Bitcoin Forum

How do you think about this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=20292.msg1576397#msg1576397
http://www.multiversecomputers.com/Mining-Products.html
Any one confirm ? I'm very interested in this product. But I wonder if it's a scam ?

Moderator note: Please do your own research carefully before investing your hard earned monies in ANY investments. We are not responsible for your own money.

Edit: probably a scam now. Check last posts for a scam report.

If Mhash/s/$ = 3.03 and Mhash/s = 4,000 then the price would be 4,000 * 3.03 = $12,120
If they make a mistake on the website that big I doubt they can create a mining device at all.

1 week old domain/site, a no go.
Give 'm a call?
Administrative Contact:
    Contact Privacy Inc. Customer 0133634105,   multiversecomputers.com@contactprivacy.com
    96 Mowat Ave
    Toronto, ON M6K 3M1
    CA
    +1.4165385457
 

Scam


Based on this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DD7OjvdQpl8 somebody (most likely the scammer itself) is living in some dump and is trying to proof that a product exists and is shipping. Surprisingly no other customer is providing any info about this revolutionary product..

Yea, there is this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKJUy2K3AOI but camerawork suggests its the same author/scammer as the first one.

That is just fin awesome!!!! ;D


He tries so hard to seem legit. The videos have their ratings and comments disabled, so no badmouthing. He cut off the bubble wrap like an unboxing vid. No closeups or shots of it actually running. Good god man, is all this effort really worth it?

Please for the love all all humanity do not send that 'company' any bitcoins!!!

Does anyone have the 'original' website address that was mentioned?

My favorite is "Don't remove the sticker, the LED's are too bright."

More like, "Don't remove the sticker, cuz then you'll see that it's just a switch with a Lightning miner sticker on top to cover up the linksys logo."

 :D

Seems almost to dumb to be a scam  ::)

But wait?




Both quotes from the site.

Critically, very, very critically.

Well for $75 I guess it could be worth a try. After all the other money I have lost or have invested in waiting for BFL to deliever.

Phil

It is version 4.0 so it must be real.

LOL so true I missed that and versions 1-3

LOL even with all the massive red flags I kinda thought like this.  I just got a prepaid visa card the other day for a little over a $100 and was wondering what I should spend it on!  I figured that since it was such a small amount of $ (and I had this card kicking around) and they accept CC I would take a shot at it (bad case its a scam and I do a charge back in a few weeks, worse case I totally lose the purchase price?).

So I headed to the checkout (after verifying on the site that they ship internationally), well low and behold I got stuck at the checkout because the forms only accept USA address' and I don't see anywhere to be able to add international information.  The checkout process seems to require a USA address to continue.

RED FLAGS EVERYWHERE, PROCEED WITH EXTREME CAUTION!

Is it quotes like these from the site maybe?


Translation: This site really is just front for you give us your CC info and your BTC please ignore this page and return to the product we just produced from thin air.

Don't risk your money like that (and that's saying it nicely). That website smells really really bad. If they were making those that cheap (40GH for $600), then why sell them? They could make a fortune mining. And how wold they expect to pay off any ASIC development costs?

One might then ask the same of BFL, but at least BFL seems to have had an established electronics business before turning to develop mining hardware. And has actual human names associated with the company.

And if your going to waste $75, here's a better idea. Send it to any one of the people on the forum that has a bitcoin address, then PM that person and tell them to send you any ASIC hardware for mining bitcoins that they MIGHT have in their garage. You'll probably have a better chance of getting something.

Scumming scoombugs!

Site design is puke, information and content puke, no full size pictures on site puke, Only one customer posting proof RED flag. 90% sure this is a scam and the videos posted are not the best and does not go into all details of products nor is video quality high. Also other videos on his channel it seems is a member of a old game called dark orbit and problems so noob off their trying to make more money and scam people no doubt.


Why don they come on here and have their own thread started hmmmm. Also all their domain info is BS too.... Stay away from this people. However very tempted to by as they also take credit card payments but still this is also risky going to stay away from this and  mid year will have something for everyone to offer :)

Edited waiting for updates on this maybe will get my very own unit as agreed to take part in beta.

No, it's not worth a try.  *Especially* after all the money you have lost...

There is zero chance this is legit.  So many red flags that there is no other possibility.  Amateurish attempts to make it seem legit like bogus unboxing videos that contain references to the "old website" trying to explain away the fact that site was just registered.

Save your money, stay away!

That's the contact information for the hosting company, except for the email there.

The whole reference to a previous website that none of us have heard of just adds to the suspicion. If any of those testimonials were real then we would have heard about this a long long time ago. Stay away and save your money.

Obvious scam is obvious.

This is an email back from them. asking for more info.

Yes, still got to be careful about possibly being a scam, until other people have seen the actual device.

Phil

+1
The wise has spoken! Please listen.

Unless this seller related to Intel or AMD ( like the forgotten second cousin ) they have a better chance to visit  outer space befor producing ASICs ;D

From their mining hardware page - (Production ends March 25, 2013)

They are saying their numbers are based on simulation (ie nothing has been produced yet) then say they are shipping in 4-5 days. Then their website says production wont be done until the 25th of March.

They can't even keep their story straight. My guess is they are hoping to bring in a few grand from unsuspecting bitcoiners. Just say no!

I dont think we need to warn anyone.

If anyone fall for this scam, they fully deserve it.

They cant survive life on daily basis, so warning them is useless

I have emailed asking to see the working units in 4-5 days. If they are legit then there should be no problem with letting me visit their HQ and see them mining.

If anyone is still thinking of ordering, at least wait until I have verified they are real and working. Until then you can assume it is a scam.

LOL where is their HQ?

Ok so fess up. Who bought one?

If you believe the email above, you presumably also believe the numerous glowing "comments" on the website from customers who have received the actual device.  I would say order away, but your seemingly limited ability to detect an obvious scam makes me wonder which side of the ordering process you're on.

For the rest of us, I think it's safe to say no one will ever see the actual device.

I think we are all just jealous none of us thought of this. 

