Bitcoin Forum

A witness-indistinguishable proof (WIP) is a variant of a zero-knowledge proof for languages in NP. In a typical zero-knowledge proof of a statement, the prover will use a witness for the statement as input to the protocol, and the verifier will learn nothing other than the truth of the statement. In a WIP, this zero-knowledge condition is weakened, and the only guarantee is that the verifier will not be able to distinguish between provers that use different witnesses. In particular, the protocol may leak information about the set of all witnesses, or even leak the witness that was used when there is only one possible witness.

Witness-indistinguishable proof systems were first introduced by Feige and Shamir.[1] Unlike zero-knowledge proofs, they remain secure when multiple proofs are being performed concurrently.

First of all, thank you for all of your messages. They are really documented and very interesting. We will give further details below:


Here are the main results of our simulations. We will try to keep it clear and easy for everyone. Please feel free to ask for further details. The idea here is to test three approaches: ZK-Snarks (3), recursive-ZK-Snakrs (2) (linearisation), and WPI (1).

As a benchmark, we used a simple DAG. We then simulated transactions/nodes and calculated the time needed.

https://image.ibb.co/d3DjA7/1516471445_finalresultsazulik.jpg

On the left, you can see that (among the three approaches) one allows to have transaction time really close to the simple DAG (without privacy). We can confirm these results with the figure on the right where we plotted the difference against the benchmark.


So, here we are, we have selected the Privacy protocol we will apply. We still have some analysis to do, but we are very confident with this approach.

Azulik will be the first Freemium cryptocurrency.
You’ll be able to realise instant, fee-less transactions, and adding privacy will only requiere a very small fee. Read below because what we have to show you is amazing.

First, we need to understand the issue, Raiblocks uses DPOS (delegated proof of stake), hence having complete privacy would hide users’ balances and break the whole DPOS system. The idea is to have two wallets: one public and one private.
So, you are wondering: If  I have the choice, I could put all my Azulik in the private wallet and the DPOS wouldn’t work anymore .

Yes, you are right and that’s why we need an intencive to make people stay in the public wallet and participate in the DPOS. All the fees collected through private transactions will be sent back to the user depending on their Azulik balance.

It means that keeping your Azulik in your public wallet, even if you don’t do transactions, will return you a percentage of the daily fees spent on the private network. One percent of the transaction fees will be split between the nodes, hence you will get paid to run the node. The other 99% will be redistributed to the network. Assuming that the portfolio weight is distributed like a Gaussian law and that the number of transactions is  equal or higher to the number of  users, we can say that, on average, you’ll get 99% of your fees back.  

So even if the fee is very low (and probably dynamic depending on the number of nodes on the network), you’ll get back a lot of the fees you pay for you private transactions. Remember, it’s  still free and instant to send or receive Azulik with your public wallet.



https://image.ibb.co/dLVmOS/1516527377_azulikproject.jpg


The main upside is that we will have a natural anti-spam protocol for private transactions, hence we can remove the POW to sending or receiving. It also means that it will make transactions even faster so they can be used in the mobile wallet.

Let’s take an example: You reveive your salary in your public wallet, then you send a part of your salary to your private wallet that you call Shopping Wallet.

Usually with Raiblocks, when you pay for a coffee, the bar can check your balance, where the money came from, and so on. Here, you can use you private wallet to pay and nothing will appear. Your transaction will be shown on the public wallet, but there is no link between the public and private wallet so it’s impossible to know who owns any given public wallet.

We believe this is the most elegant way to apply privacy on a DAG DPOS protocol
Do not hesitate to ask all the questions or concerns you may have, we would be happy to provide further details.


To summarise:

- We have designed and tested our privacy protocol
- Azulik will be more decentralized than Raiblocks
- It will be as fast as raiblocks for both private and public transactions
- Engage loyal users with daily rewards
- Very small fee for private transactions
- On average: private transactions are almost free

What next:

Here, you have everything you need to understand Azulik. We know you want a proper whitepaper and to see some code.

We can say that we will be able to deliver a proper whitepaper in about a month. Regarding the code, we will have to find a secure way to show you. As you know, there are other projects aiming to do the same thing and, in months, they proposed/delivered nothing new besides "We will merge Zk-Snarks and Raiblocks.” We like open source projects but we don't want our hard work to be stolen. So, in a bit of time, I think we will have a clearer picture about these two other projects and we will be able to deliver code. However, on our side, we will start implementing Azulik. To be honest, we can't expect the first test to be done before two or three months.

Currently we haven't really dig the distribution process, it's not the top priority as of today. We have to define the supply, the part given to the contributors, the team and through faucet.
 
We will study all of your propositions, and the preliminary supply will be 666 millions coins.


All of this above isn't definitive and could be updated. Furthermore all donation should be considered as donation nothing more


At the moment, we want Azulik to work as soon as possible.

So basically this is simply a copy of RaiBlocks with a privacy feature added? hmm look like a very interesting project.

I'll be waiting for the whitepaper and more information regarding this, sounds pretty promising!

By the way, what is the total supply of this coin? Thank you dev.

I will be following this project,I think privacy coins are going to be big this year (also DAG coins)
In case you ever needed translations,I'm reserving Turkish translations.

Your preliminary work looks very impressive, i like the way you explain that simply adding ZK-SNARKs won't solve the problem and you are really thinking about an alternative.

I will closely follow this project which seem very promising and professional.

Great idea guys!
Will it be POS or POW or POS/POW? Are there any thoughts on mining algos/masternodes etc.
I was too late to reserve Turkish translations, so I am reserving Czech, if you need.

I have followed your project and I am quite excited, I need some more background information on the upcoming activities of the project to decide on investing in it. Hope you can share some more information here so that other investors can follow and support your project.

Hi can you make this coin possible for mining. It will get more support.

Two engineers sounds interesting, but the roadmap must be huge?

I had an old monero wallet, i sent you the whole balance as i believe it will be more useful.

Very proud to be the first donator to the Azulik project !!!

Azulik aims to be Raiblocks with privacy.
We may make some changes to the Raiblocks protocol, but in the end, we want to offer a decentralised, fee-less, anonymous, and instant cryptocurrency.

Who are we ?

We are two colleagues, two engineers working at a famous tech company. One of our friends in the company will join us in the near future to work on the project management, marketing, and exchange listings.

Here’s a little bit about us:

There is nothing really sexy about it. We are rather young guys who graduated from very good universities. The skinny one is better at C++ than he is with girls and the fat one doesn't remember the last time he played a sport.

You won't know more about us than that, though, because our company's compliance rules don't allow outside of business activities. Hence, we wouldn't take the risk of being fired.

We have been in the blockchain and crypto world for years. We followed the development of XRB and we have been fascinated with Colin's work. Especially this epic thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1219264.0) that none of us understand…Don't worry, we are joking!

Why Azulik ?

We like Colin, he is certainly super smart, but we have read somewhere (and they were reported words) that adding privacy to Raiblocks wasn't possible.

When we saw that, we thought: “Challenge accepted!”

We started to work on it. We dug a bit into the problem and we would like to offer a potential solution we found.

Yes, we aim to build a decentralized, fee-less, and instant cryptocurrency.

But, most of all, we believe that privacy is an amazing touch to add to it.

Give us more details !
In a nutshell we show that applying Zero Knowledge proof (ZK-SNARKs) to DAG is something feasible. At this stage we believe that the privacy feature and instant transaction aren't compatible, however we think about making private transaction an option allowing to handle instant transaction or full privacy. But for sure it's a more complex problem than just apply SNARKs to Raiblocks, our next direction is to check the feasability to apply witness-indistinguishable proof.

(wikipedia)

We believe that applying WIP to Raiblocks could be the solution to have both instant and fee-less transaction. Furthermore given to Witness-Indistinguishability Against Quantum Adversaries (https://www.scottaaronson.com/showcase/raluca.pdf) it would also be possible to make Azulik quantum resistant, which is currently not our priority.

For more details check our whitepaper first draft (http://docdro.id/RRkVHFR). We know it's still very light as we have been mainly working on the privacy feature for the moment but expect updates frequently.


Here’s what’s next:

• Finishing a proper whitepaper
• Discussing other potential solutions or improvements with you guys
• In the meantime, working on the coding
• Sharing advancements with you on Github
• Working a bit on the marketing (website, logo, etc.)
• A functional wallet

Distribution:

It's very early to speak about the distribution as we expect months of work ahead, especially because we are busy with our daily work at the office, but we would like to find a very fun, fair, and new way to distribute Azulik. Any ideas?


