyone who asked in the thread privately.
Sorry about the confusion - we'll make it official soon.

Synereo: liberating the Internet from abusive business models.

Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master.
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SlyWax
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March 28, 2015, 01:23:02 AM
 #159

How will the synereo network prevent people from sucking all the AMP from sponsored content without reading it ( ie with a script or bot ) ?
MadCow
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March 28, 2015, 07:48:10 AM
 #160

I thought I read that you simply do another sale at a later time but they are not destroyed? Did you change that?

I Read it again.. oddly I don't remember the part of them being destroyed I read that another future sale would take place until they are all sold or something like that... hmm

sidhujag is right. I remember the same thing. This is a very important issue ... and they changed this   - silently  - and must have edited their former response to dzarmush in the thread

I guess the initial sales are bad and they feel the market pressure.

I just edited it, yes, in anticipation of an announcement we'll make about this shortly. I also messaged everyone who asked in the thread privately.
Sorry about the confusion - we'll make it official soon.


what about people who bought already under the previous rule? changing IPO rules mid stream ... dangerous
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