I was just born late.

Lol Tom's drunk again.

I sent them an email as well and the response I got was basically the same as above... 4-5days, 12 beta testers etc etc.  I also asked about international CC orders (they're in the USA and I am in Canada) and the email states (paraphrasing here) that their CC processor does not process international CC and that all international orders are handled through MtGox...

Million to one shot this is not a scam.  Curious to see how they respond to BittenBob's request!

There was no response...

interesting response from pm from one of the team so it seems


Hello,
       If we were able to respond to the thread you all are speaking on, we would. 


The 4.0 doesn't stand for the version of the product.  The 4.0 stands for the 4MH/s
Im sorry that the website looks like "puke" to you, we are working on making the website more elegant.
The production ends Mar 25th is a notice that we will no longer be making the product after the 25th.  Not that production of the product will not begin until that date.
We have already been in communication with several members in the forum who have been in the forum for a long time, about getting them some of our devices so that they can test them, do some recordings and etc.
We are not a big business, nor do we claim to be.  We are new to your community, and we will make every effort to work with you all in any matter pertaining to our business.
We have already sent our Customer Service team an order to edit the specs listed under the miners.
We have for quite a long time been building pc's for our customers, and on occasion mining rigs.  It was our mining customers, who asked us to develop a ASIC based product for mining.
SoC implementation for mining is not all that difficult, most of you given some time and a little tutoring could make your own from home.
We very much welcome any feedback, suggestions, ideas, or questions of any nature.  Like I said, this is your community and we are just arriving here.  Please, before you go forward with making accusations about us, give us the chance to prove ourselves to you.


Thank you for taking the time to read my message, and I look forward to hearing from you.



Multiverse Computers
Support

I've actually decided to take the leap of faith and order one. Speaking to their Customer Service says that the device will be with me within 5-8 days. So hopefully later this week I can give a few photos, and review of the device working.

If I don't receive it we will know that things are not good.

Also as mentioned above, they have also mentioned the beta testing of the Mammoth Device to me and I'm hoping that they will include me in the beta testing as well.

Phil

Can anyone that received a response by email post the originating ip?

you went and actually ordered well I wish you the best of luck in getting the product from them if you get the device then am sure if this is legit and then you etc then will hold more value to it. The other question is that their stopping product on them the million $ question is why if their a new company providing new hardware one would only continue to make products.

THATS funny!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

Yep, I thought I would take the risk, it is only $75 and not big in the scale of things. So by next week (week starting the 11th) we will know if they are the real deal or not.

Phil

I will bet he is not the only one who will give it a shot at $75.  Hope springs eternal!

However - a good scam will probably do it just like this - a low enough price with a big juicy carrot - will catch a few people no doubt.  And personally i DO agree that $75 might be worth a risk although i think the odds are low that this is valid.

Why stop making them on the 25th? But you can beta test a mammoth device? 

I'm in for beta, even pay my own shipping overseas. May even purchase the other if they are real.

It's all so strange though.

Do you mind if I ask if you paid CC or BTC? are you a domestic or international customer for them?

I'd like to know what Fab they used to produce their ASICs and how many they made... that must have cost them a bundle to custom build an ASIC.

They are keeping the 4 MH/s value - it looks like a CPU inside, mining with this exact speed.

so the scam is that its 4 M/h  not 4 G/h ? hahahahaha... that explains a lot....  that is sooo worth 75$....

Nowhere on the site that I can find does it say it actually mines bitcoins.  The site says a lot of things, but it does not say that. 

You may end up getting exactly what you ordered.  I'm not sure what Bit Mining is, but I'm sure I can produce a $75 device from my closet that does 4,000 MH/s mining bits of one sort of another.

LOL thats a good point

Those money has gone to Irad to fight terrorist for you. Unfortunately they will never come back. You're a money murderer.

Ya, but can you deliver it in less than 8 months?

Bit mining nice catch.

But watch out for making promises you can't keep. Or have they been in the closet all this time?

Sure, send me $75 and I'll send you something that mines bits at 4 GH/s today (well, tomorrow, Monday the 3rd).

Are we using the same calendar?  Now that is a ship date you can not possibly make... 

Even when joking you set an impossible ship date LOL sorry couldn't resist!!!

You gotta take a little jokin' Inaba here. This is kinda funny either way

Known scammer AKA "BFL_Josh", dont send him anything.

The cd probably contains a virus that steals your wallet.dat

Why is that a ship date I can't possibly make?  I assure you with 100% confidence that I can make that ship date.  I'll even do escrow.  You will get a 4 GH/s device that mines bits shipped out tomorrow for $75, assuming you're in the US.  If you are international, you'll have to cover shipping.

Wasnt the 22nd also your "everything" goes wrong date and we'll still ship date? How'd that work out for you?

The Device has a power supply of 4.5W of power and it hashes at  4Gh.(Mhash/s 4,000)
Then that is perhaps the LOWEST power consumption out of any of the ASICS
I.E 90W for 80GH , for a FULLY loaded PSU.

I've asked for a teardown sample... which I will pay for if it is not a scam.

accurate dates just aren't your thing are they?

Well a little update on this.,.

I have spoken to their support. Now I will take back some of my statements posted early on. I will give this company the time to send me their unit.

I will be going into testing and I will if allowed to post pictures, videos of the unit then I will do this.. I will be going into testing with this product to actually see if it is real or not. Shipping details have been sent to them and now awaiting details of everything to be sent back to me..

Can I get the bfl device I paid for last July first. Until then I trust them as much as I trust u and bfl. Same risk in my view

Will you please start making sense?  What the hell are you talking about?

From what I understand I should also be beta testing their mammoth device. So I will also be able to let people know limited info during the beta.

Phil

Inaba, tomorrow Monday is the 4th, not the 3th. (Edited the number, as I mistakenly wrote "5th" because looking at date past midnight. Funny to make an error while correcting someone. :) )

(BTW, as bumping is done, a small update of https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/692-bfl-asic-status-2.html (https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/692-bfl-asic-status-2.html) would be welcome, please.)