Can i help ?

Of course you can, we are always interested in people having expertise and wanting to share, do not hesitate to contact us and give us your toughs, concerns, comments or complaints. If you have no expertise in this field hence you can motivate us if you are as excited by the project as we are.  

Donation:

If you guys are excited, liked the small piece of work we offer you today, and want to see more, or if you can't wait for the release of Azulik and you want us to reveal our identity and leave our job to work full-time on it, do not hesitate to donate.

We will update the list (or tell us for remaining anonymous), all donation will be very appreciated and we will remember it when we finally release Azulik! (and we secretly expect to leave our job and work full time on Azulik as it's much more interesting) .

• Bitcoin: 1E6HaTHMwdWsQEPHyMoiNHyxTjKzAXC8sU
• Litecoin: LQcsBj8e9jHHdFyG6cZLCzPpzC5ydnJQKj
• Ethereum: 0x21D0241bf0aB261D52c10767c89Bc9F764472167
• Monero: 44MyZttQH891CTTA8Gg71Cdh68zfUs28WGGynFzcpePiLuE2weVenAVRGfFzjzcusKe2qYUYCGqXk31 mNjG3QqkLKMdm7UU
• Raiblocks: xrb_1dtmp1g9rfkusja6ogpktazgt846kj4ett6afwowpu8xz6wq8kimergzkrug

Thanks for reading.

Azulik Project

What about Stone project, which is exactly what you're saying you want to do?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2581762.new;topicseen#new

I've been experimenting with the idea of using zkSNARKs

Stone project argues:
At this stage we confirm that Colin's words were right, it's not possible to apply privacy to XRB as we kown it today ( zkSNARKs).

Adding the privacy feature is harder than it may look, simply applying a ZK-SNARKs protocol (the underlying protocol of Zcash) would make the transaction time increase a lot.

That why we are currently working on two approaches:

  

• Having an optional privacy feature, allowing to have instant transaction or privacy
    
• WPI (witness-indistinguishable proof ) approach which for us would be the best way to have both instant transaction and privacy

We hope to confirm very soon that using WPI would highly decrease the transaction time. We are currently working on simulation right now.

What about Stone project, which is exactly what you're saying you want to do?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2581762.new;topicseen#new

Distribution:

It's very early to speak about the distribution as we expect months of work ahead, especially because we are busy with our daily work at the office, but we would like to find a very fun, fair, and new way to distribute Azulik. Any ideas?


Can i help ?

Of course you can, we are always interested in people having expertise and wanting to share, do not hesitate to contact us and give us your toughs, concerns, comments or complaints. If you have no expertise in this field hence you can motivate us if you are as excited by the project as we are.  

I loved the faucet from XRB, so that might be the way. So everyone is equal.

I am also following Stone and really excited about ur approach. Good luck and i would also like to support u guys.

Cheers,
Jack

What is AZULIK ?

Azulik aims to be Raiblocks with privacy.
We may make some changes to the Raiblocks protocol, but in the end, we want to offer a decentralised, fee-less, anonymous, and instant cryptocurrency.

At this stage we confirm that Colin's words were right, it's not possible to apply privacy to XRB as we kown it today ( zkSNARKs).

Adding the privacy feature is harder than it may look, simply applying a ZK-SNARKs protocol (the underlying protocol of Zcash) would make the transaction time increase a lot.

That why we are currently working on two approaches:

    Having an optional privacy feature, allowing to have instant transaction or privacy
      
    WPI (witness-indistinguishable proof ) approach which for us would be the best way to have both instant transaction and privacy


See below and our whitepaper for details.

Do you guys have to make the privacy an option?
Imo, real privacy come when it's not optional.
Look at Monero and some optional privacy coins. When we choose to make it private, it stand out of the pack and make it a "target", doing the opposite job of privacy.

Monero make all transactions private so it's fungible. This projects should aim the same, no?

Interesting to look at the discord, it's like we really work on the project :D, of course we do, hours and hours.

https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2018/02/7/1515949192-discordazulik.png
(Thanks Flater for the screenshot)


Glad you think we are legit.

Three similar projects: Stone, Manta and now AZULIK now. Same idea and same contribution Scheme.
All of them don't show any initial draft of the Whitepaper or any code to view. Why?
Good luck

You should check one message above  :).

On top of that Azulik has a completly different approach, they don't say like the two other project we will merge zkSNARKs and DAG  without more explanation. Here they argue it's no possible and propose two alternative.

So basically this is simply a copy of RaiBlocks with a privacy feature added? Look like a very interesting project.I'll be waiting for the whitepaper and more information regarding this, sounds pretty promising.By the way, what is the total supply of this coin? I will closely follow this project which seem very promising and professional.

The purpose is adding anonimity function to raiblocks.
But already exist aidos kuneen is DAG+anonimity.
so i think its not innovative.

Then again, devs needs to show the initial Draft of the Whitepaper and some basic code

You can already have a look at the very first draft of our whitepaper.

The total supply will be high enough to allow daily use in real life. We believe that if you pay your coffee you prefer to pay 2 Azulik  rather than 0,000000012 Azulik it's much more adapted to human brain.



We don't really know much about Aidos is it instant and fee-less with high scalability ?


The first draft of our whitepaper can be accessed from the red link in the announcement post. I understand that using a red link is maybe not the best way, we will fixe it. Regarding the code, we have code regarding our way to handle the privacy. We will share it of course.

Very good Thanks. My turn to do some homework (read the whitepaper). Please post any source code ASAP.
Thanks

I like this idea. The distribution of coins should be long enough and complex so that as many people as possible can get them. It is important that the distribution can not be automated for dishonest collection.

Hopefully the project will get the same success as Raiblocks, the privacy is very important asset.

What is AZULIK ?

Azulik aims to be Raiblocks with privacy.
We may make some changes to the Raiblocks protocol, but in the end, we want to offer a decentralised, fee-less, anonymous, and instant cryptocurrency.

At this stage we confirm that Colin's words were right, it's not possible to apply privacy to XRB as we kown it today ( zkSNARKs).

Adding the privacy feature is harder than it may look, simply applying a ZK-SNARKs protocol (the underlying protocol of Zcash) would make the transaction time increase a lot.

That why we are currently working on two approaches:

• Having an optional privacy feature, allowing to have instant transaction or privacy
    
• WPI (witness-indistinguishable proof ) or recursive zkSNARKs approach which for us would be the best way to have both instant transaction and privacy

See below and our whitepaper for details.

Who are we ?

We are two colleagues, two engineers working at a famous tech company. One of our friends in the company will join us in the near future to work on the project management, marketing, and exchange listings.

Here’s a little bit about us:

There is nothing really sexy about it. We are rather young guys who graduated from very good universities. The skinny one is better at C++ than he is with girls and the fat one doesn't remember the last time he played a sport.

You won't know more about us than that, though, because our company's compliance rules don't allow outside of business activities. Hence, we wouldn't take the risk of being fired.

We have been in the blockchain and crypto world for years. We followed the development of XRB and we have been fascinated with Colin's work. Especially this epic thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1219264.0) that none of us understand…Don't worry, we are joking!

Why Azulik ?

We like Colin, he is certainly super smart, but we have read somewhere (and they were reported words) that adding privacy to Raiblocks wasn't possible.

When we saw that, we thought: “Challenge accepted!”

We started to work on it. We dug a bit into the problem and we would like to offer a potential solution we found.

Yes, we aim to build a decentralized, fee-less, and instant cryptocurrency.

But, most of all, we believe that privacy is an amazing touch to add to it.

Give us more details !

In a nutshell we show that applying Zero Knowledge proof (ZK-SNARKs) to DAG is something feasible. At this stage we believe that the privacy feature and instant transaction aren't compatible, however we think about making private transaction an option allowing to handle instant transaction or full privacy. But for sure it's a more complex problem than just apply SNARKs to Raiblocks, our next direction is to check the feasability to apply witness-indistinguishable proof.

(wikipedia)

We believe that applying WIP to Raiblocks could be the solution to have both instant and fee-less transaction. Furthermore given to Witness-Indistinguishability Against Quantum Adversaries (https://www.scottaaronson.com/showcase/raluca.pdf) it would also be possible to make Azulik quantum resistant, which is currently not our priority.