Actually tomorrow is Monday march 4th ;)

Will see how things progress who knows we might have something to talk on and work between each other however betas beta NDA n all

Yeah, tomorrow is the 4th.  Heh... I was looking at today when I wrote the 3rd.

Agreed there is sometime until they come, but if true could be interesting

Phil

Tos is same as...


I just finished reading page one, and may have more to comment on. I think I know who this is, but will wait to see if I read if he's already been discovered.

Probably wise to say something now if you think he's a scammer.  People seem willing to order these things sight unseen.

http://www.screenshots.com/multiversecomputers.com/2008-01-23


https://insolvencynotices.asic.gov.au/browsesearch-notices/notice-details/MULTIVERSE-PTY-LTD-116999243/68876171-e2cb-4267-b7f9-a6326a43f65f

At the bottom of this page you can see the word Bitcoin, but it's in black: http://www.multiversecomputers.com/Mining-Products.html

Have you got anything that connects the two Multiverse companies, Phinn (even Australia has a few companies called Multiverse)?  I don't feel like paying for an ASIC search to find out who's behind Multiverse Pty Ltd, but maybe there's some information that links them.

I think the ASIC guys are probably scammers, but given how little effort Multiverse Pty Ltd put into advertising themselves (looks like they didn't even have a website and they only advertised in free or cheap local stuff), I'm not sure that the guys from Mt Hawthorn in Western Australia are connected with the guys who are supposedly shipping mining gear from the US.

I also find it odd that anyone familiar with Bitcoin would abbreviate it to BC.

No. The ASIC threw me a curve. My first guess was that they're in the UK. Going to research that angle in a bit, but first let's revisit that YT video and see if you see what I see. Note the shadow thrown against the wall. You can see he's a clean shaven young lad with fuzzy hair. Although you can see the shadow throughout the video, the best shots are at the onset: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DD7OjvdQpl8

Does he look like this guy?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4I8BPDjUgKI

Atlas is considerably more literate than whoever put together that website.

I can find no traces of any previous website that sold "Lightning Miner", despite the comments section.  In fact all references to the Lightning Miner which I can find on Google have appeared in the last few days.

http://www.wezlanator.com/used-laptop/laptop-fan-used-for-lightning-miner-4-0

Apologies for the double/triple posting, but...

They are using Mt. Gox as their payment processor. They may not have to submit any docs to get the funds in, but they sure the hell will have to to get the funds out. I don't believe that MG can shed any light on the subject.

Here's another observation. Somebody tell me how it's possible to order a Lightning Miner 4.0 off the internet a few days ago, when if you Google "Lightning Miner 4.0" (with quotes) all the umpteen results are about 24 hours old. These damn things didn't even exist 48 hours ago, let alone a few days, on any website regardless of its domain name.

Yet, according to their comments page, six different people managed to not only order, but received units and are happily miner their asses off.

LOL! And now the YT video has been removed by the user. I wonder why. Was it because of my shadow comment?

Wow, I don't check this subforum for a few days, and there are 2 new possible ASIC options now (if they're not scams).

I hope both turn out to be legit.  ;D

They are located in Toronto in Canada and domain name registered 8 days ago?  Fake information in very high probability.

For the second time on this thread, the Canadian address is for the privacy company, and  not for them.

But that's not what I came here for. I just received a PM from a Newbie of whose name I will withhold. I believe he will not object to me posting the full content of said PM.


Now if this evidence doesn't show that this outfit is a scam, and that the user account on this forum doesn't warrant a scammer tag, then I don't know what to say.

Clearly, the comments supposedly quoted on their website has been altered, hence not true comments. NO FUCKIN IFS ANDS OR BUTTS ABOUT IT!!!

The outfit is clearly a scam and every effort should be made, INCLUDING GIVING THE USER WHO ONLY HAS A SINGLE POST ON THIS FORUM THE SCAMMER TAG to help warn those new to Bitcoin. If not, then we are doing a disservice.

Also, all current ASIC Bitcoin developers should weigh in to protect their positions. I may sometimes be critical of Avalon or BFL, but that doesn't mean I wish them to fail as a vital Bitcoin entity. This outfit could easily give them a black eye, as well as give Bitcoin a bad rap if the unsuspected order from them.

theymos?

~Bruno K~

Man ya gotta give em an A for effort.   I contacted them last night and received this not long after.




There is a name now.  I really don't know how to take this entire thing yet.  Somethings seems very right and some things seem very wrong.

This has been mentioned before. Who calls bitcoin BC?   

A redneck who changes customers quotes on his website and deletes his own video when it shown that his image is shadowed on the wall in his redneck home. That's who.

I agree ya here Phinn (don't think they call em redneck in Canada though).  I guess I am having problems with the lengths gone to (so far) establish themselves a real company. 



This guy still has only one post on the forum.  Seems he should be bustin' his ass to get outta newb land and defend themselves here.

I am spending to much time on this.  Someone will repost soon.

I will suck Goat's dick if this is not Atlas. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKJUy2K3AOI


You all remember this?

https://i.imgur.com/kibMI.jpg

Err before my time maybe?  But was this Atlas person bad?

Scammers know people here are so eager to pay a lot to get ASICs as faster than others as possible.
It's a perfect opportunity for them to grab a huge amount of un-traceable money from people out of mind.
That's why they suddenly come out telling too-good-to-be-true stories

Really?

The only BC references I've ever seen are the emails posted in this thread from Lightning Miner and the customers in the comments section of their website.

What a freakish coincidence!  If I didn't know any better I'd think those customer comments were written by Lightning Miner himself!  Nah, couldn't be... :o

I think we need a bet.
My money is on this being a scam 50-1 odds.
primeasic 2-1
helveticoin 1-1

Btw the address:

 96 Mowat Ave, Toronto ON

is a pretty run down part of town and is known for its shadier dealings (there have been numerous drug busts in that area).

maybe they run SR too

For the nth time, that is not their address. It is the address of contactprivacy.com (https://contactprivacy.com/).


http://who.godaddy.com/whois.aspx?domain=contactprivacy.com&prog_id=GoDaddy

Hey, Jacob! You can formally request a whitelist so that you can get out of Newbie. I have friends in high places just dying to honor said request. BTW, if I point out another shadow on the other YT video, do you think he too will take down the video? Sure the hell looks like Mark L to me.