For more details check our whitepaper first draft by clicking here (http://docdro.id/RRkVHFR). We know it's still very light as we have been mainly working on the privacy feature for the moment but expect updates frequently.


Here’s what’s next:

• Finishing a proper whitepaper
• Discussing other potential solutions or improvements with you guys
• In the meantime, working on the coding
• Sharing advancements with you on Github
• Working a bit on the marketing (website, logo, etc.)
• A functional wallet

Distribution:

It's very early to speak about the distribution as we expect months of work ahead, especially because we are busy with our daily work at the office, but we would like to find a very fun, fair, and new way to distribute Azulik. Any ideas?


Can i help ?

Of course you can, we are always interested in people having expertise and wanting to share, do not hesitate to contact us and give us your toughs, concerns, comments or complaints. If you have no expertise in this field hence you can motivate us if you are as excited by the project as we are.  

Donation:

If you guys are excited, liked the small piece of work we offer you today, and want to see more, or if you can't wait for the release of Azulik and you want us to reveal our identity and leave our job to work full-time on it, do not hesitate to donate.

We will update the list (or tell us for remaining anonymous), all donation will be very appreciated and we will remember it when we finally release Azulik! (and we secretly expect to leave our job and work full time on Azulik as it's much more interesting) .

• Bitcoin: 1E6HaTHMwdWsQEPHyMoiNHyxTjKzAXC8sU
• Litecoin: LQcsBj8e9jHHdFyG6cZLCzPpzC5ydnJQKj
• Ethereum: 0x21D0241bf0aB261D52c10767c89Bc9F764472167
• Monero: 44MyZttQH891CTTA8Gg71Cdh68zfUs28WGGynFzcpePiLuE2weVenAVRGfFzjzcusKe2qYUYCGqXk31 mNjG3QqkLKMdm7UU
• Raiblocks: xrb_1dtmp1g9rfkusja6ogpktazgt846kj4ett6afwowpu8xz6wq8kimergzkrug

Thanks for reading.

Azulik Project

Seems promising, although I think you should think of a better name of your project, I don't know if it's just me, but AZULIK doesn't sound cool. Your project strong points is that it tries to be a currency that is fast and anonymous, so you should probably think of a name that describe this aspect of your project.

I think airdrops are not good for fair distributions because most people who will get these airdrops are not interested in the project but rather just looking for a way to sell it.

Raiblock's distribution was great because people who believed in Raiblock had to waste a lot of time to accumulate XRB, these people we will the hodlers that actually believe in the project and thus support the price.

My suggest is that you start the distribution as early as you can, even before releasing AZULIK these way you'll give a lot of people the chance to participate.

You should combine multiple systems of Captcha, for example, using pictures, typing words, solving math problems, use a combination of these Captcha to make it impossible for anyone to develop a bot that solve Captcha.

I hope your project succeed, and I will be watching this topic for any new announcement.

The purpose is adding anonimity function to raiblocks.
But already exist aidos kuneen is DAG+anonimity.
so i think its not innovative.

well, to be honest "raiblocks" doesn't sound cool either, and everyone seems to be mispronouncing it as "raiL blocks".

Why don't You Stone guy and XRB Devs collaborate why do u need to make 2 clones of the XRB code ?



 
Also your doing the same thing as stone asking for Donations that go directly into your pocket with no accountability I don't like that.

Regarding the donation yes we will stop it once we reach what we believe is enough to work in good conditions.
All the funds will be blocked in our Dev wallet and we will justify each time we use it (For example for the designer, to develop the website, rent an office for the weekend and some hardware) and keep the rest of the fund for later.

So scam or legit. Why no one trying to start from 0 and just forking existing coins ???

Right now raiblocks having big problems with exchanges. I think why not create unique code and learn the lessons from raiblocks mistakes ?

Unique coin starts from normal, easy to remember name.
Your name is hard to remember.
Dont think AZULIK sounds light and easy to remember.
Also official discord channel is required for community so they can see if that project active.

Need website, whitepaper to show you serious about coin.
Donations will flow after you make something, not just write on forum :)

Is the same people... Look at the donations part, same coins.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2696095.0

how long before it can be released?

Interesting project. There's already DAG with untraceable payments called Byteball, though. Byteball's blackbytes cannot be traced, cauce they're not included in DAG at all. It's cool concept and I think that's the way to achieve the goal of privacy if used via TOR.

It's always nice to see people working with privacy concepts in cryptocurrency, and I think that the zkSNARK' tech is awesome. But implementing such tech to DAG-like systems sounds like a mission.

Another problem is smartphones and light-wallets. We need a currency that has mathematical proof of privacy, but it has to be light enough it can be running in smartphones.

Good luck devs!

Yes. I guess none of these takes escrow, am I right?

Dev,
Could you please use Escrow rather the Dev wallet
Thanks

To be honest given the very small amount of donation we received yet, no need to spend time finding a trustable escrow and pay fees for that. Donation are mainly here to make the project kick out and engage people in the community. The dev wallet will be monitored and nothing will be withdrawn without explaining in details the reason. We already mention what we will do with the donations: Rent an office for weekend work together in peaceful environment, pay for a designer and for a good website and buy some hardware as we can see that our regular computer are very limited for testing our approaches. We would be able to make more simulation and stress-test.

Anyway be ready for the results very soon, i think it will be the first time someone will show you transaction time from a simulated network with three approaches to handle privacy.

We hope to have finish our testing tomorrow or Wednesday.

To be honest given the very small amount of donation we received yet, no need to spend time finding a trustable escrow and pay fees for that. Donation are mainly here to make the project kick out and engage people in the community. The dev wallet will be monitored and nothing will be withdrawn without explaining in details the reason. We already mention what we will do with the donations: Rent an office for weekend work together in peaceful environment, pay for a designer and for a good website and buy some hardware as we can see that our regular computer are very limited for testing our approaches. We would be able to make more simulation and stress-test.

Anyway be ready for the results very soon, i think it will be the first time someone will show you transaction time from a simulated network with three approaches to handle privacy.

We hope to have finish our testing tomorrow or Wednesday.

Good day!
I have reviewed Your white paper, only three pages. Where can I find detailed information? The concept itself interested, but want to know the further planning of the project - marketing, management and technology.

We will soon provide you further details.
Everything is ready, we hope before the end of the week.

Are donators going to receive some coins?

Thanks. Keep up the good work!

We also believe faucet distribution if well done is a fair distribution way.
However solving captcha is a bit boring so we'll try to make it more fun.

Let us know if you have any question.

Regarding the code we will wait a bit, as you mention there is other projects on this niche and even after a month or two they haven't been able to show something, so obviously we don't want our hard work to be stolen from other project. After all we are the most recent one even if we have been working on it for a longer time  ;)

To be honest i wonder if a good captcha can be solved automatically, i have seen this video about XRB, but the weakness was the unlimited number of try. I'm not sure a bot could solve a capcha at the first time, especially if it's a dynamic one (Once with image, once song, once number) for each fail you wait 1 hour.

However i have to say i really like the approach you propose. It's a very good idea.

Also i didn't see mention of account balance privacy, will that happen?

how would people know that this address belongs to you anyway ?? *just sayin*

To be honest i wonder if a good captcha can be solved automatically, i have seen this video about XRB, but the weakness was the unlimited number of try. I'm not sure a bot could solve a capcha at the first time, especially if it's a dynamic one (Once with image, once song, once number) for each fail you wait 1 hour.

However i have to say i really like the approach you propose. It's a very good idea.

First of all, thank you for all of your messages. They are really documented and very interesting. We will give further details below:


Here are the main results of our simulations. We will try to keep it clear and easy for everyone. Please feel free to ask for further details. The idea here is to test three approaches: ZK-Snarks, recursive-ZK-Snakrs (linearisation), and WPI.

As a benchmark, we used a simple DAG. We then simulated transactions/nodes and calculated the time needed.

https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2018/03/6/1516471445-finalresultsazulik.jpg

On the left, you can see that (among the three approaches) one allows to have transaction time really close to the simple DAG (without privacy). We can confirm these results with the figure on the right where we plotted the difference against the benchmark.


So, here we are, we have selected the Privacy protocol we will apply. We still have some analysis to do, but we are very confident with this approach.