It's a shame you put in so much time and money to build multiversecomputers.com and multiversecomputers.net, only to receive such a welcome from the buddies you were hoping to acquire.

he doesn't seem real concerned with the forums any more.  I think he may have given up

Doesn't mean we've lost interest.

Dude shouldn't have put up his phone # on Hotfrog.

Points to Dunfermline, Cowdenbeath, Scotland

Disregard that. Wrong multiversecomputer

Support Phone # is registered (http://www.techspex.com/amtda/cmtse/info?company_id=1931) to one Eric D Wilcox, Billerica, former CNC machine tools salesman up until two years ago then worked as a handyman, business was closed in September 2012, in his own word "In March 2013, I shall retire." Retiring on a nice security bed of cash, are we?

A small bit of info from the invoice from my order.

The payment system used was intuit.com.

The address on the invoice was in INDIANAPOLIS, IN 46235

Phil

Makes sense.. the site's IP address is hosted by Intuit.

Although I would be shocked if anything was shipped at all, there is the remote possibility that something capable of mining bits of some kind will be received.

Funny that the only place Bitcoin is actually mentioned is on the payment button and hidden at the bottom of the page for search engines.  I see no reference to Bitcoin mining anywhere that indicates their equipment has that capability.

What Misc Mining software and Miner Monitor are included on the CD?

Lightning Miner 4.0 (Production ends March 25, 2013)
Application Specific Integrated Circuit Device
4.5 watt - Power Supply Included. (Adapters for specified countries)
Mhash/s 4,000.......Mhash/J 1000
Com Ports: USB - Usb Cable Included
CD Included. Misc Mining software, Miner Monitor, and more

This is mentioned earlier in thread

Since the guy ain't smart enough to request to get outta Newbie, nor know how to spell Bitcoin, regardless what he states otherwise as to spelling errors, MC.com ain't passing the smell test.


I'll address the first paragraph first:


Clearly, the same guy who penned the above has access to the user account on this forum. Most likely the same guy who registered said account. Ain't got a clue as to how to get whitelisted, yet knows how to use the PM.

You shouldn't have too much trouble getting in contact with your webmaster, even IF he's a different person other than yourself, for he was available late Sunday night to edit Mark's comment in regard to the YT video being taking down. Can't remember, but I think it had something to do with the shadow of his likeness being broadcast on the wall throughout the video. BTW, better warn the other guy who committed on your website that there's a nice shadow of him reflecting off one of the machines in his basement gaming room video showing off his Lightning Miner. Oddly, he too looks like Mark. Maybe they're brothers.


I'll answer that since you're new here: Yep! Another case in point--this post. Enjoy!


Obviously! You could have gone another route, one that didn't raise a myriad of red flags, but that would have been too easy. If you're true to your word, then it's highly probably that those units were sent out today with tracking numbers to said community members since you sent out quickly to the six that have commented on your website. I suggest sending a memo to your shipping department to make sure that that's the case.

<In case you're wondering, yes I am addressing every single sentence in the second paragraph above.>


I have to give you that one, though I truly don't know how you were able to pull that feat off. My only guess, and it's only a guess, is that the entity is only a couple weeks old and nobody has ordered yet. Again, it's only an educated guess, given the facts I've been able to work with. Strike that! You mentioned outside Bitcoin mining products (implied). I'm willing to Matthew-Bet that you won't ever supply us what those previous entities are/were.

Secondly, please make sure that your webmaster knows, and uses properly, the various correct spellings and grammar usage of the term Bitcoin: Bitcoin; bitcoin; bitcoins.


Well, looky here! You can call me a liar, for I quoted two sentences after just professing that I was doing one at a time. PM theymos and tell him to give me the scammer tag. That'll learn me.

I guess it all depends on your definition of what tangible is. Nobody has ever accused Bruno's Barn Wood Emporium of being a scam either. Not a single person has ever, and I mean ever, not received product from BWE. I'll leave it up to you to figure out what I just did there.


And either will BWE. BTW, the wording is very similar, and maybe even exact, to those who've used it previously on this forum and now are labeled scammers. Speaking of which, I'm still surprised you're not yet labeled considering the altering of the quoted comments on your website. Did you not know that you're at liberty to edit every single thing on a website except quoted comments from previous clients? Granted, you're allowed to make them up, but don't ever get caught. Do you all know how to get caught? Answer: Alter the quotes after they're published.


<three dot thingies and a however constitute one sentence in my book>

It'll be pretty ignorant to order product from an entity with so many waving red flags when the wind isn't even blowin'.

It's not that I don't want to order 23 units. I want to believe. Why 23? Because it's a nice round number.


But have you read them?


They sure do! But the major ones are caught prior to being published. You truly don't have a clue as to what the major concerns were until they were brought to your attention.

But let's consider the fact that it's not your fault, but the fault of your webmaster-blaster. Obviously, not enough homework was done prior to hiring the fool, which makes the person who commissioned him a greater fool for not doing due diligence.

I would love to see the original website from which your supposedly previous customers order from if the same webmaster-blaster also penned that one, and your currently website is the master piece.


Anderson-Cooper-Style? (a little thought is needed for that reply, for it may, or may not be, a double entendre)


I would love to combine that sentence with the one previous, but I'm on probation, and only allowed one lie per post.


Well, jack me off, Gomer! The only fuckin' proof you had in the wild showing your product and you demanded that they come down. First, I don't see how that's possible. Secondly, there were only two videos (BTW, you spelled that wrong, along with YouTube--capital T). And third, according to what was penned by your webmaster-blaster, "Video link Removed by Support per customer request." That no looky to me like YouTube removed the video. Also, according to the following found here  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DD7OjvdQpl8, the same: "This video has been removed by the user."