Azulik will be the first Freemium cryptocurrency.
You’ll be able to realise instant, fee-less transactions, and adding privacy will only requiere a very small fee. Read below because what we have to show you is amazing.

First, we need to understand the issue, Raiblocks uses DPOS (delegated proof of stake), hence having complete privacy would hide users’ balances and break the whole DPOS system. The idea is to have two wallets: one public and one private.
So, you are wondering: If  I have the choice, I could put all my Azulik in the private wallet and the DPOS wouldn’t work anymore .

Yes, you are right and that’s why we need an intencive to make people stay in the public wallet and participate in the DPOS. All the fees collected through private transactions will be sent back to the user depending on their Azulik balance.

It means that keeping your Azulik in your public wallet, even if you don’t do transactions, will return you a percentage of the daily fees spent on the private network. One percent of the transaction fees will be split between the nodes, hence you will get paid to run the node. The other 99% will be redistributed to the network. Assuming that the portfolio weight is distributed like a Gaussian law and that the number of transactions is  equal or higher to the number of  users, we can say that, on average, you’ll get 99% of your fees back. 

So even if the fee is very low (and probably dynamic depending on the number of nodes on the network), you’ll get back a lot of the fees you pay for you private transactions. Remember, it’s  still free and instant to send or receive Azulik with your public wallet.



https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2018/03/7/1516527377-azulikproject.jpg


The main upside is that we will have a natural anti-spam protocol for private transactions, hence we can remove the POW to sending or receiving. It also means that it will make transactions even faster so they can be used in the mobile wallet.

Let’s take an example: You reveive your salary in your public wallet, then you send a part of your salary to your private wallet that you call Shopping Wallet.

Usually with Raiblocks, when you pay for a coffee, the bar can check your balance, where the money came from, and so on. Here, you can use you private wallet to pay and nothing will appear. Your transaction will be shown on the public wallet, but there is no link between the public and private wallet so it’s impossible to know who owns any given public wallet.

We believe this is the most elegant way to apply privacy on a DAG DPOS protocol
Do not hesitate to ask all the questions or concerns you may have, we would be happy to provide further details.


To summarise:

- We have designed and tested our privacy protocol
- Azulik will be more decentralized than Raiblocks
- It will be as fast as raiblocks for both private and public transactions
- Engage loyal users with daily rewards
- Very small fee for private transactions
- On average: private transactions are almost free

What next:

Here, you have everything you need to understand Azulik. We know you want a proper whitepaper and to see some code.

We can say that we will be able to deliver a proper whitepaper in about a month. Regarding the code, we will have to find a secure way to show you. As you know, there are other projects aiming to do the same thing and, in months, they proposed/delivered nothing new besides "We will merge Zk-Snarks and Raiblocks.” We like open source projects but we don't want our hard work to be stolen. So, in a bit of time, I think we will have a clearer picture about these two other projects and we will be able to deliver code. However, on our side, we will start implementing Azulik. To be honest, we can't expect the first test to be done before two or three months.

First of all, thank you for all of your messages. They are really documented and very interesting. We will give further details below:


Here are the main results of our simulations. We will try to keep it clear and easy for everyone. Please feel free to ask for further details. The idea here is to test three approaches: ZK-Snarks, recursive-ZK-Snakrs (linearisation), and WPI.

As a benchmark, we used a simple DAG. We then simulated transactions/nodes and calculated the time needed.

https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2018/03/6/1516471445-finalresultsazulik.jpg

On the left, you can see that (among the three approaches) one allows to have transaction time really close to the simple DAG (without privacy). We can confirm these results with the figure on the right where we plotted the difference against the benchmark.


So, here we are, we have selected the Privacy protocol we will apply. We still have some analysis to do, but we are very confident with this approach.

Azulik will be the first Freemium cryptocurrency.
You’ll be able to realise instant, fee-less transactions, and adding privacy will only requiere a very small fee. Read below because what we have to show you is amazing.

First, we need to understand the issue, Raiblocks uses DPOS (delegated proof of stake), hence having complete privacy would hide users’ balances and break the whole DPOS system. The idea is to have two wallets: one public and one private.
So, you are wondering: If  I have the choice, I could put all my Azulik in the private wallet and the DPOS wouldn’t work anymore .

Yes, you are right and that’s why we need an intencive to make people stay in the public wallet and participate in the DPOS. All the fees collected through private transactions will be sent back to the user depending on their Azulik balance.

It means that keeping your Azulik in your public wallet, even if you don’t do transactions, will return you a percentage of the daily fees spent on the private network. One percent of the transaction fees will be split between the nodes, hence you will get paid to run the node. The other 99% will be redistributed to the network. Assuming that the portfolio weight is distributed like a Gaussian law and that the number of transactions is  equal or higher to the number of  users, we can say that, on average, you’ll get 99% of your fees back. 

So even if the fee is very low (and probably dynamic depending on the number of nodes on the network), you’ll get back a lot of the fees you pay for you private transactions. Remember, it’s  still free and instant to send or receive Azulik with your public wallet.



https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2018/03/7/1516527377-azulikproject.jpg


The main upside is that we will have a natural anti-spam protocol for private transactions, hence we can remove the POW to sending or receiving. It also means that it will make transactions even faster so they can be used in the mobile wallet.

Let’s take an example: You reveive your salary in your public wallet, then you send a part of your salary to your private wallet that you call Shopping Wallet.

Usually with Raiblocks, when you pay for a coffee, the bar can check your balance, where the money came from, and so on. Here, you can use you private wallet to pay and nothing will appear. Your transaction will be shown on the public wallet, but there is no link between the public and private wallet so it’s impossible to know who owns any given public wallet.

We believe this is the most elegant way to apply privacy on a DAG DPOS protocol
Do not hesitate to ask all the questions or concerns you may have, we would be happy to provide further details.


To summarise:

- We have designed and tested our privacy protocol
- Azulik will be more decentralized than Raiblocks
- It will be as fast as raiblocks for both private and public transactions
- Engage loyal users with daily rewards
- Very small fee for private transactions
- On average: private transactions are almost free

What next:

Here, you have everything you need to understand Azulik. We know you want a proper whitepaper and to see some code.

We can say that we will be able to deliver a proper whitepaper in about a month. Regarding the code, we will have to find a secure way to show you. As you know, there are other projects aiming to do the same thing and, in months, they proposed/delivered nothing new besides "We will merge Zk-Snarks and Raiblocks.” We like open source projects but we don't want our hard work to be stolen. So, in a bit of time, I think we will have a clearer picture about these two other projects and we will be able to deliver code. However, on our side, we will start implementing Azulik. To be honest, we can't expect the first test to be done before two or three months.

You're starting to show nice results !
Even if it's optionnal Privacy, the way you seems to find can really work.
I'll be able to help for the French translation, when you will need ;)

First of all, thank you for all of your messages. They are really documented and very interesting. We will give further details below:


Here are the main results of our simulations. We will try to keep it clear and easy for everyone. Please feel free to ask for further details. The idea here is to test three approaches: ZK-Snarks, recursive-ZK-Snakrs (linearisation), and WPI.

As a benchmark, we used a simple DAG. We then simulated transactions/nodes and calculated the time needed.

https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2018/03/6/1516471445-finalresultsazulik.jpg

On the left, you can see that (among the three approaches) one allows to have transaction time really close to the simple DAG (without privacy). We can confirm these results with the figure on the right where we plotted the difference against the benchmark.


So, here we are, we have selected the Privacy protocol we will apply. We still have some analysis to do, but we are very confident with this approach.

Azulik will be the first Freemium cryptocurrency.
You’ll be able to realise instant, fee-less transactions, and adding privacy will only requiere a very small fee. Read below because what we have to show you is amazing.

First, we need to understand the issue, Raiblocks uses DPOS (delegated proof of stake), hence having complete privacy would hide users’ balances and break the whole DPOS system. The idea is to have two wallets: one public and one private.
So, you are wondering: If  I have the choice, I could put all my Azulik in the private wallet and the DPOS wouldn’t work anymore .

Yes, you are right and that’s why we need an intencive to make people stay in the public wallet and participate in the DPOS. All the fees collected through private transactions will be sent back to the user depending on their Azulik balance.