If it was removed for some other reason, YouTube would have stipulated that.

Again, I'm pretty sure The Shadow had something to do with it. Second video going down in 5... 4... 3... for exactly the same reason.

Intermission: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TF0JrY3zAs


Make a note that when the positive comments start rollin' in, PM theymos to have them removed, for they too would need to be pre-approved.


A lot is two words, not one. There's a fine thread on this forum learnin' folks this fact.

Honestly, you're paying attention to the wrong people. Most of the naysayers reside in other camps, for we prefer the colored marshmallows.


I now have Goober jacking me off, for Gomer was doing it all wrong. You do realize that you're requesting that we wait for further videos on YT to prove that your viable, don't you?

This just in! Apple has requested of YouTube to take down the million plus videos showcasing iPods and iPads, for none were pre-approved.


Boy, I'm relieved. The last thing I desire is for somebody to be mean to me.


Great! And once proven viable, I'll order my 23 Mammoths, hopefully they're as shown below with the Nexus 8.0 installed.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/90/Lyuba.jpg/220px-Lyuba.jpg

To be clear, if you think I was tough, wait till Data finds this thread:

http://static.openruby.com/assets/pages/5c/27/5c27bd0e21ae84a6a874c570b04f5d74_330.jpg

I'll end with my sig and following image:

~Bruno K~

http://gordonkeith.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/red-flags.jpg

Here is some additional information.  I asked to see the site of production. I was told it was in Akron OH, but have yet to receive an address.
I did a few pipl searches, did find an interesting Jacob W Berry in Akron Ohio.

The same person, don't think so, but who knows.

This looks like a potential scam should it be added to the pending scammer list?

Why don't we all just wait till seasoned members of this forum get their test BC units first before we go any further. You all agree?

Also, maybe somebody should tell them that they can start their own thread in Newbie, open for discussion.

Got another email from Lightning Miner.  No answers to any of the questions, even the easy ones like their address and elusive domain name of the previous website that is the key to the mystery of how they already had numerous satisfied customers before they first appeared on the Internet several days ago.

As was pointed out previously in this thread, why are they waiting for user videos to be posted when they claim to have taken down the two previous user videos because they weren't pre-approved?

Seems like they are attempting to stall the naysayers long enough to hook a few fish.  Hopefully no one bites.  Perhaps they believe offering the carrot of a free sample should be enough to temporarily silence the most vocal skeptics.

Okay it is going on the pending scammer list

come on guys this is bitcoin- nothing has or hasn't happened until at least 12 confirms!

If people are going to be testing lightenings- speak up
If people are expecting to beta test mammoths- speak up (I was asked if I'd like to, I declined for various reasons)

I want to believe as well, but will give the benefit of doubt (but no cash) until there is a failure to provide proof.

CAN-ELECTRIC has clearly turned out to be a scam. No feed back from that website. However multiverse has been taking the time to reply to emails.

I'm giving them a chance to deliver proof before giving up.

That is fine when the first asic arrives he will come off the suspected scammer list.

Great! This thread is now about cats holding their breath.

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=32885.0;attach=12446;image

On one received their units yet? And the owner is still not out of newb heaven?  Well i am placing an order for 50 of these bad boys right now!

I've ordered one as mentioned and should have it around the week of the 11th (they said max of 8 days from ordered, which was Sunday the 3rd). They have also mentioned that I should be on the beta of the Mammoth as well, so from what I understand that should be shipping out near the end of the month.

If / When I get the device (and I know people don't expect me to) I will be posting pics and video of it working.  As I've said before I decided to take the leap of faith as it was only $75.

Phil

I am guessing BittenBob didn't fit their version of a forum member with large amount of posts or a good rep?  He stated he already contacted them and has not heard a reply (or if he has he hasn't mentioned it here or I missed it).  Seems like he would be a great candidate, and even offered to travel to their HQ???  Why are you asking for forum members when you have a solid one contacting you?

Do us all a favour and get one to BittenBob FAST FAST, if you did that and he verified it I can imagine a ton of credibility and sales to follow...

 

Does anyone actually believe they'll be getting anything?

Anyone taking bets that they will be able to deliver an actual device doing 4 GH/s and consuming 4.5 watts?

If you do, I'll take your bet.

I sent an email inquiring about being a tester, here's the response I just received...

same

They are just buying time, allowing more people to fall for it and get scammed. I will eat my socks if this is legit.

Agreed.  Everything is set up to collapse next week.  Their (or his?) hope is to keep the veil in place until then and snare some marks in the interim.  Unfortunately the veil has a lot of holes.

Unfortunately for them the fervor that surrounded the earlier ASIC preorders didn't happen, probably partly due to those entities failure to deliver as advertised.  They had probably hoped that the delays would benefit them, but it seems to have had the opposite effect.  Also the sudden outpouring of other similar scams is dilluting the scam targets and perhaps even make them more wary.

 
Excuse me?? I was born in beautiful Akron, Ohio (got out young!) but my dad still lives there and it is not a very big city.  My father will be there!  I almost hit the floor when I read this.

Akron Ohio  nothing happens in Akron.....wait the Soap Box Derby.  Met Evel Kneivel there once as a kid.

This.

If these people are from Akron, OH a lot of things make more sense to me, ya all.

Do they even have Internet in Akron OH?  ???

apparently.... yes

I do email my dad but I think its all dial up

Same goes in this thread.

Here i propose to all the wanna be players in the asic products game which are yet to show their machines working.

If you mean business make pc board layer scheme open source, or stop doing what you do. Miners with funds to invest will never fall for just images without any viable confirmation.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p227/wizzerd911/butterfly-labs_zps5027bc4e.jpg

would beg to differ.

Plenty of fans do seal the deal, even though advertised energy consumption is so little that it can be easily handled with less than 18 fans..

And I will watch while jacking off with Trendon Shaver's dick in and out of my ear. The other ear saved for the highest bidder.