It means that keeping your Azulik in your public wallet, even if you don’t do transactions, will return you a percentage of the daily fees spent on the private network. One percent of the transaction fees will be split between the nodes, hence you will get paid to run the node. The other 99% will be redistributed to the network. Assuming that the portfolio weight is distributed like a Gaussian law and that the number of transactions is  equal or higher to the number of  users, we can say that, on average, you’ll get 99% of your fees back. 

So even if the fee is very low (and probably dynamic depending on the number of nodes on the network), you’ll get back a lot of the fees you pay for you private transactions. Remember, it’s  still free and instant to send or receive Azulik with your public wallet.



https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2018/03/7/1516527377-azulikproject.jpg


The main upside is that we will have a natural anti-spam protocol for private transactions, hence we can remove the POW to sending or receiving. It also means that it will make transactions even faster so they can be used in the mobile wallet.

Let’s take an example: You reveive your salary in your public wallet, then you send a part of your salary to your private wallet that you call Shopping Wallet.

Usually with Raiblocks, when you pay for a coffee, the bar can check your balance, where the money came from, and so on. Here, you can use you private wallet to pay and nothing will appear. Your transaction will be shown on the public wallet, but there is no link between the public and private wallet so it’s impossible to know who owns any given public wallet.

We believe this is the most elegant way to apply privacy on a DAG DPOS protocol
Do not hesitate to ask all the questions or concerns you may have, we would be happy to provide further details.


To summarise:

- We have designed and tested our privacy protocol
- Azulik will be more decentralized than Raiblocks
- It will be as fast as raiblocks for both private and public transactions
- Engage loyal users with daily rewards
- Very small fee for private transactions
- On average: private transactions are almost free

What next:

Here, you have everything you need to understand Azulik. We know you want a proper whitepaper and to see some code.

We can say that we will be able to deliver a proper whitepaper in about a month. Regarding the code, we will have to find a secure way to show you. As you know, there are other projects aiming to do the same thing and, in months, they proposed/delivered nothing new besides "We will merge Zk-Snarks and Raiblocks.” We like open source projects but we don't want our hard work to be stolen. So, in a bit of time, I think we will have a clearer picture about these two other projects and we will be able to deliver code. However, on our side, we will start implementing Azulik. To be honest, we can't expect the first test to be done before two or three months.

I almost fell for Stone, watching Manta closely, and adding Azulik to the list.

Wanted to write why i think byteballs black bytes are not the best way to implement this:
1. It's peer to peer and not stored on the graph, and needs to be exchanged later.
2. To keep them 'yours', you need to either back them up or use multisig wallet to keep them synced.

Neither is ideal.

In one of the messages you mentioned 1. instant transactions OR privacy.

Privacy must be default - this is monero's approach. I concur. IN the end state, if cryptos become the default way of doing payments, not many people will enable privacy, and those that will will be under scrutiny.

Zcash does zkSNARKS but your claim is it's not easy to apply it to DAG (i am not sure, didn't think deeply, and haven't yet read the paper fully). With Zcash there are t- and z- wallets, which are kind of interesting to work with. Didn't look ideal after getting used to monero.

You mentioned privacy would reduce throughput and increae transaction time significantly, by how much?


As for practical aspects:
1. Do you expect to implement light node/wallet (this is on raiblock list) so some reuse may happen.
2. Even with zkSNARKS/etc there's still risk of leaking IP. Monero will be using Kovri for this (and they have explanation why TOR wont work), will you add this to your roadmap?
3. Distribution is still not clear, I Want to get some, either through whatever mechanism is used or through donation - can you make donation percentage allocation clear at some point soon?

Also:
How can I help? I am a SWE in one of the FANG companies with good opensource experience. I find less and less free time after working on my side project, but this looks sufficiently interesting to pause them.

Diassapointed, for sure.

On the other hand, that's one hell of a report. Where can I buy Airforce Research Labratory Coin?

Azulik people, can you please comment on this?

This patchset adds a new message type "bulk_pull_blocks" (0x09) which allows one to request from a
node a range of blocks (min_hash to max_hash). Alternatively, the checksum for a range of blocks can
be requested to determine if it is likely that there are new blocks in that range that need to be pulled.

Further, a limited number of blocks can be requested by specifying a non-zero "max_count" argument.

The advantage over the existing bulk_pull (I assume you meant bulk_pull, and not block_pull ?) is that bulk_pull accepts an account as a start and a block as an end, so to use it to synchronize the bootstrap database requires a lot of request-reply cycles, especially for accounts that have few transactions. bulk_pull_blocks accepts a range of blocks, so you can pull in just a set of blocks, alternatively requesting a checksum before doing the transfer to see if the transfer is likely to be needed. This mechanism brings a full sync down to under 5 minutes

Hello,
First of all our whitepaper is not currently up to date and will be updated and finished in the coming weeks.
We mentioned that we have several candidate for the privacy protocol and yes one of them is a military protocol used by the US air force and declassified less than 10 years ago.

We have tested these approaches and exposed the results, we believe it would be more interesting to discuss these results as well as our global way to handle privacy as described here:

https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2018/03/7/1516527377-azulikproject.jpg

We have updated all our results, and the front page.

Thanks for all your donations, we continue the hard work for all the weekend.

Currently we haven't really dig the distribution process, it's not the top priority as of today. We have to define the supply, the part given to the contributors, the team and through faucet.

It should look like that:

A very nice project, so I am following it.

1. I have just checked your monero address in the explorer. Could you check if it is correct.
2. Please enable the pm for the newbies, so that I can send you email about my support, most probably in raiblocks.

Regarding our monero adress it should work, be aware that copy-pasting the adress add a space, you can check it in word for example.

Regarding the pm you should be able to contact us.

You mean, the space in the middle? I've kept, still to no success. Any chance you can put a link to the monero explorer, including the address?



I've checked the option to receive pms from newbies, and so have been able to send one to you.

Hmmm...I looked at the Aidos Kuneen website http://www.aidoskuneen.com/.  No whitepaper, no link to a github. They don't give any real technical information.  They only said that it is based on a DAG and the sender has to verify two other transactions, so it sounds like something similar to IOTA's tangle  The only 'exchange' is something they run themselves apparently (https://aidosmarket.com) and there appears to be zero liquidity.  Looks highly sketchy to me.

so, basically it's the second MANTA?
dev didn't reveals who they are? and project is somewhat same concept.

We sent you all the information thought PM.

Front page updated, thank you.

Many of you complain about the name Azulik.

What do you guys think about "Titan" ? Sound short, and strong enough for an anonymous cryptocurrency.

Front page updated, thank you.

Many of you complain about the name Azulik.

What do you guys think about "Titan" ? Sound short, and strong enough for an anonymous cryptocurrency.

will there be a testnet open for donators ?

You proposed very interesting names, they all have an history or a real meaning, all short, so who choose in the end, shall we organize a survey ?  



Yes Donators will be added to the testnet in priority and other selected peoples.

As you understand the Testnet isn't for tomorow.

We expect to publish the github at the same time as the whitepaper, end of FEB- Beginning of MAR.

Front page updated, thank you.

Many of you complain about the name Azulik.

What do you guys think about "Titan" ? Sound short, and strong enough for an anonymous cryptocurrency.

Titan will create silly jokes like "going full Titanic", "same fate as the titanic", etc.
I think it would be good to incorporate "privacy" and "DAG" somehow.
Another idea I have is PHASMA, sounds cool and is Latin for ghost, links to privacy but less to DAG, though.

Hi,
When WIP is used, is it the case that it does not guarantee complete privacy in the strictest sense, as the proof or set of proofs is public? Correct me if i am wrong.
As i understand the WIP approach is a compromise between {no privacy but very fast transactions} and {complete privacy using a true zero knowledge protocol but slower transactions}.

Hello, that is very interresting questions:

1- Light node/wallet will be our top priority, a new version of the synch system has recently been proposed on Github :


We think it will really help to make very efficient light wallet and we will apply the bulk_pull.

2- It's not currently in our roadmap, for us the privacy is something very important for mass adoption. The main priority is to hide wallet balance and transaction if we want people to use Azulik in the real life. What you mentioned could be added in the future but isn't currently our priority.

3- We have updated the first page which should be more clear now about the distribution.

Regarding the help you offer, it's very interesting thank you for that we will discuss together and contact you through private message to check with you.

Are you planning on revealing yourself? Experience? Previous Projects? What university did you attended to? Gifttub? Give us more info and more people might donate.  

Hi Azulik,
can you answer this question please?

+1 on the titanic thing, that is also the first thing that came to my mind

You proposed very interesting names, they all have an history or a real meaning, all short, so who choose in the end, shall we organize a survey ?  



Yes Donators will be added to the testnet in priority and other selected peoples.

As you understand the Testnet isn't for tomorow.

We expect to publish the github at the same time as the whitepaper, end of FEB- Beginning of MAR.

Devs of Azulik can prove their legitimity, it's up only to them! I would like to hear much more details about their visions. It's really sad that in those days people are disappointed. On the other hand, we can't be surprised! Hope that Azulik tries to different approach. I still waiting on your answer via PM Azulik team!

Is this a scam or serious project? The other similar projects get way more attetion

Who knows, we will have to wait if team bring what they promised. Now Azulik project seems to me more legit than others such as Manta, Stone, Dagger and others, but as I said at the beginning, in this early stage is always risky trust all what devs write and if you are considering to become early adopters you should invest very small amount and once Azulik team delivers more, than you can add more into your stack

Are you still accepting donations?

i'd like to mine this. will it release soon for mining? the distribution is via faucet . was it released ?

Projects like this will turn out to be a Gem if Dev is serious about the project. Hoping to see source code soon. As well as the final Whitepaper.

Railblocks is one of the great project out there and adding privacy to its feature is really upping the game. Hope to see more of this project.

Dev, why you dont do azulik erc-20 tokens for donators? Manta dev did it. After release wallet we will change tokens for coins.

Our work on the privacy protocol is now accomplished, it passed all our testing plan. The two last weeks have been very busy for us but the results worth it. 
It allows very fast transaction, almost as fast as a DAG without privacy and much faster than a simple ZK-SNARKs.

We will now merge it with this representation:

https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2018/03/7/1516527377-azulikproject.jpg

And let you know each steps of the project, we are very enthusiast with these results.


Here’s what’s next:

• Finishing a proper whitepaper and public release of the Github the 16th of March
• End of donation the 16th of March
• Wallet development
• Testnet open the first week of april
• Official launch in the beginning of May

In the coming month we will hire people for the team especially to help our new team member with the community management, the marketing of Azulik and exchange listing, feel free to PM.

Is this a joke?
Releasing whitepaper : 16 March
End of donations: 16 March

Dev, why you dont do azulik erc-20 tokens for donators? Manta dev did it. After release wallet we will change tokens for coins.

Is this a joke?
Releasing whitepaper : 16 March
End of donations: 16 March

Maybe because this is the third time someone highlight this point and they already replied to this question.

You don't need to spam the topic knowing that you accuse them to be a scam because they deleted your question, which is the same as the one on the top of this page that no one can miss and also on the previous page.


 It's not because you aren't happy with their reply that it's a scam ... I'm pretty happy with their reply which for me means expected end of donation the 16th, as they will get tons of donation (and hit their target) the day the whitepaper and the code are released meaning they are confident with their work.

Really i would prefer someone to challenge them technically speaking, it's public they show it, is it feasible ? i have no idea, i'm not computer science guy, but this is the first time i see something like that so i'm curious, and as far as i understand it's a very strong approach.

In the end stop the FUD and if you think it's not legit explain exactly why it can't be done as they said. I like the project it looks legit but of course i can't be 100% sure however it's fine for me they clean up the FUD as long as someone before you raised the same question.

You just seem like a paid chill, or an alt.

Hello! There is a wish to bring donation on development of the project in ETH! After introduction of donation on your purse ETH to me what that will need to be told you?
Thanks!

Your question isn't really clear could you please send us a PM and allow newbie to contact you, profile -> Personnal message option and tick Allow newbies to send you PMs.

So devs....I have a dumb question. First I will apologize for not understanding the mechanics of how you will get coins to the donators. Do I have to send you the txn id if I donate? How are you going to know that I donated and how do you get any distribution of coins to donators?

I have been waiting for someone to come up with a coin exactly as you are describing so I am very intrigued by your project. I know this is also a long shot, but if you two are in the SF Bay area, I might even be able to additionally donate some office space for you to use free of charge.

Currently we haven't really dig the distribution process, it's not the top priority as of today. We have to define the supply, the part given to the contributors, the team and through faucet.

It should look like that:

As much as I'd like to be optimistic about this project, it feels like a scam to me.
WISP was a recent coin aiming to do the exact same - Raiblocks + Privacy and as of yesterday they did an exact scam. It's true the developers have not touched any of the donations as of today but there's hardly anything in them and that doesn't mean they won't
WISP - They too were looking for donations before releasing anything of substance to the community. They exit scammed 2 days before the release of their 'simple whitepaper'.
If this were truly a project in the spirit of XRB (now Nano) and Colin, he certainly did not go about it in this manner, yo can even check the old threads.
I want to be a believer in this project but I certainly won't be donating until I see more substance but when I do I will for sure buy into an ICO or whatever
Just my $0.02

No it's not a joke at all, people making donation right now are aware they take risks, once we release the code and the whitepaper, everybody will see how clean is our work and how efficient is our approach for privacy we will get a wave of donation.

It will be a huge decrease of the risks taken by donator, hence it wouldn’t be fair for people having donate before, that some people get the same reward with lower risk. Hence we decided to stop this form of donation at the end of day of our announcement, so we expect to get our target donation in few hours and hence end the donation the 16th of march end of day.

If you think it would be more legit to not give deadline it's your right, however we think it's important to keep the community up to date.

How to attract the community for your project
1 - Faucet distribution can create an activi community, no donation, similiar to Railblocks project, only voluntary donations.
2 - Website
3 - Reveal your identity
4 - Github
5 - Linkedin
6 - Code
7 - Whitepaper
8 - Show the progress
9 - Telegram, Discord
10 - Voilá

I agree. I see three DAG projects announced with fast lightning network, feeless and adding privacy based on Raiblocks Success. Hope someone succeed doing this. I been working since 6 months on one product myself but never thought of going in forums and asking for money until you have something to show in hand "Working Product".

If you are working on something and it seems promising, perhaps you can engage others in the community and see what two heads can come up with. Collaboration could really help. :)

If you are working on something and it seems promising, perhaps you can engage others in the community and see what two heads can come up with. Collaboration could really help. :)

How to attract the community for your project
1 - Faucet distribution can create an activi community, no donation, similiar to Railblocks project, only voluntary donations.
2 - Website
3 - Reveal your identity
4 - Github
5 - Linkedin
6 - Code
7 - Whitepaper
8 - Show the progress
9 - Telegram, Discord
10 - Voilá

Any news Azulik? There's a silence for a week, i think that one important thing is communicate, hope i will hear about you soon

How to attract the community for your project
1 - Faucet distribution can create an activi community, no donation, similiar to Railblocks project, only voluntary donations.
2 - Website
3 - Reveal your identity
4 - Github
5 - Linkedin
6 - Code
7 - Whitepaper
8 - Show the progress
9 - Telegram, Discord
10 - Voilá

Perfectly put! It doesn't look like the Devs have posted anything since Jan 30th. Has anyone received a PM from them since then? Odd that they seem to have gone awol as I really liked the concept they presented.

Dev,

Could you at least tell us some general information about yourselves - what kind of company is it (tech, software, etc?), what country are you guys from?

No it's not a joke at all, people making donation right now are aware they take risks, once we release the code and the whitepaper, everybody will see how clean is our work and how efficient is our approach for privacy we will get a wave of donation.

It will be a huge decrease of the risks taken by donator, hence it wouldn’t be fair for people having donate before, that some people get the same reward with lower risk. Hence we decided to stop this form of donation at the end of day of our announcement, so we expect to get our target donation in few hours and hence end the donation the 16th of march end of day.

If you think it would be more legit to not give deadline it's your right, however we think it's important to keep the community up to date.

Ok to counter that, If your project need more donation. Why not do like those who put blind bet before 16th Mar have more risk, so they will get extra for their risk, like lets say they will get 1.5 coins per $1.
And those who invest afteer 16th march will get 1 coin for $1.

In this way you will have enough donation and more support and your early risk takers will get rewarded.
I do not see any problem in this approach and it will clear all doubts.