I'm not a wordsmith, but this dude's (and yes there's only one) writing style reeks, just as mine would/does in Gavin's eyes, as his would in some Literary Laureate's eyes, albeit the latter would pass the Grey Poupon.

EDIT: I edited the above at least three times after posting it, and it still sucks. These ass-wipes don't even take the time to edit once pre- or post-post.

All US orders are backed up!

              --------------ATTENTION----------------
We are too backed up on US shipping, to accept any more US purchases.  We should be accepting US purchases in 24 to 48hrs.  International Orders are not affected at this time.  Terminals for US Orders are closed during this time

I did wonder why they did accept CC? You have at least 30days to dispute purchases. Does a merchant still get paid if it is disputed?

Speculation- (I've had no information about this, just guessing)

The Mammoth Miner 280k will be a board running 64 chips producing 4.4ghs with small heat sinks and maybe fans. COuld be one big heat sink like Avalong with cross flow (but then the chips on one end will be warmer than the other end)
Would probably only need 300w to run and give a total of >280ghs
Pricing would hopefully be closer to $4500 than $5000 for a full system
Available as a naked board with no case/psu (cheaper) or mounted into a desk or rack mount case. Actually would be cool if it were a board with 1 large heat sink etc-wouldn't look as clunky as all those naked FPGAs! You could stack them with stand offs and just point a desk fan at them!!
would not be stand alone
power would come off 2-3 PCI-e 6 pins

You haven't been around long eh?

Still says not up here?  This really means they are not taking CC anymore, which adds to the doubt here.

What doubt?
I dont have any.

Well at this point it's only gonna take me about $10 to find out with the price of BTC.  That is not a bad bet really.

..... I'm not sure what you don't understand about the fact that there are no lightning asics..
 ::)

They did also say that they could only handle producing 90 or so a week. So maybe unlike other firms they are only taking orders for what they can produce. Which would be a first.

Phil

That sure is a nice thought but then how come international orders can still be placed?  I mean either they have them to ship or they don't.  I am not seeing a realistic reason to cut off US orders and still allow international ones (ESPECIALLY FROM A US COMPANY)?  The only difference I see is the ability to pay by CC, and I can guess why they would not want any CC orders...

The merchant is usually credited immediately.  Since this is a short term scam (it will fall apart when promises of shipments to community members don't materialize and the promised info/evidence/summit prove to be bogus/nonexistent), my guess is they plan to cut and run with the money, leaving the card handling company with no way to recover the funds to pay the chargeback.

The message above (where did it come from?) appears to be another transparent effort to lend legitimacy to the scam.  If they are backed up and not taking orders, that sure sounds like a legit company doing major business, right?  Wrong.  How would not taking US orders for 24 to 48 hours help a legitmate business get their shipping back log resolved?  And are none of these supposed shipments going to community members?

My recommendation is to let this thread die, only to be resurrected in the highly unlikely event that a Lightning Miner is found in the wild.  I don't think I can top some of the other self inflicted wagers in this thread, but I too will eat my shorts if one ever is.

So Phil, you should have your tracking number within 24 to 48 hours once they clear of their shipping backlog.  If it doesn't come, I think we can put a nail in this coffin.

I'm holding out a glimmer of hope for you, but I'm sorry to say I don't see it happenining.

Yes, if I don't get a tracking number withing the next couple (say friday at the latest) I will assume it is more likely a loss cause.

Phil

not entirely sure what is going on in this thread just came across Akron being mentioned.

but if anythings public i could take a trip to akron it's only 45 minute-hour tops away and i even drive through enough to stop once

As stated I am originally from there. SHHHH!!  And my dad would go check it out.  If they do release the info.

Holy christ,

I'm sorry, but anyone who buys one of these 100% deserves to lose their money.

It's such an obvious scam its ridiculous.

Or are they?

By far.

There's something to be said for hedging, as in ordering form everyone offering an ASIC just in case it's not a scam, but it'll get pretty expensive the more supposed vendors pop up.

The network hashrate has only increased by about 9 Thps since Feb 1.

That doesn't leave room for many "satisfied customers". In fact, after ASICMiner, that leaves about 74 Avalons added to the network.

Network hashrate data just doesn't support any new and unaccounted for sources of hashes.

I went to Akron once, that was enough

I was born there...got out when I was 12 though.

Oh and btw due to and error by Mt. Gox these guys are sending me a LM 4.0 for free.  So I guess time will tell now.

-------------------------------
Community Chest

BANK ERROR
IN YOUR FAVOR
COLLECT LIGHTNING MINER
--------------------------------

You've got a better chance of owning Park Place than receiving an LM 4.0!!!

LOL cha ching....no skin off my back either way now is it?

I took an $80 gamble - I will keep you guys updated....

We bitcoiners are perfect targets for scams. Ready to throw an $80 dollars gamble to the equivalent of a "less than 1" gamble in satoshidice (0.0015% of chances to succeed).

You just have to promise immediately available GHashes, register a website, claim to be a non-existent company with non-existent history, fake 8 or 9 comments from "old" customers that never existed before, and immediately after you will have a consistent number of bitcoiners ready to take that gamble.

But the house always win.

I wager one barrel of Apfelschorle that one or more persons that registered on Bitcoin Forum around the time these scamsics (could that catch on? seems awkward) appeared will "receive" a scamsic and oddly will be unable to produce any proof other than vague statements about the large amount of BC they are bit mining.

Meanwhile long standing forum members (those that paid and those that were selected as beta testers) will receive nothing.

Date Registered:    Today at 02:51:53 AM

Yeah, I wouldnt be surprised at all if you will "win" your "gamble". Kinda curious what rubbish proof you will post though.

hehehe you dont have to believe me, I'm half expecting not to even receive the damn thing.

to be honest the thing that worries me is the pictures on the website look like radio shack project boxes with stickers on them.