Also, can you prove someway that those linkedIn accounts are authentic or can we reach out to those accounts and confirm if they are aware that they are part of this project.
Or should we ask our friends in those companies to check if those guys exist and doing this project?
Any merits appreciated!

I like what you're aiming for so keen to get involved. Have sent a PM to discuss some points, but had some time this morning so knocked up what I think would be a more fitting brand.

http://i66.tinypic.com/2550ub9.png

Further to previous design here are some more concepts for the icon itself. See below for the general idea of how A is combined with Z.

We have updated the front page, nice to see all your support we are well aware we have to deliver very clean work as we all believe here that XRB with privacy will be the coin of the year.

Exactly, if you delivered clean work in the middle March i guess your $150 000 goal will be reached very soon after that. Then we can focus on promotion and spreading wird about your project, good luck!

Just sent you guys a very small donation. Please confirm you received it and I will then send the full donation I am committed to

Txn ID 0x73232559b4596488cffe8c3c56aa9ef25ca989496b87643c187399fd7d4c7ab1

Don't worry dude that is what crypto is all about. I am not much bigger just a sent a sliver more than you, don't fret about the $. We all here to see decentralized coins integrated into the economy 8)

TXID for me: 0x502a1fb70f6a8a1c70cae49dae7fa4f7721c03789ed2bded2dfc5add164c1584

Look forward to seeing this project come to fruition dev :)

The list of donators is updated.
We should very soon have a website, thanks to all of you, what a great community.

We have updated the front page, nice to see all your support we are well aware we have to deliver very clean work as we all believe here that XRB with privacy will be the coin of the year.

Azulik devs, I'm rooting for you. Make it happen! :)
Don't be like Manta who have done an exit scam already

so manta is a confirmed scam? and the others not (yet)?

For now, Manta is probably confirmed scam. Others, we don't know yet.

For now, Manta is probably confirmed scam. Others, we don't know yet.

Our point is that what Manta and Stone say they will do isn't feasible.

Their way to see things is too simple, and i have never seen one of them address the DPOS with privacy issue, nor being challenged with their approach. Feel free to ask as many technical questions as you want for Azulik, we are very comfortable with our protocol.

Our point is that what Manta and Stone say they will do isn't feasible.

Their way to see things is too simple, and i have never seen one of them address the DPOS with privacy issue, nor being challenged with their approach. Feel free to ask as many technical questions as you want for Azulik, we are very comfortable with our protocol.

What additional details/update do you have for the community regarding your WIP approach?

I would like to ask about hash based signature XMSS, if you were considering pros and cons to add XMSS to the Azulik code and to provide your explanation

As you can see on the image below we actually didn't chose the WIP approach, we used a recursive-ZK-Snakrs  which is basically a linearisation of the ZK-Snakrs  making it much faster, however it require more computation power but our simulations and testes revealed that it's actually widely feasible.
 
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2018/03/6/1516471445-finalresultsazulik.jpg


For the hash used, we will stay with Blake2, after reading JP Aumasson books it would convince everyone that it's currently one of the most efficient hash function. For Azulik the hash algorithm isn't used for proof of work and the hash chosen doesn't really bring upside whereas using hash based signature XMSS  would bring complexity and probably instability. (To be honest we aren't very familiar with XMSS).

Image does not show anything useful at all and certainly does not show that you:

didn't chose the WIP approach, we used a recursive-ZK-Snakrs

There is an unspecified baseline and Approach 1 2 and 3 which are also completely unspecified. It is basically useless, lets be honest.

Perhaps you could indicate what each of the approaches and the baseline are. That would make it actually useful.

Here are the main results of our simulations. We will try to keep it clear and easy for everyone. Please feel free to ask for further details. The idea here is to test three approaches: ZK-Snarks (3), recursive-ZK-Snakrs (2) (linearisation), and WPI (1).

You are right indeed, it's just that the image is well know from our community as it's on the front page:


We should have provided more details, thank you for asking.

Very nice the linearisation is pretty obvious on your picture.
Can you give us more details how you handle DPOS and privacy, i mean if i go there:

https://raiblocks.net/page/representatives.php

I can see that the first representative has 21 millions coins, and it should even be possible to check all the people who delegate to this representative and check their balance. If you hide balance how DPOS will work ?

Thanks for the clarification.

So WPI is faster but I'm assuming you went with recursive zkSnarks because it is not too much slower and I'm guessing it has other advantages over WPI? Perhaps easier to implement?

Is it possible to add XRP (Ripple) to donation list? A lot of people has XRP and transfer is really cheap. And I would like to add that the site preview looks promising :)

You have two different logos on the first page. You should stick with one.

What's the total number of coins?

I think I read somewhere that it is 666 million. Not sure why the devilish number but easy to remember I guess.

Yes indeed it's 666 millions i guess because it's 5 times the Nano (XRB) supply, and i read they wanted an higher supply.

do you guys think 666 million is enough? I think I remember seeing that the devs want this to be used by everyone, for everything. If you think about how many USD, EUR, GBP, CNY, and JPY, not to mention all the other currencies of the world in in the world (The lastest M2 of USD is 18.5 trillion) the supply should be higher....otherwise the value of each Azulik coin will be very high. Not sure that matters or not unless you want the value in terms of other fiat currencies is reflects a number that is manageable. No one wants to pay for a coffee or taxi using 0.0001247 (or whatever) coins. Maybe this is a bridge to cross in the future. Would love to hear what some of the more seasoned crypto users think.

Exactly our thought, in another hand we have to think about the distribution. How to distribute many coins through faucet ? It's not easy, if we find an optimal way to distribute hence we will increase the supply.

No you want a currency which is easy to use on daily basis, and of course you don't want to match the M2 supply but you don't want neither to have to pay for a coffee 0.000000000125 Azulik. People would be confused, it's much easier to pay 2 Azulik for example. It's just the human brain which is like that. On top of that newbie investor like cheap coin in nominal as they believe it double easier (which is silly we agree).

I think the total of coins is good. If one person donate 1 ltc and today 1 ltc value is X and in 03/16 is Y the coins to distribute will be by donate X or Y ?

It's a good question we should make it clear it will be max(X,Y).

Earlier you said:

It will be valued at the rate of the day we stop the donation.

Can you confirm that this is indeed a change and you will allocate coins based on the max value of either the day the donation was made or the day the donations closed?

So if I donated 100 coins and they are worth $100 the day I donate them and then on the day that donations close the coins are worth $50 I will still get $100 worth of coins? Similarly, if the coins are worth $200 on the day donations close then I will get $200 worth of coins?

Thanks

1. Could you provide any update on the tech, your research, any detail?
2. The number of coins, 666, did you make it on purpose to be like that? You may know that to some people it is, so to say, unpleasant association.
3. The testnet on the April 1st? Do you say it with the grain of resposibility? So, you are basically preparing now the testnet for the launch?

All of that is planed, especially the Code and Whitepaper soon. Once it's released, we believe there will be no doubt that our work is more than legit.


We replied to you, as we mentioned we use more our topic to make announcement, it's probably not the best way to do, but we think that the code will speaks for itself, so it's currently our top priority.


Sure we met at the university where we graduated with a computational science and engineering master. Alex did a PHD in data analysis and machine learning while i started to work for financial company specialized in telecommunication and high frequency trading. Then we got an opportunity in a well known tech company. Alex is from India and has the American nationality and i'm from Germany and we both left the US after our study to work in europe.

The protocol is explained at high level in the front page, we are done with the research part, and we are currently working on the implementation itself, we haven't faced any particular difficulty as of now, it's on going and we do our best to be on time.
The number 666 is basically 5 times the Nano supply, yes it may be unpleasant for some people, but we are sure it's less obvious if we say the supply will be: 666,241,445 Azulik.
We will do our best to have the testnet ready asap, our main work is currently on the code as we want everything to be working on our side to share it with you by the 16th of march. It's a very short deadline, and we do our best, we work almost every evening and every weekends on it.

Does anyone have a good understanding of the benefits / drawbacks of DAG based systems v all the hype going on around HashGraph? Other than the fact that the hashgraph is controlled by an private entitiy (which in itself makes it a non starter for me). Specifically from a scaleability, speed, or security perspective.

Guys, It's big scam around Dag technology with privacy add on coin posts between Stone, Manta, Azulik mostly all the threads might have started by same person or group. They all try to collect donations upfront before you see any code on Github, no Escrow and mentioning testnet release on same day as last day of donation ends. Nothing happen in other two projects.