I ordered it with my credit card and I will instantly charge it back if it does not arrive or is fake once it does... I figure with the protection from my CC company I mine as well try - im way too late in the game to order from BFL.

lol Maybe I will just say it didnt arrive and order more for myself. I decided since I was making the plunge and ordering an actual miner I mine as well make an account and join this seemingly incredibly sarcastic and hostile community. Ive been lurking without an account for about a year - I dont really have time to be a full time member so it was never a big deal for me.


Just forget I said anything at all. jeeesh

Mine is free can't see the harm either way.  I will eat crow most happily when it never shows.  I wonder if people will be so fair if it does show.

I hope it does show.  I will celebrate by drinking a case of Apfelschorle.

Please post in this Meta Thread so we can get some moderator attention about these potential and likely scams:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=149441.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=149441.0)

9 pages! really?

in post #7 I told you that this is simply a switch with some stickers to cover up the fact that it is a switch. I thought that would be the end of it, maybe some jokes and lulz to be had, but I could not believe that anyone would fall for this one. I should have known better.


Let me spell it out for you, (those of you that ordered)

There is never any picture of the back of the device, because you'd be able to see the network ports.

see? ->http://images.highspeedbackbone.net/skuimages/large/D700-2490_chiclet01_aa_2077111.jpg
_______________________________________________________________________________ ________________________

Also, there is never any picture of the front without the sticker because then you'd see the activity and port speed leds.

see? ->http://i01.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v0/517894779/New-5-Ports-10100Mbps-Fast-font-b-Ethernet-b-font-Network-font-b-Switch-b-font.jpg
_______________________________________________________________________________


compare this ->https://www.homestead.com/~site/ecomm/media/image/77794/xl
_____________________________________________________________________________

and this ->http://m2.sourcingmap.com/smapimg/en/n/10a/port-10100mbps-ethernet-network-switch-power-adapter-64811n.jpg



at least I have some admiration of the primeasic guys. They at least made an impressive effort to be believable; but if you fall for some teenage kid, throwing some stickers on a bloody five dollar switch and backing it up with some pics and vids that are very careful never to show the back of the device (or the front without the sticker covering) then go ahead and send your money in. I have absolutely no sympathy for you.

I mean, come on people, this isn't even a box of fans, it's a freakin' switch with stickers!

Yeah, it's like 50-50. They either have them or they don't, right?

You forgot to picture a Jalapeno here. They too resemble these.

I will give them until Tuesday when their facility is open for inspection.  Then I will pass judgement.

I would be such a jaw-dropper for the community if this turned out to be legit...  :o
I know, I know it is like 1:1000 probability (well at least this is what I give it) for that but still would be funny to see the reaction.

Probability of legitimacy: 1:+Inf

There are no unaccounted sources of new hashes added to the network. Unless they are lying about their "satisfied customers".

It would be funny if it's legit.  I will look forward to hearing what the h8ters say.  Can everything be a scam just because this forum was not aware of it?  I have talked to CS a lot. He states a very good case and has very good answers for everything at least.  I gotta give em that.

I too called this crap at the start now I am unsure and it's gonna be free for me.  So no blood no foul for me.

I don't think people believe it's a scam because they weren't aware of it.

It's a scam because it didn't exist prior to a few days ago even though they claim to be around for years, the scamster has provided no proof of anything, has refused to provide simple information (eg what's your old website that I've heard so much about), falsified reviews on his website, offers free units to anyone that criticizes him to try to buy their support, posted and removed fake unboxings on YT and then says proof will come from user YT videos, isn't mining any of the systems on a public pool, and on and on...

I understand we can try to justify each separate issue as a quirk or misstep, but as a whole why would a legitimate company operate this way?  In totality it makes no sense at all.  A legitimate company could simply provide some very basic information about the company and product to prove they are real.  Why wouldn't they?

Since the mountain of evidence against isn't persuasive, let's turn this around.  Can anyone provide any evidence that indicates this is real?

I don't think you get the point.
This forum is EAGER to see new ASIC companies pop up out of nowhere.
BUT the way this is presented there is no way in the world that this is not a scam.
The way i see it it is a giant 3D sculpture of the word SCAM with a sticker on it that sais 'ASIC'..
The bloody sticker on the front is a huge giveaway, for one.

It is no where near 50%.    Given the technical knowledge needed, capital costs and timing with other releases, the chances are quite low.

This thread is so full of lol. You'd think it's on BitcoinTalk or something.

And to think I traded in your toes for a shadow goat. What was I thinkin'?

Don't you have an exchange to worry about?

What's to worry?

What's a shadow goat and where can I get one?

It's a goat that's transmuted by blue glowing marble cake and i've got one in my back yard.
They don't come cheap tho...

Make sure the shades are drawn when you play with your shadow goat, sans the goat.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRJs2pa8EkaE5kK_lVuhnd2VYsHXTEAhwOLQxo35hwoadJ6t8BW

That's actually pretty damn awesome.

I'm having problems making the shadow match the picture.

Well today was the day they were supposed to have an open house of their facility in Akron, OH.  Well no address was ever released and no reply from CS all day.

So I feel pleasantly happy now that my order got screwed up and I will be getting my BTC back.  I guess some of you others aren't so lucky.  

And if you are one of "7 Bitcoin New Group Affiliates" that are checking out the facility please send us picture. right.

they are a total scam

I ordered they told me they would have my tracking number to me last thursday now they wont even reply to emails.

i took an 80$ gamble and lost - my own fault for being stupid but let this be a warning to you - please no one else fall for this scam

it is not real

Pictures or it didn't happen.

I have a lot of emails from CS pleading their case and swearing that all would be revealed today.  I just see no need to beat the dead horse.

What if you are just trolling so others don't buy because you already have the miner in your hands?

Or... wtf... there are people that actually sent them money... wow.

If I had a miner chuggin' away I post pix and vids just so I could enjoy the hate that would be thrown my way, sadly though this is not to be.  I was more hoping to see something good come from Akron,Oh. :)

You took a gamble with only 0.00015% possibilities of success. We posted several times warning that his was a 100% proved scam.

Who is we? How/when was this 100% proven scam.