It might be same team doing this thread also, i kind of see similar line of plans and just nice graphics, cut and paste info from different resources and trying to make quick money with no real proof of code or work. Beware of these scammers, I really donated little money in Stone and realized it's waste of doing until you see code and real product.

Why aren't the private transactions free aswell?

A very interesting question - thank you for bringing it to our attention.

Firstly, to understand it better we must delve into all that is represented by the Delegate Proof of Stake (DPOS). Simply put it is a protocol where all the users (owning coin) delegate their vote to a representative. The vote is then weighted by the balance of the wallet. In the end the representatives, which act like the minors to maintain the network, will validate the transaction whereas at least 51% of the network must validate a transaction for it to proceed. The 51% is determined using the entire portfolio of wallet balances.
Hence having a private wallet means that the balance will not  be displayed. The DPOS will therefore not function. To bypass this issue we have develloped a public wallet and an alias private wallet. The public wallet delegates his voting rights to a representative as the balance is public. Take into consideration we now have a public and a private wallet.

Let’s say there are no fees. It’s clear all users would prefer to enjoy the privacy feature and in turn keep their coin shares in the private wallet- yet this would lead to the issue of running the DPOS off track as the representative would no longer  be legitimate as they would represent a very small part of the network. Therefore the fees in place are an incentive to make people keep their coin in their public wallet and run node.

Furthermore, 1% of the fees will be used to remunerate the nodes, and 99% of the fees will be paid back to the network depending of their number of shares in coin. Hence, in average, if the number of transactions are higher than the number of user, each user will get back 99% of the fees paid. The 1% remaining will allow a more decentralized network for both public and private transactions. On top of that, public transactions remain free of charge, and the fee for private transactions will be very very low.

I'm not sure I understood fully but would it be possible to use a separate coin (like Gas is to Neo) but with very little or no value for the payments? Introducing a fee is always going to be unpopular I think but if the fee coin is really cheap and plentiful then maybe it won't matter. I'm thinking it should be like one ten thousandth of a cent or something like that.

Anyway thanks for answering the question. Hope all is going well with the coding, any updates are very welcome and reassuring.

To me it’s a very smart approach, indeed, if you don’t have fees all user would store their coin in the private wallet, hence Sybil attack would be much easier to perform.

I really see how to use it in daily life, I receive funds on my public wallet, they are public, but as long as it’s not possible to link me with these transaction it’s all good.

So basically on my mobile wallet I will have my public and private wallet, I can transfer immediately some funds from my public to my private wallet, and they become untraceable as nor the transaction nor the balance can be accessed right ?
Yes you are right.
And  let say I go buy a coffee, I use my private wallet to pay, I’ll pay a small fee, and in the end of the day I’ll get back fees depending of my balance on my public wallet ?
Yes you got it
Hence it means If I spend coin using my private wallet my fees will be paid back, if I don’t spend I’ll be remunerated to delegate my vote to a representative, to me it sound amazing as long as the fee is low.

It's like a freemium version of Nano, it's like XRB for public transaction, but if you want another feature it's possible but for a very small fee.

Are you still checking azulikproject@yandex.com email?

People here know this full well ad have decided to take the risk or not to take the risk. We will see what happens Maybe none, maybe 1 maybe all will happen but we just don't know for sure. We can wait and see, that is all. If you feel really strongly about it, then create a DAG coin with privacy yourself and publish code before taking donations. I'll back you all the way and I think you will have hundreds more backers.

It's just a warning to newbies who don't understand Crypt world yet? The Nano Developer worked for 2 years before release of product with no donations asked and distributed token thru Faucet, Bounty etc free to forum members. I am working on much bigger scope of coin than just DAG and privacy will announce once i get to stage where product is ready.

I still love to see Azulik project to succeed but not in collecting donations before they have something solid working product. I am against scamming people i hope you too?

Dear community be ready for the website very soon,
thank you for your trust and support.

No you want a currency which is easy to use on daily basis, and of course you don't want to match the M2 supply but you don't want neither to have to pay for a coffee 0.000000000125 Azulik. People would be confused, it's much easier to pay 2 Azulik for example. It's just the human brain which is like that. On top of that newbie investor like cheap coin in nominal as they believe it double easier (which is silly we agree).

I would be more than happy to clarify your query for you. In the interim, you are more than welcome to browse online to dig deeper into all that high frequency trading encompasses. Telecommunication is a key part of the HFT as milliseconds, which in retrospect translates to millions. Therefore, within this technology, fibers and microwaves are used to transfer information. Some companies are specialising solely in building infrastructures- which essentially consists of telecommunication- as a means to beat their competitor and do trades faster than anyone else. Call it as you will, but indeed it is still within the realm of telecommunication. With regards to the PHD inquiry, please check online yourself for further information, but in laments terms, the cause of big  data and machine learning clearly implies data analysis.

Sounds good, do you know RSJ? And would be fine if you answered me PMs (2-3 week old) i would like to know your opinion

I'm looking forward to seeing the website. It will be an indicator of legitimacy but what about testnet?
There hasn't been further mention of the faucet either. The timeline looks extremely optimistic if the project is indeed real
And finally, can the devs confirm that they moved a portion of the donations from the nano wallet. This would be contrary to their earlier statement

Dear community be ready for the website very soon,
thank you for your trust and support.

Why not use the Zerocoin protocol?

Why not use the Zerocoin protocol?

Is there any code available for review at this point?

So is this also going on the way of manta and stone, or do we have some real work here
these days, random dag projects just popped up, be careful guys.

Any word regarding today's withdrawal?

Any word regarding today's withdrawal?

Dev has been communicative, unlike with Manta and Stone. I believe we'll see some real progress here.

This looked very weird to me, until I realized that nanode is the one that's weird. It look like the devs have not opened their wallet up yet to receive the new send block, so nanode shows it as a pending send which is in red, but it will become a receive block which will show in the wallet as green. It's weird that nanode shows it as a pending send in red when it should be incoming as green. The website makes it look like the wallet is spending more than it has, but I guess asynchronous payments makes things a bit weird. 

Anyone out there have an opinion on which coin has the best GUI for a wallet?

Any update on testnet ? Has the donation period over or are you still accepting donations ?
I am interested to donate,if everything is going as planned and I if can see some code

I believe the devs will show their code at the same time they deliver the final white paper (March 16 is what they have said). A question for all of you out there that understand open source code as I don’t know the first thing about coding. If the devs post all of their code for everyone to see it couldn’t someone just copy it and create a clone coin?

I'm about to donate but there are two points which are a little worrisome to me.

1. There was another member who requested a statement from the developers regarding the copied parts of the dtic pdf, it seems that post got deleted, why?

2. Some funds of the nano donation address have been moved, I've read somewhere in the thread that it got moved because one of the donators want to stay private. This doesn't make sense to me, as everyone can check all incoming/outgoing transactions. Could you please elaborate?

p.s. just in case this post gets deleted, be sure that I'll definitely move this discussion to reddit if that happens.

that was me. i posted-- dev what say you? to the images i found in DAG FOMO discord
https://i.imgur.com/08FYbRI.png
https://imgur.com/a/efuoh
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2696095.msg28786249#msg28786249

I DM'd AZULIKproject here and explained the projected was great in theory, was excited, and if legit let me help spread the word before 3/16 date. Asked for more transparency and additional clarification/detail to share. I received the following DM responses in summary..

#1 we've already answered/responded to this...
That was it... based on my research the original concern was deleted and posted to a different thread by mistake or as a last resort. We still do not have clarity...

#2 if you want to help, dont spread fear and delete your post
So okay I thought, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, delete the post and see if I get info. I received the second DM above within 30 minutes of my re so I was hopeful. It has been 72 hours since and I have received no additional info.

The Nano dev team is aware of this Pre-Ann, as +B told me directly in Discord. The caution against any project in Pre-Ann requesting donations as they do not support this.

All that said, I'm reposting for the community to make their own decisions.

My take: Maybe it's a scam, maybe they're trying and it wont work, maybe they stumble onto something legit. Who knows.  

Bottom line: I'm hopeful, no FUD, no FOMO, just going to wait until 3/16 and see what happens. Time will sort everything out.

Vamos a ver que futuro tiene este proyecto, me gustaria que fuera real