From almost day 1, when:

- a fake company that never existed before registered a brand new website saying it replaced and old one of which there was no trace on internet
- offered a product that never existed before for which they said they had happy customers, which are obviously fake

If you doubt this is a scam there are 2 options:

a) you did not read the full thread and you did not take the time to verify the facts
b) it benefits you to spread the doubt so others who do not read the full post and do not verify the facts are scammed

I will now say scam, I took a leap of faith on it but no info since last week, and I should have received it today.

But I still think people on the forum are too quick to scream scam.

At the moment I'm down $80 on this, but the bigger scam I'm waiting on is still bfl, who seem to get away with it. I've been waiting since July last year for my device, still nothing coming, and just some photos. No real device.

Yes u will say that they have launched devices before but so did Tom, and I had a mod miner which worked well. But he failed on 2nd gen and so has bfl so far.

Phil

The thing is that no company capable of producing an ASIC would ever ever behave in such a peculiar manner.

No, they haven't.

Can't wait to see the scammer tag applied to this one-post clown.

Kinda puts theymos in a pickle, for he'll have no choice but tag this guy sooner than later. Yet, he took a while to give it to Tom. Then the BFL naysayers will come out of the woodwork and...

Not to mention the other two recent ASIC-based mining rig entities.

I'm even leaning toward all three being run by the same folk(s), and it's not even outside the realm of possibility the creator is a previous, or ongoing, ASIC-based mining rig developer.

I actually meant BFL on that last comment.

Phil

Oh.

Ignore my comment then.

And you proved all this? stfu

I proved they could not have possibly had any previous happy customers, for a start.

Proved what? Something about hash rates?  All circumstantial.  But it doesn't really matter now does it.

Not circumstantial. It was impossible that anyone had added significant unknown hashrate.

What sort of proof would you accept?

You just do not understand/know definition of PROOF that is why you cannot agree...
What you are giving us is PREMISE and they all do make sense.

I can give you one PREMISE that was against scum theory:
http://www.wezlanator.com/used-laptop/laptop-fan-used-for-lightning-miner-4-0 (http://www.wezlanator.com/used-laptop/laptop-fan-used-for-lightning-miner-4-0)

By the time it was published video was also available...
Now:
1. Blog that is online for a long time and very active.
2. Domain registered 2006!
3. Why would he/she participate in such a scum in such a way - much easier to trace?

Now I'm not saying it PROOFS anything...

No, it was a proof.

Premise: The company is not lying/scamming

Proof:
1. The website states that they have had a significant number of satisfied customers.
2. If these customers had been mining with high hashrate devices, the network hashrate would have increased significantly.
3. The increase in network hashrate from Februrary up to the point I first posted in the thread is completed accounted for by known sources.
4. Assuming the premise is true, either:
     i. Their customers all purchased prior to February 1, and none after. This is clearly impossible - if this product was real, customers would be lined up forever from the moment it was available. Further, a gap in production is ruled out by the website itself: "One of the other benefits of ordering from us is you won't have to wait a 2-4 months for our ASIC products."
    ii. They didn't have significant numbers of customers, or the customers did not buy significant hashrate products.  The former, if true, would have proved the company lying about their previous satisfied customers, and  would there fore be scamming. The latter is impossible - the distribution of expenditure on ASICs will always show a significant number of purchasers buy the expensive, high hashrate items.
5. Since 4 i. and 4 ii. are proven false, the premise is proven false. Thefore the company is a proven scammer.

You may disagree with my proof, and you are welcome to falsify it. But I have provided a proof, not a premise.

Also, note that I did not feel the need to use all-caps anywhere in this post. It makes for easier reading.

You are disagreeing with my proof. Therfore you think it is a proof.

You were wrong, go on, admit it.

Giving up so quickly? I'm disappointed but at the same time positively surprised :)

Non-sequitur. There is no "giving up" in the statement "You were wrong, go on, admit it".

You stated I had not provided a proof. I explain the proof in detail. You agree it is a proof, not a premise. I win. There is nothing more to discuss. All your base are belong to us, etc.

The above is "giving up" (in a teenage way).

I listed several reasons why what you call "proof" does not proof anything - you never addressed any of these instead claiming the above.

*Sigh*. Because your entire original claim was that my proof wasn't a proof but a premise. I proved you wrong.

You falsifying my proof is another matter entirely, which I will not address until the original dispute is resolved.

Well, I have to agree it's not "proof," it's actually "evidence."  The evidence is strong, to the point of being definitive, but from a technical/legal perspective, you can't really call it proof.

Although, I think from a scientific definition, you might be able to classify it as a proof... (Yes, proof means different things to a lawyer than it does to a scientist).  This seems more of a legal issue than a scientific one, so you'd kind of have to use the legal definition in this instance, and this doesn't qualify. 

Claiming it's not a scam, though, would be patently absurd.

Am I missing something or is tadzio defending the Lightning Miner outfit?

I think he is more defending the fact that he himself was actually scammed out of money here.

Looks like their phone number is no longer working... disconnected or do you think they ran with all the money they scammed from people?

Ummm, read the thread bro, this is about as cut and dry as they come man.

They were meant to be having a tour with a bitcoin media outlet-anybody followed up with this?

How many bitcoin mags are there in the US?-which ones are based closest to multiverse's location?

Has any publications said anything about multiverse? Has anybody asked?

Are they going to invent their own tour group?

The horse is dead why keep beating it?

Perhaps not dead, just currently between two ivory cell towers.

they are a scam for real.

I spent $80 to find out this hard lesson

my asic blue balls got the better of me :/


their payment processor is intuit

if you want your money back contact them.


if you paid in bitcoin well ... lol sorry but you wont see them again

For those curious, I ordered some of these on the small chance they were legit since I knew I could just dispute the charge if it was a scam. Today when I went to dispute the charge I learned that they never charged my account and instead issued a REFUND. I called the credit card company and they were confused and said as of now they have GIVEN me $$ since there was no initial charge and only the refund. I assume this will be corrected but thought that it was interesting :P

lol. Close your account. You can use it to pay those that actually got scammed.